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So the Dawn of War 2 Beta just came out and I was perusing the Relicnews forums when I found this gem:
Person1: "You do understand that Cover adds to micro as you have to actually think about where you place units and if you attack you have to consider flanking to negate that cover?"
Person2: "THAT IS MACRO. POSITIONING YOUR TROOPS, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MICRO. Are you really that stupid?"
Person1: "Positioning is the epitome of micromanagement. You just don't need to click umpteen billion times to do it."
Person2: "I bet any Korean with decent apm could be doing it with one hand and masturbating with other."
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=212538
The worst part is that I think Person2 actually watches the Starcraft pro-scene but it just too stupid to understand basic concepts. That or he's trolling. Either way I found it pretty hilarious in a sad kind of way.
 
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Katowice25012 Posts
Macro has a lot of really bizarre definitions in RTS games that aren't starcraft, DoW people tend to be the worst at explaining what they mean by it.
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The blizzard official forums aren't any better though~
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positioning isnt micro. Positioning is positioning.
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On January 24 2009 10:47 Divinek wrote:
positioning isnt micro. Positioning is positioning.
Positioning is unarguably a part of micro...
-_____-;;
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I can't imagine DOW being about strategy. It is about hard counters, armycompostion and capturing listeningposts. Add terraincover for flavour. It has hardly any depth. I tried it. How can this game be any more than random destruction and a bit of sqaud tactics.
p.s. Yes postioning is a part of micro unless the units are maneuvred in a void.
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dow has a fair bit of gameplay depth if you play it enough (you evidently don't), but the laughable balance is what kills it
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8748 Posts
i could imagine terminology where all tasks are separated between unit control and base management, both of which are then separated into micromanaging tasks and macromanaging tasks. unit position would be a macromanagement task of unit control
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On January 24 2009 13:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:
i could imagine terminology where all tasks are separated between unit control and base management, both of which are then separated into micromanaging tasks and macromanaging tasks. unit position would be a macromanagement task of unit control
Could you explain that a bit? I'm not sure I understand how you can have macro-management tasks within unit control. While the definition of macro is a bit fuzzy for me I've always considered anything regarding unit control to be micro.
Roughly, I'd consider macro to be stuff that influences your economy and unit production but I'm sure people could find exceptions to that.
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On January 24 2009 13:58 Phyre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2009 13:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:
i could imagine terminology where all tasks are separated between unit control and base management, both of which are then separated into micromanaging tasks and macromanaging tasks. unit position would be a macromanagement task of unit control Could you explain that a bit? I'm not sure I understand how you can have macro-management tasks within unit control. While the definition of macro is a bit fuzzy for me I've always considered anything regarding unit control to be micro. Roughly, I'd consider macro to be stuff that influences your economy and unit production but I'm sure people could find exceptions to that.
NonY's just looking at the literal meaning behind macro, rather than the accepted definition. Macro within an army would have to actions on a large scale, which would generally include moving of an army. However, positioning a lurker in a mineral line such that a cannon does not hit is more micro.
Really depends on the situation...
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On January 24 2009 12:07 PH wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2009 10:47 Divinek wrote:
positioning isnt micro. Positioning is positioning. Positioning is unarguably a part of micro... -_____-;;
It is quite arguable in fact. Because micro really only occurs during action between two players units really. Is there such a thing as pre battle micro? No there isnt.
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On January 24 2009 14:55 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2009 12:07 PH wrote:On January 24 2009 10:47 Divinek wrote:
positioning isnt micro. Positioning is positioning. Positioning is unarguably a part of micro... -_____-;; It is quite arguable in fact. Because micro really only occurs during action between two players units really. Is there such a thing as pre battle micro? No there isnt.
In Korea, they say "control" instead of "micro". Beyond that, the way I see it is that "micro" refers directly to how you control your units...their movement, positioning, what have you. Anything you do with a unit once it pops out of the factory, gateway, rax, whatever is all part of micro.
Just because what you do with a unit isn't immediately involved in a battle doesn't make it not "micro"/"control". Controlling units in a battle, and battles in general are only a small part of a game in the first place.
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On January 24 2009 14:55 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2009 12:07 PH wrote:On January 24 2009 10:47 Divinek wrote:
positioning isnt micro. Positioning is positioning. Positioning is unarguably a part of micro... -_____-;; It is quite arguable in fact. Because micro really only occurs during action between two players units really. Is there such a thing as pre battle micro? No there isnt.
yes there is
controlling units = micro
putting my units in formation is NOT macro
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United States47024 Posts
Reading the thread, its actually about the lack of micro in DoW2. From that standpoint, its a fair point. DoW2 is not really micro-heavy compared to other RTSs, especially Starcraft. Stuff like cover adds more complex micro, but the fact that you can only control squads and not units really reduces the total amount of micro you can do.
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On January 24 2009 15:20 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2009 14:55 Divinek wrote:On January 24 2009 12:07 PH wrote:On January 24 2009 10:47 Divinek wrote:
positioning isnt micro. Positioning is positioning. Positioning is unarguably a part of micro... -_____-;; It is quite arguable in fact. Because micro really only occurs during action between two players units really. Is there such a thing as pre battle micro? No there isnt. yes there is controlling units = micro putting my units in formation is NOT macro
Just because it's not macro doesnt make it micro. It's not like there's only one or the other. I mean you could want to look at it that way. But positioning doesn't very much seem like micro in any sense that the word is commonly used.
You never heard "look at that sick micro" when someone positions an army.
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On January 24 2009 17:32 Divinek wrote:
You never heard "look at that sick micro" when someone positions an army.
Boxer spread siege?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 24 2009 12:07 PH wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2009 10:47 Divinek wrote:
positioning isnt micro. Positioning is positioning. Positioning is unarguably a part of micro... -_____-;; ya, there are two kinds of micro imo
a) in-battle micro
b) pre-battle micro
or rather
a) Micro Techniques
b) The art of engagement
The art of engagement includes both positioning and picking the right place and time to fight
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On January 24 2009 14:13 BanZu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2009 13:58 Phyre wrote:On January 24 2009 13:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:
i could imagine terminology where all tasks are separated between unit control and base management, both of which are then separated into micromanaging tasks and macromanaging tasks. unit position would be a macromanagement task of unit control Could you explain that a bit? I'm not sure I understand how you can have macro-management tasks within unit control. While the definition of macro is a bit fuzzy for me I've always considered anything regarding unit control to be micro. Roughly, I'd consider macro to be stuff that influences your economy and unit production but I'm sure people could find exceptions to that. NonY's just looking at the literal meaning behind macro, rather than the accepted definition. Macro within an army would have to actions on a large scale, which would generally include moving of an army. However, positioning a lurker in a mineral line such that a cannon does not hit is more micro. Really depends on the situation...
You're right overall, except the first sentence, which should be
"NonY's just looking at the literal meaning behind macro, rather than the accepted among Starcraft players"
I haven't played dow2 but I would imagine for the game with very little base management breaking unit management into macro and micro would make a lot of sense
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EPT
