|
|
On July 01 2024 04:42 Liquid`Drone wrote: They had 42 completed passes in 26 minutes and scored a lucky own goal. I'm not at all a champion of possession based football but Georgia has been completely dominated and they are very fortunate. 15 minutes in im not sure they had three completed passes in a row.
They have a good gk and they are playing their hearts out and doing the best they can with what they have and I totally respect that, but this is an approach that gives an inferior team a small chance at victory as opposed to no chance at victory, it is not a valid approach for a top team
They tried enough passes, they just dont have enough quality to have more completed passes.
|
Northern Ireland22218 Posts
On July 01 2024 04:46 Mafe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2024 04:42 Liquid`Drone wrote: They had 42 completed passes in 26 minutes and scored a lucky own goal. I'm not at all a champion of possession based football but Georgia has been completely dominated and they are very fortunate. 15 minutes in im not sure they had three completed passes in a row.
They have a good gk and they are playing their hearts out and doing the best they can with what they have and I totally respect that, but this is an approach that gives an inferior team a small chance at victory as opposed to no chance at victory, it is not a valid approach for a top team One could argue that the "playing their hearts out and doing the best they can with what they have"-part is in fact a valid approach even for a top team though. Managing a big team brings with it an insane level of pressure that you don’t get elsewhere, even at club level.
In addition it is easier to get buy-in with squads less full of real elite talent, without egos to get in the way.
Some sides who I’ve really enjoyed playing who had a real obvious identity instilled by a coach would be your Austria’s under Ragnick, or a Chile under Bielsa. Decent sides but never really punched above their weight, with players eager to do so and so really going with the coach.
Whereas the top sides it’s almost notably the opposite. They’ll be the sum of their parts if you’re lucky, and often it’s getting something vaguely functional on the pitch and a huge point of the job is managing the pressure and expectation.
Perhaps Spain is a wee exception in that unlike many of its European contemporaries there clearly is a ‘Spanish style’ even if it fluctuates a little, so you can kinda lean off that as half your work is done.
|
Speaking of Bielsa, hes doing great at Uruguay atm
|
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51416 Posts
Its coming home!!!!!!!! We turned up for 120 seconds and won the game, fun fun!
Southgate hopefully finally learns now and we can move forward. Bring on swiss on saturday!!!
|
Norway28413 Posts
On July 01 2024 05:42 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2024 04:46 Mafe wrote:On July 01 2024 04:42 Liquid`Drone wrote: They had 42 completed passes in 26 minutes and scored a lucky own goal. I'm not at all a champion of possession based football but Georgia has been completely dominated and they are very fortunate. 15 minutes in im not sure they had three completed passes in a row.
They have a good gk and they are playing their hearts out and doing the best they can with what they have and I totally respect that, but this is an approach that gives an inferior team a small chance at victory as opposed to no chance at victory, it is not a valid approach for a top team One could argue that the "playing their hearts out and doing the best they can with what they have"-part is in fact a valid approach even for a top team though. Managing a big team brings with it an insane level of pressure that you don’t get elsewhere, even at club level. In addition it is easier to get buy-in with squads less full of real elite talent, without egos to get in the way. Some sides who I’ve really enjoyed playing who had a real obvious identity instilled by a coach would be your Austria’s under Ragnick, or a Chile under Bielsa. Decent sides but never really punched above their weight, with players eager to do so and so really going with the coach. Whereas the top sides it’s almost notably the opposite. They’ll be the sum of their parts if you’re lucky, and often it’s getting something vaguely functional on the pitch and a huge point of the job is managing the pressure and expectation. Perhaps Spain is a wee exception in that unlike many of its European contemporaries there clearly is a ‘Spanish style’ even if it fluctuates a little, so you can kinda lean off that as half your work is done.
Eh I think Spain and Italy have had clear identities in terms of playing style. Germany used to, but they arguably lost it sometime after 2000. Netherlands used to (arguably they had the strongest identity), but I think they have lacked the necessary quality to maintain it. England's identity is the lack of cohesion, while France has one of 'amazing players that occasionally work well together'.
|
Norway28413 Posts
I was just curious cuz I had a thought. England almost always plays tight games in the knockout stage. Even the group stage actually.
