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Close but no cigar:
Midas, he's been great lately but he's not done enough lately to make the rank. If he does well in the OSL he'll definately have a spot.
Ruby, he made the MSL after taking Kwanro and Calm, both skilled Zergs. If he does well in the MSL he might make the PR like Midas.
Thezerg, he's hot but not as established as the others on the list but if he keeps this up he has a sure spot on making it next time.
Edit: I'm silly, I forgot Thezerg he definately deserves mention^^.
Note: I'm just taking over for Steve this time so don't lynch me. The King will be back soon!
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I agree with all your decisions though your PR lacks personality, and it's shorter, which leaves me with a twinge of sadness, but your placement is awesome.
I'm glad to see Jaedong @ number 1 after so many months where that spot was snached right before the month ended.
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Good Power rank. Well done.
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I disagree with Stork being so high - but I'm pretty sure thats only because I don't like him. Good Job!
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Good power rank, thanks deadvessel 
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On September 15 2008 08:59 TarsTarkas wrote:
I disagree with Stork being so high - but I'm pretty sure thats only because I don't like him. Good Job!
Stork had an awesome August. He's got his work cut out for him this month, though. He lost to Sea in the all-star game and now faces him in both the MSL and OSL groups!
Thanks for taking on the Power Rank while FakeSteve gets things worked out!
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Best at #2. Seriously he didn't just get knocked out of the MSL he got knocked out first round (I hope I am right). There is a big difference between Jaedong who lost to han in the finals of his group, and Best who once again got KOed in the first round he played (he had a bye). And the guy didn't even win the group Nal_keke did, he didn't even qualify for the MSL..
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Stork! Very well deserved.
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Where's July? He couldn't have been doing badly enough to miss out on even the "close but no cigars". Could he?
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On September 15 2008 09:19 neobowman wrote:
Where's July? He couldn't have been doing badly enough to miss out on even the "close but no cigars". Could he?
He won against the Rock twice, Luxury once, and Jaehoon once. That shows he can win ZvP against B-level protoss, which accounted for about 80% of his matches in the OSL, meaning he has a lot of practice against protoss. He also lost twice against Luxury, once against Thezerg and once against Flash which means his other matchups are not so good. so that's why
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July's play has been dismal since his trouncing of BeSt. Beating Rock in a series ZvP does not warrant making PR or CBNC.
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United States42093 Posts
Backho!
BACKHO!!
BAAAACKHOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
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Bisu deserves CBNC at least I think for the win against Much and taking bo3 against Iris.
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Nice Power Rank, GJ DeadV.
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Looks good. I would put JulyZerg, Bisu and Backho somewhere near the bottom though, rather than those new guys.
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Ionno about fantacy or much but cant argue too much about it
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You said it like luxury losing a zvz to only person with better zvz in the world was all that much of a demerit to him.
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yay. thanks for the update.
however, i would like to point out that though luxury lost his best matchup (65% zvz), he played against jaedong (80% zvz)
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Boring PR
I have nothing to disagree with
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On September 15 2008 10:05 Divinek wrote:
You said it like luxury losing a zvz to only person with better zvz in the world was all that much of a demerit to him.
First, Jaedong.
Second, yes you are right, losing definitely isn't a demerit but should it come from the OSL Champion? No, it just shows that right now he has only one good (great) matchup.
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Great power rank, definitely less fanboyism comapred to FS. (joking, just joking)
Not sure if Best should have been raised up that high though...
I'm expecting Midas+Savior to show up on the PR soon...
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That's a lot of rough patches
Nice power rank btw
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leta goes undefeated and drops four spots?
that's my only complaint, great job getting the PR together
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
This is hardly accurate, as the major leagues will show. But august was a month of nothing so... not much you can really do i guess!
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Best is too high up. Since his OSL bashing, he's lost to Leta, played one game in the OSL against a washed up Zerg in GGplay, and he pounced on XvP noobs like FBH and Jangbi in the STX masters, but lost to Sea in the same event. I can't see how you justify his being "the best protoss around" and a +5 ranking boost when he hasn't done anything that separates him from the players he beat out. Yea he lost to Jaedong in the WCG but he beat an amateur and KWANRO to get to Jaedong. Stork and Much beat Forgg and Flash respectively in the WCG, Stork actually qualified. Luxury also qualified for the WCG, got -3 in the rankings, and while Best's loss to Jaedong is used in Best's favor, it's used against Luxury.
Stork has also won his last nine games if you don't count his WCG series against Jaedong, and he won those games in meaningful games, like MST and the OSL, and not freebies against XvP noobs in a meaningless invitational event.
Yes I don't like Best, but at least I have an argument.
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Go go Jaedong! Nice to see him in first place~
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best at 2....the...hell....
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stork and much > flash but kinda debatable really.
anyways i kinda dont like the repetitve use of "patch". just got to get that out. anyways,
ForGG should be lower in my opinion, since he only had such a few games you cant give him any higher of a rank (refer to your #10) so there are some contradictions
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On September 15 2008 10:29 ahole-surprise wrote:
Best is too high up. Since his OSL bashing, he's lost to Leta, played one game in the OSL against a washed up Zerg in GGplay, and he pounced on XvP noobs like FBH and Jangbi in the STX masters, but lost to Sea in the same event. I can't see how you justify his being "the best protoss around" and a +5 ranking boost when he hasn't done anything that separates him from the players he beat out. Yea he lost to Jaedong in the WCG but he beat an amateur and KWANRO to get to Jaedong. Stork and Much beat Forgg and Flash respectively in the WCG, Stork actually qualified. Luxury also qualified for the WCG, got -3 in the rankings, and while Best's loss to Jaedong is used in Best's favor, it's used against Luxury.
Stork has also won his last nine games if you don't count his WCG series against Jaedong, and he won those games in meaningful games, like MST and the OSL, and not freebies against XvP noobs in a meaningless invitational event.
Yes I don't like Best, but at least I have an argument.
BeSt played phenomenal vs GGPlay.
JangBi isn't terrible PvPer.. look at his opponents. JangBi is an A level progamer and that mean's he is by no means a scrub in any mu. Is Stork, arguably the best PvPer in the world, bad because he lost to JangBi too?
Calling fbh a vP stupid. It's not his strongest mu but if you look at all his recorded games ever he has never lost to anyone that was terrible PvT. The only player you can even give FBH shit for losing too is free and even then its barely even worth mention. People make fbh's weakness in TvP out to be much more than it is.
The only reason if any best shouldn't be up that far is because he was booted out of MSL pre mst.
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Luxury lost to Tempest in his first league ever and he had 2 terrans in his group (he lost to DarkElf come on that's disgusting).
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last month best was, deservingly, at seven. Since then, has best proven that he is better than a seven, let alone a two?
Not even fuckin close. Best has done nothing to improve his image from last month to this, and therefore a jump, let alone a substantial one, is uncalled for.
That being said, its your first time, so mistakes can be made. Good pr in general.
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If you don't think FBH is a TVP noob, you are disagreeing with a large percentage of TL'ers. Have you even watched some of his TvP games? It's not who's he's losing to, it's how he's losing.
Main reason why Best shouldn't be that high up, summarized from my previous post:
-There are others who have played better than him since the last power rank and in more meaningful matches (Stork) or who achieved more (Luxury actually qualified for WCG). Best's games against FBH and Jangbi were in the STX Masters which is a meaningless event, and he lost to Sea in that event as well. "Best played phenomenal vs GGPLAY" doesn't address my problem with him, which is that GGplay is a washed up player. Also, a lot of the players have played "phenomenal" against various players in August, players who are better than GGPlay.
and also, as you mentioned, you use Luxury's ousting from the MST against him, but at least he made it to the MST, unlike Best.
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The large percentage of TL.net also hated flash and said he was shit until he won an OSL. What does that say? TL.net is full of bandwagons. Best the best protoss player in the world. PR is made up of 2 things statistics in the past month and how good the actual player is.
This isn't the KeSPA ranking.
in the pre-mst stages and even the MST anything can happen. There is nothing that tells us exactly how the games went that knocked best out. His opponent could've luckboxed and came out ahead.
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How can you defend yourself on grounds that "Best is the best protoss player in the world" and separating this concept completely from statistics.
That is completely biased.
Stork has played amazing, much more amazing than Best in the last month in more meaningful games, but apparently Best being the top protoss player tops this.
Edit: Also, don't get so defensive, I made a point about why Best does not deserve to be that high, with what I think is a pretty sound argument. You are kind of nit-picking things about my points and going off on tangents to defend yourself, like the thing about Flash and bandwagoners.
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There is a difference between losing in the off-lines and getting your ass handed to you. Best won precisely 0 games in the MSL qualifiers you would think the best protoss in the world would be able to take at least 1 game of a nobody who didn't even make it to the MST.
Note: No I did not see the games but still 0 wins.
Best win against FBH is meaningless, Jangbi ya that is something but there are still more deserving players.
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On September 15 2008 11:18 ahole-surprise wrote:
How can you defend yourself on grounds that "Best is the best protoss player in the world" and separating this concept completely from statistics.
That is completely biased.
Stork has played amazing, much more amazing than Best in the last month in more meaningful games, but apparently Best being the top protoss player tops this.
Edit: Also, don't get so defensive, I made a point about why Best does not deserve to be that high, with what I think is a pretty sound argument. You are kind of nit-picking things about my points and going off on tangents to defend yourself, like the thing about Flash and bandwagoners.
Watch Stork play at his absolute best.
Watch BeSt play at his absolute best.
Come back and tell anyone that Stork is a better player with a straight face.
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On September 15 2008 12:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2008 11:18 ahole-surprise wrote:
How can you defend yourself on grounds that "Best is the best protoss player in the world" and separating this concept completely from statistics.
That is completely biased.
Stork has played amazing, much more amazing than Best in the last month in more meaningful games, but apparently Best being the top protoss player tops this.
Edit: Also, don't get so defensive, I made a point about why Best does not deserve to be that high, with what I think is a pretty sound argument. You are kind of nit-picking things about my points and going off on tangents to defend yourself, like the thing about Flash and bandwagoners. Watch Stork play at his absolute best. Watch BeSt play at his absolute best. Come back and tell anyone that Stork is a better player with a straight face. Stork is a better player.
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United States10774 Posts
On September 15 2008 09:03 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2008 08:59 TarsTarkas wrote:
I disagree with Stork being so high - but I'm pretty sure thats only because I don't like him. Good Job! Stork had an awesome August. He's got his work cut out for him this month, though. He lost to Sea in the all-star game and now faces him in both the MSL and OSL groups! Thanks for taking on the Power Rank while FakeSteve gets things worked out!
Stork is like 9999-1 against Sea. Sea won't repeat that win unless he prepares some nice cheese/strategic build.
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United States10774 Posts
Stork's PvT>Best's PvT
Stork's PvP=Stork's PvP (Best is amazing at PvP, but so is Stork.)
Stork's PvZ>Best's PvZ
Stork>Best.
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On September 15 2008 12:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2008 11:18 ahole-surprise wrote:
How can you defend yourself on grounds that "Best is the best protoss player in the world" and separating this concept completely from statistics.
That is completely biased.
Stork has played amazing, much more amazing than Best in the last month in more meaningful games, but apparently Best being the top protoss player tops this.
Edit: Also, don't get so defensive, I made a point about why Best does not deserve to be that high, with what I think is a pretty sound argument. You are kind of nit-picking things about my points and going off on tangents to defend yourself, like the thing about Flash and bandwagoners. Watch Stork play at his absolute best. Watch BeSt play at his absolute best. Come back and tell anyone that Stork is a better player with a straight face.
Watch Savior play at his absolute best.
So uh...why isn't Savior #1 power rank?
Oh right, it's about current ability too. Let's see...
Best :OSL, Eliminated offline prelims for MSL, eliminated Ro8 WCG
Stork:OSL, MSL, 2nd WCG.
Hm...
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lmao dude
u could have waited 2 weeks and skipped this month ^^
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haha a very nice and unbias PR this month!
unfortunitly the bias is what makes it hilarious, but still nice rank, and as much of an avid july fan as I am, I must agree, he's leaving something to be desired lately, he had a ZvP walk through the OSL and only a fool would deny that, if he ran into a terran I can't help but think he would of been eliminated.
But he didn't so I still love his insane micro and great play, but I want to see him step up even more and show us another goodfriend moment
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On September 15 2008 11:11 DeadVessel wrote:
The large percentage of TL.net also hated flash and said he was shit until he won an OSL. What does that say? TL.net is full of bandwagons. Best the best protoss player in the world. PR is made up of 2 things statistics in the past month and how good the actual player is.
This isn't the KeSPA ranking.
in the pre-mst stages and even the MST anything can happen. There is nothing that tells us exactly how the games went that knocked best out. His opponent could've luckboxed and came out ahead.
i admit that i didnt like flash when all he did was cheese but i liked him before he won the osl ^^
i liked his anti-carrier build.
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On September 15 2008 10:11 Realpenguin wrote:
Great power rank, definitely less fanboyism comapred to FS. (joking, just joking)
Not sure if Best should have been raised up that high though...
I'm expecting Midas+Savior to show up on the PR soon...
oh god I hope so
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This is a very good power rank, even though there's not much for writeups. The only thing I don't agree with is Luxury sticking around, but that might be because I'm not a Luxury fan. He hasn't done much for me lately. I mean losing to both Tempest and DarkElf in the MSL Survivor...
Hopefully we'll see more Zerg in the coming months. 
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On September 15 2008 12:28 OneOther wrote:
Stork's PvT>Best's PvT
Stork's PvP=Stork's PvP (Best is amazing at PvP, but so is Stork.)
Stork's PvZ>Best's PvZ
Stork>Best.
lol, i see what you did there 
(i know it was unintentional, but still funny)
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Mine would be more like
1.Jaedong
2. Stork
3. Much
4. Luxury
5. Flash
6. ForGG
7. Leta
8. Best
9. Fantasy
10. Thezerg
My 3-6 is such a toss-up though, like I could re-arrange that in any way and be happy. It's super hard to really rank players in a numerical order, so props to you deadvessel.
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September power rank coming out in the middle of the month. Pretty timely.
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On September 15 2008 12:49 Ideas wrote:
Mine would be more like
1.Jaedong
2. Stork
3. Much
4. Luxury
5. Flash
6. ForGG
7. Leta
8. Best
9. Fantasy
10. Thezerg
My 3-6 is such a toss-up though, like I could re-arrange that in any way and be happy. It's super hard to really rank players in a numerical order, so props to you deadvessel.
Thanks. Thezerg totally slipped my mind. TT
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On September 15 2008 12:49 Ideas wrote:
Mine would be more like
1.Jaedong
2. Stork
3. Much
4. Luxury
5. Flash
6. ForGG
7. Leta
8. Best
9. Fantasy
10. Thezerg
My 3-6 is such a toss-up though, like I could re-arrange that in any way and be happy. It's super hard to really rank players in a numerical order, so props to you deadvessel.
Much at 3 with one great match up, one decent match up, and one terrible match up?
God damn you people are bad at making lists.
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I kinda think Bisu deserves a spot on the list.
Bisu is in for both the MSL and OSL. He beat Stork in the STX Masters, 2-1ed Iris, and also defeated Much recently as well. Well, Much did go 1base Carriers, but Bisu handled it well. Each of those players are either on this power rank, or last month's, so they are quality wins. Even if he doesn't make the top 10, I think he deserves a CBNC at least.
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On September 15 2008 08:58 xenero wrote:
I agree with all your decisions though your PR lacks personality, and it's shorter, which leaves me with a twinge of sadness, but your placement is awesome.
I'm glad to see Jaedong @ number 1 after so many months where that spot was snached right before the month ended.
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Great job DeadVessel! I really like this PR, but I still miss the grumpy guy who normally writes these.
I like seeing ForGG so low for a change. I don't know why but watching him beat Flash and Jaedong really didn't seem that impressive. He seems to get thrown for a loop whenever he runs into someone who's moves he can't predict.
This seems to have been a rough month for anylizing player's skills though. NO good events or high pressure anything. I mean, WCG and STX Master's Cup? Talk about dry!
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Pretty good ranking, but July needs a bit more love. Winning when it counts has to be acknowledged.
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On September 15 2008 12:28 OneOther wrote:
Stork's PvT>Best's PvT
Stork's PvP=Stork's PvP (Best is amazing at PvP, but so is Stork.)
Stork's PvZ>Best's PvZ
Stork>Best.
I somewhat agree with this . Don't hail BEST because he took one 1 game vs Jaedong. In that game JD went all in and failed . I think Stork has been showing some great play too and result wise .
And whats up with Luxury being so low he did make WCG grand finals although droping out of MSL he still is the favourite in his OSL group .I think Luxury should be above Sea and fantasy until they prove some more that they belong here ...
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On September 15 2008 12:29 kpcrew wrote:
lmao dude
u could have waited 2 weeks and skipped this month ^^
Ah, assuming of course the Power Rank for next month will be on time. Which it likely won't be as recent months has shown.
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On September 15 2008 12:45 Not_Computer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2008 12:28 OneOther wrote:
Stork's PvT>Best's PvT
Stork's PvP=Stork's PvP (Best is amazing at PvP, but so is Stork.)
Stork's PvZ>Best's PvZ
Stork>Best. lol, i see what you did there (i know it was unintentional, but still funny)
Well i wouldn't be surprised if Stork beats Best in a PvP they are both great at the MU .
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On September 15 2008 13:33 ScarFace wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2008 12:49 Ideas wrote:
Mine would be more like
1.Jaedong
2. Stork
3. Much
4. Luxury
5. Flash
6. ForGG
7. Leta
8. Best
9. Fantasy
10. Thezerg
My 3-6 is such a toss-up though, like I could re-arrange that in any way and be happy. It's super hard to really rank players in a numerical order, so props to you deadvessel.
Much at 3 with one great match up, one decent match up, and one terrible match up? God damn you people are bad at making lists.
Much has one great match up , and two decent i don't know what his terrible MU is ?
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He's saying Much's PvZ is terrible which is completely inaccurate.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
something to note: If I wrote the rank this month, Stork would undoubtedly be at least as high as he is on DeadVessel's list. And I think he's terrible six days out of the week.
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I quite agree with this month's PR. Though I miss the grumpy/angry comments. All this sounds a little too politically correct.
Still, it always bugs me when some guys throw arguments like "X is 2-4 this month. He should be lower than Y who is 3-1".
You can make an argument out of statistics only if you take a large amount of relevant data, what is not possible for PR.
Otherwise, not only do you have to look how many games players win/lose, but also WHO they win/lose to and HOW. What DeadVessel did pretty well imo.
Midas losing to the über gay 2 rax proxy by Mind? Big deal. Much's defeat to Bisu almost counts as a win imo because the B/O fits the map and was well executed, with a lot of good in-game decisions. Much did not loose it. Bisu won.
On the other hand, July's B/O against Flash smelled like despair and helplessness (don't get me wrong, I like July) and made a few questionnable moves during the game.
See the difference?
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Russian Federation4333 Posts
Deadvessel why did you include September's games in the August PR?
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On September 15 2008 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
something to note: If I wrote the rank this month, Stork would undoubtedly be at least as high as he is on DeadVessel's list. And I think he's terrible six days out of the week.
And on the seventh day, he played ForGG on Bluestorm? While I will readily agree that not all his victories this month has been S level starcraft, that game was very good IMHO.
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It's absolutely clear for me that Stork should be higher than BeSt. ahole-surprise has given the arguments and there is no way to deny most of them. BeSt has accomplished almost nothing: he played a very good game vs GGPlay who is currently in really bad shape and two games in STX (where the game vs JangBi was indeed great). Pretty poor for the second spot in PR...
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fuck yeah! our zerg god Lee Jae Dong gets his throne back
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Seriously, Why is thezerg even on the CBNC?? He hasnt impressed at all. Luck got him trough. Crappy player.
Nice PR anyhow!
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On September 15 2008 22:28 ThePhan2m wrote:
Seriously, Why is thezerg even on the CBNC?? He hasnt impressed at all. Luck got him trough. Crappy player.
Nice PR anyhow!
Clearly you havent seen any of Thezerg's games, watch his games vs Hwasin before talking.
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United States10328 Posts
I also think best is a bit high - maybe 5th or so would be better. Sure, he might be "the best" P around (which I have no doubt about actually), but in the last month his results have not been as impressive as stork's or much's.
Speaking of much - GRANDPA TOSS FIGHTING. And this is coming from a T player ;o
1 base carriers? Fuck yes.
Stork should maybe be a bit higher (#2?), and Flash is about right - although I wish he'd bring back his old TvP pwnage, which is beginning to look a liiiitle shaky.
Thezerg should probably be on there too, but I think your top 10 as a whole seem to fit very well... no one to kick out in favor of thezerg 
Fantasy has been playing very well lately, so his spot seems pretty justified. But Lux seems... low. Of course, his performance last month was not great either. (unfortunately I have probably been corrupted by september games though)
Finally, don't lynch me, but Sea should be lower. Beating Stork was good :O but I think fantasy and luxury have been playing better than he has.
other things - there are 4 people on this power rank who have been #1 at some point :O
and stork has his highest as... 2nd. Who would've thought?
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On September 15 2008 19:28 TheTyranid wrote:
Deadvessel why did you include September's games in the August PR?
Because if I didn't I'd run out of players and have to start adding some. Would you have prefered me take some of September's games or add PokJu?
On September 16 2008 01:07 ]343[ wrote:I also think best is a bit high - maybe 5th or so would be better. Sure, he might be "the best" P around (which I have no doubt about actually), but in the last month his results have not been as impressive as stork's or much's. Speaking of much - GRANDPA TOSS FIGHTING. And this is coming from a T player ;o 1 base carriers? Fuck yes. Stork should maybe be a bit higher (#2?), and Flash is about right - although I wish he'd bring back his old TvP pwnage, which is beginning to look a liiiitle shaky. Thezerg should probably be on there too, but I think your top 10 as a whole seem to fit very well... no one to kick out in favor of thezerg Fantasy has been playing very well lately, so his spot seems pretty justified. But Lux seems... low. Of course, his performance last month was not great either. (unfortunately I have probably been corrupted by september games though) Finally, don't lynch me, but Sea should be lower. Beating Stork was good :O but I think fantasy and luxury have been playing better than he has. other things - there are 4 people on this power rank who have been #1 at some point :O and stork has his highest as... 2nd. Who would've thought?
Concerning Fantasy & Sea. It was very hard for me to place one before the other, on one hand fantasy beat NaDa twice and is both leagues. But on the other hand Sea played much more recently and performed well for the most part. In the end it was very close and I only put Sea ahead by a small margin. If I could both Sea and Fantasy would be at 7 and TheZerg would be on the list =].
