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On October 08 2008 13:20 Februarys wrote:
I think Best has had a very good month, lots of wins here and there. His recent loss against Jaedong shouldn't count because..not really any Protoss can touch Jaedong's ZvP and he is the #1 player in the world Yeah, but his terrible PVZ in general should most certainly be counted.
Look, there is simply no room for argument. Best's pvz is mediocre, at best.
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If Best recently beat Luxury 3-0 in OSL, he doesn't have terrible PvZ. I'd say his PvZ is at least Mediocore. I see Best as an all-around Protoss. Bisu is known for his PvZ, Stork for his PvT, and Best for his PvP. Even though I like Bisu alot, I'd have to say Best is the strongest looking Protoss, even though Stork has been performing great lately
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Valhalla18444 Posts
he won 3-2 and luxury basically threw the series away
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9071 Posts
On October 09 2008 10:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
he won 3-2 and luxury basically threw the series away
give the boy some credit. I can count the comebacks from 0-2 on the fingers of my hand, Best made something amazing right there, he had the balls to make it happen, the 3rd game was a pure sex, remember when was the last time a toss went for an one base strat against a zerg, Bisu must have been like 15 years old back then
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On October 09 2008 10:56 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2008 10:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
he won 3-2 and luxury basically threw the series away give the boy some credit. I can count the comebacks from 0-2 on the fingers of my hand, Best made something amazing right there, he had the balls to make it happen, the 3rd game was a pure sex, remember when was the last time a toss went for an one base strat against a zerg, Bisu must have been like 15 years old back then
he gets some credit, but that series was lux's to lose. and he did. b/c lux just sucks when it counts (especially against protoss, he even threw a series vs stork). his mechanics are the only thing that makes his pvz as good as it is. not b/c he understands the mu particularly well, but that he just beats it into oblivion with his apm.
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On October 09 2008 11:03 brjdrb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2008 10:56 disciple wrote:On October 09 2008 10:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
he won 3-2 and luxury basically threw the series away give the boy some credit. I can count the comebacks from 0-2 on the fingers of my hand, Best made something amazing right there, he had the balls to make it happen, the 3rd game was a pure sex, remember when was the last time a toss went for an one base strat against a zerg, Bisu must have been like 15 years old back then he gets some credit, but that series was lux's to lose. and he did. b/c lux just sucks when it counts (especially against protoss, he even threw a series vs stork). his mechanics are the only thing that makes his pvz as good as it is. not b/c he understands the mu particularly well, but that he just beats it into oblivion with his apm.
you make it sound like a bad thing that he "beats it into oblivion with his apm"
there are a lot of other players who won using that method and are considered great.
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He played the same way PvZ as he does PvT and that's not gonna cut it if he goes up against a zerg who is adaptive.
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Best's PvZ is terrible, and the only reason it's not evident to everyone all the time is because most of the Zerg he plays against have terrible ZvP. I don't see how anyone can pretend that he has anything more than a basic understanding of the matchup after watching the series against July or the more recent games against Jaedong.
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On October 09 2008 12:00 capek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2008 11:03 brjdrb wrote:On October 09 2008 10:56 disciple wrote:On October 09 2008 10:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
he won 3-2 and luxury basically threw the series away give the boy some credit. I can count the comebacks from 0-2 on the fingers of my hand, Best made something amazing right there, he had the balls to make it happen, the 3rd game was a pure sex, remember when was the last time a toss went for an one base strat against a zerg, Bisu must have been like 15 years old back then he gets some credit, but that series was lux's to lose. and he did. b/c lux just sucks when it counts (especially against protoss, he even threw a series vs stork). his mechanics are the only thing that makes his pvz as good as it is. not b/c he understands the mu particularly well, but that he just beats it into oblivion with his apm. you make it sound like a bad thing that he "beats it into oblivion with his apm" there are a lot of other players who won using that method and are considered great. k dude, if the strength of one match up is based entirely on your capacity to macro, thats a bad fuckin sign. Everyone can macro. Best is better than others, so he has slightly more units to use against a Zerg than the average protoss. Here's the thing though: he uses them deftly. He does not adapt, he does not attack when he should, how he should. He does not read the zerg properly. He therefore loses, and looks like a chump.