Went as far as to look this up for the entirety of my football watching career. Here are the european cups:
2020 is the exception, where they actually had a 4-0 win (against Ukraine). But 2020 also had them play 4 games, 3 wins, 1 loss, one game went to extra time (win) and one went to penalties (loss). 2016 - lost by 1 goal 2012 - lost on penalties 2008 failed to qualify 2004 - lost on penalties 2000 lost in group stage (against a last minute goal in the final match. Here they also did not lose any games by more than 1 goal 96 - won on penalties, lost on penalties 92 - two draws and one 1-2 loss in group stage Their best performance is in 2020 where they lost the finals. Aside from that, they've never gotten far, but: Not a single loss of theirs, be it in group stage or the bracket, is by more than 1 goal.
Similarly gonna have a look at world cups: 2022: Lost 1-2 to France 2018: Lost 0-1 to Belgium in group stage, 1-2 after extra time vs Croatia in the semi final. Did lose 0-2 vs Belgium in the Bronze final. 2014: lost vs Italy and Uruguay in the group stage, both 1-2. 2010: Got crushed 1-4 vs Germany 2006: Lost on penalties to Portugal 2002: 1-2 vs Brazil 1998: Lost vs Argentina on penalties 94 didn't qualify (was unfortunate to be in qualifying groups with emerging powerhouse Norway) 1990: Won two games on extra time and then lost a penalty shootout
Seriously I just looked through 34 years of championship history. They've never won. There's a handful of bigger victories there. But for all their eliminations and losses, there are a grand total of two - group stages included - where they lose by more than 1 goal. This might be their identity, I guess - lose in a way that makes them think 'oh well it could've gone our way, damn lady luck just isn't our friend'. 7 penalty shootouts.
|
Northern Ireland22218 Posts
On July 01 2024 05:53 Pandemona wrote: Its coming home!!!!!!!! We turned up for 120 seconds and won the game, fun fun!
Southgate hopefully finally learns now and we can move forward. Bring on swiss on saturday!!!
On July 01 2024 05:53 Pandemona wrote: Its coming home!!!!!!!! We turned up for 120 seconds and won the game, fun fun!
Southgate hopefully finally learns now and we can move forward. Bring on swiss on saturday!!! Can they play much worse?
I think on the plus side Mainoo looked decent in the middle, maybe that puzzle is approaching a solution for now.
The three puzzles, which are really rather linked are the left side, the midfield more generally, and the 10 conundrum. There’s not enough action down the left, both at full back and out wide up top. All 3 of Bellingham, Foden and Kane are drifting into traditional 10 positions and getting in each other’s way.
In theory, at a well-drilled club side those players rotating and interchanging could be devastating, but it’s just not working right now and I can’t see it suddenly working.
I don’t think Gordon’s as good a player as Foden, but swap them out. You end up with proper pace on the flanks, plus that movement in behind. Especially with Kane having such a proven record as that creative number 9 when he does drop deep a little. If he doesn’t have runners bombing around him you just see the team recycling possession and not creating much danger.
A negative, but something I think is possibly a small positive is that England are playing shit because well, they’re playing shit.
Which I know sounds counter-intuitive, daft, insane or ‘copium’ but there are worse problems to have! No star, irreplaceable talisman is out injured, you don’t have a scenario where England seemingly didn’t have a left footed midfielder for a decade. Or issues other teams have in this tournament
I’d be generous in giving more than a handful of 7/10s for English players this whole tournament. If most of the team can deliver that kind of shift, and say a Bellingham or whoever has an absolutely worldy, that can be enough at the business end of these comps
Wouldn’t say I’m confident but it could happen!
|
United States9855 Posts
On July 01 2024 09:05 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2024 05:53 Pandemona wrote: Its coming home!!!!!!!! We turned up for 120 seconds and won the game, fun fun!
