• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:14
CEST 03:14
KST 10:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun12[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results02026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> WardiTV Spring Cup SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
[BSL22] RO16 Group A - Sunday 21:00 CEST [BSL22] RO16 Group B - Saturday 21:00 CEST Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8) RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2016 users

definition of skill ceiling

Blogs > HelpMeGetBetter
Post a Reply
HelpMeGetBetter
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States764 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-11 03:09:31
August 11 2024 03:08 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Me.

I’ve only seen 1 other player with a higher number. A couple others with high 30s.

Every goal I’ve set for myself, I have failed at. I cannot lower my goal any further.
Watching vods, streams, replays, live events, trying to find a coach, keeping my own spreadsheet of statistics - nothing works. Spent 12 years on this.
Starcraft is my favorite game - and it still is. Just which I could be a little better, but whatever talent is required to reach the next level, I simply don’t have it.

Rant over. Had to vent.

JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17486 Posts
August 11 2024 09:15 GMT
#2
Only play when the game is fun. The nano second you are not 100% amped to play. Do something else. If this means you are only playing 10 days a month... so be it.

Try some brain balancing exercises. Employ some deep relaxation techniques. Go shoot some hoops. Make yourself a decent basketball player. Go to a batting cage and hit some baseballs. In other words, Improve your base level of athleticism. At that point, revisit SC2.

Create a new account in SC2 that is your experimentation account. Split your play time into 2 sections. Section 1. Playing to Win At All Costs. Section 2: Experimentation Play.

Experiment with watching the mini map 70% of the time. I don't care how many armies you lose. Watch the mini map. Move hotkeyed groups via the minimap and not the main map. Employ many disorienting techniques that other players use when they play. This experimentation account might end up in Gold. Who cares.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1923 Posts
August 13 2024 11:46 GMT
#3
On August 11 2024 12:08 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
[image loading]

Me.

I’ve only seen 1 other player with a higher number. A couple others with high 30s.

Every goal I’ve set for myself, I have failed at. I cannot lower my goal any further.
Watching vods, streams, replays, live events, trying to find a coach, keeping my own spreadsheet of statistics - nothing works. Spent 12 years on this.
Starcraft is my favorite game - and it still is. Just which I could be a little better, but whatever talent is required to reach the next level, I simply don’t have it.

Rant over. Had to vent.


This probably won't give you any relief, but just because you're in diamond doesn't mean you haven't improved. The game is only as hard as the people you play against and mmr only exists to express your standing among other players. If everyone keeps getting better (you included) you're going to stay at a similar mmr, even if you've improved a bunch over the years.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
HelpMeGetBetter
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States764 Posts
August 14 2024 00:12 GMT
#4
On August 13 2024 20:46 Mizenhauer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2024 12:08 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
[image loading]

Me.

I’ve only seen 1 other player with a higher number. A couple others with high 30s.

Every goal I’ve set for myself, I have failed at. I cannot lower my goal any further.
Watching vods, streams, replays, live events, trying to find a coach, keeping my own spreadsheet of statistics - nothing works. Spent 12 years on this.
Starcraft is my favorite game - and it still is. Just which I could be a little better, but whatever talent is required to reach the next level, I simply don’t have it.

Rant over. Had to vent.


This probably won't give you any relief, but just because you're in diamond doesn't mean you haven't improved. The game is only as hard as the people you play against and mmr only exists to express your standing among other players. If everyone keeps getting better (you included) you're going to stay at a similar mmr, even if you've improved a bunch over the years.


my MMR has not stayed the same or gone up, it actually has gone down. further proving skill ceiling exist.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10317 Posts
September 07 2024 17:03 GMT
#5
On August 14 2024 09:12 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2024 20:46 Mizenhauer wrote:
On August 11 2024 12:08 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
[image loading]

Me.

I’ve only seen 1 other player with a higher number. A couple others with high 30s.

