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On September 29 2008 14:16 brjdrb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2008 12:08 wswordsmen wrote:On September 29 2008 04:46 Nick_54 wrote:
5. Flash- Going 3-0 against the group of death in the OSL was really impressive. Those two games against Yarnc were not. Yes, Yarnc is good at zvt, but champions don't go out in the round of 32. Flash should be able to beat GGPlay, which will set up an interesting series vs Mind or Fantasy. Forgive me for being too much of a Flash fanboy, but: Ya real champs don't go out in the Ro32 they go out in the Offline prelims: Jaedong, Best (only mentioned because he is put higher than flash he didn't even win 1 game in the MSL) edit: to=/= too. I can't type this was too=/= too. stop focusing on stats. it doesn't matter what games you lose, just how u lose them. jaedong was beaten by han in good, close games. flash's games vs yarnc...were not good. flash is not as good as he was during the gsi / ever 2007 osl. especially not tvz and tvt. tvp is arguable. i can't comment on best's offline prelims b/c i don't remember them very well. my point: stop focusing on stats. they don't tell the whole story
I realized this thus the disclaimer (the first line)
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I totally agree with 4-10 on 3 Lions' ranking, well done.
A thing I don't understand is, why most people give that much credit to Jaedong. He won the WCG in a convincing manner, but he is not in the OSL and his MSL games were just embarrasing. He got owned 1,5 times by C/D class players, though he had enough time to practice (remember he didn't make it to the ro16 of the most important star league). Sure, they did rush him, but that doesn't matter at all. Jaedong beat players like Stork and Hwasin by 5-pooling them, though if you count those games as "real wins", you've to count the game vs. Frozean as a "real loss," too. And a well-timed bunker rush requires far more skill than a 5-pool.
Flash on the other hand 3-0'd the OSL group of death, by beating 3 top players. He lost to Yellow[Arnc] twice, which is not great at all, but can happen time after time. Fake Yellow is far better than Jaedong's group mates, he's accepted as an established player and top20.
So if Stork makes it out of his MSL group by winning 2 games in a row I won't see any reason for putting JD higher than #3.
Actually I vote for:
1./2. Stork/Flash (depending on Stork's MSL performance)
3. Jaedong
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You seem to forget that Jaedong kicks butt nonetheless and would own Stork (and probably Flash) any day. Stork's skill is inferior to Jaedong's.
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On September 30 2008 02:54 Polar_Bear wrote:
I totally agree with 4-10 on 3 Lions' ranking, well done.
A thing I don't understand is, why most people give that much credit to Jaedong. He won the WCG in a convincing manner, but he is not in the OSL and his MSL games were just embarrasing. He got owned 1,5 times by C/D class players, though he had enough time to practice (remember he didn't make it to the ro16 of the most important star league). Sure, they did rush him, but that doesn't matter at all. Jaedong beat players like Stork and Hwasin by 5-pooling them, though if you count those games as "real wins", you've to count the game vs. Frozean as a "real loss," too. And a well-timed bunker rush requires far more skill than a 5-pool.
Flash on the other hand 3-0'd the OSL group of death, by beating 3 top players. He lost to Yellow[Arnc] twice, which is not great at all, but can happen time after time. Fake Yellow is far better than Jaedong's group mates, he's accepted as an established player and top20.
So if Stork makes it out of his MSL group by winning 2 games in a row I won't see any reason for putting JD higher than #3.
Actually I vote for:
1./2. Stork/Flash (depending on Stork's MSL performance)
3. Jaedong
Jaedong is #1 mainly on the momentum he got from 3-0ing Flash in the GSL finals.
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On September 30 2008 02:54 Polar_Bear wrote:
Sure, they did rush him, but that doesn't matter at all. Jaedong beat players like Stork and Hwasin by 5-pooling them, though if you count those games as "real wins", you've to count the game vs. Frozean as a "real loss," too.
Jaedong could`ve won the game against stork/hwasin, even without cheese. He proved this.
Also frozean is not that dumb as u are saying. Sure he`s not extremely good but he`s OK, like fakeyellow.
Stork had a very good month. But in term of 'who`s better' JD > stork...and even more clear JD > Flash. 
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Valhalla18444 Posts
jaedong is still the best player on earth, if you disagree you are wrong
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yeah this is really good, i'd maybe flip flash and forgg but it's a tough call
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I don't suppose next month's PR will be on time, right? And is Fakesteve still AFKsteve? :D
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On September 29 2008 12:08 wswordsmen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2008 04:46 Nick_54 wrote:
5. Flash- Going 3-0 against the group of death in the OSL was really impressive. Those two games against Yarnc were not. Yes, Yarnc is good at zvt, but champions don't go out in the round of 32. Flash should be able to beat GGPlay, which will set up an interesting series vs Mind or Fantasy. Forgive me for being too much of a Flash fanboy, but: Ya real champs don't go out in the Ro32 they go out in the Offline prelims: Jaedong, Best (only mentioned because he is put higher than flash he didn't even win 1 game in the MSL) edit: to=/= too. I can't type this was too=/= too.
Hmmm Jaedong raped Flash 3 - 0 ?
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I think Nick_54's list was very well done, and I agree with 90% of it, down to the motivations even. Only spot I'm hesitant about would be 10, I would probably have Much there instead. Even though he went out of the OSL, he played some very strong games, and he seems as inform as much ever does.