Southgate hopefully finally learns now and we can move forward. Bring on swiss on saturday!!! Show nested quote +On July 01 2024 05:53 Pandemona wrote: Its coming home!!!!!!!! We turned up for 120 seconds and won the game, fun fun!
Southgate hopefully finally learns now and we can move forward. Bring on swiss on saturday!!! Can they play much worse? I think on the plus side Mainoo looked decent in the middle, maybe that puzzle is approaching a solution for now. The three puzzles, which are really rather linked are the left side, the midfield more generally, and the 10 conundrum. There’s not enough action down the left, both at full back and out wide up top. All 3 of Bellingham, Foden and Kane are drifting into traditional 10 positions and getting in each other’s way. In theory, at a well-drilled club side those players rotating and interchanging could be devastating, but it’s just not working right now and I can’t see it suddenly working. I don’t think Gordon’s as good a player as Foden, but swap them out. You end up with proper pace on the flanks, plus that movement in behind. Especially with Kane having such a proven record as that creative number 9 when he does drop deep a little. If he doesn’t have runners bombing around him you just see the team recycling possession and not creating much danger. A negative, but something I think is possibly a small positive is that England are playing shit because well, they’re playing shit. Which I know sounds counter-intuitive, daft, insane or ‘copium’ but there are worse problems to have! No star, irreplaceable talisman is out injured, you don’t have a scenario where England seemingly didn’t have a left footed midfielder for a decade. Or issues other teams have in this tournament I’d be generous in giving more than a handful of 7/10s for English players this whole tournament. If most of the team can deliver that kind of shift, and say a Bellingham or whoever has an absolutely worldy, that can be enough at the business end of these comps Wouldn’t say I’m confident but it could happen! The team needs to be bigger than the sum of its parts. Foden might be a bit better than Gordon, but Gordon's presence on the wing would definitely complete this team. Southgate got incredibly lucky again. This team is terrible though and Switzerland should have their number.
|
Northern Ireland22218 Posts
As to your other post, also interesting, I shall ponder that! I hadn’t crunched the numbers, but as a fan (for my sins) yeah that’s something. I wonder how other top nations fare in this regard. Feels like Spain won 3 tournaments off 1-0 wins so imagine their numbers would be lower than you’d think
England are rarely bad enough to ever get blown away, rarely good enough to blow teams away they’re better than, and against the (few, being realistic) teams they’re outright worse than they usually scrape enough of a performance to make it tight.
They’ve also got a terrible tendency to go a goal up, sit on it and eventually lose that way precedes Southgate. Even if they do close it out in the end they tend to almost invite the equaliser and thus maintain their win/lose by a single goal streak :p
WC 1998 versus Argentina - Could conceivably have won this, and I think people forget now that Hoddle was doing a good job with that side and got turfed out more for off-the-pitch controversy for Keegan not a huge time after. Beckham gets a silly red card, Sol Campbell (iirc) had a goal pretty roughly ruled out.
WC 2002 versus Brazil - This is the big one for me. 1-0 via Michael Owen, Brazil down to 10 men. Went back into their shell and absolutely choked this game. Ronaldinho scores his wonder goal/fluke, England give a goal after a clearly half-fit Beckham half-arses a tackle. This does feel the real one that got away given the composition of the rest of the Ro4, including a Germany side that England famously batteted 5-1
Euro 2004 versus Portugal - Rooney got injured after being absolutely electric throughout, one of the stars of that tournament and one of the best I’ve seen from an England player, so that was a big blow. Sol Campbell has a goal pretty roughly ruled out in the 90th (I checked this one so maybe 1998 was another player). Ashley Cole was top tier in this one, feel he’s never quite got the plaudits he should as an England player
WC 2010 versus Portugal - Rooney gets the daft red card here, silly business. Still take it to pens. Owen Hargreaves was unreal in this game, shame he had such injury issues.
Some tournaments they were just pretty bad, WC 2014 especially memorably for me.
2018 and 2022 WC I think they could have squeaked through, ultimately they were playing better sides. I think overall Croatia and England weren’t far apart but Croatia had such an edge in midfield that it eventually told. France I think is a rare occasion where England went into a game as underdogs and actually did make a 50/50 of it and rather show up , ultimately falling a bit short.