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Yeah, I can remember when people thought Best would tear July up because 'look what he did to Luxury'. When Lux pretty much threw away the OSL to him. Similarly, beating ggplay doesn't really mean anything either. I still don't see his vZ as having been tested. Phenomenal PvP, yeah.
But then, Backho has great PvP too.
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lol, how the fuck is Leta on top 10 and Midas not. -_-;;
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Light instead of Thezerg on close...
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I think July should have placed ahead of Luxury. He's still playing well enough to deserve a spot, and he's lost the BO battle in 2/3 zvz's he's played. This ain't my fan boyism talking (although Steve, how could you?) but for someone playing so well the previous month he should at least be in top 10.
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On September 16 2008 03:37 SuperJongMan wrote:
lol, how the fuck is Leta on top 10 and Midas not. -_-;;
i think leta is currently better than midas.
midas has lost more recent games than leta.
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On September 16 2008 03:17 DeadVessel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2008 19:28 TheTyranid wrote:
Deadvessel why did you include September's games in the August PR?
Because if I didn't I'd run out of players and have to start adding some. Would you have prefered me take some of September's games or add PokJu? Show nested quote +On September 16 2008 01:07 ]343[ wrote:I also think best is a bit high - maybe 5th or so would be better. Sure, he might be "the best" P around (which I have no doubt about actually), but in the last month his results have not been as impressive as stork's or much's. Speaking of much - GRANDPA TOSS FIGHTING. And this is coming from a T player ;o 1 base carriers? Fuck yes. Stork should maybe be a bit higher (#2?), and Flash is about right - although I wish he'd bring back his old TvP pwnage, which is beginning to look a liiiitle shaky. Thezerg should probably be on there too, but I think your top 10 as a whole seem to fit very well... no one to kick out in favor of thezerg Fantasy has been playing very well lately, so his spot seems pretty justified. But Lux seems... low. Of course, his performance last month was not great either. (unfortunately I have probably been corrupted by september games though) Finally, don't lynch me, but Sea should be lower. Beating Stork was good :O but I think fantasy and luxury have been playing better than he has. other things - there are 4 people on this power rank who have been #1 at some point :O and stork has his highest as... 2nd. Who would've thought? Concerning Fantasy & Sea. It was very hard for me to place one before the other, on one hand fantasy beat NaDa twice and is both leagues. But on the other hand Sea played much more recently and performed well for the most part. In the end it was very close and I only put Sea ahead by a small margin. If I could both Sea and Fantasy would be at 7 and TheZerg would be on the list =].
I would have Luxury above fantasy and Sea because he is still the best all around zerg after Jaedong and he is the favourite in his OSL group + he made the WCG grand final .Although no zerg can reach the ZvP of Jaedong and July at the moment .
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On September 15 2008 09:25 DeadVessel wrote:
July's play has been dismal since his trouncing of BeSt. Beating Rock in a series ZvP does not warrant making PR or CBNC.
I think you fail to take into account that he's still the OSL champion.... he should have some stability in the rankings since he didn't really play many games, I don't think it's fair to take him off the PR.
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When were the OSL Finals? July
What month is it now? September
What did July do in August? Since the OSL Finals July is 2-4. He beat Jaehoon and took a game off Luxury but still lost the series. Tell me how that warrants anything? I LOVE July. If he wins his next games in the OSL then he's back on the PR without a doubt. But to be honest his play has been dismal and his stats were even worse. Go watch his game vs Flash it was terrible.
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@raga4ka
Luxury couldn't even take down Darkelf. He's playing Mind and Midas who have some of the best TvZ in Progaming. He is not the favorite, but he's not the underdog. Losing to Darkelf is the main reason that he's moved down so much. I don't care what map he lost to Darkelf on, a player of Luxury's caliber should NEVER lose to Darkelf.
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nice
but i miss fakesteve's in-your-face stz : <
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I don't really like Best so high, I'd put  Flash and  Stork above him. Both of them are tearing up both league qualifiers (or in some cases, getting seeded :p) right now, and if they both make it past groups, I'd slot them both above  Jaedong.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
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Luxury is still the S-Class player in that MU. I don't think he shoulda lost to DarkElf.
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United States10328 Posts
lol he lost to Yarnc in february -_-
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On September 16 2008 11:13 ]343[ wrote:lol he lost to Yarnc in february -_- uh, is yarncs zvt bad or something in your mind?
o.O
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also can note that DarkElf is 3-0 against Luxury. for whatever that is worth.
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United States10328 Posts
no, no, but it is probably worse than luxury's
of course the time period difference is too long so I guess it doesn't matter, w/e
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Maybe not #2 but I think Best deserves a spot in the top 4 at least
Stork does have better PvT than Best like most people here say but I still think Best's PvZ > Stork's PvZ
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Great PR, Except for stork not being higher on the list.. I have nothing to complain about.
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Ok PR this month IMO
I have only a few things i have to argue about:
- Why is Best too high and ForGG too low? ForGG had 8 games to play in 1 day and managed to win 5/8 of them losing only 1 Bo3 to Much. That is no easy feat. #2 would be too high to place ForGG though i think... I just think ForGG should be ranked higher than Much
- I expected Sea as #10. Not that hes bad, its just that beating Hades, Pure, and Hero in my humble opinion isnt enough to jump someone up to #7.
- Leta is too low too imo. He didnt have many games this month so its unfair to keep him too high but i doubt some of the guys above him (ie fantasy) are close enough to him yet
On a less serious note, why isnt Backho in CBNC?
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Calgary25966 Posts
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible.
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Who will write the next PR, and will it be released at the beginning or in the middle of October?
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While the order may not be perfect, I can't say that anyone else deserves to be on the list in front of everyone who did make the list. So all-in-all, good PR imo, and good CBNC.
July makes me sad Part of me was hoping he'd become the top zerg and dominate the way he did, the way savior did, again
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On September 16 2008 21:46 Februarys wrote:
Maybe not #2 but I think Best deserves a spot in the top 4 at least
Stork does have better PvT than Best like most people here say but I still think Best's PvZ > Stork's PvZ IMO, who ever has better pvz doesn't matter...they're both garbage at the match up [considering their potential I mean] either way. Its like arguing over which retard is smarter...it just doesn't matter.
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1. Jaedong - bestmonth since november
2. Stork - raping shit, choking in finals
3. Flash - beating JD in All Star, in both leagues
4. Much - beat fOrGG, Flash, embarass FBH
5. Sea - walking over, loosing to Calm
6. July - some quiet games but good in WCG
7. Leta - very good
8. Luxury - 3rd in WCG, 1 league qualified, one lost
9. BeSt[HyO]- took beatings from all above
10. fOrGG - beat by Much and others
CNBC: JangBi, Bisu, Mind, GGPlay, Thezerg, RuBy, Midas YellOw[ArnC], BackHo,
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On September 17 2008 04:53 Phradamon wrote:1. Jaedong - bestmonth since november 2. Stork - raping shit, choking in finals 3. Flash - beating JD in All Star, in both leagues 4. Much - beat fOrGG, Flash, embarass FBH 5. Sea - walking over, loosing to Calm6. July - some quiet games but good in WCG 7. Leta - very good 8. Luxury - 3rd in WCG, 1 league qualified, one lost 9. BeSt[HyO]- took beatings from all above 10. fOrGG - beat by Much and others CNBC: JangBi, Bisu, Mind, GGPlay, Thezerg, RuBy, Midas YellOw[ArnC], BackHo, This.
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Ruby would get CBNC just for making MSL? Not a chance.
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On September 17 2008 03:00 Chill wrote:
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible.
So? He gets results. Heck, he's even good at PvP.
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Mine:
1. Jaedong - crushed Flash, Stork, Leta, Luxury, Much, and BeSt[HyO] recently
2. fOrGG - though he fell down a flight of stairs and his vP may not be as strong as his other matchups (though we could use some more evidence), he's still only player to ever RAPE Jaedong in a series.
3. Flash - few players have the same potential as Flash. He's looked pretty insane in the few games he's played recently.
4. Stork - as good as he is, he just doesn't have the peak potential to be any higher imo, unless the players above him falter. But when that usually happens, another player ascends...
5. Leta - doesn't lose
6. Luxury - can beat pretty much anyone on the PR if he plays well
7. Much - only really strong vT, though not bad in the other two.
8. BeSt[HyO]- tough player to assess, his mechanics and game sense are insane, but corsair revear multitask looks to be a little lacking, and we could really use some more vT samples.
9. fantasy - looks great, need more results
10. Sea - looks great, lets see him advance further
CNBC:
Thezerg - looks sick, need more results, especially vP
Bisu - surprisingly solid! Needs to keep it up
Mind - " "
JangBi - " "
Midas - " "
July - basically a reverse Bisu, at this point.
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On September 17 2008 03:00 Chill wrote:
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible.
Did the bias fog up your eyes in his game vs Stork?
On a sidenote, did fOrGG completely recover from his game vs Stairs?
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On September 17 2008 07:22 xenero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2008 03:00 Chill wrote:
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible. Did the bias fog up your eyes in his game vs Stork?
I'm not an expert but it seems like his micro, macro, and army composition aren't very good, even though he has a tight harass game sense+storm micro.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
mine is something like this...
1. JaeDong
2. Flash
3. Stork
4. Much
5. ForGG
6. Leta
7. Fantasy
8. Sea
9. Best
10. Midas
but overall, Deadvessel's is pretty good
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On September 17 2008 07:25 traced wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2008 07:22 xenero wrote:On September 17 2008 03:00 Chill wrote:
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible. Did the bias fog up your eyes in his game vs Stork? I'm not an expert but it seems like his micro, macro, and army composition aren't very good, even though he has a tight harass game sense+storm micro. His macro isn't BAD, its just inconsistent. Sometimes its normal, sometimes its pretty sharp- other times he just sits around and collects minerals for no reason. I'd agree with the rest of what you said.
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On September 17 2008 07:25 traced wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2008 07:22 xenero wrote:On September 17 2008 03:00 Chill wrote:
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible. Did the bias fog up your eyes in his game vs Stork? I'm not an expert but it seems like his micro, macro, and army composition aren't very good, even though he has a tight harass game sense+storm micro.
So Backho isn't terrible.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On September 17 2008 03:00 Chill wrote:
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible.
high five chill
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On September 17 2008 05:20 CDRdude wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2008 03:00 Chill wrote:
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible. So? He gets results. Heck, he's even good at PvP.
Backho has lost more games than he's won since the beginning of June 2008. You think those are good results?
traced - I like your reasoning for Leta's spot on the rank you'd have written. "doesn't lose". hahahahaha
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I'm waiting with joy for the day that Backho makes it to the TL-Powerrank . Just cause i know that it basically will hurt the writer of it to put that name there :D.
But well, for Backho to get in there he probably has to win an OSL by beating Flash, Jaedong and Stork 3-0  .
Kidding ¨
A bit more serious... I don't know why Best is so high up there, i haven't seen Luxury donig much good either... But well... OSL/MSL will tell if you're right ^^. I also don't get the "Sea" love...
Btw: Backho fighting!
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On September 17 2008 13:23 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2008 05:20 CDRdude wrote:On September 17 2008 03:00 Chill wrote:
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible. So? He gets results. Heck, he's even good at PvP. Backho has lost more games than he's won since the beginning of June 2008. You think those are good results?
That would imply lousy results, but I think you are skewing the data. If you got that information from TLPD, you aren't including the GSL, which adds 10 televised games in that period. If you include those games, he's won a lot more than he's lost.
+ Show Spoiler [BackHo's GSL record since June] +2-0 vs Kal 2-1 vs GanZi 2-0 vs Stork 0-3 vs Flash (results from this wonderful thread.)
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Calgary25966 Posts
On September 17 2008 07:22 xenero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2008 03:00 Chill wrote:
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible. Did the bias fog up your eyes in his game vs Stork? On a sidenote, did fOrGG completely recover from his game vs Stairs?
Even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day.
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On September 18 2008 00:29 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2008 07:22 xenero wrote:On September 17 2008 03:00 Chill wrote:
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible. Did the bias fog up your eyes in his game vs Stork? On a sidenote, did fOrGG completely recover from his game vs Stairs? Even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day.
A broken clock, as in one that's off, will never tell the correct time.
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Backho's very good at PvP. He outplayed Bisu and I believe Much to get to the OSL semi's. But he's been weak in the other two mu's. I don't think the "watch Backho vs Stork" argument has much meaning. PvP isn't the mu that's keeping him off the PR.
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no, a broken clock - as in one that isn't moving.
-_-
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CDRdude, BackHo is a terrible player. No amount of statistics will change our minds.
He is cheesy, he gets fluke wins. He straight game is dreadful and he's horribly incompetent (go watch BackHo vs July on Hwarangdo).
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On September 18 2008 02:34 Purind wrote:
Backho's very good at PvP. He outplayed Bisu and I believe Much to get to the OSL semi's. But he's been weak in the other two mu's. I don't think the "watch Backho vs Stork" argument has much meaning. PvP isn't the mu that's keeping him off the PR.
'watch backho vs stork' should be an argument to never, ever, ever put him on the pr
kill 50 fucking probes and still get raped by massively superior macro and army control
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On September 18 2008 03:44 DeadVessel wrote:
CDRdude, BackHo is a terrible player. No amount of statistics will change our minds.
He is cheesy, he gets fluke wins. He straight game is dreadful and he's horribly incompetent (go watch BackHo vs July on Hwarangdo).
With my previous post I wasn't trying to argue that he's a decent player. I was trying to make the case that he gets results, but I worded it poorly. (I think he's a mediocre player though.)
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On September 17 2008 18:19 CDRdude wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2008 13:23 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On September 17 2008 05:20 CDRdude wrote:On September 17 2008 03:00 Chill wrote:
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible. So? He gets results. Heck, he's even good at PvP. Backho has lost more games than he's won since the beginning of June 2008. You think those are good results? That would imply lousy results, but I think you are skewing the data. If you got that information from TLPD, you aren't including the GSL, which adds 10 televised games in that period. If you include those games, he's won a lot more than he's lost. + Show Spoiler [BackHo's GSL record since June] +2-0 vs Kal 2-1 vs GanZi 2-0 vs Stork 0-3 vs Flash (results from this wonderful thread.) That puts his winning percentage since the beginning of June to 51.8%. Which is pretty bad, but he hasn't been playing total scrubs. BackHo made the semifinals of two leagues, which in my book, counts as results. I'll grant you that he's usually a lousy player, but I think he gets results far beyond what he could reasonably hope for.
Kal has pretty bad PvP and played especially awful in those games, ganzi is fucking bad, the stork wins were flukey as hell, and flash properly destroyed him
even with these "AMAZING" results he's 51.8%? And you think that makes him one of the ten best players in the world?
He had soft opponents that he repeatedly cheesed in both of those leagues. I bet you're going to try to pretend Jangbi is good at PvP, and that Backho barely squeaking by one of the worst PvP players on the circuit 2-1 is some sort of accomplishment.
You gotta realize that the results Backho is getting are because of cheese and bad play by his opponents at fortunate moments. His two semi-final appearances are entirely coincidental, he is in no way a starleague contendor, he won't find himself qualifying for OSL round of 16 very often in the future.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Also: You know I write this thing, right? Of course I don't "get my information from TLPD". I get my information by watching every single game.
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I wouldn't say its totally fair to kal to say out of hand hes pretty bad in pvp. He definitely needs improvement, no argument, hes definitely mediocre in the match up, but hes not hopeless or anything. Kal has gone 11-6 [not counting a win against Pusan] since just before his MSL run. Thats a 64% win ratio. I'm not saying statistics prove that Kal is a good pvper, cause hes mediocre, hes meh. I'm just saying, thats not BAD, he leaves room to be desired, but he has given a few good games- notably against Best for example.
just my 2 cents
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On September 18 2008 10:36 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Also: You know I write this thing, right? Of course I don't "get my information from TLPD". I get my information by watching every single game.
I could never watch every single game, probably why my arguments in these types of threads are pretty weak.
Traced, your PR is completely screwed up. ForGG was knocked out of the OSL in the 9th game he played in that day, and his best matchup is TvP. In the same vein, an on form Much, people usually assess his greatest weakness to be is PvT. It's been considered ridiculously lucky that Much took out ForGG in game 9.
Best's PvT is really good. He's beaten an in form Flash PvT with a carrier rush of all things on Colosseum. IMO, if you had to pick one, it'd be PvZ, but his multitask is considered superior to the average player.
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On September 18 2008 14:24 thunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2008 10:36 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Also: You know I write this thing, right? Of course I don't "get my information from TLPD". I get my information by watching every single game. I could never watch every single game, probably why my arguments in these types of threads are pretty weak. Traced, your PR is completely screwed up. ForGG was knocked out of the OSL in the 9th game he played in that day, and his best matchup is TvP. In the same vein, an on form Much, people usually assess his greatest weakness to be is PvT. It's been considered ridiculously lucky that Much took out ForGG in game 9.Best's PvT is really good. He's beaten an in form Flash PvT with a carrier rush of all things on Colosseum. IMO, if you had to pick one, it'd be PvZ, but his multitask is considered superior to the average player.
Uhh...Much has great PvT
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On September 18 2008 14:24 thunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2008 10:36 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Also: You know I write this thing, right? Of course I don't "get my information from TLPD". I get my information by watching every single game. I could never watch every single game, probably why my arguments in these types of threads are pretty weak. Traced, your PR is completely screwed up. ForGG was knocked out of the OSL in the 9th game he played in that day, and his best matchup is TvP. In the same vein, an on form Much, people usually assess his greatest weakness to be is PvT. It's been considered ridiculously lucky that Much took out ForGG in game 9. Best's PvT is really good. He's beaten an in form Flash PvT with a carrier rush of all things on Colosseum. IMO, if you had to pick one, it'd be PvZ, but his multitask is considered superior to the average player.
yeah...so what are you actually arguing here? it seems like you're saying he deserves a top spot...which I agree. I only noted his vP may not be as strong as his other two matches because he's absolutely dominated great terrans and zergs lately, whereas he's actually lost to Protoss. And as was pointed out, Much and Stork both have top class PvT, and really 3 of the 4 wins were relatively non-standard - Much went quick two base carriers on RotK I think, which ForGG was unprepared for because he went for a strong mid-game push; on Andromeda he wasn't able to scout Much, who went DT drop, which was an automatic gg; against Stork on Troy, Stork went for a proxy-ish 2 base carriers build which ForGG did an admirable job in defending, wiped out Stork's original base and almost pulled out a win; and then the game on Blue Storm was pretty sick, I'm not sure if ForGG made any mistakes other than being a little too aggressive instead of settling for splitting the map, which gave Stork the chance to brilliantly hold - it seemed more Stork's win than ForGG's loss.
As for Best...I probably should have put him at 6th, thinking about it. I actually think his vT and vZ are both strong, better than people give him credit for...but he hasn't really gotten results lately. Also, correct me if I'm wrong here, but that win on Colosseum was at least partially because of his dual forges, which Flash hadn't encountered before. I mean it's a great win but it's only so telling, skillwise.
My power rank is more...dependent on sample size/regression than what you're expecting, which I think is the problem. Remember, I'm not an expert, I'm just making an amateur's list - I have to doubt.
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On September 15 2008 09:35 Kwark wrote:
Backho!
BACKHO!!
BAAAACKHOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
hurhurhur, maybe next time eh hes looking far more stylish though and UncleToss > Jaedong np
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On September 18 2008 17:09 traced wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2008 14:24 thunk wrote:On September 18 2008 10:36 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Also: You know I write this thing, right? Of course I don't "get my information from TLPD". I get my information by watching every single game. I could never watch every single game, probably why my arguments in these types of threads are pretty weak. Traced, your PR is completely screwed up. ForGG was knocked out of the OSL in the 9th game he played in that day, and his best matchup is TvP. In the same vein, an on form Much, people usually assess his greatest weakness to be is PvT. It's been considered ridiculously lucky that Much took out ForGG in game 9. Best's PvT is really good. He's beaten an in form Flash PvT with a carrier rush of all things on Colosseum. IMO, if you had to pick one, it'd be PvZ, but his multitask is considered superior to the average player. yeah...so what are you actually arguing here? it seems like you're saying he deserves a top spot...which I agree. I only noted his vP may not be as strong as his other two matches because he's absolutely dominated great terrans and zergs lately, whereas he's actually lost to Protoss. And as was pointed out, Much and Stork both have top class PvT, and really 3 of the 4 wins were relatively non-standard - Much went quick two base carriers on RotK I think, which ForGG was unprepared for because he went for a strong mid-game push; on Andromeda he wasn't able to scout Much, who went DT drop, which was an automatic gg; against Stork on Troy, Stork went for a proxy-ish 2 base carriers build which ForGG did an admirable job in defending, wiped out Stork's original base and almost pulled out a win; and then the game on Blue Storm was pretty sick, I'm not sure if ForGG made any mistakes other than being a little too aggressive instead of settling for splitting the map, which gave Stork the chance to brilliantly hold - it seemed more Stork's win than ForGG's loss. As for Best...I probably should have put him at 6th, thinking about it. I actually think his vT and vZ are both strong, better than people give him credit for...but he hasn't really gotten results lately. Also, correct me if I'm wrong here, but that win on Colosseum was at least partially because of his dual forges, which Flash hadn't encountered before. I mean it's a great win but it's only so telling, skillwise. My power rank is more...dependent on sample size/regression than what you're expecting, which I think is the problem. Remember, I'm not an expert, I'm just making an amateur's list - I have to doubt.
protoss upgrades have such little importance in TvP once a terran reaches +2 weapons
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Best's PvT is really good. He's beaten an in form Flash PvT with a carrier rush of all things on Colosseum. IMO, if you had to pick one, it'd be PvZ, but his multitask is considered superior to the average player.
of all the things you could reference to talk about how good best is pvt, you talk about 14 nex into carrier vs a turtle terran?
lolz
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On September 17 2008 04:53 Phradamon wrote:1. Jaedong - bestmonth since november 2. Stork - raping shit, choking in finals 3. Flash - beating JD in All Star, in both leagues 4. Much - beat fOrGG, Flash, embarass FBH 5. Sea - walking over, loosing to Calm6. July - some quiet games but good in WCG 7. Leta - very good 8. Luxury - 3rd in WCG, 1 league qualified, one lost 9. BeSt[HyO]- took beatings from all above 10. fOrGG - beat by Much and others CNBC: JangBi, Bisu, Mind, GGPlay, Thezerg, RuBy, Midas YellOw[ArnC], BackHo,
i like your ranking, but i would just put forgg in top 4 since he does not have a weak mu, whereas a guy like much has a pretty weak pvz.
i think best is too low as well, id put him in top 5 w/ forgg and bump much down to 6
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 18 2008 10:32 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2008 18:19 CDRdude wrote:On September 17 2008 13:23 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On September 17 2008 05:20 CDRdude wrote:On September 17 2008 03:00 Chill wrote:
I'll answer that one, because Backho is terrible. So? He gets results. Heck, he's even good at PvP. Backho has lost more games than he's won since the beginning of June 2008. You think those are good results? That would imply lousy results, but I think you are skewing the data. If you got that information from TLPD, you aren't including the GSL, which adds 10 televised games in that period. If you include those games, he's won a lot more than he's lost. + Show Spoiler [BackHo's GSL record since June] +2-0 vs Kal 2-1 vs GanZi 2-0 vs Stork 0-3 vs Flash (results from this wonderful thread.) You gotta realize that the results Backho is getting are because of cheese and bad play by his opponents at fortunate moments. His two semi-final appearances are entirely coincidental, he is in no way a starleague contendor, he won't find himself qualifying for OSL round of 16 very often in the future. Backho qualified for both semifinals on a single matchup losing (or playing terribly) in every other mu. He's got a really good pvp, but his pvt and pvz are so goddam terrible it hurts
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On September 18 2008 22:59 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +Best's PvT is really good. He's beaten an in form Flash PvT with a carrier rush of all things on Colosseum. IMO, if you had to pick one, it'd be PvZ, but his multitask is considered superior to the average player. of all the things you could reference to talk about how good best is pvt, you talk about 14 nex into carrier vs a turtle terran? lolz
Yea, but all the kids that beat Flash on that map went 12 nexus; the timing and stuff makes it so 12 nexus is really, really viable. And it takes balls to go carrier against a build specifically designed to take that type of stuff down. But I guess I could have chosen different examples though.