Mind to me is a mystery, tbh. I actually deem him capable of beating everyone on the list in a series, something I can't even say about people that are on the list. But he is so very inconsistent. He can beat guys like Jaedong straight up in incredible games, and then lose to guys like Zero. It just shouldn't happen with a player of his potential, yet it does, again and again. But when his game-sense is ON, he is a threat to anyone, and a very entertaining player to boot.
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On September 30 2008 22:56 Fwmeh wrote:
I think Nick_54's list was very well done, and I agree with 90% of it, down to the motivations even. Only spot I'm hesitant about would be 10, I would probably have Much there instead. Even though he went out of the OSL, he played some very strong games, and he seems as inform as much ever does.
Mind to me is a mystery, tbh. I actually deem him capable of beating everyone on the list in a series, something I can't even say about people that are on the list. But he is so very inconsistent. He can beat guys like Jaedong straight up in incredible games, and then lose to guys like Zero. It just shouldn't happen with a player of his potential, yet it does, again and again. But when his game-sense is ON, he is a threat to anyone, and a very entertaining player to boot.
yeah me 2, just that i would`ve switched stork and forGG..although 3 lion's rank was good 2...only if he`d switched flash and forGG....
after reading this again...that would be the same rank for both of them ^^
all in all ... we have good ranks :D , let`s see what Steve has prepared for us
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On September 30 2008 02:54 Polar_Bear wrote:
I totally agree with 4-10 on 3 Lions' ranking, well done.
A thing I don't understand is, why most people give that much credit to Jaedong. He won the WCG in a convincing manner, but he is not in the OSL and his MSL games were just embarrasing. He got owned 1,5 times by C/D class players, though he had enough time to practice (remember he didn't make it to the ro16 of the most important star league). Sure, they did rush him, but that doesn't matter at all. Jaedong beat players like Stork and Hwasin by 5-pooling them, though if you count those games as "real wins", you've to count the game vs. Frozean as a "real loss," too. And a well-timed bunker rush requires far more skill than a 5-pool.
Flash on the other hand 3-0'd the OSL group of death, by beating 3 top players. He lost to Yellow[Arnc] twice, which is not great at all, but can happen time after time. Fake Yellow is far better than Jaedong's group mates, he's accepted as an established player and top20.
So if Stork makes it out of his MSL group by winning 2 games in a row I won't see any reason for putting JD higher than #3.
Actually I vote for:
1./2. Stork/Flash (depending on Stork's MSL performance)
3. Jaedong
Maybe you haven't been around TL long enough to know, but Jaedong has been dominating since 2007. You should click his profile and look at how many consecutive wins he earned right after he brought down Bisu from his short-lived domination.
He got 2nd place in last season's MSL and 1st place in this year's WCG. How were his MSL games just embarrasing? He was raping dominant players left and right. He lost the final match to a strong Terran teammate (who probably knew Jaedong's play style more than anyone else) in all Terran map pools. How is that getting dominated?
You should watch his games vs Stork and Hwasin again. He 4 pooled Hwasin in 1 game out of best out of 5. Whats wrong with including 1 cheese game with 2 other straight up dominating games? Terrans (cheesing race) do bunker rush/other cheese so much but they also complain when a zerg finally cheeses.
How does a bunker rush take far more skill than 5 pool? If Terran scouts it with his scv, all he has to do is pull few scv's to block the choke and the 5 pool fails.
Bunker rush, on the other hand, if the drones don't kill the marine, Zerg is screwed.
If drones stop the scv from building the bunker, the Terran just cancels the bunker and zerg loses mining time.
If Zerg cancels the 12 hatch, zerg is behind.
From how I see it, bunker rush is so much easier to pull off and works alot more often. So don't complain you, Terran imba scum.
Also, please look at the record games between Stork and Jaedong. Stork only beat him, beginning of 2007. Every BO5 or single games they had after that one game, Jaedong has won over Stork. So even if you take out the 5 pool win, Jaedong still dominates and rapes Stork in everyway possible.
Flash losing to Luxury is acceptable, but losing to Yarnc is not. Yarnc didnt even cheese him. Frozean cheesed Jaedong.
But I can understand your bias since you seem to be a Terran player from your icon and views.
But hey, if you disagree with my views, listen to a Starcraft veteran who watches tons of SC games and has been around longer than you:
On September 30 2008 10:55 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
jaedong is still the best player on earth, if you disagree you are wrong
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Does anybody else find it ironic that Stork's best power rank is #2?
All hail the King of Silver.
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How is that ironic? I expected it due to his performance.
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Will the games tomorrow be counted for Oktober's power rank ?
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Russian Federation4333 Posts
If HE does not make at least cnbc I'MA CHOKE A BITCH
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even HIM agreed that JD is #1 at the moment ... `nuff said!
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9069 Posts
asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On October 03 2008 05:06 disciple wrote:asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place
Jaedong isn't going to fade away
He's been at the top for so long, I don't understand why some people just can't see it. He has two golds and a silver in the last year or so, and he just won WCG Korea AND the first GOM classic. No one has been anywhere near Jaedong in terms of overall performance during this time.
How can you say he'll just "fade away in 2-3 months"? You don't know anything.
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Poll: When will this month's PR come out?
(Vote): 5th October
(Vote): 10th
(Vote): 15th
(Vote): 30th
(Vote): Probably sometime in November
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EPT