So overall I think they’re a really thin margin here or there, a contentious ref decision for at least having a fair few more Ro8/Ro4 runs.
Of course the flipside of this is the occasions where England were the lucky ones, which tend to stick less in the memory a little less!
|
On July 01 2024 01:42 sharkie wrote: England is the only country where you just push all world class players into the first team regardless of balance or if it works. Foden and Bellingham together dont work.. you have to decide on one of them. yeah this sums england up perfectly. its a repeat of the lampard/gerrard/scholes problem. the english have some obsession about having to play the big names with the best numbers and lose sight of what actually gives them the best team.
|
Norway28413 Posts
On July 01 2024 11:24 WombaT wrote: As to your other post, also interesting, I shall ponder that! I hadn’t crunched the numbers, but as a fan (for my sins) yeah that’s something. I wonder how other top nations fare in this regard. Feels like Spain won 3 tournaments off 1-0 wins so imagine their numbers would be lower than you’d think
England are rarely bad enough to ever get blown away, rarely good enough to blow teams away they’re better than, and against the (few, being realistic) teams they’re outright worse than they usually scrape enough of a performance to make it tight.
They’ve also got a terrible tendency to go a goal up, sit on it and eventually lose that way precedes Southgate. Even if they do close it out in the end they tend to almost invite the equaliser and thus maintain their win/lose by a single goal streak :p
WC 1998 versus Argentina - Could conceivably have won this, and I think people forget now that Hoddle was doing a good job with that side and got turfed out more for off-the-pitch controversy for Keegan not a huge time after. Beckham gets a silly red card, Sol Campbell (iirc) had a goal pretty roughly ruled out.
WC 2002 versus Brazil - This is the big one for me. 1-0 via Michael Owen, Brazil down to 10 men. Went back into their shell and absolutely choked this game. Ronaldinho scores his wonder goal/fluke, England give a goal after a clearly half-fit Beckham half-arses a tackle. This does feel the real one that got away given the composition of the rest of the Ro4, including a Germany side that England famously batteted 5-1
Euro 2004 versus Portugal - Rooney got injured after being absolutely electric throughout, one of the stars of that tournament and one of the best I’ve seen from an England player, so that was a big blow. Sol Campbell has a goal pretty roughly ruled out in the 90th (I checked this one so maybe 1998 was another player). Ashley Cole was top tier in this one, feel he’s never quite got the plaudits he should as an England player
WC 2010 versus Portugal - Rooney gets the daft red card here, silly business. Still take it to pens. Owen Hargreaves was unreal in this game, shame he had such injury issues.
Some tournaments they were just pretty bad, WC 2014 especially memorably for me.
2018 and 2022 WC I think they could have squeaked through, ultimately they were playing better sides. I think overall Croatia and England weren’t far apart but Croatia had such an edge in midfield that it eventually told. France I think is a rare occasion where England went into a game as underdogs and actually did make a 50/50 of it and rather show up , ultimately falling a bit short.
So overall I think they’re a really thin margin here or there, a contentious ref decision for at least having a fair few more Ro8/Ro4 runs.
Of course the flipside of this is the occasions where England were the lucky ones, which tend to stick less in the memory a little less!
Checked other top european nations too (Briefly also checked Brazil and Argentina in world cups - and they are different. More big wins, and big losses, than for the European teams) Germany actually has a lot of clear defeats, 8 by 2 or more goals (not counting extra time) Spain has 4. Belgium has 5 Italy only has 2 Netherlands only 2 as well. France has 6 Portugal 3
So the main takehome is that for the top teams, they very rarely get crushed and a vast majority of the games between the top teams are draws or 1 goal defeats. This is since 1990 for all of these. I didn't include Croatia but I noticed they would have had way more 2+ goal losses.
|
Northern Ireland22218 Posts
On July 01 2024 14:59 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2024 01:42 sharkie wrote: England is the only country where you just push all world class players into the first team regardless of balance or if it works. Foden and Bellingham together dont work.. you have to decide on one of them. yeah this sums england up perfectly. its a repeat of the lampard/gerrard/scholes problem. the english have some obsession about having to play the big names with the best numbers and lose sight of what actually gives them the best team. I mean it’s not something especially unique to the English, I especially recall Brazil’s ‘golden square’ in 2006 but aye
Different eras too, I mean in mitigation 4-4-2 was more in vogue, in England particularly. I think Sven was a bit of a 4-4-2 zealot but one does have to remember that basically every single English side played that way, and basically every English player played in England.