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waaaa
what happened to Luxury?!??
get up get up
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Please Stork don't choke.
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On September 15 2008 10:29 ahole-surprise wrote:
Best is too high up. Since his OSL bashing, he's lost to Leta, played one game in the OSL against a washed up Zerg in GGplay, and he pounced on XvP noobs like FBH and Jangbi in the STX masters, but lost to Sea in the same event. I can't see how you justify his being "the best protoss around" and a +5 ranking boost when he hasn't done anything that separates him from the players he beat out. Yea he lost to Jaedong in the WCG but he beat an amateur and KWANRO to get to Jaedong. Stork and Much beat Forgg and Flash respectively in the WCG, Stork actually qualified. Luxury also qualified for the WCG, got -3 in the rankings, and while Best's loss to Jaedong is used in Best's favor, it's used against Luxury.
Stork has also won his last nine games if you don't count his WCG series against Jaedong, and he won those games in meaningful games, like MST and the OSL, and not freebies against XvP noobs in a meaningless invitational event.
Yes I don't like Best, but at least I have an argument.
I fully agree.
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On September 21 2008 09:52 thunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2008 22:59 IdrA wrote:Best's PvT is really good. He's beaten an in form Flash PvT with a carrier rush of all things on Colosseum. IMO, if you had to pick one, it'd be PvZ, but his multitask is considered superior to the average player. of all the things you could reference to talk about how good best is pvt, you talk about 14 nex into carrier vs a turtle terran? lolz Yea, but all the kids that beat Flash on that map went 12 nexus; the timing and stuff makes it so 12 nexus is really, really viable. And it takes balls to go carrier against a build specifically designed to take that type of stuff down. But I guess I could have chosen different examples though.
double expo is designed to beat 14 nex into 2 base carrier?
if you just mean the fast armory build in general, its not nearly enough to compensate for that.
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Well, whatever.
King Midas and Prince Best will be 1,2 power punch soon.
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something seriously wrong with this month's power rank.
july was 4th last month and now hes 11+ with no mention of why?
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On September 24 2008 13:43 crabapple wrote:
something seriously wrong with this month's power rank.
july was 4th last month and now hes 11+ with no mention of why?
Well he didn't have many series to show of his godlike powers. He will most likely advance out of his OSL group and besides Flash and maybe Midas and See there are not much potential TvZ players to stop him , so things maybe looking good for the God Of War if he advances .
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edit: stork should be higher.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
i dont know how you can possibly put stork, or anyone else for that matter, above jaedong O_O
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I disagree with this. Did you forget about Best entirely? And, thezerg > luxury? fOrGG nowhere to be found? Sure, we haven't seen him recently, but you assume he got a lot worse all of a sudden. I may disagree with PR's on occasion, and I may be a horrible BackHo fanboy, but posts like this make me glad that FakeSteve normally does the power rank.
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On September 26 2008 11:48 CDRdude wrote:I disagree with this. Did you forget about Best entirely? And, thezerg > luxury? fOrGG nowhere to be found? Sure, we haven't seen him recently, but you assume he got a lot worse all of a sudden. I may disagree with PR's on occasion, and I may be a horrible BackHo fanboy, but posts like this make me glad that FakeSteve normally does the power rank.
Well, if I were to do PR it would be on a monthly basis, strictly, rather than overall.
Do I think, overall Luxury is better than Thezerg? Absolutely.
Jaedong is the best player in the world.
BeSt is top 5 easy. I'm not claiming to be an expert. I'm not going to be pretentious and pretend I know more than FS who watches every fucking game. I do "ok" in liquibet, and I watch the VODs that I'm told are interesting, and the GOM games with players I like.
If I were to guess at who is doing the best THIS MONTH, it would be those players in order.
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If you're doing whose doing the best this month, you would be very close to perfect. However, if you're doing who played best and showed the best game this month and just whose better this month, you would need to switch the top two.
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On September 26 2008 12:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2008 11:48 CDRdude wrote:I disagree with this. Did you forget about Best entirely? And, thezerg > luxury? fOrGG nowhere to be found? Sure, we haven't seen him recently, but you assume he got a lot worse all of a sudden. I may disagree with PR's on occasion, and I may be a horrible BackHo fanboy, but posts like this make me glad that FakeSteve normally does the power rank. Well, if I were to do PR it would be on a monthly basis, strictly, rather than overall. Do I think, overall Luxury is better than Thezerg? Absolutely. Jaedong is the best player in the world. BeSt is top 5 easy. I'm not claiming to be an expert. I'm not going to be pretentious and pretend I know more than FS who watches every fucking game. I do "ok" in liquibet, and I watch the VODs that I'm told are interesting, and the GOM games with players I like. If I were to guess at who is doing the best THIS MONTH, it would be those players in order.
I think doing the PR based on who are the current top 10 best players including their play from current month is much better than simply who performed the best this month without regarding their overall terms of skill. If we go by your method of PR, we could possibly see weak players like Rock as #1 PR, if in that month, he beats other low level players without losing any. Lets say that Jaedong lost 2 games in December to another high level player like Flash, while Rock did not lose any games during December, but he beat players like Backho and Tossgirl. Strictly looking how well they performed that month, its obvious that Rock had a better month than Jaedong. However, would you place Rock above Jaedong for December PR? I dont think so
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9070 Posts
BeSt is in better shape than JD IMO
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On September 26 2008 13:31 Februarys wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2008 12:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On September 26 2008 11:48 CDRdude wrote:I disagree with this. Did you forget about Best entirely? And, thezerg > luxury? fOrGG nowhere to be found? Sure, we haven't seen him recently, but you assume he got a lot worse all of a sudden. I may disagree with PR's on occasion, and I may be a horrible BackHo fanboy, but posts like this make me glad that FakeSteve normally does the power rank. Well, if I were to do PR it would be on a monthly basis, strictly, rather than overall. Do I think, overall Luxury is better than Thezerg? Absolutely. Jaedong is the best player in the world. BeSt is top 5 easy. I'm not claiming to be an expert. I'm not going to be pretentious and pretend I know more than FS who watches every fucking game. I do "ok" in liquibet, and I watch the VODs that I'm told are interesting, and the GOM games with players I like. If I were to guess at who is doing the best THIS MONTH, it would be those players in order. I think doing the PR based on who are the current top 10 best players including their play from current month is much better than simply who performed the best this month without regarding their overall terms of skill. If we go by your method of PR, we could possibly see weak players like Rock as #1 PR, if in that month, he beats other low level players without losing any. Lets say that Jaedong lost 2 games in December to another high level player like Flash, while Rock did not lose any games during December, but he beat players like Backho and Tossgirl. Strictly looking how well they performed that month, its obvious that Rock had a better month than Jaedong. However, would you place Rock above Jaedong for December PR? I dont think so
Lol if Rock was #1 TL would revolt.
That being said, there is no doubt the current system (the one in the latter description) is better.
I honestly think DrHelvetica just realized his mistake and is trying to cover it up with an excuse.
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On September 27 2008 03:33 disciple wrote:
BeSt is in better shape than JD IMO
uhm, what ? 
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On September 27 2008 04:11 capek wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2008 13:31 Februarys wrote:On September 26 2008 12:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On September 26 2008 11:48 CDRdude wrote:I disagree with this. Did you forget about Best entirely? And, thezerg > luxury? fOrGG nowhere to be found? Sure, we haven't seen him recently, but you assume he got a lot worse all of a sudden. I may disagree with PR's on occasion, and I may be a horrible BackHo fanboy, but posts like this make me glad that FakeSteve normally does the power rank. Well, if I were to do PR it would be on a monthly basis, strictly, rather than overall. Do I think, overall Luxury is better than Thezerg? Absolutely. Jaedong is the best player in the world. BeSt is top 5 easy. I'm not claiming to be an expert. I'm not going to be pretentious and pretend I know more than FS who watches every fucking game. I do "ok" in liquibet, and I watch the VODs that I'm told are interesting, and the GOM games with players I like. If I were to guess at who is doing the best THIS MONTH, it would be those players in order. I think doing the PR based on who are the current top 10 best players including their play from current month is much better than simply who performed the best this month without regarding their overall terms of skill. If we go by your method of PR, we could possibly see weak players like Rock as #1 PR, if in that month, he beats other low level players without losing any. Lets say that Jaedong lost 2 games in December to another high level player like Flash, while Rock did not lose any games during December, but he beat players like Backho and Tossgirl. Strictly looking how well they performed that month, its obvious that Rock had a better month than Jaedong. However, would you place Rock above Jaedong for December PR? I dont think so Lol if Rock was #1 TL would revolt. That being said, there is no doubt the current system (the one in the latter description) is better. I honestly think DrHelvetica just realized his mistake and is trying to cover it up with an excuse.
The system of month by month is just my personal taste.
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9070 Posts
On September 27 2008 07:00 Jaeden wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2008 03:33 disciple wrote:
BeSt is in better shape than JD IMO uhm, what ?
BeSt is showing pretty solid results lately and JD haven't played for a while, thats why its rather logical to think that BeSt will extend his winning streak then JD starting an all-kill crusade with his MSL group. I have no doubt in him advancing, but I think he will do it the hard way
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Russian Federation4333 Posts
On September 27 2008 09:34 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2008 07:00 Jaeden wrote:On September 27 2008 03:33 disciple wrote:
BeSt is in better shape than JD IMO uhm, what ? BeSt is showing pretty solid results lately and JD haven't played for a while, thats why its rather logical to think that BeSt will extend his winning streak then JD starting an all-kill crusade with his MSL group. I have no doubt in him advancing, but I think he will do it the hard way
Jaedong's latest results are just as solid as Best's. I don't see how he is playing any worse than Best. Not playing for a long time shouldn't be a factor. These guys practice 24/7. Oh and Best's opponents in the OSL were mediocre so you should elaborate more on your opinion.
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On September 27 2008 09:34 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2008 07:00 Jaeden wrote:On September 27 2008 03:33 disciple wrote:
BeSt is in better shape than JD IMO uhm, what ? BeSt is showing pretty solid results lately and JD haven't played for a while, thats why its rather logical to think that BeSt will extend his winning streak then JD starting an all-kill crusade with his MSL group. I have no doubt in him advancing, but I think he will do it the hard way
BeSt lacks consistent wins in all match-ups (Hello PvZ). Also Jaedong is pretty much undeniably the best player on earth, and has been for a long time. Even when Flash was invincible for half a season, Jaedong wasn't showing much weakness.
He got cheesed out of OSL. It happens.
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On September 27 2008 10:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2008 09:34 disciple wrote:On September 27 2008 07:00 Jaeden wrote:On September 27 2008 03:33 disciple wrote:
BeSt is in better shape than JD IMO uhm, what ? BeSt is showing pretty solid results lately and JD haven't played for a while, thats why its rather logical to think that BeSt will extend his winning streak then JD starting an all-kill crusade with his MSL group. I have no doubt in him advancing, but I think he will do it the hard way BeSt lacks consistent wins in all match-ups (Hello PvZ). Also Jaedong is pretty much undeniably the best player on earth, and has been for a long time. Even when Flash was invincible for half a season, Jaedong wasn't showing much weakness. He got cheesed out of OSL. It happens.
um...jaedong didn't get cheesed out of the osl. he just got beaten
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Valhalla18444 Posts
yep, let's be clear about that. han played great and beat jaedong straight-up, it was an awesome bo3
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Best won PvZ against GGPlay in 2008, OMG his PvZ has gotten a LOT better! (sarcasm). Do you think Best could win convincingly against Flash in a Bo5 this month if that was all Flash practiced for?
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9070 Posts
JD advanced with some difficulties so my statement is correct
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On September 27 2008 18:47 disciple wrote:
JD advanced with some difficulties so my statement is correct
I would agree that Jaedong's ZvT has looked ALOT more touchable recently, the last last 6 months he is actually 9-13 in kespa sanctioned games (so not counting GOM). But really, top spot is not only about top results, it is about being the top player. Right now, I think Jaedong has even odds against the best Terran players, and overwhelming odds against any Protoss or Zerg. The same analogy does clearly not hold true for Best, while he would be even against most, I would hold July and Jaedong as CLEAR favorites over Best, and I think terrans like Flash and ForGG would be favored as well.
People seem to have dropped ForGG WAY too fast IMHO. He lost two series in recent memory, in the OSL and WCG, and suddenly, he is no good? Remember, he lost against the very best PvT players there is, and he didn't get trounced either. I honestly think ForGG should have 2nd this month.
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On September 27 2008 18:47 disciple wrote:
JD advanced with some difficulties so my statement is correct
yes but still...JD > Best, i have no doubt
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On September 27 2008 13:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
yep, let's be clear about that. han played great and beat jaedong straight-up, it was an awesome bo3
And also that was like in august ... I don't know what it has to do with Oktober's rank selection .
I don't think Best deserves to be even second clearly Stork has outperformed him recently and if he demolish his rather tough MSL group he should be above Best . I don't know why Best is so high this month ( maybe because Flash has fallen) when he had played only some special PL events and that was all , but stork rolled WCG korea up to the final and qualified for both leagues . Something Best failed to do , also i think Stork's OSL group was a lot harder too .
I too still think that ForGG should be in top 5 at least . I think that when you dumb Leta Luxury and probably Sea too out of the rank next month one of the slots should be taken by one of the three who passes the group of death in the OSL tiebreakers ( July , Much or Bisu ). I don't know if the map pool can get anymore worse for zergs Plasma is a bitch , and zergs need to do something to survive it (well whats left of them ) . I think Flash should still be third or fourth shuffle him with Best somehow . And don't look just at the OSL , MSL and also GSL is equal in importance now .
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9070 Posts
On September 28 2008 13:28 ScarFace wrote:
bisu for pr
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On September 28 2008 18:49 disciple wrote:
Maybe a low level 9-10 to CBNC if the PR is on time .
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My power rank after last night's tiebreakers.
1. Jaedong- No reason to move him down after advancing from his MSL group. It is funny how my top 2 are not in the OSL.
2. ForGG- Moving him down from 1 to 6 last month was a mistake. So what if he lost to Much 1-2 and lost to Stork in WCG. He was still winning games beating players like Hwasin, Bisu, and Shark. He should've been 2 last month and after rolling his MSL group he deserves the 2 spot.
3. Stork- This guy is on fire and is in both leagues. He is like 16-3 in his last 19 or something crazy like that. Idk if Stork playing in his best form can be stopped before the finals.
4. Best- Yes, you took care of business and 3-0'd your crappy OSL group. You will still keep a high spot for taking care of business. You play Midas in your first big PvT series I believe. It should be a good one. Best definitly has potential to move up if he goes on an OSL run like last seasons.
5. Flash- Going 3-0 against the group of death in the OSL was really impressive. Those two games against Yarnc were not. Yes, Yarnc is good at zvt, but champions don't go out in the round of 32. Flash should be able to beat GGPlay, which will set up an interesting series vs Mind or Fantasy.
6. Bisu- Ok, I am biased and people are probably gonna say this is too high, but hear me out. He was able to make it through the group of death by making it through the tiebreaker of death. Much and July zvp are very difficult opponents to 2-0. Honestly, he looked really good in those tiebreakers. He has yet to play his MSL group. Oh yeah and about top from Stork being unbeatable? If Bisu plays in his top form I think he can beat Stork and advance.
7. Fantasy- I think you have impressed everyone on your first big stage this OSL. First the 2-1 over Nada, then taking down Sea, and finally sealing the deal against Backho. He is also in the MSL still. With his TvT skills, he should be a favorite over Mind. The only reason I put Bisu ahead of Fantasy was because Bisu's group was much harder imo.
8. Midas- He was on cbnc last month and he delivered in the OSL by advancing. He looked impressive against Luxury and Thezerg. Unfortunatly, he is not in the MSL. He now has a big series against Best, which I believe he is very capable of winning. If he can win that he will likely be up near the top of the rankings like during the first months of the power rank.
9. Jangbi- The only other player not in the OSL on my rank. He has been damn impressive lately. Light cheesed him out of the OSL, which was very unfortunate, but he rolled through his MSL group. His pvt has always been very good, but now that his pvz is looking very good and his pvp is improving he is definitly a major contender in this MSL. I also predict him making the finals of Blizzcon before losing an epic series to Idra for the title.
10. Mind- You sucked losing to Zero in your survivor group, but did advance in the OSL. This 10 spot is basically a gift because no one else deserves it. You did beat Midas and Thezerg, but that was through cheese and what many people call an imbalanced map. You probably need to beat or at least have an close series against Fantasy if you want to hold this spot.
CBNC:
Sea and Much- You are still in the MSL and looked ok in the OSL, but got knocked out. Just not good enough to make the power rank though.
Luxury and Leta- Now that both of you are not in MSL or OSL you can't get a spot.
Thezerg- You definitly left a good impression and impressed a lot of people this OSL. You'll be back sooner or later.
FBH- Yes we have not heard from him in a while, but if he can make it past the 3 protosses in his MSL group he deserves a spot. He also ended last seasons proleague on fire.
Well I hope you enjoyed this and agreed or agreed to disagree. Idk why I talk in second person sometimes lol. I also think that the GOM tournament should be fairly important once it gets past the prelim rounds since it KESPA sactioned now. However, it is a bit unfair to players on MBC, OGN, and ACE, mostly to Sea. Comment please!
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well, imo this looks like a solid 2nd place for storky...as always
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9070 Posts
great PR nick, maybe I can argue just about the top spot... JD advanced in the MSL but not in the convincing way we used to see him. He didnt played as much as all others below him, so I think putting him on the very top for this month is a bit too much. But who is worthy enough to be #1... flash got rick rolled in the msl but destroyed the group of death in OSL. As weird as it may sound Stork deserves to be ranked as number 1. I dont put into question that JD>Stork in any case but if you seek the possible outcome of every encounter between the guys in the PR the hole picture will get messy. To put it simple this month players like BeSt and Stork showed more impressive results than JD
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On September 29 2008 05:00 disciple wrote:
great PR nick, maybe I can argue just about the top spot... JD advanced in the MSL but not in the convincing way we used to see him. He didnt played as much as all others below him, so I think putting him on the very top for this month is a bit too much. But who is worthy enough to be #1... flash got rick rolled in the msl but destroyed the group of death in OSL. As weird as it may sound Stork deserves to be ranked as number 1. I dont put into question that JD>Stork in any case but if you seek the possible outcome of every encounter between the guys in the PR the hole picture will get messy. To put it simple this month players like BeSt and Stork showed more impressive results than JD
You think I just really don't Stork and Best did enough to pass Jaedong, even though they may have been playing the best this month. I still value the performances of the champions from the past couple of months as opposed to the hot players in the group stages, as long as the champions have not gone into some crazy, terrible slump.
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no...seriously, JD > stork...u may think that JD didn`t play well...but that`s just because the lack of games he played.
+ Show Spoiler +he got bunker rushed in his game against FrOzean, and he had to cancel his hatch. He won the first game against go.go just because gogo sucks. Frozean played OK.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
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Jaedong got bunkered rushed twice on medium-sized 3-player maps and still advanced from his MSL group. He made the winner's match closer than anyone else could've.
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On September 29 2008 07:43 xenero wrote:
Jaedong got bunkered rushed twice on medium-sized 3-player maps and still advanced from his MSL group. He made the winner's match closer than anyone else could've.
I agree, those terrans he played knew that they would not stand a chance straight up game with Jaedong and they chose to bunker rush him. Did you see how unbelieveably happy and surprised Frozean was with himself after he beat Jaedong from starting off with a cheese?
Jaedong beat a 2 gate proxy with a 12 hatch before. He beat bunker rushes with 12 hatches before. I don't expect him to pull off impossible wins every game, no one is safe from cheeses all the time, no matter how good they are
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Question: Will Sea[SHIELD] ever get back on this list?
I understand he isn't in the individual leagues, but I think that is due to nerves more than anything else.
He is still a solid player and I think his proleague stats (not this month but other months) should get him in.
edit: went and looked at fantasy game again.
don't know what I was thinking
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Don't forget Stork cheesed him too, (1 matrix away). How unfortunate.
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On September 29 2008 08:35 capek wrote:
Question: Will Sea[SHIELD] ever get back on this list?
I understand he isn't in the individual leagues, but I think that is due to cheeses (*COUGH*FANTASY*COUGH) and nerves more than anything else.
He is still a solid player and I think his proleague stats (not this month but other months) should get him in. Fantasy did not cheese him dumbass.
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Steve, when will the PR show up this month? ;p
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Don't feel pressured to give an answer until you're comfortable.
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On September 29 2008 04:46 Nick_54 wrote:
5. Flash- Going 3-0 against the group of death in the OSL was really impressive. Those two games against Yarnc were not. Yes, Yarnc is good at zvt, but champions don't go out in the round of 32. Flash should be able to beat GGPlay, which will set up an interesting series vs Mind or Fantasy.
Forgive me for being too much of a Flash fanboy, but:
Ya real champs don't go out in the Ro32 they go out in the Offline prelims:
Jaedong, Best (only mentioned because he is put higher than flash he didn't even win 1 game in the MSL)
edit: to=/= too. I can't type this was too=/= too.