Lux threw the series. No credit goes to Best, other than keeping his nerves together. Luxury played terrible, sweat was pouring down his face. He completely collapsed in the series. Before he collapsed, he was embarrassing Best. Just like July did. Just like Jaedong did. Just like any Zerg with half decent vp does, and will do, until he reforms his vz.
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IIRC, Luxury was crying after he threw away the 3rd game, and at that moment I knew Best would win. Luxury choked, and he knew it himself.
The problem is that there is basically only two great ZvP players atm, and one (july) is rather inconsistent. I think Best would beat most zergs, but I do NOT think he is good PvZ, just that most zergs are bad.
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stork > best ( this month )
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United States10654 Posts
You can't just say that most zergs are bad, cause that means either racial imbalance, or Best is better PvZ than their ZvP. Which would lead to Best having good PvZ.
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On October 09 2008 20:17 Pokebunny wrote:
You can't just say that most zergs are bad, cause that means either racial imbalance, or Best is better PvZ than their ZvP. Which would lead to Best having good PvZ.
No, that means that right now, there are only two zergs which are generally considered to have "good" ZvP" If you want to claim "good" PvZ, you have to be even with them, playwise. Best has NOT done so yet. From that follows that best does not have good PvZ.
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Don't worry FakeSteve, I'll save you!!!
October Power Rank:
1) FakeSteve[TPR] - CROTCHMASTER!!!
2) Liquid`Drone - He wins twice! IMO, he would have been rank 1 if the rank 1 weren't ranked number 1, lol.
3) - 4) GTR-2-Go / HnR)Insane -
5) Chill - He owned without even having to play.
6) Plexa - A-move gg no re. Protoss ez.
7) Sp1ralArch1tect - Too bad we didn't get to see you bm-own the noobs, but the DOOMED DROP got in the way.
8) EffOrt - CJ D-Team offracing luckboxed his way to a win. (-_-)
9) GrooVe - He would have been placed higher were it not for his nonsubjectively misplaced depot.
10) yubee - Oh, yeah.
CNBC:
LastRomantic - "FUCK"
DeadVessel - 2nd best doomed drop of the series (guess the 1st. :p )
"Klazart" - LOL
MoltkeWarding
(Remember, this list is subjective, not misplaced.  )
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On October 09 2008 20:49 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2008 20:17 Pokebunny wrote:
You can't just say that most zergs are bad, cause that means either racial imbalance, or Best is better PvZ than their ZvP. Which would lead to Best having good PvZ. No, that means that right now, there are only two zergs which are generally considered to have "good" ZvP" If you want to claim "good" PvZ, you have to be even with them, playwise. Best has NOT done so yet. From that follows that best does not have good PvZ.
I think he meant that you should rank the performance relatively rather than a simple absolute ranking. Rankings is all relative: the reason we know that Jaedong/Flash is so much better than Rock is because we have other players in-between their skill level to see the heirachy of skill level
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Jaedong is the man. The man plays ZvP. The man plays ZvZ. The man plays ZvT when he feels like it. The man can dance.
The man is #1.
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Bisu needs some love in the next PR, guessing rank somewhere between 7 and 10. He's not as great as his mini-bonjwa run but its still decent play
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On October 10 2008 15:09 nujabes wrote:
Bisu needs some love in the next PR, guessing rank somewhere between 7 and 10. He's not as great as his mini-bonjwa run but its still decent play
If games from this month are included he will most likely not be in the PR , because of Stork most likely killing him ...
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United States10774 Posts
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It's about time Flash's standing in the PR take notice of his recent performance. That guy has been overrated for the last 2 months.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/407/tlvggsq9.png)