So maybe you make a 4-3-3/4-5-1 work in hindsight, but you have a lot of players who aren’t accustomed to playing it.
On the flipside of that, I think Sven didn’t get much credit for when he was actually balancing thing and making things slot together. Folks slaughter him to this day for trying to cram England’s star midfielders in somehow. Also bear in mind England seemingly didn’t have a left footed player who played further up than fullback in that period.
But equally we gotta be fair to him employing folks like Peter Crouch and especially Emile Heskey, the latter despite constant criticism because they helped get the best out of Michael Owen and latterly Rooney with their characteristics. But they weren’t England’s star forwards at those times.
Or Nicky Butt playing, and playing very well in the 2002 World Cup, or latterly a Hargreaves who don’t really fit the mould of stars you’re trying to cram in.
It’s largely a pitfall Southgate has avoided too, although partly because he maybe hasn’t been blessed in particular areas. But he’s kept faith with a Maguire because of continuity/his attributes and some of his attributes, and has generally been reticent to throw Trent in at right back. Or all sorts of other selections that folks have been critical of.
I don’t think him trying Trent in midfield was an attempt to shoehorn him in because he’s such a talent, but because they genuinely thought his attributes would be an asset. The theory of him having the passing range against worse teams that would sit deep tbh makes some sense, it just didn’t really work. I don’t actually think it was Trent’s fault either he wasn’t terrible but if the team aren’t making runs there’s no point having a quarterback style player
I like his squad, I mean I just don’t think there’s players left at home (outside of a left back) who could really help things but he’s not using it well, that’s for sure. But aside from them generally playing badly it’s pretty clear where the problems are structurally, England fans can only hope they sort them!
Didn’t mean this to end up as quite the wall of text it became, but Sven’s honour was at stake!
|
Who do you mean by Sven? Genuine question, no sarcasm.
|
obviously managers have to take a lot of blame because they pick the teams, but my comment was more directed at the english fans in general. i think a large part of why english nt managers struggle with selection is because of the amount of pressure theyre under to play certain players because of the fans/media. i guess its fair to say that every manager with every national team feels this pressure, but it just seems to me that with england its worse. if southgate had bigger balls and didnt worry about any media backlash he would have done things a bit differently. him excluding rashford wasnt bravery, it was possible because even united fans had already turned on him and southgate would actually be crucified for taking him. rashford doesnt deserve to be there, but funnily enough i think england needs rashford in the squad right now. regardless of his league performance, his experience and the tournament atmosphere would have made him a better pick than gordon. if rashford had gone you dont have to worry about whether you keep kane up front, because you have players running in behind, which kane needs. now that rashford isnt there, southgate should honestly consider dropping kane for toney/watkins but he wont. then you have the problem of bellingham/foden and even saka all wanting to occupy similar spaces and someone (or 2) needs to be dropped there too. unfortunately they are each the biggest stars in their respective clubs. imagine a world where media doesnt exist and theres no way all of these players are playing together.