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On September 29 2008 12:08 wswordsmen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2008 04:46 Nick_54 wrote:
5. Flash- Going 3-0 against the group of death in the OSL was really impressive. Those two games against Yarnc were not. Yes, Yarnc is good at zvt, but champions don't go out in the round of 32. Flash should be able to beat GGPlay, which will set up an interesting series vs Mind or Fantasy. Forgive me for being too much of a Flash fanboy, but: Ya real champs don't go out in the Ro32 they go out in the Offline prelims: Jaedong, Best (only mentioned because he is put higher than flash he didn't even win 1 game in the MSL) edit: to=/= too. I can't type this was too=/= too.
You make a good point and this is very true.
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On September 29 2008 12:08 wswordsmen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2008 04:46 Nick_54 wrote:
5. Flash- Going 3-0 against the group of death in the OSL was really impressive. Those two games against Yarnc were not. Yes, Yarnc is good at zvt, but champions don't go out in the round of 32. Flash should be able to beat GGPlay, which will set up an interesting series vs Mind or Fantasy. Forgive me for being too much of a Flash fanboy, but: Ya real champs don't go out in the Ro32 they go out in the Offline prelims: Jaedong, Best (only mentioned because he is put higher than flash he didn't even win 1 game in the MSL) edit: to=/= too. I can't type this was too=/= too.
stop focusing on stats. it doesn't matter what games you lose, just how u lose them. jaedong was beaten by han in good, close games. flash's games vs yarnc...were not good. flash is not as good as he was during the gsi / ever 2007 osl. especially not tvz and tvt. tvp is arguable. i can't comment on best's offline prelims b/c i don't remember them very well. my point: stop focusing on stats. they don't tell the whole story
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God, I'm glad Gom is sanctioned now so people can stop talking about not counting it, not being legit, etc.
While the Jaedong vs Han games were very good, I was somewhat disappointed by the following results Han showed. I guess it's hard to keep the perennial OSL contender Rock out.
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On September 29 2008 12:08 wswordsmen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2008 04:46 Nick_54 wrote:
5. Flash- Going 3-0 against the group of death in the OSL was really impressive. Those two games against Yarnc were not. Yes, Yarnc is good at zvt, but champions don't go out in the round of 32. Flash should be able to beat GGPlay, which will set up an interesting series vs Mind or Fantasy. Forgive me for being too much of a Flash fanboy, but: Ya real champs don't go out in the Ro32 they go out in the Offline prelims: Jaedong, Best (only mentioned because he is put higher than flash he didn't even win 1 game in the MSL) edit: to=/= too. I can't type this was too=/= too.
yes but...u just can`t put flash above jaedong...i mean c`mon
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On September 29 2008 14:16 brjdrb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2008 12:08 wswordsmen wrote:On September 29 2008 04:46 Nick_54 wrote:
5. Flash- Going 3-0 against the group of death in the OSL was really impressive. Those two games against Yarnc were not. Yes, Yarnc is good at zvt, but champions don't go out in the round of 32. Flash should be able to beat GGPlay, which will set up an interesting series vs Mind or Fantasy. Forgive me for being too much of a Flash fanboy, but: Ya real champs don't go out in the Ro32 they go out in the Offline prelims: Jaedong, Best (only mentioned because he is put higher than flash he didn't even win 1 game in the MSL) edit: to=/= too. I can't type this was too=/= too. stop focusing on stats. it doesn't matter what games you lose, just how u lose them. jaedong was beaten by han in good, close games. flash's games vs yarnc...were not good. flash is not as good as he was during the gsi / ever 2007 osl. especially not tvz and tvt. tvp is arguable. i can't comment on best's offline prelims b/c i don't remember them very well. my point: stop focusing on stats. they don't tell the whole story
I realized this thus the disclaimer (the first line)
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I totally agree with 4-10 on 3 Lions' ranking, well done.
A thing I don't understand is, why most people give that much credit to Jaedong. He won the WCG in a convincing manner, but he is not in the OSL and his MSL games were just embarrasing. He got owned 1,5 times by C/D class players, though he had enough time to practice (remember he didn't make it to the ro16 of the most important star league). Sure, they did rush him, but that doesn't matter at all. Jaedong beat players like Stork and Hwasin by 5-pooling them, though if you count those games as "real wins", you've to count the game vs. Frozean as a "real loss," too. And a well-timed bunker rush requires far more skill than a 5-pool.
Flash on the other hand 3-0'd the OSL group of death, by beating 3 top players. He lost to Yellow[Arnc] twice, which is not great at all, but can happen time after time. Fake Yellow is far better than Jaedong's group mates, he's accepted as an established player and top20.
So if Stork makes it out of his MSL group by winning 2 games in a row I won't see any reason for putting JD higher than #3.
Actually I vote for:
1./2. Stork/Flash (depending on Stork's MSL performance)
3. Jaedong
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You seem to forget that Jaedong kicks butt nonetheless and would own Stork (and probably Flash) any day. Stork's skill is inferior to Jaedong's.
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On September 30 2008 02:54 Polar_Bear wrote:
I totally agree with 4-10 on 3 Lions' ranking, well done.
A thing I don't understand is, why most people give that much credit to Jaedong. He won the WCG in a convincing manner, but he is not in the OSL and his MSL games were just embarrasing. He got owned 1,5 times by C/D class players, though he had enough time to practice (remember he didn't make it to the ro16 of the most important star league). Sure, they did rush him, but that doesn't matter at all. Jaedong beat players like Stork and Hwasin by 5-pooling them, though if you count those games as "real wins", you've to count the game vs. Frozean as a "real loss," too. And a well-timed bunker rush requires far more skill than a 5-pool.
Flash on the other hand 3-0'd the OSL group of death, by beating 3 top players. He lost to Yellow[Arnc] twice, which is not great at all, but can happen time after time. Fake Yellow is far better than Jaedong's group mates, he's accepted as an established player and top20.
So if Stork makes it out of his MSL group by winning 2 games in a row I won't see any reason for putting JD higher than #3.
Actually I vote for:
1./2. Stork/Flash (depending on Stork's MSL performance)
3. Jaedong
Jaedong is #1 mainly on the momentum he got from 3-0ing Flash in the GSL finals.
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On September 30 2008 02:54 Polar_Bear wrote:
Sure, they did rush him, but that doesn't matter at all. Jaedong beat players like Stork and Hwasin by 5-pooling them, though if you count those games as "real wins", you've to count the game vs. Frozean as a "real loss," too.
Jaedong could`ve won the game against stork/hwasin, even without cheese. He proved this.
Also frozean is not that dumb as u are saying. Sure he`s not extremely good but he`s OK, like fakeyellow.
Stork had a very good month. But in term of 'who`s better' JD > stork...and even more clear JD > Flash.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
jaedong is still the best player on earth, if you disagree you are wrong
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yeah this is really good, i'd maybe flip flash and forgg but it's a tough call
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I don't suppose next month's PR will be on time, right? And is Fakesteve still AFKsteve? :D
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On September 29 2008 12:08 wswordsmen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2008 04:46 Nick_54 wrote:
5. Flash- Going 3-0 against the group of death in the OSL was really impressive. Those two games against Yarnc were not. Yes, Yarnc is good at zvt, but champions don't go out in the round of 32. Flash should be able to beat GGPlay, which will set up an interesting series vs Mind or Fantasy. Forgive me for being too much of a Flash fanboy, but: Ya real champs don't go out in the Ro32 they go out in the Offline prelims: Jaedong, Best (only mentioned because he is put higher than flash he didn't even win 1 game in the MSL) edit: to=/= too. I can't type this was too=/= too.
Hmmm Jaedong raped Flash 3 - 0 ?
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I think Nick_54's list was very well done, and I agree with 90% of it, down to the motivations even. Only spot I'm hesitant about would be 10, I would probably have Much there instead. Even though he went out of the OSL, he played some very strong games, and he seems as inform as much ever does.
Mind to me is a mystery, tbh. I actually deem him capable of beating everyone on the list in a series, something I can't even say about people that are on the list. But he is so very inconsistent. He can beat guys like Jaedong straight up in incredible games, and then lose to guys like Zero. It just shouldn't happen with a player of his potential, yet it does, again and again. But when his game-sense is ON, he is a threat to anyone, and a very entertaining player to boot.
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On September 30 2008 22:56 Fwmeh wrote:
I think Nick_54's list was very well done, and I agree with 90% of it, down to the motivations even. Only spot I'm hesitant about would be 10, I would probably have Much there instead. Even though he went out of the OSL, he played some very strong games, and he seems as inform as much ever does.
Mind to me is a mystery, tbh. I actually deem him capable of beating everyone on the list in a series, something I can't even say about people that are on the list. But he is so very inconsistent. He can beat guys like Jaedong straight up in incredible games, and then lose to guys like Zero. It just shouldn't happen with a player of his potential, yet it does, again and again. But when his game-sense is ON, he is a threat to anyone, and a very entertaining player to boot.
yeah me 2, just that i would`ve switched stork and forGG..although 3 lion's rank was good 2...only if he`d switched flash and forGG....
after reading this again...that would be the same rank for both of them ^^
all in all ... we have good ranks :D , let`s see what Steve has prepared for us
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On September 30 2008 02:54 Polar_Bear wrote:
I totally agree with 4-10 on 3 Lions' ranking, well done.
A thing I don't understand is, why most people give that much credit to Jaedong. He won the WCG in a convincing manner, but he is not in the OSL and his MSL games were just embarrasing. He got owned 1,5 times by C/D class players, though he had enough time to practice (remember he didn't make it to the ro16 of the most important star league). Sure, they did rush him, but that doesn't matter at all. Jaedong beat players like Stork and Hwasin by 5-pooling them, though if you count those games as "real wins", you've to count the game vs. Frozean as a "real loss," too. And a well-timed bunker rush requires far more skill than a 5-pool.
Flash on the other hand 3-0'd the OSL group of death, by beating 3 top players. He lost to Yellow[Arnc] twice, which is not great at all, but can happen time after time. Fake Yellow is far better than Jaedong's group mates, he's accepted as an established player and top20.
So if Stork makes it out of his MSL group by winning 2 games in a row I won't see any reason for putting JD higher than #3.
Actually I vote for:
1./2. Stork/Flash (depending on Stork's MSL performance)
3. Jaedong
Maybe you haven't been around TL long enough to know, but Jaedong has been dominating since 2007. You should click his profile and look at how many consecutive wins he earned right after he brought down Bisu from his short-lived domination.
He got 2nd place in last season's MSL and 1st place in this year's WCG. How were his MSL games just embarrasing? He was raping dominant players left and right. He lost the final match to a strong Terran teammate (who probably knew Jaedong's play style more than anyone else) in all Terran map pools. How is that getting dominated?
You should watch his games vs Stork and Hwasin again. He 4 pooled Hwasin in 1 game out of best out of 5. Whats wrong with including 1 cheese game with 2 other straight up dominating games? Terrans (cheesing race) do bunker rush/other cheese so much but they also complain when a zerg finally cheeses.
How does a bunker rush take far more skill than 5 pool? If Terran scouts it with his scv, all he has to do is pull few scv's to block the choke and the 5 pool fails.
Bunker rush, on the other hand, if the drones don't kill the marine, Zerg is screwed.
If drones stop the scv from building the bunker, the Terran just cancels the bunker and zerg loses mining time.
If Zerg cancels the 12 hatch, zerg is behind.
From how I see it, bunker rush is so much easier to pull off and works alot more often. So don't complain you, Terran imba scum.
Also, please look at the record games between Stork and Jaedong. Stork only beat him, beginning of 2007. Every BO5 or single games they had after that one game, Jaedong has won over Stork. So even if you take out the 5 pool win, Jaedong still dominates and rapes Stork in everyway possible.
Flash losing to Luxury is acceptable, but losing to Yarnc is not. Yarnc didnt even cheese him. Frozean cheesed Jaedong.
But I can understand your bias since you seem to be a Terran player from your icon and views.
But hey, if you disagree with my views, listen to a Starcraft veteran who watches tons of SC games and has been around longer than you:
On September 30 2008 10:55 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
jaedong is still the best player on earth, if you disagree you are wrong
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Does anybody else find it ironic that Stork's best power rank is #2?
All hail the King of Silver.
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How is that ironic? I expected it due to his performance.
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Will the games tomorrow be counted for Oktober's power rank ?
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Russian Federation4333 Posts
If HE does not make at least cnbc I'MA CHOKE A BITCH
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even HIM agreed that JD is #1 at the moment ... `nuff said!
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9070 Posts
asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On October 03 2008 05:06 disciple wrote:asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place
Jaedong isn't going to fade away
He's been at the top for so long, I don't understand why some people just can't see it. He has two golds and a silver in the last year or so, and he just won WCG Korea AND the first GOM classic. No one has been anywhere near Jaedong in terms of overall performance during this time.
How can you say he'll just "fade away in 2-3 months"? You don't know anything.
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Poll: When will this month's PR come out?
(Vote): 5th October
(Vote): 10th
(Vote): 15th
(Vote): 30th
(Vote): Probably sometime in November
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On October 03 2008 13:25 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2008 05:06 disciple wrote:asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place Jaedong isn't going to fade away He's been at the top for so long, I don't understand why some people just can't see it. He has two golds and a silver in the last year or so, and he just won WCG Korea AND the first GOM classic. No one has been anywhere near Jaedong in terms of overall performance during this time. How can you say he'll just "fade away in 2-3 months"? You don't know anything.
he's a disciple, thinking isn't part of his job.
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On October 03 2008 13:50 Wolverine wrote:Poll: When will this month's PR come out?( Vote): 5th October ( Vote): 10th ( Vote): 15th ( Vote): 30th ( Vote): Probably sometime in November
I voted for the 10th, yes I believe in miracles, though realistically, it'll come out the 15th and include some of the PL matches and the OSL Ro8 in it. Yeah! Proleague starts up again!
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On October 03 2008 05:06 disciple wrote:asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place
nah..he`s just a LJD hatter
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On October 03 2008 13:25 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2008 05:06 disciple wrote:asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place Jaedong isn't going to fade away He's been at the top for so long, I don't understand why some people just can't see it. He has two golds and a silver in the last year or so, and he just won WCG Korea AND the first GOM classic. No one has been anywhere near Jaedong in terms of overall performance during this time. How can you say he'll just "fade away in 2-3 months"? You don't know anything.
Eh... I'll agree it doesn't look like he's going to fade away anytime soon, but neither did Bisu and look how the past year or so has gone for him. Huge drops in performance are hard to predict.
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Jaedong's ZvT has become kinda shaky, but on the other hand his ZvP has become untouchable. Here's hoping he remains on top for a bit longer, as noone else really deserves it.
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9070 Posts
On October 03 2008 13:53 EvoChamber wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2008 13:25 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 03 2008 05:06 disciple wrote:asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place Jaedong isn't going to fade away He's been at the top for so long, I don't understand why some people just can't see it. He has two golds and a silver in the last year or so, and he just won WCG Korea AND the first GOM classic. No one has been anywhere near Jaedong in terms of overall performance during this time. How can you say he'll just "fade away in 2-3 months"? You don't know anything. he's a disciple, thinking isn't part of his job.
hehe,this was a nice one, and yes, I'm clearly a JD hatter, not because I think he is bad or his skills arent great enough. I don't like him because most of his fanboys, the way they hailed him, when he got hot and won his first OSL, which was a complete joke, but anyway enough for this has been said. The guy has proven himself, he is worthy to be a champion and showed it right after, beating Flash and Kal in the MSL. I sure dont know anything, but its rather logical to think that after this season someone else will occupy the top of the hill, thats the way it is. The competition nowadays is much,much stronger than back in the boxer days, so I dont think JD will be able to hold on for much longer. We will get a clear picture when the PL starts , cause right now, we are speculating about who is going to win the OSL and JD played like what... totally 3 games for the entire season and his balance is 2-1, so until the seasons progress I couldnt say that JD is done,but neither can you define him as the best at the moment,cause simply the guy played 3 games
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On October 03 2008 18:23 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2008 13:53 EvoChamber wrote:On October 03 2008 13:25 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 03 2008 05:06 disciple wrote:asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place Jaedong isn't going to fade away He's been at the top for so long, I don't understand why some people just can't see it. He has two golds and a silver in the last year or so, and he just won WCG Korea AND the first GOM classic. No one has been anywhere near Jaedong in terms of overall performance during this time. How can you say he'll just "fade away in 2-3 months"? You don't know anything. he's a disciple, thinking isn't part of his job. hehe,this was a nice one, and yes, I'm clearly a JD hatter, not because I think he is bad or his skills arent great enough. I don't like him because most of his fanboys, the way they hailed him, when he got hot and won his first OSL, which was a complete joke, but anyway enough for this has been said. The guy has proven himself, he is worthy to be a champion and showed it right after, beating Flash and Kal in the MSL. I sure dont know anything, but its rather logical to think that after this season someone else will occupy the top of the hill, thats the way it is. The competition nowadays is much,much stronger than back in the boxer days, so I dont think JD will be able to hold on for much longer. We will get a clear picture when the PL starts , cause right now, we are speculating about who is going to win the OSL and JD played like what... totally 3 games for the entire season and his balance is 2-1, so until the seasons progress I couldnt say that JD is done,but neither can you define him as the best at the moment,cause simply the guy played 3 games
First of all, his first OSL wasn`t a joke. He was known to have a weak ZvP, and he proved everyone that they were wrong. Royal Road for him was nice, and he maintained his dominance from there on.
Secondly, his ZvT doesn`t seem a little shaky NOWADAYS, it seemed shaky a few months ago... actually i think it looks better now.
I don`t want to say that he will continue to shine for years or so, i think no one can do this, but certainly he`s strong atm
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On October 03 2008 18:23 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2008 13:53 EvoChamber wrote:On October 03 2008 13:25 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 03 2008 05:06 disciple wrote:asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place Jaedong isn't going to fade away He's been at the top for so long, I don't understand why some people just can't see it. He has two golds and a silver in the last year or so, and he just won WCG Korea AND the first GOM classic. No one has been anywhere near Jaedong in terms of overall performance during this time. How can you say he'll just "fade away in 2-3 months"? You don't know anything. he's a disciple, thinking isn't part of his job. hehe,this was a nice one, and yes, I'm clearly a JD hatter, not because I think he is bad or his skills arent great enough. I don't like him because most of his fanboys, the way they hailed him, when he got hot and won his first OSL, which was a complete joke, but anyway enough for this has been said. The guy has proven himself, he is worthy to be a champion and showed it right after, beating Flash and Kal in the MSL. I sure dont know anything, but its rather logical to think that after this season someone else will occupy the top of the hill, thats the way it is. The competition nowadays is much,much stronger than back in the boxer days, so I dont think JD will be able to hold on for much longer. We will get a clear picture when the PL starts , cause right now, we are speculating about who is going to win the OSL and JD played like what... totally 3 games for the entire season and his balance is 2-1, so until the seasons progress I couldnt say that JD is done,but neither can you define him as the best at the moment,cause simply the guy played 3 games
ummm power rank is not calculated by how many times you are on tv
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On October 03 2008 19:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2008 18:23 disciple wrote:On October 03 2008 13:53 EvoChamber wrote:On October 03 2008 13:25 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 03 2008 05:06 disciple wrote:asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place Jaedong isn't going to fade away He's been at the top for so long, I don't understand why some people just can't see it. He has two golds and a silver in the last year or so, and he just won WCG Korea AND the first GOM classic. No one has been anywhere near Jaedong in terms of overall performance during this time. How can you say he'll just "fade away in 2-3 months"? You don't know anything. he's a disciple, thinking isn't part of his job. hehe,this was a nice one, and yes, I'm clearly a JD hatter, not because I think he is bad or his skills arent great enough. I don't like him because most of his fanboys, the way they hailed him, when he got hot and won his first OSL, which was a complete joke, but anyway enough for this has been said. The guy has proven himself, he is worthy to be a champion and showed it right after, beating Flash and Kal in the MSL. I sure dont know anything, but its rather logical to think that after this season someone else will occupy the top of the hill, thats the way it is. The competition nowadays is much,much stronger than back in the boxer days, so I dont think JD will be able to hold on for much longer. We will get a clear picture when the PL starts , cause right now, we are speculating about who is going to win the OSL and JD played like what... totally 3 games for the entire season and his balance is 2-1, so until the seasons progress I couldnt say that JD is done,but neither can you define him as the best at the moment,cause simply the guy played 3 games ummm power rank is not calculated by how many times you are on tv
lol... yeah it is:D
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On October 06 2008 14:24 jodogohoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2008 19:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 03 2008 18:23 disciple wrote:On October 03 2008 13:53 EvoChamber wrote:On October 03 2008 13:25 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 03 2008 05:06 disciple wrote:asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place Jaedong isn't going to fade away He's been at the top for so long, I don't understand why some people just can't see it. He has two golds and a silver in the last year or so, and he just won WCG Korea AND the first GOM classic. No one has been anywhere near Jaedong in terms of overall performance during this time. How can you say he'll just "fade away in 2-3 months"? You don't know anything. he's a disciple, thinking isn't part of his job. hehe,this was a nice one, and yes, I'm clearly a JD hatter, not because I think he is bad or his skills arent great enough. I don't like him because most of his fanboys, the way they hailed him, when he got hot and won his first OSL, which was a complete joke, but anyway enough for this has been said. The guy has proven himself, he is worthy to be a champion and showed it right after, beating Flash and Kal in the MSL. I sure dont know anything, but its rather logical to think that after this season someone else will occupy the top of the hill, thats the way it is. The competition nowadays is much,much stronger than back in the boxer days, so I dont think JD will be able to hold on for much longer. We will get a clear picture when the PL starts , cause right now, we are speculating about who is going to win the OSL and JD played like what... totally 3 games for the entire season and his balance is 2-1, so until the seasons progress I couldnt say that JD is done,but neither can you define him as the best at the moment,cause simply the guy played 3 games ummm power rank is not calculated by how many times you are on tv lol... yeah it is:D
Midas>Jaedong.
Even GGplay>Jaedong.
No, it's not.