Every goal I’ve set for myself, I have failed at. I cannot lower my goal any further.
Watching vods, streams, replays, live events, trying to find a coach, keeping my own spreadsheet of statistics - nothing works. Spent 12 years on this.
Starcraft is my favorite game - and it still is. Just which I could be a little better, but whatever talent is required to reach the next level, I simply don’t have it.

Rant over. Had to vent.


This probably won't give you any relief, but just because you're in diamond doesn't mean you haven't improved. The game is only as hard as the people you play against and mmr only exists to express your standing among other players. If everyone keeps getting better (you included) you're going to stay at a similar mmr, even if you've improved a bunch over the years.


my MMR has not stayed the same or gone up, it actually has gone down. further proving skill ceiling exist.

He's saying the skill you have now has to be far greater than it was 12 years ago for you to still be able to hit Diamond. The player you were 12 years ago who hit Diamond wouldn't make it out of Gold today, or something like that.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26760 Posts
September 13 2024 20:21 GMT
#6
On August 11 2024 18:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Only play when the game is fun. The nano second you are not 100% amped to play. Do something else. If this means you are only playing 10 days a month... so be it.

Try some brain balancing exercises. Employ some deep relaxation techniques. Go shoot some hoops. Make yourself a decent basketball player. Go to a batting cage and hit some baseballs. In other words, Improve your base level of athleticism. At that point, revisit SC2.

Create a new account in SC2 that is your experimentation account. Split your play time into 2 sections. Section 1. Playing to Win At All Costs. Section 2: Experimentation Play.

Experiment with watching the mini map 70% of the time. I don't care how many armies you lose. Watch the mini map. Move hotkeyed groups via the minimap and not the main map. Employ many disorienting techniques that other players use when they play. This experimentation account might end up in Gold. Who cares.

Great suggestions
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
HelpMeGetBetter
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States764 Posts
September 15 2024 02:12 GMT
#7
On September 14 2024 05:21 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2024 18:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Only play when the game is fun. The nano second you are not 100% amped to play. Do something else. If this means you are only playing 10 days a month... so be it.

Try some brain balancing exercises. Employ some deep relaxation techniques. Go shoot some hoops. Make yourself a decent basketball player. Go to a batting cage and hit some baseballs. In other words, Improve your base level of athleticism. At that point, revisit SC2.

Create a new account in SC2 that is your experimentation account. Split your play time into 2 sections. Section 1. Playing to Win At All Costs. Section 2: Experimentation Play.

Experiment with watching the mini map 70% of the time. I don't care how many armies you lose. Watch the mini map. Move hotkeyed groups via the minimap and not the main map. Employ many disorienting techniques that other players use when they play. This experimentation account might end up in Gold. Who cares.

Great suggestions


I've tried it all throughout the years. Crated new accounts and everything.
"This time its going to be different"
And never is. Just end up the same place as always - not even close to my goal. Always hitting that wall.
If I had the talent or whatever is needed for this, I would have succeeded a long time ago. I just don't have it.

Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2026 GSL S1: Ro12 Group A
CranKy Ducklings77
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft322
SpeCial 211
ROOTCatZ 44
ProTech30
RuFF_SC2 20
Dota 2
monkeys_forever888
League of Legends
Doublelift3790
Counter-Strike
fl0m4053
taco 298
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0401
Other Games
gofns12795
tarik_tv9378
summit1g7162
JimRising 324
WinterStarcraft156
ViBE54
amsayoshi11
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick897
BasetradeTV145
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream63
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 22
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1197
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 46m
RSL Revival
8h 46m
Classic vs GgMaChine
Rogue vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
9h 46m
Percival vs Shameless
ByuN vs YoungYakov
IPSL
14h 46m
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
17h 46m
Replay Cast
22h 46m
RSL Revival
1d 8h
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 12h
BSL
1d 17h
IPSL
1d 17h
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
[ Show More ]
Patches Events
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
GSL
4 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
5 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
Replay Cast
5 days
Escore
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W5
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.