|
Northern Ireland22218 Posts
|
Thanks man
|
Northern Ireland22218 Posts
On July 01 2024 16:03 evilfatsh1t wrote: obviously managers have to take a lot of blame because they pick the teams, but my comment was more directed at the english fans in general. i think a large part of why english nt managers struggle with selection is because of the amount of pressure theyre under to play certain players because of the fans/media. i guess its fair to say that every manager with every national team feels this pressure, but it just seems to me that with england its worse. if southgate had bigger balls and didnt worry about any media backlash he would have done things a bit differently. him excluding rashford wasnt bravery, it was possible because even united fans had already turned on him and southgate would actually be crucified for taking him. rashford doesnt deserve to be there, but funnily enough i think england needs rashford in the squad right now. regardless of his league performance, his experience and the tournament atmosphere would have made him a better pick than gordon. if rashford had gone you dont have to worry about whether you keep kane up front, because you have players running in behind, which kane needs. now that rashford isnt there, southgate should honestly consider dropping kane for toney/watkins but he wont. then you have the problem of bellingham/foden and even saka all wanting to occupy similar spaces and someone (or 2) needs to be dropped there too. unfortunately they are each the biggest stars in their respective clubs. imagine a world where media doesnt exist and theres no way all of these players are playing together. Aye, although I think the issue is just not playing Gordon, but Rashford does have
Point taken, in a similar boat to Rashford I think you’ve got Grealish or Sterling who’ve served England well but had underwhelming seasons.
Grealish gives you a winger/10 who cuts in from the left in a squad where you have about 4 who do that from the left. And Sterling you have a nippy player who is right footed but plays on the right.
Not advocating for them necessarily but they do bring something a bit different. However I guess having options who can shake up the forward line’s thrust is kinda pointless if you’ve got a coach who’s so reticent to make in-game changes.
England and Southgate personally massively got out of jail there, they didn’t change the game from the bench, they left it too late. Again! Perhaps I’ve been too forgiving in the past, but this time around it’s criminal. I remember many an England squad where there’d be quite the drop-off in quality if a player was injured or just knackered and had to come off. Whereas now you’ve got quality options with different characteristics you can use.
If Foden’s having a rough day at the office you’ve got Cole Palmer for goodness sake.
I can see the argument in dropping Kane, but he’s kinda been so integral for England (and is just in general a class above) that how can you drop him now? He’s basically been the man for so long, has come through time and time again on the big stage, and his understudies haven’t got much of a look in, and when they have they haven’t looked electric.
I think a trick was missed to give them more time over the last while to acclimate them. Now, with England starting this campaign so badly too you’ve even less chance to give them that exposure. If England had guaranteed group winner’s earlier you can at least give them an outing. Aside from team cohesion, which I suspect is a big likely issue it’s a huge ask for those lads to hit the ground running on such a stage, with both that lack of game time as well as familiarity with this kind of often-crushing pressure
|
After the first four ro16 games, the only real surprise to me was how bad Italy was. Otherwise it's gone roughly as expected, both for results and performances.
Germany is definitely climbing up the ranks in my mind. Spain seems good but I don't know if they've really been tested this tournament. The group stage game against croatia was their toughest fixture so far in my mind, and that wasn't too tough either.
England - Switzerland will be interesting. On one hand the swiss definitely have put together a more solid performance, but England has enough individual quality and isn't *that* far off from clicking. Finally, Southgate has gotten England to the point of actually winning knock-out games, so that's really up in the air for me.
|
Northern Ireland22218 Posts
On July 01 2024 18:09 Oukka wrote: After the first four ro16 games, the only real surprise to me was how bad Italy was. Otherwise it's gone roughly as expected, both for results and performances.
Germany is definitely climbing up the ranks in my mind. Spain seems good but I don't know if they've really been tested this tournament. The group stage game against croatia was their toughest fixture so far in my mind, and that wasn't too tough either.
England - Switzerland will be interesting. On one hand the swiss definitely have put together a more solid performance, but England has enough individual quality and isn't *that* far off from clicking. Finally, Southgate has gotten England to the point of actually winning knock-out games, so that's really up in the air for me. I don’t think Italy quite have the squad but Spaletti really fucked up based on the group. They were fine against Albania despite the brutal start, decimated by Spain and Croatia was a bit laboured but a pretty 50/50 game albeit they weren’t great.
But it feels he freaked out at the slow/steady enough start and made a whole bunch of changes for the Ro16 clash with Switzerland and it was a shitshow.
Switzerland are having a good tournament, but I think people are sleeping a bit on quite how bad Italy were.