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jaedong only appeared on tv like 5 times this month
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9070 Posts
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On October 06 2008 14:24 jodogohoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2008 19:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 03 2008 18:23 disciple wrote:On October 03 2008 13:53 EvoChamber wrote:On October 03 2008 13:25 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 03 2008 05:06 disciple wrote:asked some years ago who will most likely dominate the scene, Boxer answered "for terran- Sea and for protoss it will be Stork". The emperor truly can see the talent, but only with oov he hit the champion-material so far. JD will be considered as #1 till the end of the season, he will be given sucha credit as long as he is the current champ in GOM and MSL finalist. But just in 2-3 months he will fade away, we will get back to the established order of Bisu/Stork ownage and the world will be again a better place Jaedong isn't going to fade away He's been at the top for so long, I don't understand why some people just can't see it. He has two golds and a silver in the last year or so, and he just won WCG Korea AND the first GOM classic. No one has been anywhere near Jaedong in terms of overall performance during this time. How can you say he'll just "fade away in 2-3 months"? You don't know anything. he's a disciple, thinking isn't part of his job. hehe,this was a nice one, and yes, I'm clearly a JD hatter, not because I think he is bad or his skills arent great enough. I don't like him because most of his fanboys, the way they hailed him, when he got hot and won his first OSL, which was a complete joke, but anyway enough for this has been said. The guy has proven himself, he is worthy to be a champion and showed it right after, beating Flash and Kal in the MSL. I sure dont know anything, but its rather logical to think that after this season someone else will occupy the top of the hill, thats the way it is. The competition nowadays is much,much stronger than back in the boxer days, so I dont think JD will be able to hold on for much longer. We will get a clear picture when the PL starts , cause right now, we are speculating about who is going to win the OSL and JD played like what... totally 3 games for the entire season and his balance is 2-1, so until the seasons progress I couldnt say that JD is done,but neither can you define him as the best at the moment,cause simply the guy played 3 games ummm power rank is not calculated by how many times you are on tv lol... yeah it is:D
HEY MISTER I HAVE 29 POSTS AND IM GOING TO TELL YOU HOW YOU MAKE DECISIONS REGARDING ARTICLES YOU WRITE.
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United States10328 Posts
lol FAKESTEVE POWER RANK PLZ
anyway guys let's keep flaming about jaedong, shall we?
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On October 07 2008 11:15 ]343[ wrote:
lol FAKESTEVE POWER RANK PLZ
anyway guys let's keep flaming about jaedong, shall we?
oke, I`ll start: Jaedong>all 
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On October 07 2008 21:22 Jaeden wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2008 11:15 ]343[ wrote:
lol FAKESTEVE POWER RANK PLZ
anyway guys let's keep flaming about jaedong, shall we? oke, I`ll start: Jaedong>all
Cant... argue...
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the thing with jaedong is that he is so fucking fast, so good micro, so good macro, so good multitask.. its not like someone can figure him out like they did with some others.
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Is this month's PR going to come from FakeSteve or DeadVessel?
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I think Best has had a very good month, lots of wins here and there. His recent loss against Jaedong shouldn't count because..not really any Protoss can touch Jaedong's ZvP and he is the #1 player in the world
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On October 08 2008 13:20 Februarys wrote:
I think Best has had a very good month, lots of wins here and there. His recent loss against Jaedong shouldn't count because..not really any Protoss can touch Jaedong's ZvP and he is the #1 player in the world Yeah, but his terrible PVZ in general should most certainly be counted.
Look, there is simply no room for argument. Best's pvz is mediocre, at best.
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If Best recently beat Luxury 3-0 in OSL, he doesn't have terrible PvZ. I'd say his PvZ is at least Mediocore. I see Best as an all-around Protoss. Bisu is known for his PvZ, Stork for his PvT, and Best for his PvP. Even though I like Bisu alot, I'd have to say Best is the strongest looking Protoss, even though Stork has been performing great lately
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Valhalla18444 Posts
he won 3-2 and luxury basically threw the series away
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9070 Posts
On October 09 2008 10:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
he won 3-2 and luxury basically threw the series away
give the boy some credit. I can count the comebacks from 0-2 on the fingers of my hand, Best made something amazing right there, he had the balls to make it happen, the 3rd game was a pure sex, remember when was the last time a toss went for an one base strat against a zerg, Bisu must have been like 15 years old back then
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On October 09 2008 10:56 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2008 10:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
he won 3-2 and luxury basically threw the series away give the boy some credit. I can count the comebacks from 0-2 on the fingers of my hand, Best made something amazing right there, he had the balls to make it happen, the 3rd game was a pure sex, remember when was the last time a toss went for an one base strat against a zerg, Bisu must have been like 15 years old back then
he gets some credit, but that series was lux's to lose. and he did. b/c lux just sucks when it counts (especially against protoss, he even threw a series vs stork). his mechanics are the only thing that makes his pvz as good as it is. not b/c he understands the mu particularly well, but that he just beats it into oblivion with his apm.
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On October 09 2008 11:03 brjdrb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2008 10:56 disciple wrote:On October 09 2008 10:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
he won 3-2 and luxury basically threw the series away give the boy some credit. I can count the comebacks from 0-2 on the fingers of my hand, Best made something amazing right there, he had the balls to make it happen, the 3rd game was a pure sex, remember when was the last time a toss went for an one base strat against a zerg, Bisu must have been like 15 years old back then he gets some credit, but that series was lux's to lose. and he did. b/c lux just sucks when it counts (especially against protoss, he even threw a series vs stork). his mechanics are the only thing that makes his pvz as good as it is. not b/c he understands the mu particularly well, but that he just beats it into oblivion with his apm.
you make it sound like a bad thing that he "beats it into oblivion with his apm"
there are a lot of other players who won using that method and are considered great.
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He played the same way PvZ as he does PvT and that's not gonna cut it if he goes up against a zerg who is adaptive.
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Best's PvZ is terrible, and the only reason it's not evident to everyone all the time is because most of the Zerg he plays against have terrible ZvP. I don't see how anyone can pretend that he has anything more than a basic understanding of the matchup after watching the series against July or the more recent games against Jaedong.
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On October 09 2008 12:00 capek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2008 11:03 brjdrb wrote:On October 09 2008 10:56 disciple wrote:On October 09 2008 10:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
he won 3-2 and luxury basically threw the series away give the boy some credit. I can count the comebacks from 0-2 on the fingers of my hand, Best made something amazing right there, he had the balls to make it happen, the 3rd game was a pure sex, remember when was the last time a toss went for an one base strat against a zerg, Bisu must have been like 15 years old back then he gets some credit, but that series was lux's to lose. and he did. b/c lux just sucks when it counts (especially against protoss, he even threw a series vs stork). his mechanics are the only thing that makes his pvz as good as it is. not b/c he understands the mu particularly well, but that he just beats it into oblivion with his apm. you make it sound like a bad thing that he "beats it into oblivion with his apm" there are a lot of other players who won using that method and are considered great. k dude, if the strength of one match up is based entirely on your capacity to macro, thats a bad fuckin sign. Everyone can macro. Best is better than others, so he has slightly more units to use against a Zerg than the average protoss. Here's the thing though: he uses them deftly. He does not adapt, he does not attack when he should, how he should. He does not read the zerg properly. He therefore loses, and looks like a chump.
Lux threw the series. No credit goes to Best, other than keeping his nerves together. Luxury played terrible, sweat was pouring down his face. He completely collapsed in the series. Before he collapsed, he was embarrassing Best. Just like July did. Just like Jaedong did. Just like any Zerg with half decent vp does, and will do, until he reforms his vz.
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IIRC, Luxury was crying after he threw away the 3rd game, and at that moment I knew Best would win. Luxury choked, and he knew it himself.
The problem is that there is basically only two great ZvP players atm, and one (july) is rather inconsistent. I think Best would beat most zergs, but I do NOT think he is good PvZ, just that most zergs are bad.
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stork > best ( this month )
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You can't just say that most zergs are bad, cause that means either racial imbalance, or Best is better PvZ than their ZvP. Which would lead to Best having good PvZ.
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On October 09 2008 20:17 Pokebunny wrote:
You can't just say that most zergs are bad, cause that means either racial imbalance, or Best is better PvZ than their ZvP. Which would lead to Best having good PvZ.
No, that means that right now, there are only two zergs which are generally considered to have "good" ZvP" If you want to claim "good" PvZ, you have to be even with them, playwise. Best has NOT done so yet. From that follows that best does not have good PvZ.
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Don't worry FakeSteve, I'll save you!!!
October Power Rank:
1) FakeSteve[TPR] - CROTCHMASTER!!!
2) Liquid`Drone - He wins twice! IMO, he would have been rank 1 if the rank 1 weren't ranked number 1, lol.
3) - 4) GTR-2-Go / HnR)Insane -
5) Chill - He owned without even having to play.
6) Plexa - A-move gg no re. Protoss ez.
7) Sp1ralArch1tect - Too bad we didn't get to see you bm-own the noobs, but the DOOMED DROP got in the way.
8) EffOrt - CJ D-Team offracing luckboxed his way to a win. (-_-)
9) GrooVe - He would have been placed higher were it not for his nonsubjectively misplaced depot.
10) yubee - Oh, yeah.
CNBC:
LastRomantic - "FUCK"
DeadVessel - 2nd best doomed drop of the series (guess the 1st. :p )
"Klazart" - LOL
MoltkeWarding
(Remember, this list is subjective, not misplaced. )
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On October 09 2008 20:49 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2008 20:17 Pokebunny wrote:
You can't just say that most zergs are bad, cause that means either racial imbalance, or Best is better PvZ than their ZvP. Which would lead to Best having good PvZ. No, that means that right now, there are only two zergs which are generally considered to have "good" ZvP" If you want to claim "good" PvZ, you have to be even with them, playwise. Best has NOT done so yet. From that follows that best does not have good PvZ.
I think he meant that you should rank the performance relatively rather than a simple absolute ranking. Rankings is all relative: the reason we know that Jaedong/Flash is so much better than Rock is because we have other players in-between their skill level to see the heirachy of skill level
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Jaedong is the man. The man plays ZvP. The man plays ZvZ. The man plays ZvT when he feels like it. The man can dance.
The man is #1.
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Bisu needs some love in the next PR, guessing rank somewhere between 7 and 10. He's not as great as his mini-bonjwa run but its still decent play
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On October 10 2008 15:09 nujabes wrote:
Bisu needs some love in the next PR, guessing rank somewhere between 7 and 10. He's not as great as his mini-bonjwa run but its still decent play
If games from this month are included he will most likely not be in the PR , because of Stork most likely killing him ...
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United States10774 Posts
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It's about time Flash's standing in the PR take notice of his recent performance. That guy has been overrated for the last 2 months.
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On October 11 2008 07:10 xenero wrote:
It's about time Flash's standing in the PR take notice of his recent performance. That guy has been overrated for the last 2 months.
Even as a Flash fan, I would put him 6-9 on the power rank. Maybe closer to 9. He is just sucking balls recently. Hopefully he can continue to help KTF in the proleauge and do well in GOM or I can see him off the power rank in a couple of months.
I just hope Luxury is helping him out TvZ :/
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Bisu's recent pvp stats: 2-2 vs Stork 3-0 vs Much and 1-0 vs Backho
It is much improved and I would definitly consider it a strenght. Training with Best must be paying off.
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9070 Posts
I see Bisu as #6 in the upcoming PR
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my suggestions:
1. jaedong
2. stork
sea should be gone from power rank until he wins an individual league. i've never seen someone being so consistent in failing since mumyung and even he lucked out vs superior players once in a while. the reason he should win a league is because its time to raise the bar 10x higher for him for being on the PR every month and disappointing every single time without exceptions.
fantasy, ggplay and bisu should be high.
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United States10774 Posts
Why Jaedong at #1?
Jaedong and Stork are both in MSL. Stork is in OSL semifinals, Jaedong is not.
1. Stork
2. Jaedong
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On October 12 2008 04:34 OneOther wrote:
Why Jaedong at #1?
Jaedong and Stork are both in MSL. Stork is in OSL semifinals, Jaedong is not.
1. Stork
2. Jaedong
I seem to be the one to repeat this "riding off his momentoum from 3-0ing Flash."
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On October 12 2008 04:34 OneOther wrote:
Why Jaedong at #1?
Jaedong and Stork are both in MSL. Stork is in OSL semifinals, Jaedong is not.
1. Stork
2. Jaedong
Because Jaedong is obviously a better player than Stork? Jaedong > Stork, we know this because last time Jaedong met Stork in matches, he played a 1 sided rape game
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Stork is in a tear, fucking admit it please, beating best will be a hardcore mission for him, but as oneother said, Stork is in OSL semis, Jaedong was not even in OSL, so Stork should be placed higher than Jaedong.
On October 12 2008 00:23 Krigstar wrote:
sea should be gone from power rank until he wins an individual league. i've never seen someone being so consistent in failing since mumyung and even he lucked out vs superior players once in a while. the reason he should win a league is because its time to raise the bar 10x higher for him for being on the PR every month and disappointing every single time without exceptions.
fantasy, ggplay and bisu should be high.
Agreed.
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Jeadong would cream stork anyday of the week with 1 hand binded to his back.
Its a non conteset really, stork has more results for now as jeadong didnt make osl but hes nowere as good as jeadong is imo.
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I say next PR Stork > Jaedong, but November may be a different story.
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9070 Posts
JD> Stork anytime but who the fuck cares. Stork is the race for 2 major titles, it doesnt matter who will beat who in BoX, this is getting more like my dad will beat your dad. JD is starting his season waaay to slow, a bunch of other guys out there are hot as hell and have so much momentum. Players like BeSt and Stork are showing us their skills like 3 time a week, and because of JD is out of OSL we have the honor to watch him like 2 times a month. If I have to make a comparison JD is like Kramnik in chess, he is no where to see in the big battles but all people are saying "ah sure Kramnik is the best, he will own everyone in a match". In fact to be honest I do think JD will beat everyone in best of whatever match atm, but putting him on the top of the charts with his pathetic whats is it like... 3-2 record this season so far, is a bit too much. I mean whats the point of putting him #1 with his record above a guy with a 10 games long winning streak in the major tournaments
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Powerrank is about who the best player is at the moment. Stork is not the best player atm... :/. He would get rolled by Jaedong, Flash, and probably (soon to find out) BeSt. Obviously, it's not ALWAYS a pure skill rank, because its also based off performance, where currently Stork > Flash... but Stork should definitely not be above Jaedong. I don't even like Jaedong too much and I know it would be a horrible one sided rape if he Bo5'ed Stork. Skill has to be taken into account
EDIT: And just to add, I think Stork would need to either 3-0 BeSt and lose in a close OSL final, or just beat BeSt and win the OSL to be powerrank number one above Jaedong.
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Just because Jaedong did not have many chances to play as much games as Stork to prove himself, does not mean he should go lower in ranking. Isn't PR always about who is the top 10 strongest at the current month by their performances up to that month, instead of who simply had the best performance this month
Like I said earlier:
On September 26 2008 13:31 Februarys wrote:
I think doing the PR based on who are the current top 10 best players including their play from current month is much better than simply who performed the best this month without regarding their overall terms of skill. If we go by your method of PR, we could possibly see weak players like Rock as #1 PR, if in that month, he beats other low level players without losing any. Lets say that Jaedong lost 2 games in December to another high level player like Flash, while Rock did not lose any games during December, but he beat players like Backho and Tossgirl. Strictly looking how well they performed that month, its obvious that Rock had a better month than Jaedong. However, would you place Rock above Jaedong for December PR? I dont think so
So by this reasoning, Stork should not be placed above Jaedong, especially because the last time Jaedong met Stork, JD stomped all over him.
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9070 Posts
On October 12 2008 07:18 Vasoline73 wrote:
Powerrank is about who the best player is at the moment. Stork is not the best player atm... :/. He would get rolled by Jaedong, Flash, and probably (soon to find out) BeSt. Obviously, it's not ALWAYS a pure skill rank, because its also based off performance, where currently Stork > Flash... but Stork should definitely not be above Jaedong. I don't even like Jaedong too much and I know it would be a horrible one sided rape if he Bo5'ed Stork. Skill has to be taken into account
EDIT: And just to add, I think Stork would need to either 3-0 BeSt and lose in a close OSL final, or just beat BeSt and win the OSL to be powerrank number one above Jaedong.
This only theory mate, how can you back up this statement when flash is out of msl and osl? Stork is still out there and owning left and right. I've said so many times that if Stork and Bisu manage to advance from the group stages there are getting almost like 100% at least semifinalists. Its so hard to take down those 2 in Bo whatever match. I can say the same for JD, he will destroy the noobs until he meets a powerhouse (maybe Bisu in a possible MSL semi ? )
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On October 12 2008 00:23 Krigstar wrote:
my suggestions:
1. jaedong
2. stork
sea should be gone from power rank until he wins an individual league. i've never seen someone being so consistent in failing since mumyung and even he lucked out vs superior players once in a while. the reason he should win a league is because its time to raise the bar 10x higher for him for being on the PR every month and disappointing every single time without exceptions.
fantasy, ggplay and bisu should be high.
After doing my best to understand your nonsensical logic, I came up with this: since Sea hasn't done well in individual leagues, we should ban him from the power rank. More precisely, since he's failed, and hasn't won any leagues, he isn't allowed onto the power rank. Okay, I think that's the best translation of the bizarre, otherworld nonsense you posted I can manage. My question is this: So why doesn't that apply to stork? Stork keeps "failing" and getting second places. Or how about, say, Luxury. He choked in the semifinals of leagues before, let's kick him off the power rank too!
What the hell has got you so upset about sea? Because you don't like him, you think the bar should be higher for him? Oh, that'll make a great power rank! "Hey, look everybody, this is a monthly list of good players, except for the ones I don't like for various reasons!" Yeah, that sounds fucking fantastic. Seriously though, what did Sea ever do to you? You can tell us. Just show us on the doll where he touched you.
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On October 12 2008 07:26 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2008 07:18 Vasoline73 wrote:
Powerrank is about who the best player is at the moment. Stork is not the best player atm... :/. He would get rolled by Jaedong, Flash, and probably (soon to find out) BeSt. Obviously, it's not ALWAYS a pure skill rank, because its also based off performance, where currently Stork > Flash... but Stork should definitely not be above Jaedong. I don't even like Jaedong too much and I know it would be a horrible one sided rape if he Bo5'ed Stork. Skill has to be taken into account
EDIT: And just to add, I think Stork would need to either 3-0 BeSt and lose in a close OSL final, or just beat BeSt and win the OSL to be powerrank number one above Jaedong. This only theory mate, how can you back up this statement when flash is out of msl and osl? Stork is still out there and owning left and right. I've said so many times that if Stork and Bisu manage to advance from the group stages there are getting almost like 100% at least semifinalists. Its so hard to take down those 2 in Bo whatever match. I can say the same for JD, he will destroy the noobs until he meets a powerhouse (maybe Bisu in a possible MSL semi ? )
Only in theory, of course. But I don't think anyone doubts that Jaedong would smash Stork in a best of series. Could Bisu take down Jaedong in a best of series? In theory yes, but Bisu has lost against Jaedong in the games that count historically. Would Flash demolish Stork? Again, maybe not, but probably... he still has the best TvP and has beaten Stork in 2 finals, one being a 3-0.. Flash pretty much molded his TvP style specifically to counter Stork's builds and tendencies. I think Flash would be a huge favorite Bo5 against Stork.
So, it's hypothetical yeah, but you can't have every player best of 5 over and over to see who is "really the best"... you have to base your assumptions based off previous encounters and how badly they dominate in certain matchups. ZvP Jaedong destroys and TvP Flash is still the best out there. PvZ/PvT Bisu hasn't been so hot recently, and ZvP is Stork's worst MU/he historically has been crushed by Flash. That being said, again, I would put Stork > Flash on next powerrank because it can't all be "who would beat who in BOx series"... some of it is recent preformance and standings.
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i think stork is the favorite in a Bo X vs Flash, atm.
hoooooooooowever, JD > stork, he simply is the better player. Don`t watch only statistics, watch games, and don`t come with the 'look at JD vs frozean', coz shit happen`...i don`t think frozean will stand any chance in a Bo5 vs jaedong, and neither does stork.
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On October 12 2008 04:34 OneOther wrote:
Why Jaedong at #1?
Jaedong and Stork are both in MSL. Stork is in OSL semifinals, Jaedong is not.
1. Stork
2. Jaedong
yeah, and Bisu was in the OSL Ro8 and jaedong wasn`t, maybe he should also be above JD
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imo
#1 JD
#2 Best
#3 stork
#4 ggplay
They have been showing great shape imo.
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9070 Posts
On October 12 2008 08:57 Jaeden wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2008 04:34 OneOther wrote:
Why Jaedong at #1?
Jaedong and Stork are both in MSL. Stork is in OSL semifinals, Jaedong is not.
1. Stork
2. Jaedong yeah, and Bisu was in the OSL Ro8 and jaedong wasn`t, maybe he should also be above JD
bisu shouldnt be above JD...just yet
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On October 12 2008 09:07 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2008 08:57 Jaeden wrote:On October 12 2008 04:34 OneOther wrote:
Why Jaedong at #1?
Jaedong and Stork are both in MSL. Stork is in OSL semifinals, Jaedong is not.
1. Stork
2. Jaedong yeah, and Bisu was in the OSL Ro8 and jaedong wasn`t, maybe he should also be above JD bisu shouldnt be above JD...just yet
I wasn`t talking seriously u know...
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On October 12 2008 07:44 CDRdude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2008 00:23 Krigstar wrote:
my suggestions:
1. jaedong
2. stork
sea should be gone from power rank until he wins an individual league. i've never seen someone being so consistent in failing since mumyung and even he lucked out vs superior players once in a while. the reason he should win a league is because its time to raise the bar 10x higher for him for being on the PR every month and disappointing every single time without exceptions.
fantasy, ggplay and bisu should be high. After doing my best to understand your nonsensical logic, I came up with this: since Sea hasn't done well in individual leagues, we should ban him from the power rank. More precisely, since he's failed, and hasn't won any leagues, he isn't allowed onto the power rank. Okay, I think that's the best translation of the bizarre, otherworld nonsense you posted I can manage. My question is this: So why doesn't that apply to stork? Stork keeps "failing" and getting second places. Or how about, say, Luxury. He choked in the semifinals of leagues before, let's kick him off the power rank too! What the hell has got you so upset about sea? Because you don't like him, you think the bar should be higher for him? Oh, that'll make a great power rank! "Hey, look everybody, this is a monthly list of good players, except for the ones I don't like for various reasons!" Yeah, that sounds fucking fantastic. Seriously though, what did Sea ever do to you? You can tell us. Just show us on the doll where he touched you.
You claim second place is failing when speaking about Stork. I understand your logic to then treat Stork, Luxury and Sea as failures, but to me, reaching second place in numerous tournaments like Stork and show results is more worth than qualifying for tournaments and then getting raped no matter the opponent like Sea. If you treat second place and qualifying as equal accomplishments then how the hell do you make a list?
I mean the reason Sea has been on the rank so many times is because the author said he had potential (sometimes backed up with a strong proleague record). I just question how much potential he can have or for how long that should be taken into account when he pretty much failed more consistently than anyone else in the history of pro-gaming.
My logic is that a player should never be able to have a consistent spot on the rank when he doesn't have any single achievement. Putting up new players in the top 8-10 area that played good the last month is fine by me, but having someone take up a spot in every rank every month without having to do anything to deserve it, is wrong in my opinion.
I like Sea btw and love the attention he has given to the foreign community, but that doesn't change the fact that the power rank authors have overrated him like crazy. I think it's fair to underrate him for a while to even up and force him to make some results like the rest of the top 10 players before considering him again. Putting him on another month for "looking strong" or "having potential" should be a fucking insult to Sea. Let the results speak for him just once is my suggestion.
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I agree. Sea is just a waste on the power rank, again and again he does kinda good in PL, qualifies for a league. So based on those quality of games, hes given the fifth spot. Despite the fact, that we all know, that he is only going to win some proleague games, and qualify. He's going to drop out of the league, again and again and again. Until he actually shows some potential, something that takes him away from the regular masses, something that proves hes going to make it somewhere, hes a waste. It's like putting Rock on the PR constantly. Yeah, he qualifies....and? Sea is much better than Rock, but like other PL monsters [pure for example] he is much better in a limited, unimportant area. And that is it.
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As it stands I think Stork should be number 1.
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United States10774 Posts
On October 12 2008 05:07 Februarys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2008 04:34 OneOther wrote:
Why Jaedong at #1?
Jaedong and Stork are both in MSL. Stork is in OSL semifinals, Jaedong is not.
1. Stork
2. Jaedong Because Jaedong is obviously a better player than Stork? Jaedong > Stork, we know this because last time Jaedong met Stork in matches, he played a 1 sided rape game
Your reasoning is so fucking awful I almost considered not wasting my time arguing against, but I will do it anyway. So, you are basically saying that Jaedong should be placed above Stork regardless how they are performing in individual leagues because he won the last time they played? Stork is in the semifinals of OSL, buddy.
Following your logic, Frozean should be placed above Jaedong since the last two games they played it was a complete one-sided rape. Oh yeah, and forGG should definitely be above JD as well. Remember the 3-0 assrape? Yeah. forGG>Jaedong, clearly.
Guys, this power rank should be solely based on performance, not who we think can beat who. Sure, JD has done well against Stork in the past, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore their performances in the leagues. We never know what's going to happen. Therefore, we need to base the rankings on relative performances.
We can't say Flash would beat Stork in a BO5, either. Flash isn't playing at his best, while Stork clearly is. Just because Flash has beaten him the past two finals, can we make an assumption that results would be the same? Definitely not. Stork has beaten him 3-0 before, too.
Power Ranking = Monthly Performance
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On October 12 2008 09:41 Krigstar wrote:
Let the results speak for him just once is my suggestion.
But it's not all about the results. It's about who is the strongest at a given point in time. Sure, results are a good way of measuring that, but if it was all about results, the power rank is going to look like: Nada, july, iloveoov, boxer, savior, etc.
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United States10774 Posts
On October 12 2008 12:27 CDRdude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2008 09:41 Krigstar wrote:
Let the results speak for him just once is my suggestion. But it's not all about the results. It's about who is the strongest at a given point in time. Sure, results are a good way of measuring that, but if it was all about results, the power rank is going to look like: Nada, july, iloveoov, boxer, savior, etc.
Monthly results.
We can't for sure determine who is better than who. Shit happens, things change. Hence we need to base the MONTHLY rankings on MONTHLY relative performances.
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On October 12 2008 12:17 OneOther wrote:
Your reasoning is so fucking awful I almost considered not wasting my time arguing against, but I will do it anyway. So, you are basically saying that Jaedong should be placed above Stork regardless how they are performing in individual leagues because he won the last time they played? Stork is in the semifinals of OSL, buddy.
Following your logic, Frozean should be placed above Jaedong since the last two games they played it was a complete one-sided rape. Oh yeah, and forGG should definitely be above JD as well. Remember the 3-0 assrape? Yeah. forGG>Jaedong, clearly.
Guys, this power rank should be solely based on performance, not who we think can beat who. Sure, JD has done well against Stork in the past, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore their performances in the leagues. We never know what's going to happen. Therefore, we need to base the rankings on relative performances.
We can't say Flash would beat Stork in a BO5, either. Flash isn't playing at his best, while Stork clearly is. Just because Flash has beaten him the past two finals, can we make an assumption that results would be the same? Definitely not. Stork has beaten him 3-0 before, too.
Power Ranking = Monthly Performance
On October 12 2008 07:24 Februarys wrote:Just because Jaedong did not have many chances to play as much games as Stork to prove himself, does not mean he should go lower in ranking. Isn't PR always about who is the top 10 strongest at the current month by their performances up to that month, instead of who simply had the best performance this month Like I said earlier: Show nested quote +On September 26 2008 13:31 Februarys wrote:
I think doing the PR based on who are the current top 10 best players including their play from current month is much better than simply who performed the best this month without regarding their overall terms of skill. If we go by your method of PR, we could possibly see weak players like Rock as #1 PR, if in that month, he beats other low level players without losing any. Lets say that Jaedong lost 2 games in December to another high level player like Flash, while Rock did not lose any games during December, but he beat players like Backho and Tossgirl. Strictly looking how well they performed that month, its obvious that Rock had a better month than Jaedong. However, would you place Rock above Jaedong for December PR? I dont think so So by this reasoning, Stork should not be placed above Jaedong, especially because the last time Jaedong met Stork, JD stomped all over him.
Yes, Power rank = monthly performance. But not solely on how well you performed on the month alone. If we go by your logic, its possible to place Rock above Jaedong based on my example in the quote. Thats why, on the contrary, your reasoning is the very awful one
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United States10774 Posts
On October 12 2008 13:16 Februarys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2008 12:17 OneOther wrote:
Your reasoning is so fucking awful I almost considered not wasting my time arguing against, but I will do it anyway. So, you are basically saying that Jaedong should be placed above Stork regardless how they are performing in individual leagues because he won the last time they played? Stork is in the semifinals of OSL, buddy.
Following your logic, Frozean should be placed above Jaedong since the last two games they played it was a complete one-sided rape. Oh yeah, and forGG should definitely be above JD as well. Remember the 3-0 assrape? Yeah. forGG>Jaedong, clearly.
Guys, this power rank should be solely based on performance, not who we think can beat who. Sure, JD has done well against Stork in the past, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore their performances in the leagues. We never know what's going to happen. Therefore, we need to base the rankings on relative performances.
We can't say Flash would beat Stork in a BO5, either. Flash isn't playing at his best, while Stork clearly is. Just because Flash has beaten him the past two finals, can we make an assumption that results would be the same? Definitely not. Stork has beaten him 3-0 before, too.
Power Ranking = Monthly Performance Show nested quote +On October 12 2008 07:24 Februarys wrote:Just because Jaedong did not have many chances to play as much games as Stork to prove himself, does not mean he should go lower in ranking. Isn't PR always about who is the top 10 strongest at the current month by their performances up to that month, instead of who simply had the best performance this month Like I said earlier: On September 26 2008 13:31 Februarys wrote:
I think doing the PR based on who are the current top 10 best players including their play from current month is much better than simply who performed the best this month without regarding their overall terms of skill. If we go by your method of PR, we could possibly see weak players like Rock as #1 PR, if in that month, he beats other low level players without losing any. Lets say that Jaedong lost 2 games in December to another high level player like Flash, while Rock did not lose any games during December, but he beat players like Backho and Tossgirl. Strictly looking how well they performed that month, its obvious that Rock had a better month than Jaedong. However, would you place Rock above Jaedong for December PR? I dont think so So by this reasoning, Stork should not be placed above Jaedong, especially because the last time Jaedong met Stork, JD stomped all over him. Yes, Power rank = monthly performance. But not solely on how well you performed on the month alone. If we go by your logic, its possible to place Rock above Jaedong based on my example in the quote. Thats why, on the contrary, your reasoning is the very awful one
Evaluating monthly performances is not a blind process. We need to look at the quality of opponents and the games the players faced. Of course, if Jaedong lost to Flash while Rock beat Backho and Tossgirl, then yeah, there's no reason to put Rock above Jaedong. That's why I called it "relative performance." We look at the results in a bigger context. If Rock beat quality opponents and performed well in tournaments while Jaedong failed to do so, he should absolutely be placed ahead of Jaedong for that month.
Your reasoning, on the other hand, is incredibly shitty. Wanna explain why Jaedong should be ahead of forGG? I mean, forGG completely rapes Jaedong, right?
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I believe that Jaedong is above Stork in the PR rankings because Jaedong simply has the championship spark that he asserts whenever he plays. He's proven he can take Starleagues and in stunning fashion.
Stork, while being a great player, has been presented with many opportunities but has failed to convert any of them into a Championship. Once again, he has appeared in the late stages of a Starleague. However, it's too early to judge if Stork can overcome his mental barrier of 2nd places or if it's just more silver for his collection.
Stork has not proven anything we haven't know before, and the last times he's been in similar situations, he's faltered, while Jaedong has shown he can go the distance.
Also, Jaedong would beat Stork since he's so godly at ZvP though that's not nearly as relevant.
In summary, both of them have been in similar positions in the past, while Jaedong has delivered and Stork has not. If Stork wins the OSL or MSL, or even both (HOLY CRAP), then he undeniably deserves 1st, unless he totally craps it up in Proleague. Until then, this isn't anything new he's showing.
Edit: Is there a PR coming out this month, when if so, and who's gonna write it?
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Russian Federation4333 Posts
OneOther since you're staff you should know that PR is not based purely on monthly preformance.
But lets look at their performances for september anyway.
Stork 3-0. A lucky cheese against Sea. Lucky because Sea was inches away form seeing and scouting it. A failed cheese by Fantasy. A close win over Backho where Stork was sloppy and on several occasions had his probes slaughtered by reavers.
Jaedong 2-1. An amazing 1 hatch muta comeback from a bunkerrush that killed his nat. Gogo did play like shit after the rush however. A loss to Frozean who crippled him with cheese as well. A 9 pool win over Upmagic who couldn't seal off the zerglings.
That is their preformances for the month of september. I will agree that Stork preformed slightly better since the game quality was about even.
We must though consider other factors:
Their overall strength.
Future potential - based on how well they usually preform in leagues and which opponents they will be facing.
Number of leagues they are in.
Jaedong is definitely stronger overall than Stork. He has 2 dominating and 1 slumped matchup. Stork has the same however his vT and vP are not stronger than Jaedong's vZ and vP. Of course Stork's PvZ is nowhere near Jaedong's ZvT. In addition Jaedong would shitrape Stork in any best of sets if they would meet right now.
In terms of their potential, Jaedong has the clear advantage. He faces free in the ro16 whom he will rape. Stork faces ForGG who will be the underdog, however his chances of advancing are not as good as Jaedong's. In the OSL Stork faces Best. I think it's safe to say that Best will win that series. After seeing the games against Backho and Bisu I do not think Stork's PvP is good enough to beat Best's.
The only big advantage Stork has is being in both leagues. Once again, however, his chances in the OSL are not that great.
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United States10774 Posts
Staff doesn't have to do with anything, since I have never done these power rankings and don't plan on it. I do, however, believe that it should be based solely on relative monthly performance.
See, that's where the problem lies. I disagree with you on almost everything you said. You find everything negative about Stork's games while managing to find the bright side on Jaedong's. Not fair. How about that stupid, final game vs Upmagic where Jaedong won with his speedlings, huh?
Furthermore, I do not think Jaedong is overall stronger than Stork. Stork is the best player at PvT, and best at PvP right along with Best. I also believe his PvZ is highly underrated. True, Jaedong's ZvT is better than Stork's PvZ, but that doesn't help your argument. It all depends on perspectives. Stork's strongest matchup, PvT, will help much more in the upcoming rounds of MSL than Jaedong's strongest, ZvZ, will. I do not see how you can say Jaedong has more potential than Stork right now. Stork is in the semifinals of OSL, give me a fucking break. And I consider myself a qualified Protoss player who knows enough about the matchup of PvP to judge that Stork verses Best will be a toss-up. Best is definitely not favored in the match; it's dead even. How much do you know about PvP? I am guessing not too much, considering you think it will be a free win for Best. Stork's latest PvPs have been truly impressing. Like I said, Jaedong does not have more potential to win when the other guy is already in the semis. Lastly, I think that forGG's chance against Stork is about equal to Free's chances against Jaedong. They are both pretty big underdogs.
The big advantage is that Stork is in semifinals, and has a fair chance of winning it. Jaedong? He got eliminated a long time ago. This alone is enough to qualify Stork as #1.
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ohh boy , 
how about that, it`s the september power rank.
in september bisu were in both leagues, and JD was only in MSL
should bisu be put above JD ? -no
"quality of opponents"
JD was RUSHED by frozean...everyone could win with rush. JD was faaaaar behind after frozean denied his nat. He only won vs go.go because gogo sucks. If stork would FE against someone who would rush him...what would be the result ?
everyone loses from time to time...no matter how gosu they are
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Russian Federation4333 Posts
On October 12 2008 15:31 OneOther wrote:
I do, however, believe that it should be based solely on relative monthly performance.
Opinion noted but that is not the way the PR works.
On October 12 2008 15:31 OneOther wrote:
See, that's where the problem lies. I disagree with you on almost everything you said. You find everything negative about Stork's games while managing to find the bright side on Jaedong's. Not fair. How about that stupid, final game vs Upmagic where Jaedong won with his speedlings, huh?
Maybe my wording was biased but please read:
On October 12 2008 14:12 TheTyranid wrote:
That is their preformances for the month of september. I will agree that Stork preformed slightly better since the game quality was about even.
considering you think it will be a free win for Best.
The hell? I did not say it would be a "free win" for Best, I just said he is the clear favourite. Please agree that Stork played a close series with Bisu where he has made mistakes that Best would not forgive.
On October 12 2008 15:31 OneOther wrote:
I think that forGG's chance against Stork is about equal to Free's chances against Jaedong. They are both pretty big underdogs.
Seriously? You think Free has as much chance against Jaedong as ForGG against Stork? I'm not even arguing this point.
Your argument is valid even though you are biased toward Stork, however, this argument is similar to the argument people had for Best being #1 when he was raping EVER OSL and summer Proleague. It was the month of june I think. Best had a better record that month than both Jaedong and Flash and people said that since he was on a sharp rise he should be above JD and Flash. He had afterall a better month. The other side argued that Best was inexperienced and his chances of failing was higher then that of Jaedong. Also Jaedong was the overall stronger player. Here we have a similar situation. Stork is on the sharp rise and has a better month than Jaedong. However history tells us that Stork's dominant run will be cut short by a choke in the latter stages of the tournament whereas Jaedong will emerge the champion. This is why Jaedong has more potential than Stork.
This month Jaedong should still be #1. Stork and Best will complete the top 3. Next month the OSL and MSL will progress and a more clear picture will be drawn for us. If Stork clearly plays better than Jaedong in october as well I will concede my argument.
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United States10774 Posts
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oneother - sample size - you can only discern so much information from so many games. monthly power ranks are only about who is playing strongest, so not only must they factor results over the past month, they must factor in the quality of the games, and then because it will always be a small sample size, regress. or in other words, use the new data in context with the player's history. yes, stork has been more impressive this month, but the difference in results are marginal, over very few games. looking at the quality of the jaedong games, all you can discern is that jaedong went 1-1 against bunker rushes and 1-0 with a rush of his own. i'd call this "bad data."
fact is, jaedong is probably around an 80% vZ, 75% vP, and his vT is probably around 60%, slightly lower than his 61.6% lifetime. Stork, though strong, is nowhere near the autowin in vZ or vP, and though his vT is exceptional, he probably doesn't even have that large of an edge over jaedong in the matchup at 65.5% lifetime himself.
second when you look at player versus player matchups, jaedong is likely a favorite against every single player in the world including stork (except possibly forGG), whereas Stork cannot be considered a favorite over Jaedong or Best.
i don't think there is any way to put stork over jaedong in the power rank unless jaedong slumps, or stork is able to beat jaedong in a series.
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On October 12 2008 17:48 traced wrote:
second when you look at player versus player matchups, jaedong is likely a favorite against every single player in the world including stork (except possibly forGG), whereas Stork cannot be considered a favorite over Jaedong or Best.
exactly, and imo, July would also be a favorite in a match against stork. In fact, any Z with a strong ZvP could beat stork.
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9070 Posts
Like OneOther said this is a monthly based ranking, but in the history of the PR you can clearly see that champions are given much more credit than the current hot players, thats why savior was hanging on for so long in it, even after bisu 3-0ed him, savior was still #1 and bisu was #2. With that being said you can clearly see how bad mishandled was JD by the maker of the PR after his MSL final vs forGG. I'm just joking ofc JD will keep his #1 just because we accept his skills as superior and because of that any theories about how could beat any other hot player below him become suddenly a fact. If you isolate the fact that JD is .. JD and take a look at his performance as a guy who is not in the OSL and managed to advance from his MSL group by 2-1. Well if you take the legend killer this way, fuck you very much but wont even deserve to be in the PR. Some seasons ago when JangBi reached the SEMIFINAL of MSL he was NOT in the PR in the month he did it. So basically what I wanna say is that JD as number 1 is completely ruining the idea of the monthly PR. But as champ he deserves sucha credit, PR actually doesnt mean anything to him, all other guys can work their ass, be in beastly winning streak , but he will keep his top spot with his 4-3 or whatsoever record this month
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United States10774 Posts
Fuck. Let's end the discussion with Tyranid's post. Now we got a guy suggesting the TLPD should be used to determine the power rankings. Of course the sample size is small. But THAT SMALL SIZED SAMPLE MAKES A DIFFERENCE IN HOW THE PLAYERS PERFORM IN LEAGUES. If Stork went 2-1 vs Bisu and advances to the OSL semis, it SHOULD play a significant role in the upcoming power rankings. It's only three games, but it makes a huge difference. I don't care if Jaedong went 2-3 or something verses cannon rushes and bunker all ins. Let's say he gets eliminated from whatever league while player B does not, then player B automatically earns PR points.
Favorites in player verses player matchups...I have been talking about the flaws in that method for a while now.
i don't think there is any way to put stork over jaedong in the power rank unless jaedong slumps, or stork is able to beat jaedong in a series.
Are you a mindless Jaedong fanboy or just...dumb? Are you actually saying that Jaedong should be #1 even if Stork beats BeSt and goes on to win the OSL?
Here's a nice example. Let's just imagine that we were doing a power ranking for NBA. Portland Blazers just won the championship. On the other hand, the Boston Celtics, who have been ranked #1 throughout the entire regular season, got eliminated in the earlier playoff rounds by some other team. Don't you agree that the Blazers should be #1 on the Power Ranking?
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United States10774 Posts
On October 12 2008 18:10 Jaeden wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2008 17:48 traced wrote:
second when you look at player versus player matchups, jaedong is likely a favorite against every single player in the world including stork (except possibly forGG), whereas Stork cannot be considered a favorite over Jaedong or Best.
exactly, and imo, July would also be a favorite in a match against stork. In fact, any Z with a strong ZvP could beat stork.
That's ridiculous. This is a monthly Power Rankings, not "speculate who is favored over who." The power ranking would look absolutely fucked up if we took all those "favorites" into account. Are you actually saying that forGG should be placed at #1 above Jaedong and Stork because he manhandled Jaedong? Because I would speculate that he IS, after all, a favorite against Jaedong.
Performance, please.
EDIT: Good post, disciple.
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I nominate OneOther to do the power ranks, or anyone else - are there any other nominations/volunteers? And for the power ranks to come out on the 1st of each month. Waiting for FakeSteve is a pain
Poll: Do you agree?
(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
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On October 12 2008 18:19 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2008 18:10 Jaeden wrote:On October 12 2008 17:48 traced wrote:
second when you look at player versus player matchups, jaedong is likely a favorite against every single player in the world including stork (except possibly forGG), whereas Stork cannot be considered a favorite over Jaedong or Best.
exactly, and imo, July would also be a favorite in a match against stork. In fact, any Z with a strong ZvP could beat stork. That's ridiculous. This is a monthly Power Rankings, not "speculate who is favored over who." The power ranking would look absolutely fucked up if we took all those "favorites" into account. Are you actually saying that forGG should be placed at #1 above Jaedong and Stork because he manhandled Jaedong? Because I would speculate that he IS, after all, a favorite against Jaedong. Performance, please. EDIT: Good post, disciple.
actually...ForGG was #1 in the PR just because he beat JD, if he would`ve lost , he wouldn`t be #1.
...but I`m not sayin` that...If u read my other posts i`ve just said that the statistics aren`t good for determining who`s better ; and neither the fact that stork is in both OSL and MSL and JD is only in the MSL.
Like I`ve said before, this is september's PR. In september Bisu was in MSL and in OSL Ro8. And he shouldn`t be above JD.
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There was a lot of fight going on, everybody is arguing about who is the better player. I will tell my opinion based on WHATCHING this players play and stats, not only siting down to a bounch of statistics and produce some conclusions, what apparently many people do.
Let's begin with a comparison between JD and Stork.
In general:
Stork: He's in both OSL and MSL, he's on a winning streak against T, he's a strong PvP player, and a mediocre PvZ.
JD: He did not qualify to the OSL, he's in the MSL. He is the very best ZvZ and ZvP around, and a strong but not unshakeable ZvT.
Watching them play. 1. Mirror
Jd: confident play, very rarely he loses his concentration (like against fake yellow) and drops a single game, but he is the clear favorite against any Z.
Stork: well he's not the best PvP but certainly one of the best. he has 2 losses this month. One against Kal. Well if you watched the game against Kal, you could see stork sending his shuttle with 2 reavers directly to 20 goons, after that losing 2 more healty reavers to 2 reavershots, while he had a shuttle. And one against Bisu. Well it wasnt up to him to not lose the 3th game. Bisu was on a clear lead, but he thrown it away, sending shuttle filled with reavers to the goons (like stork against Kal). So a bit shaky, but really strong PvP.
All in all, JD's mirror is better. JD>Stork
2. vs T
JD: he dropped a game to frozean and won 3 other ZvT. Well did you all watch frozean vs JD? It wasn't really his fault, frozean played an excelent game, he bunker rushed, so he gained an early lead and kept it by excelent micro, and attacked exactly in the right second, before the defilers were functional.
Stork: he's on a streak, that's for sure. it could be said that he had luck (Sea scouted for proxy and missed barely, luck scarabs after that, Fantasy puling out an awful cheese etc), but let's not be bad, he's damn good in this MU, maybe better than JD's.
Stork>JD
3. ZvP, PvZ
JD: not much to say, he slaughtered every toss in the past, everywhere (stork, best, free, much etc) nobody stood a chanse against him for a long time.