They laboured versus a very laborious Scottish side (land of my fathers bias aside), weren’t amazing against a pretty limited Hungary. Gotta give them props for a strong showing against Germany in a match with meaningful stakes though.
Having watched more of the Euros than is medically recommended I think Austria have probably impressed me more of the ‘dark horses’ so far.
England is an interesting matchup. Switzerland have definitely played better so far, but I think their rep is augmented by defeating Italy the name/reputation more than it should be based on Italy the team. And England have been pretty shit but 5th time lucky? Interesting fixture! Unfortunately with other home nations being eliminated I am now back to a familiar stance of singularly supporting England so this could be pretty painful
Much can change, it’s tournament football but Spain and Germany really do look the top 2 for me so it’s a shame they’re meeting so early. Very tight but Spain look to me that their plan and structure is just there and clicking. Germany look like the overall plan is there, a few parts haven’t quite settled although it’s largely working, and would be there if they played another 2 weeks of games. It’s a thin margin but I’d give it to Spain there. In a crude sense I think what Germany have been doing better than basically everyone else, Spain maybe do slightly better than them again. There’s not a huge stylistic clash, there are differences ofc. By virtue of a crude analogy if you’re a worse macro player than your opponent in SC2, maybe a cheeky cheese is your best bet, but I think Germany are locked into a macro game here.
Portugal looked decent and lost in a dead rubber game with a B team so wouldn’t really read too much into the latter. I think the rest is completely a crapshoot. You’ve flawed or underperforming teams and a few teams shooting above their strength on paper. Should be a fun remaining week or so!
|
On July 01 2024 18:46 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2024 18:09 Oukka wrote: After the first four ro16 games, the only real surprise to me was how bad Italy was. Otherwise it's gone roughly as expected, both for results and performances.
Germany is definitely climbing up the ranks in my mind. Spain seems good but I don't know if they've really been tested this tournament. The group stage game against croatia was their toughest fixture so far in my mind, and that wasn't too tough either.
England - Switzerland will be interesting. On one hand the swiss definitely have put together a more solid performance, but England has enough individual quality and isn't *that* far off from clicking. Finally, Southgate has gotten England to the point of actually winning knock-out games, so that's really up in the air for me. I don’t think Italy quite have the squad but Spaletti really fucked up based on the group. They were fine against Albania despite the brutal start, decimated by Spain and Croatia was a bit laboured but a pretty 50/50 game albeit they weren’t great. But it feels he freaked out at the slow/steady enough start and made a whole bunch of changes for the Ro16 clash with Switzerland and it was a shitshow. Switzerland are having a good tournament, but I think people are sleeping a bit on quite how bad Italy were. They laboured versus a very laborious Scottish side (land of my fathers bias aside), weren’t amazing against a pretty limited Hungary. Gotta give them props for a strong showing against Germany in a match with meaningful stakes though. Having watched more of the Euros than is medically recommended I think Austria have probably impressed me more of the ‘dark horses’ so far. England is an interesting matchup. Switzerland have definitely played better so far, but I think their rep is augmented by defeating Italy the name/reputation more than it should be based on Italy the team. And England have been pretty shit but 5th time lucky? Interesting fixture! Unfortunately with other home nations being eliminated I am now back to a familiar stance of singularly supporting England so this could be pretty painful Much can change, it’s tournament football but Spain and Germany really do look the top 2 for me so it’s a shame they’re meeting so early. Portugal looked decent and lost in a dead rubber game with a B team so wouldn’t really read too much into the latter. I think the rest is completely a crapshoot. You’ve flawed or underperforming teams and a few teams shooting above their strength on paper. Should be a fun remaining week or so! I don't know. For Italy the Croatia game was so underwhelming that I was really sad Italy made it through ahead of Croatia in the end. And pre-tourney I had penciled Italy in as one of the ro8 teams.
Otherwise agreed. Winner of Spain-Germany is my favourite for the finalist, probably for the entire cup as well.
Portugal didn't convince me so far, but they're in the same bucket with England that they have very good chances to keep grinding through the knock-out rounds, while constantly feeling somehow underwhelming.
|
|
|
|