Stork: this is his weakness, defineatly. however he isnt doing bad, his reaver corsair play is quite admirable sometimes, he can beat good players like Luxury, but also can lose to upcoming players like type-b, and he's clearly underdog against JD and most probably against July too.
JD>>Stork
That's how i see the things right now, let's look in the future a bit.
Stork: OSL semifinals against Best, really tough one, if he can bring his A game he may even take it in a close seiries, but if he plays like he did against Kal, or even against Bisu he gonna be 3-0ed, Best does not tolerate mistakes. MSL, another tough opponent Forgg, and this time he gonna be prepared, the former MSL champion is no push-over by any means, Stork may have the upper hand, but he may also lose it. WCG well it's gonna be next month, right? There he will face JD once again for sure)
JD: MSL, well free, he's a decent player, but not a big threat, it's JD's siries to loose. WCG, yeah, i already mantioned.
All in all JD is better right now, he was better untill now, and most probably he will be the player with more achievments.
p.s.: Sorry for writing so much, sorry if i had too many mistakes, english is my 3th language
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On October 12 2008 21:13 Geo.Rion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There was a lot of fight going on, everybody is arguing about who is the better player. I will tell my opinion based on WHATCHING this players play and stats, not only siting down to a bounch of statistics and produce some conclusions, what apparently many people do.
Let's begin with a comparison between JD and Stork.
In general:
Stork: He's in both OSL and MSL, he's on a winning streak against T, he's a strong PvP player, and a mediocre PvZ.
JD: He did not qualify to the OSL, he's in the MSL. He is the very best ZvZ and ZvP around, and a strong but not unshakeable ZvT.
Watching them play. 1. Mirror
Jd: confident play, very rarely he loses his concentration (like against fake yellow) and drops a single game, but he is the clear favorite against any Z.
Stork: well he's not the best PvP but certainly one of the best. he has 2 losses this month. One against Kal. Well if you watched the game against Kal, you could see stork sending his shuttle with 2 reavers directly to 20 goons, after that losing 2 more healty reavers to 2 reavershots, while he had a shuttle. And one against Bisu. Well it wasnt up to him to not lose the 3th game. Bisu was on a clear lead, but he thrown it away, sending shuttle filled with reavers to the goons (like stork against Kal). So a bit shaky, but really strong PvP.
All in all, JD's mirror is better. JD>Stork
2. vs T
JD: he dropped a game to frozean and won 3 other ZvT. Well did you all watch frozean vs JD? It wasn't really his fault, frozean played an excelent game, he bunker rushed, so he gained an early lead and kept it by excelent micro, and attacked exactly in the right second, before the defilers were functional.
Stork: he's on a streak, that's for sure. it could be said that he had luck (Sea scouted for proxy and missed barely, luck scarabs after that, Fantasy puling out an awful cheese etc), but let's not be bad, he's damn good in this MU, maybe better than JD's.
Stork>JD
3. ZvP, PvZ
JD: not much to say, he slaughtered every toss in the past, everywhere (stork, best, free, much etc) nobody stood a chanse against him for a long time.
Stork: this is his weakness, defineatly. however he isnt doing bad, his reaver corsair play is quite admirable sometimes, he can beat good players like Luxury, but also can lose to upcoming players like type-b, and he's clearly underdog against JD and most probably against July too.
JD>>Stork
That's how i see the things right now, let's look in the future a bit.
Stork: OSL semifinals against Best, really tough one, if he can bring his A game he may even take it in a close seiries, but if he plays like he did against Kal, or even against Bisu he gonna be 3-0ed, Best does not tolerate mistakes. MSL, another tough opponent Forgg, and this time he gonna be prepared, the former MSL champion is no push-over by any means, Stork may have the upper hand, but he may also lose it. WCG well it's gonna be next month, right? There he will face JD once again for sure)
JD: MSL, well free, he's a decent player, but not a big threat, it's JD's siries to loose. WCG, yeah, i already mantioned.
All in all JD is better right now, he was better untill now, and most probably he will be the player with more achievments.
p.s.: Sorry for writing so much, sorry if i had too many mistakes, english is my 3th language
Nice first post. Broke down the differences really well.
In my (completely biased) opinion, Stork should never be #1 powerrank until he wins a title. He is just born to be #2.
edit: also GGplay definitely needs a spot.
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9070 Posts
well my PR is
1.Stork - he is playing almost flawless for some time now and even if he got a bit luck against Bisu in their OSL encounter, there was no player who could match his performance in the last weeks.
2. JD - playing under 10 games for 2 months and losing like 3-4 of them isnt enough even for champion from his caliber. Yes he played not so many games, but if he won them all his #1 would be out of question. His ability of winning BoX matches should be solid and if he manages to progress far in the tournaments he is into, he will retake his top place, but for now a couple of ZvT losses and a ZvZ game dropped is a bit to much to be forgiven. His win against BeSt was impressive but its not enough
3. BeSt - he is beating his opponents pretty badly in OSL and his first PL games were impressive as well. The OSL title is just whats missing for him. The game against JD was pain to watch, but as long as the oovtoss doesnt have to play against the top zerg he will be fine.
4. FBH - the master of ceremonies made huge effort to step up his TvP and actually achieved results that, no one predicted. He took down two protoss powerhouses. But even more impressive he took a win against the player below him in my PR right the day after.
5. Flash - the Ultimate Weapon must get himself 2gather. GGplay was a beatable opponent, but Flash played bad, made mistakes and lost. He has a shot to save his season in GOM and if he manage to back this up with a descent PL performance he will be back on the top of the hill.
6. ForGG - just like JD, the current MSL champ wasnt been too much busy lately, all we can say is that he got beaten in Blizzcon but took a win against the shaky TvT specialist Canata. Until MSL and GOM progress and we get a clear picture I have no reason to put him somewhere else in the PR
7. Bisu - Welcome back Mr. Anderson. Thou he lost against Stork, he was that close to reach his 3rd OSL semifinal. In the last two games against his arch-rival and in the day after vs much and backho, Bisu showed the results of his PvP preparation. If he takes his next opponents as serious as he took Stork he might improve further and bring back his game to S class level which brought him 2 MSL titles...will see.
8. fantasy- the possible royal roader is coming close the achieving the dream of every SC player- to win the most prestigious tournament in the scene, and to do it from his first shot. However his team is expecting far more from him in the PL, if he wants to establish himself as SKT's new ace he must start rolling his opponents in the PL.
9. GGplay- this guy is gaining momentum and showed all that he is in the OSL semi for a reason. Some months ago his games were pain to watch especially his ZvZ but now he must get some credit for making it to the semis of OSL.
10. plexa - thanks a lot for the awesome articles and coverage from blizzcon. you are a beast man ! thumbs up !
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On October 13 2008 02:04 disciple wrote:
well my PR is
1.Stork - he is playing almost flawless for some time now and even if he got a bit luck against Bisu in their OSL encounter, there was no player who could match his performance in the last weeks.
2. JD - playing under 10 games for 2 months and losing like 3-4 of them isnt enough even for champion from his caliber. Yes he played not so many games, but if he won them all his #1 would be out of question. His ability of winning BoX matches should be solid and if he manages to progress far in the tournaments he is into, he will retake his top place, but for now a couple of ZvT losses and a ZvZ game dropped is a bit to much to be forgiven. His win against BeSt was impressive but its not enough
3. BeSt - he is beating his opponents pretty badly in OSL and his first PL games were impressive as well. The OSL title is just whats missing for him. The game against JD was pain to watch, but as long as the oovtoss doesnt have to play against the top zerg he will be fine.
4. FBH - the master of ceremonies made huge effort to step up his TvP and actually achieved results that, no one predicted. He took down two protoss powerhouses. But even more impressive he took a win against the player below him in my PR right the day after.
5. Flash - the Ultimate Weapon must get himself 2gather. GGplay was a beatable opponent, but Flash played bad, made mistakes and lost. He has a shot to save his season in GOM and if he manage to back this up with a descent PL performance he will be back on the top of the hill.
6. ForGG - just like JD, the current MSL champ wasnt been too much busy lately, all we can say is that he got beaten in Blizzcon but took a win against the shaky TvT specialist Canata. Until MSL and GOM progress and we get a clear picture I have no reason to put him somewhere else in the PR
7. Bisu - Welcome back Mr. Anderson. Thou he lost against Stork, he was that close to reach his 3rd OSL semifinal. In the last two games against his arch-rival and in the day after vs much and backho, Bisu showed the results of his PvP preparation. If he takes his next opponents as serious as he took Stork he might improve further and bring back his game to S class level which brought him 2 MSL titles...will see.
8. fantasy- the possible royal roader is coming close the achieving the dream of every SC player- to win the most prestigious tournament in the scene, and to do it from his first shot. However his team is expecting far more from him in the PL, if he wants to establish himself as SKT's new ace he must start rolling his opponents in the PL.
9. GGplay- this guy is gaining momentum and showed all that he is in the OSL semi for a reason. Some months ago his games were pain to watch especially his ZvZ but now he must get some credit for making it to the semis of OSL.
10. plexa - thanks a lot for the awesome articles and coverage from blizzcon. you are a beast man ! thumbs up !
About JD and Stork i just wrote.
FBH as 4th for beating 2 tosses, who most probably practiced pvp whole week? You must be joking.
Flash as 5th? He's out of both leagues 2 mediocre zergs kicked him out, dropped a game in the PL to tester (from estro), so what did he achieve recently? Rolled over Bul t, rock, sangho (B-C category tosses) and all-in proxy raxed against Bisu, and lost all the matches that counted. Yeah, Forgg played just a few games but at least he won them in a convincing style, why put him behind Flash and FBH, he would beat both of them right now.
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United States10774 Posts
Geo.Rion
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100% based on speculation and bias.
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9070 Posts
as you said flash is out from MSL and OSL, can you put him in top 3 for not being in both star leagues ? actually I dont get your point... you think that flash must be out of PR or his place is above #5? and as forGG he has a biiig hill to climb with stork against him in the next round of MSL and I doubt he would take down FBH as well. It doesnt matter how much FBH practiced his TvP. For a player with pathetic record in this MU he made a miracle by taking down those two tosses and that is quite notable
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9070 Posts
I might be wrong but stork was number 1 in the PR an year ago, I will check it out
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On October 13 2008 02:32 OneOther wrote:
Geo.Rion
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100% based on speculation and bias.
You know, talking about bias, i really tried my best to be as objective as I can, to underline Stork's and JD's assets and weaknesses so did several people over here, you just ignore all of us and say speculation, bias, Stork is better, he's in both leauges, no matter he would lose to JD in boX he's the nr.1 right now. Since english isn't my first language i may misunderstand the word bias, to me it means talking about stg from a single point of view, ignoring all the others, being narrow-minded, having a one sided opinion. I read my post once again, read several of yours and i really feel that it's not me who posts based on bias.
I dont know if you even read my post or just answered, or if you are watching this games we are talking about, or you just go to stats.
I recommend once again the game against Kal or the siries against Bisuor even against backho, than whatch some of Best's PvP, after that come back and say Stork gonna beat Best.
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On October 13 2008 02:34 disciple wrote:
as you said flash is out from MSL and OSL, can you put him in top 3 for not being in both star leagues ? actually I dont get your point... you think that flash must be out of PR or his place is above #5? and as forGG he has a biiig hill to climb with stork against him in the next round of MSL and I doubt he would take down FBH as well. It doesnt matter how much FBH practiced his TvP. For a player with pathetic record in this MU he made a miracle by taking down those two tosses and that is quite notable
Quite notable, yes, putting instantly on 4th place maybe is a bit too much, don t you think?
About flash, i can put him even in the top3, if he starts to kick asses in PL and if he does very well in the GOM, he has the potential to do that, despite dropping from the starleauges. But right now, he got kicked out from both leauges, that means 4 consecutive losses, and this fact screws his reputation pretty badly(not talking about losing to tester). he plays like crap, to be honest, even though he clearly has the potential to own.
About the Forgg vs Stork, well, let's see what happens, let's see, I woudnt hury to call out the victor just yet
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Don't be too quick about considering ForGG an underdog. I think,he is the best terran on the field right now,and he was considered underdog against Flash and Jd too,and he brutally raped them. I think Forgg is underrated right now, and even now everybody is talking about Flash as the best terran. Has everybody forgotten about Forgg? One other thing. Forgg has established more in his young career than Stork up to this date. He has already won a starleague. Stork never won a starleague,and if you ask me,I say he will choke again. I even think Best is more impressive this month. He has 8-1 this month,losing to,IMO the best player there is,Jd,and we can't penalize Jaedong and Best for something that happened two months before(not qualifying for the Osl and Msl respectively). Best had dominating victories against tough opponents,while Stork had lucky and cheesy wins over not so tough players,except Bisu and Fantasy.
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And on an other note,you should notice that up to date,there were no no1 ranked people on the list,who had never won a Starleague. If Storks wins Msl or Osl or both,he should definitely be no1.
And about Jd losing to Frozean, Frozean is underrated IMO,and he also beat Stork. Not in a match,which counts,but it was televised,and he won. He also knocked out Luxury from MSL,the other best Zerg player,even now IMO despite being knocked out of both leagues. Z v Z is a luckfest,and Jd made mistakes too,that happens to anybody.
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Darth Peter, there is an edit button.
I am all for considering ForGG an elite player, because this only adds weight to Savior's 2-0 beat down of him in the Blizzcon tourney.
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United States10774 Posts
On October 13 2008 02:57 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2008 02:32 OneOther wrote:
Geo.Rion
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100% based on speculation and bias. You know, talking about bias, i really tried my best to be as objective as I can, to underline Stork's and JD's assets and weaknesses so did several people over here, you just ignore all of us and say speculation, bias, Stork is better, he's in both leauges, no matter he would lose to JD in boX he's the nr.1 right now. Since english isn't my first language i may misunderstand the word bias, to me it means talking about stg from a single point of view, ignoring all the others, being narrow-minded, having a one sided opinion. I read my post once again, read several of yours and i really feel that it's not me who posts based on bias. I dont know if you even read my post or just answered, or if you are watching this games we are talking about, or you just go to stats. I recommend once again the game against Kal or the siries against Bisuor even against backho, than whatch some of Best's PvP, after that come back and say Stork gonna beat Best.
Actually I have been providing valid arguments, and I think your post was full of shit.
About JD and Stork i just wrote.
FBH as 4th for beating 2 tosses, who most probably practiced pvp whole week? You must be joking.
Flash as 5th? He's out of both leagues 2 mediocre zergs kicked him out, dropped a game in the PL to tester (from estro), so what did he achieve recently? Rolled over Bul t, rock, sangho (B-C category tosses) and all-in proxy raxed against Bisu, and lost all the matches that counted. Yeah, Forgg played just a few games but at least he won them in a convincing style, why put him behind Flash and FBH, he would beat both of them right now.
You are taking credit away from FireBatHero after he just took down Bisu and Much in his worst matchup TvP. Your reason is that those guys "practiced PvP the whole week." Hundred percent speculation. This does not qualify as a legitimate reason to belittle what FBH was able to do.
Yeah, Flash dropped a game to Tester in ProLeague but who doesn't ever drop a game to inferior players in PL? Shit happens dude. This, again, should not be a reason to drop Flash below the 5th ranking. Mediocre Zergs, hmm. You consider Yellow[arnc] and GGplay mediocre? They are definitely one of the best Zergs out there these days along with Jaedong and Luxury. They have the potential to beat any players on a good day. Look how fucking biased you are, finding everything bad about Flash's games. Give me any player, and I can do the same thing. "This guy sucks. He beat player A, who's mediocre at best, with some cheese and won against player B because he sucks dick." What about Flash's games against July? vs Much?
I don't see how you can possibly put forGG ahead of Flash. Your only backup for that is..."forGG would beat him right now." This is called speculation, and should not be a determining factor in the power rankings.
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"I don't see how you can possibly put forGG ahead of Flash. Your only backup for that is..."forGG would beat him right now." This is called speculation, and should not be a determining factor in the power rankings."
Yes,ForGG played few games this month,but he won All of them,against top quality opponents.(Blizzcon is not taken into account) He beat 3 Top Terrans. Yeah,shit happens,but it happens too often to Flash these days,and imo,it can't be called bad luck anymore,it's lack of skill. Nothing takes away,that Flash 3-0d the group of death in the osl,but his recent plays lacks of the dominance he once held. And somebody please give the credit to the reigning Msl champion that he deserves.
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9070 Posts
well tell me then who made something more significant from the ppl below FBH in my rank. ForGG? we've seen almost nothing from him... I wont put Flash even into consideration, he screwed the things pretty badly. Fantasy is strong but he must improve in PL, he has no other competitions to think about besides OSL, he must really contribute to SKTs performance this season, so far he is disappointing. If we make the things based on theoretical thoughts I will put Bisu in top 3 with ez. He improved a lot in his PvP just in a couple of weeks because of his solid preparation. In theory I cant find any reason why he wouldnt improve his PvT and PvZ as well in the future. You see, all you said about JD and Stork is maybe absolutely right in general. But the performance in every month, the achievements in every match are quite specific case. Once again we are talking about monthly PR right here. If we start speaking "in general" it will get quite messy. Thou he got through a slump Bisu is in general a top 3 player. The slump doesnt change anything, cause this is a normal state of each progamers carrier, JD will slump one day for sure. Will your hope in him fade away when it happens, or you will keep it with the comparison of his MU stats with someone else. The class is smth everlasting, but the current shape is something different. And to make a statement about the current shape of a player all you have to make is to take a look at his stats in exact point of time, in our case its a month (again, this is monthly PR). JD is classy, he is a champ, but looking at his performance for the last months or so and comparing all he made with what stork made tell us clearly that Stork is in a better shape
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On October 13 2008 03:29 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2008 02:57 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 13 2008 02:32 OneOther wrote:
Geo.Rion
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100% based on speculation and bias. You know, talking about bias, i really tried my best to be as objective as I can, to underline Stork's and JD's assets and weaknesses so did several people over here, you just ignore all of us and say speculation, bias, Stork is better, he's in both leauges, no matter he would lose to JD in boX he's the nr.1 right now. Since english isn't my first language i may misunderstand the word bias, to me it means talking about stg from a single point of view, ignoring all the others, being narrow-minded, having a one sided opinion. I read my post once again, read several of yours and i really feel that it's not me who posts based on bias. I dont know if you even read my post or just answered, or if you are watching this games we are talking about, or you just go to stats. I recommend once again the game against Kal or the siries against Bisuor even against backho, than whatch some of Best's PvP, after that come back and say Stork gonna beat Best. Actually I have been providing valid arguments, and I think your post was full of shit. Show nested quote +
About JD and Stork i just wrote.
FBH as 4th for beating 2 tosses, who most probably practiced pvp whole week? You must be joking.
Flash as 5th? He's out of both leagues 2 mediocre zergs kicked him out, dropped a game in the PL to tester (from estro), so what did he achieve recently? Rolled over Bul t, rock, sangho (B-C category tosses) and all-in proxy raxed against Bisu, and lost all the matches that counted. Yeah, Forgg played just a few games but at least he won them in a convincing style, why put him behind Flash and FBH, he would beat both of them right now.
You are taking credit away from FireBatHero after he just took down Bisu and Much in his worst matchup TvP. Your reason is that those guys "practiced PvP the whole week." Hundred percent speculation. This does not qualify as a legitimate reason to belittle what FBH was able to do. Yeah, Flash dropped a game to Tester in ProLeague but who doesn't ever drop a game to inferior players in PL? Shit happens dude. This, again, should not be a reason to drop Flash below the 5th ranking. Mediocre Zergs, hmm. You consider Yellow[arnc] and GGplay mediocre? They are definitely one of the best Zergs out there these days along with Jaedong and Luxury. They have the potential to beat any players on a good day. Look how fucking biased you are, finding everything bad about Flash's games. Give me any player, and I can do the same thing. "This guy sucks. He beat player A, who's mediocre at best, with some cheese and won against player B because he sucks dick." What about Flash's games against July? vs Much? I don't see how you can possibly put forGG ahead of Flash. Your only backup for that is..."forGG would beat him right now." This is called speculation, and should not be a determining factor in the power rankings.
stop using fuck and shit, it dosent make you look cool. I try to write in a tolerant way even though i just registered, as a staff member you should try it too, it doesnt hurts.
I apologize calling yarnc and GGplay mediocre zergs, lets say they arent top zergs, GGplay had a comfortable walk into the ro8 (ligh, rock), and here came Flash, GGplay was considered an underdog, and yet he won. As for yarnc his zvt is good his zvz is good his zvp is bad. It may not be a shame to lose to them, even for flash, or to drop a game against a less known player in PL, but doing this in a short period of time, that's really is a problem.
You're right i forgot about the match against Much, the match against july was mor than a month ago, and you pointed out that PR should be about "MONTHLY" performence. So this way Flash is 6-5 in the past 30 days, losing the games that counted the most, do you think he deserves 5th place? Or u "speculate" that he's still very good despite of the facts.
About Forgg you skipped the argumentative parts. I wrote, even though he had few games he won them in a convincing style, against decent opponents. Well he would beat Flash, yes, this is a speculation, or a bet based on experience, he beat him 3-1, his TvT was awesome after that, Flash, well he wasnt doing too well lately, so everything points in the direction Forgg would come ahead. That's not for sure, yeah, it could be called speculation, but I still gave you normal argument, that you just skipped, and answered to me with this post filled with thrash-words.
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About FBH. If you put players on the PR based on two or three matches,than imo it shouldn't be FBH. FBH is great,I admit it,but he has no chance whatsoever in winning the Msl,and I would even say,he is not the favourite against Tempest. And besides those two impressive wins,he showed us nothing this month. He bunk rushed Flash,and lost to Best in a rather emberassing way. I think FBH should be on the Pr,but not higher than 8-10.
My rank would be:
1.Jd
2.Best
3.Stork
4.ForGG
5.Flash
6.Bisu
7. Fantasy
8.Yarnc
9.FBH
10. Jangbi
Type b and GGplay for CNBC
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On October 12 2008 12:17 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2008 05:07 Februarys wrote:On October 12 2008 04:34 OneOther wrote:
Why Jaedong at #1?
Jaedong and Stork are both in MSL. Stork is in OSL semifinals, Jaedong is not.
1. Stork
2. Jaedong Because Jaedong is obviously a better player than Stork? Jaedong > Stork, we know this because last time Jaedong met Stork in matches, he played a 1 sided rape game Your reasoning is so fucking awful I almost considered not wasting my time arguing against, but I will do it anyway. So, you are basically saying that Jaedong should be placed above Stork regardless how they are performing in individual leagues because he won the last time they played? Stork is in the semifinals of OSL, buddy. Following your logic, Frozean should be placed above Jaedong since the last two games they played it was a complete one-sided rape. Oh yeah, and forGG should definitely be above JD as well. Remember the 3-0 assrape? Yeah. forGG>Jaedong, clearly. Guys, this power rank should be solely based on performance, not who we think can beat who. Sure, JD has done well against Stork in the past, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore their performances in the leagues. We never know what's going to happen. Therefore, we need to base the rankings on relative performances. We can't say Flash would beat Stork in a BO5, either. Flash isn't playing at his best, while Stork clearly is. Just because Flash has beaten him the past two finals, can we make an assumption that results would be the same? Definitely not. Stork has beaten him 3-0 before, too. Power Ranking = Monthly Performance
Aham GGplay is in the OSL semis as well
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there`s no point in arguing here. We`re all biased.
IMO JD is the best. If u do not agree with that it`s just ur opinion. We`ll just have to w8 and let FakeSteve decide. (if there will be a PR this month )
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On October 13 2008 03:36 disciple wrote:
well tell me then who made something more significant from the ppl below FBH in my rank. ForGG? we've seen almost nothing from him... I wont put Flash even into consideration, he screwed the things pretty badly. Fantasy is strong but he must improve in PL, he has no other competitions to think about besides OSL, he must really contribute to SKTs performance this season, so far he is disappointing. If we make the things based on theoretical thoughts I will put Bisu in top 3 with ez. He improved a lot in his PvP just in a couple of weeks because of his solid preparation. In theory I cant find any reason why he wouldnt improve his PvT and PvZ as well in the future. You see, all you said about JD and Stork is maybe absolutely right in general. But the performance in every month, the achievements in every match are quite specific case. Once again we are talking about monthly PR right here. If we start speaking "in general" it will get quite messy. Thou he got through a slump Bisu is in general a top 3 player. The slump doesnt change anything, cause this is a normal state of each progamers carrier, JD will slump one day for sure. Will your hope in him fade away when it happens, or you will keep it with the comparison of his MU stats with someone else. The class is smth everlasting, but the current shape is something different. And to make a statement about the current shape of a player all you have to make is to take a look at his stats in exact point of time, in our case its a month (again, this is monthly PR). JD is classy, he is a champ, but looking at his performance for the last months or so and comparing all he made with what stork made tell us clearly that Stork is in a better shape
you're right, that all the other players that u ranked above FBH got some problem, like a crappy mu, my problem with FBH on the forth spot is he basicly came from nowhere, he wasnt even at the CNBC, than he quilfies the MSL and let's put him on the 4. place. You may be right, his Tvt and TvZ were very good, his pvt sucked. now he got good pvt he must be a damn good player. Theoeticly yes, but he should play more games to prove that now he's as good as he looks, not only he had a good day.
Yes, I agree we should make PR based on montly performence. Let's skip the part that X player lost to Y 3 months ago, and he would lose again right now. Let's take the facts. JD lost one game to frozean and one to fake yellow. As Oneorher just pointed out, and i had to agree with him, Yarnc is a quite good adversary droping him a game shoudn't be considered critical factor. The game against Frozean, F played close to perfection, it wasnt JD's fault, just watch the game pls, not say things based on the results. The rest of his games were genial, his comebacks against go.go's early agressive tactics, they were really awesome, it's not bias opinion, everybody should tell those were beautiful wins.
Stork, he played very well, i agree, he's in the both leauges, i know, but there are some factors, so i woudn't place him 1st. His game against Kal, he throw it away in a very ugly way losing FOUR(!!!) reavers for no reason. It's not about dropping a game to a decent player, he screwed it badly. Than the siries against Bisu, Bisu had that series, he threw away the 3th game, go and watch it, and say that Bisu just got outplayed. NO! he lost his shuttle with reavers for no reason, (and kept attacking uphill).
I really dont have nothing against Stork, but he's not the best player out there, not right now, if he beat forgg and best, or even one of them in a convincing style (like forgg playing well and still loosing to him) than we may talk about him being 1st. He's good, he got luck too, he's not the best player of the world right now.
EDIT: I kept writing siries instead of series, now i corrected it here, but it may be still wrong in the previous posts, sorry for that.
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This is turning out to be an interesting month, there's more people that deserve PR this month than the last. I feel a change in the winds...the next few months will be very exciting IMO.
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9070 Posts
dont worry about typing mistakes my English sux big time as well actually I'm quite hardcore bisu fan so I've watched the series vs stork, the 3rd game to be honest just once cause it pained me as I watched it online, I figure out what was going to happen when he lost the shuttle. Stork played well there, he broke the contain with nice micro, not that many ppl could have done that (at least Much couldnt in the tiebreak game vs Bisu), so he deserves much credit for turning out the outcome of the game, it wasnt all bisu. never mind I'm trying to be as less biased as possible (I dont like both JD and Stork actually but it doesnt matter at all)
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On October 13 2008 04:24 disciple wrote:dont worry about typing mistakes my English sux big time as well actually I'm quite hardcore bisu fan so I've watched the series vs stork, the 3rd game to be honest just once cause it pained me as I watched it online, I figure out what was going to happen when he lost the shuttle. Stork played well there, he broke the contain with nice micro, not that many ppl could have done that (at least Much couldnt in the tiebreak game vs Bisu), so he deserves much credit for turning out the outcome of the game, it wasnt all bisu. never mind I'm trying to be as less biased as possible (I dont like both JD and Stork actually but it doesnt matter at all)
yah, he's playin very good, i dont want to take it away from him, it woudnt be a shame if he lost, but he needed that wasted shuttle with reavers to win the game and advance. The thing i dont like it's, ppl saying, Stork beated Bisu he's better pvp he may take down Best, he most be 1st PR, for Bisu, well he should go for the 8th/9th rank and be proud that he may be Best's practice partner (ok, i admit, i made up the last part, dont kill me for it, i dont mean it). I wonder if Bisu would have won that game, as he certainly could have won it, what would all these ppl say now
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United States10774 Posts
On October 13 2008 03:47 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2008 03:29 OneOther wrote:On October 13 2008 02:57 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 13 2008 02:32 OneOther wrote:
Geo.Rion
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100% based on speculation and bias. You know, talking about bias, i really tried my best to be as objective as I can, to underline Stork's and JD's assets and weaknesses so did several people over here, you just ignore all of us and say speculation, bias, Stork is better, he's in both leauges, no matter he would lose to JD in boX he's the nr.1 right now. Since english isn't my first language i may misunderstand the word bias, to me it means talking about stg from a single point of view, ignoring all the others, being narrow-minded, having a one sided opinion. I read my post once again, read several of yours and i really feel that it's not me who posts based on bias. I dont know if you even read my post or just answered, or if you are watching this games we are talking about, or you just go to stats. I recommend once again the game against Kal or the siries against Bisuor even against backho, than whatch some of Best's PvP, after that come back and say Stork gonna beat Best. Actually I have been providing valid arguments, and I think your post was full of shit.
About JD and Stork i just wrote.
FBH as 4th for beating 2 tosses, who most probably practiced pvp whole week? You must be joking.
Flash as 5th? He's out of both leagues 2 mediocre zergs kicked him out, dropped a game in the PL to tester (from estro), so what did he achieve recently? Rolled over Bul t, rock, sangho (B-C category tosses) and all-in proxy raxed against Bisu, and lost all the matches that counted. Yeah, Forgg played just a few games but at least he won them in a convincing style, why put him behind Flash and FBH, he would beat both of them right now.
You are taking credit away from FireBatHero after he just took down Bisu and Much in his worst matchup TvP. Your reason is that those guys "practiced PvP the whole week." Hundred percent speculation. This does not qualify as a legitimate reason to belittle what FBH was able to do. Yeah, Flash dropped a game to Tester in ProLeague but who doesn't ever drop a game to inferior players in PL? Shit happens dude. This, again, should not be a reason to drop Flash below the 5th ranking. Mediocre Zergs, hmm. You consider Yellow[arnc] and GGplay mediocre? They are definitely one of the best Zergs out there these days along with Jaedong and Luxury. They have the potential to beat any players on a good day. Look how fucking biased you are, finding everything bad about Flash's games. Give me any player, and I can do the same thing. "This guy sucks. He beat player A, who's mediocre at best, with some cheese and won against player B because he sucks dick." What about Flash's games against July? vs Much? I don't see how you can possibly put forGG ahead of Flash. Your only backup for that is..."forGG would beat him right now." This is called speculation, and should not be a determining factor in the power rankings. stop using fuck and shit, it dosent make you look cool. I try to write in a tolerant way even though i just registered, as a staff member you should try it too, it doesnt hurts. I apologize calling yarnc and GGplay mediocre zergs, lets say they arent top zergs, GGplay had a comfortable walk into the ro8 (ligh, rock), and here came Flash, GGplay was considered an underdog, and yet he won. As for yarnc his zvt is good his zvz is good his zvp is bad. It may not be a shame to lose to them, even for flash, or to drop a game against a less known player in PL, but doing this in a short period of time, that's really is a problem. You're right i forgot about the match against Much, the match against july was mor than a month ago, and you pointed out that PR should be about "MONTHLY" performence. So this way Flash is 6-5 in the past 30 days, losing the games that counted the most, do you think he deserves 5th place? Or u "speculate" that he's still very good despite of the facts. About Forgg you skipped the argumentative parts. I wrote, even though he had few games he won them in a convincing style, against decent opponents. Well he would beat Flash, yes, this is a speculation, or a bet based on experience, he beat him 3-1, his TvT was awesome after that, Flash, well he wasnt doing too well lately, so everything points in the direction Forgg would come ahead. That's not for sure, yeah, it could be called speculation, but I still gave you normal argument, that you just skipped, and answered to me with this post filled with thrash-words.
I do apologize for using shit and fuck, but calling my post "filled with thrash-words" is certainly an exaggeration since I used them only once. Your "normal argument" was that forGG should be placed above Flash because he will come out victorious if they played, based on his recent games. I didn't skip anything. It's still a speculative evidence that should not affect the power rankings.
What I am saying is, forGG hasn't shown any performance that would justify his placement above Flash. At least Flash made it to the RO8 of OSL.
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On October 12 2008 18:16 OneOther wrote:Fuck. Let's end the discussion with Tyranid's post. Now we got a guy suggesting the TLPD should be used to determine the power rankings. Of course the sample size is small. But THAT SMALL SIZED SAMPLE MAKES A DIFFERENCE IN HOW THE PLAYERS PERFORM IN LEAGUES. If Stork went 2-1 vs Bisu and advances to the OSL semis, it SHOULD play a significant role in the upcoming power rankings. It's only three games, but it makes a huge difference. I don't care if Jaedong went 2-3 or something verses cannon rushes and bunker all ins. Let's say he gets eliminated from whatever league while player B does not, then player B automatically earns PR points. Favorites in player verses player matchups...I have been talking about the flaws in that method for a while now. Show nested quote +i don't think there is any way to put stork over jaedong in the power rank unless jaedong slumps, or stork is able to beat jaedong in a series. Are you a mindless Jaedong fanboy or just...dumb? Are you actually saying that Jaedong should be #1 even if Stork beats BeSt and goes on to win the OSL? Here's a nice example. Let's just imagine that we were doing a power ranking for NBA. Portland Blazers just won the championship. On the other hand, the Boston Celtics, who have been ranked #1 throughout the entire regular season, got eliminated in the earlier playoff rounds by some other team. Don't you agree that the Blazers should be #1 on the Power Ranking?
i absolutely don't mean offense, but you just don't understand the concept of sample size. i mean most sports fans don't, and don't want to either, but there's no reason to debate when our outlooks are so fundamentally opposed.
however, that nba example is unfair, the question is loaded - of course they'd be #1. but in starcraft there are two concurrent leagues, and i don't think winning only one league is comparable to the nba championship. games are more decided by luck in starcraft than in basketball. the playoff structure in basketball is much more favorable to the better teams over starcraft, given the longer series, and given the starleagues' pool round.
an improvement on the hypothetical would be the 2006 world series when the cardinals won, as baseball playoffs are similar to starcraft leagues in terms of confidence level. the cardinals were called "the worst team to ever win a world series." even though they won, there was a general agreement that they were probably not even a top 5 team. sometimes the worse team just wins. that's, well, that's the definition of odds.
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9070 Posts
On October 13 2008 04:35 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2008 04:24 disciple wrote:dont worry about typing mistakes my English sux big time as well actually I'm quite hardcore bisu fan so I've watched the series vs stork, the 3rd game to be honest just once cause it pained me as I watched it online, I figure out what was going to happen when he lost the shuttle. Stork played well there, he broke the contain with nice micro, not that many ppl could have done that (at least Much couldnt in the tiebreak game vs Bisu), so he deserves much credit for turning out the outcome of the game, it wasnt all bisu. never mind I'm trying to be as less biased as possible (I dont like both JD and Stork actually but it doesnt matter at all) yah, he's playin very good, i dont want to take it away from him, it woudnt be a shame if he lost, but he needed that wasted shuttle with reavers to win the game and advance. The thing i dont like it's, ppl saying, Stork beated Bisu he's better pvp he may take down Best, he most be 1st PR, for Bisu, well he should go for the 8th/9th rank and be proud that he may be Best's practice partner (ok, i admit, i made up the last part, dont kill me for it, i dont mean it). I wonder if Bisu would have won that game, as he certainly could have won it, what would all these ppl say now
storks PvP is better than Bisus in general, but the revolutionist has brought the gap to the absolute minimum. Bisu vs Best was going to be seesaw but... yeah one shuttle sniped and its all over, there were actually a couple of factors. I dont put Storks amazing pvp mechanics in doubt, but I think Bisu slightly outclassed him those two games, and if werent the blunders Bisu was the better prepared player. But with 1:1 on the scoreboard and in a do-or-die game anything could happen, even to forget the goon range so I think stork truly deserved to advance more than Bisu
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United States10774 Posts
On October 13 2008 06:52 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2008 04:35 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 13 2008 04:24 disciple wrote:dont worry about typing mistakes my English sux big time as well actually I'm quite hardcore bisu fan so I've watched the series vs stork, the 3rd game to be honest just once cause it pained me as I watched it online, I figure out what was going to happen when he lost the shuttle. Stork played well there, he broke the contain with nice micro, not that many ppl could have done that (at least Much couldnt in the tiebreak game vs Bisu), so he deserves much credit for turning out the outcome of the game, it wasnt all bisu. never mind I'm trying to be as less biased as possible (I dont like both JD and Stork actually but it doesnt matter at all) yah, he's playin very good, i dont want to take it away from him, it woudnt be a shame if he lost, but he needed that wasted shuttle with reavers to win the game and advance. The thing i dont like it's, ppl saying, Stork beated Bisu he's better pvp he may take down Best, he most be 1st PR, for Bisu, well he should go for the 8th/9th rank and be proud that he may be Best's practice partner (ok, i admit, i made up the last part, dont kill me for it, i dont mean it). I wonder if Bisu would have won that game, as he certainly could have won it, what would all these ppl say now storks PvP is better than Bisus in general, but the revolutionist has brought the gap to the absolute minimum. Bisu vs Best was going to be seesaw but... yeah one shuttle sniped and its all over, there were actually a couple of factors. I dont put Storks amazing pvp mechanics in doubt, but I think Bisu slightly outclassed him those two games, and if werent the blunders Bisu was the better prepared player. But with 1:1 on the scoreboard and in a do-or-die game anything could happen, even to forget the goon range so I think stork truly deserved to advance more than Bisu
Stork was THE best at PvP until Best caught up. They are even now, and I can't wait for the match!
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I don't know about even. Best just doesn't make many mistakes in PvP, and he capitalizes on small ones made by his opponent and makes them rather large... I would say I can't even remember when he lost, but that'd be a lie: it was to Stork an age and a half ago. I don't think Stork could ever claim to be as consistently good in the matchup as Best has been. Although he was the gold standard (silver standard?) of PvP before Best came around...
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On October 13 2008 07:23 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2008 06:52 disciple wrote:On October 13 2008 04:35 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 13 2008 04:24 disciple wrote:dont worry about typing mistakes my English sux big time as well actually I'm quite hardcore bisu fan so I've watched the series vs stork, the 3rd game to be honest just once cause it pained me as I watched it online, I figure out what was going to happen when he lost the shuttle. Stork played well there, he broke the contain with nice micro, not that many ppl could have done that (at least Much couldnt in the tiebreak game vs Bisu), so he deserves much credit for turning out the outcome of the game, it wasnt all bisu. never mind I'm trying to be as less biased as possible (I dont like both JD and Stork actually but it doesnt matter at all) yah, he's playin very good, i dont want to take it away from him, it woudnt be a shame if he lost, but he needed that wasted shuttle with reavers to win the game and advance. The thing i dont like it's, ppl saying, Stork beated Bisu he's better pvp he may take down Best, he most be 1st PR, for Bisu, well he should go for the 8th/9th rank and be proud that he may be Best's practice partner (ok, i admit, i made up the last part, dont kill me for it, i dont mean it). I wonder if Bisu would have won that game, as he certainly could have won it, what would all these ppl say now storks PvP is better than Bisus in general, but the revolutionist has brought the gap to the absolute minimum. Bisu vs Best was going to be seesaw but... yeah one shuttle sniped and its all over, there were actually a couple of factors. I dont put Storks amazing pvp mechanics in doubt, but I think Bisu slightly outclassed him those two games, and if werent the blunders Bisu was the better prepared player. But with 1:1 on the scoreboard and in a do-or-die game anything could happen, even to forget the goon range so I think stork truly deserved to advance more than Bisu Stork was THE best at PvP until Best caught up. They are even now, and I can't wait for the match! Watching Backho vs Stork...and then randomly selecting any of Best's pvp games in recent months, does not give me any confidence in Stork taking down best.
Prediction:
Best> Stork 3-1
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United States10774 Posts
On October 13 2008 11:50 ScarFace wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2008 07:23 OneOther wrote:On October 13 2008 06:52 disciple wrote:On October 13 2008 04:35 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 13 2008 04:24 disciple wrote:dont worry about typing mistakes my English sux big time as well actually I'm quite hardcore bisu fan so I've watched the series vs stork, the 3rd game to be honest just once cause it pained me as I watched it online, I figure out what was going to happen when he lost the shuttle. Stork played well there, he broke the contain with nice micro, not that many ppl could have done that (at least Much couldnt in the tiebreak game vs Bisu), so he deserves much credit for turning out the outcome of the game, it wasnt all bisu. never mind I'm trying to be as less biased as possible (I dont like both JD and Stork actually but it doesnt matter at all) yah, he's playin very good, i dont want to take it away from him, it woudnt be a shame if he lost, but he needed that wasted shuttle with reavers to win the game and advance. The thing i dont like it's, ppl saying, Stork beated Bisu he's better pvp he may take down Best, he most be 1st PR, for Bisu, well he should go for the 8th/9th rank and be proud that he may be Best's practice partner (ok, i admit, i made up the last part, dont kill me for it, i dont mean it). I wonder if Bisu would have won that game, as he certainly could have won it, what would all these ppl say now storks PvP is better than Bisus in general, but the revolutionist has brought the gap to the absolute minimum. Bisu vs Best was going to be seesaw but... yeah one shuttle sniped and its all over, there were actually a couple of factors. I dont put Storks amazing pvp mechanics in doubt, but I think Bisu slightly outclassed him those two games, and if werent the blunders Bisu was the better prepared player. But with 1:1 on the scoreboard and in a do-or-die game anything could happen, even to forget the goon range so I think stork truly deserved to advance more than Bisu Stork was THE best at PvP until Best caught up. They are even now, and I can't wait for the match! Watching Backho vs Stork...and then randomly selecting any of Best's pvp games in recent months, does not give me any confidence in Stork taking down best. Prediction: Best> Stork 3-1
Analyzing the quality of opponents and the games with my abundant PvP knowledge,
Prediction
Stork>Best 3-1
no bias, of course
traced: I typed up a nice long response to your post..until my computer shut down. Lol.
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Russian Federation4333 Posts
I want to point something out.
Frankly it is pointless to make the september PR at this point. We are midway through october where the players we are debating over have already played more games than in the whole month of september:
Jaedong played 3 games in september and already 3 games in october
Stork played 3 games in september and already 8 games in october ( where he qualified for BOTH leagues. If this was september 30'th there would be no argument that Stork should be abore JD)
Best played 3 games in september and already 6 games in october
Firebathero demonstrated his TvP skills in october.
If the september rank is posted, it should only touch the games played in september. As we debate right now we take into account the games played in october as well. Actually the majority of the games in some player's cases (stork, FBH). So if the September PR is released, then we will not get the up do date accurate standings. We will get 2 week old standings which by now have changed. On the other hand the PR could be released say on october 17'th. What the fuck is the point of that? That messes up the whole power rank system. The PR, up until the last couple months, has always been relatively on time (give or take a few days). So if say the PR is released in mid october, will the PR continue being released in the middle of each month or will you make a "half" PR and post it in the beginning of november?
In this post I am not trying to imply anything negative about the efforts of Fakesteve and Deadvessel. I am just saying you guys should regroup and sort out when you have time to do the PR. Or nominate someone else with more free time to take over it.
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On October 13 2008 09:08 zer0das wrote:
I don't know about even. Best just doesn't make many mistakes in PvP, and he capitalizes on small ones made by his opponent and makes them rather large... I would say I can't even remember when he lost, but that'd be a lie: it was to Stork an age and a half ago. I don't think Stork could ever claim to be as consistently good in the matchup as Best has been. Although he was the gold standard (silver standard?) of PvP before Best came around...
Actually stork has a good chance against best, and imo it could go either way. U can`t just say that best doesn`t make mistakes. Anyone COULD make mistakes. So we`ll just have to w8 and see.
I predict a close match. Even if Best/Stork wins 3-0, there will be some close games.
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Stork will proxy gate best 3 games in a row
Stork 3-0
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On October 14 2008 01:20 Little-Chimp wrote:
Stork will proxy gate best 3 games in a row
haha and lose
On October 14 2008 01:20 Little-Chimp wrote:
Best 3-0
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9070 Posts
btw if BeSt beats Stork 3-0 which is most likely to happen he will extend his PvP winning streak to 20 games !!!111!11
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On October 14 2008 04:00 disciple wrote:
btw if BeSt beats Stork 3-0 which is most likely to happen he will extend his PvP winning streak to 20 games !!!111!11
sad thing is that if he wins it 3-1 his streak gonna be broken because of a game which does not count
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I don't really care about the streak,just win plz Best! Of course I wouldn't mind at all,if the streak continues,but it's not that easy and important. The first priority is to win by all costs.
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I hope Best improves his PvZ like Firebathero improved his TvP.
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On October 14 2008 23:35 Nitan wrote:
I hope Best improves his PvZ like Firebathero improved his TvP.
I don't know how much he improved his TvP but he is at least winning some games now...
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/407/tlvggsq9.png)
