• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:39
CEST 16:39
KST 23:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)67ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Is the larve respawn broken? The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK #4 20-21th June
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) BW General Discussion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6773 users

definition of skill ceiling

Blogs > HelpMeGetBetter
Post a Reply
HelpMeGetBetter
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States766 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-11 03:09:31
August 11 2024 03:08 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Me.

I’ve only seen 1 other player with a higher number. A couple others with high 30s.

Every goal I’ve set for myself, I have failed at. I cannot lower my goal any further.
Watching vods, streams, replays, live events, trying to find a coach, keeping my own spreadsheet of statistics - nothing works. Spent 12 years on this.
Starcraft is my favorite game - and it still is. Just which I could be a little better, but whatever talent is required to reach the next level, I simply don’t have it.

Rant over. Had to vent.

JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17642 Posts
August 11 2024 09:15 GMT
#2
Only play when the game is fun. The nano second you are not 100% amped to play. Do something else. If this means you are only playing 10 days a month... so be it.

Try some brain balancing exercises. Employ some deep relaxation techniques. Go shoot some hoops. Make yourself a decent basketball player. Go to a batting cage and hit some baseballs. In other words, Improve your base level of athleticism. At that point, revisit SC2.

Create a new account in SC2 that is your experimentation account. Split your play time into 2 sections. Section 1. Playing to Win At All Costs. Section 2: Experimentation Play.

Experiment with watching the mini map 70% of the time. I don't care how many armies you lose. Watch the mini map. Move hotkeyed groups via the minimap and not the main map. Employ many disorienting techniques that other players use when they play. This experimentation account might end up in Gold. Who cares.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1939 Posts
August 13 2024 11:46 GMT
#3
On August 11 2024 12:08 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
[image loading]

Me.

I’ve only seen 1 other player with a higher number. A couple others with high 30s.

Every goal I’ve set for myself, I have failed at. I cannot lower my goal any further.
Watching vods, streams, replays, live events, trying to find a coach, keeping my own spreadsheet of statistics - nothing works. Spent 12 years on this.
Starcraft is my favorite game - and it still is. Just which I could be a little better, but whatever talent is required to reach the next level, I simply don’t have it.

Rant over. Had to vent.


This probably won't give you any relief, but just because you're in diamond doesn't mean you haven't improved. The game is only as hard as the people you play against and mmr only exists to express your standing among other players. If everyone keeps getting better (you included) you're going to stay at a similar mmr, even if you've improved a bunch over the years.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
HelpMeGetBetter
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States766 Posts
August 14 2024 00:12 GMT
#4
On August 13 2024 20:46 Mizenhauer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2024 12:08 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
[image loading]

Me.

I’ve only seen 1 other player with a higher number. A couple others with high 30s.

Every goal I’ve set for myself, I have failed at. I cannot lower my goal any further.
Watching vods, streams, replays, live events, trying to find a coach, keeping my own spreadsheet of statistics - nothing works. Spent 12 years on this.
Starcraft is my favorite game - and it still is. Just which I could be a little better, but whatever talent is required to reach the next level, I simply don’t have it.

Rant over. Had to vent.


This probably won't give you any relief, but just because you're in diamond doesn't mean you haven't improved. The game is only as hard as the people you play against and mmr only exists to express your standing among other players. If everyone keeps getting better (you included) you're going to stay at a similar mmr, even if you've improved a bunch over the years.


my MMR has not stayed the same or gone up, it actually has gone down. further proving skill ceiling exist.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10336 Posts
September 07 2024 17:03 GMT
#5
On August 14 2024 09:12 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2024 20:46 Mizenhauer wrote:
On August 11 2024 12:08 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
[image loading]

Me.

I’ve only seen 1 other player with a higher number. A couple others with high 30s.

Every goal I’ve set for myself, I have failed at. I cannot lower my goal any further.
Watching vods, streams, replays, live events, trying to find a coach, keeping my own spreadsheet of statistics - nothing works. Spent 12 years on this.
Starcraft is my favorite game - and it still is. Just which I could be a little better, but whatever talent is required to reach the next level, I simply don’t have it.

Rant over. Had to vent.


This probably won't give you any relief, but just because you're in diamond doesn't mean you haven't improved. The game is only as hard as the people you play against and mmr only exists to express your standing among other players. If everyone keeps getting better (you included) you're going to stay at a similar mmr, even if you've improved a bunch over the years.


my MMR has not stayed the same or gone up, it actually has gone down. further proving skill ceiling exist.

He's saying the skill you have now has to be far greater than it was 12 years ago for you to still be able to hit Diamond. The player you were 12 years ago who hit Diamond wouldn't make it out of Gold today, or something like that.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27041 Posts
September 13 2024 20:21 GMT
#6
On August 11 2024 18:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Only play when the game is fun. The nano second you are not 100% amped to play. Do something else. If this means you are only playing 10 days a month... so be it.

Try some brain balancing exercises. Employ some deep relaxation techniques. Go shoot some hoops. Make yourself a decent basketball player. Go to a batting cage and hit some baseballs. In other words, Improve your base level of athleticism. At that point, revisit SC2.

Create a new account in SC2 that is your experimentation account. Split your play time into 2 sections. Section 1. Playing to Win At All Costs. Section 2: Experimentation Play.

Experiment with watching the mini map 70% of the time. I don't care how many armies you lose. Watch the mini map. Move hotkeyed groups via the minimap and not the main map. Employ many disorienting techniques that other players use when they play. This experimentation account might end up in Gold. Who cares.

Great suggestions
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
HelpMeGetBetter
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States766 Posts
September 15 2024 02:12 GMT
#7
On September 14 2024 05:21 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2024 18:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Only play when the game is fun. The nano second you are not 100% amped to play. Do something else. If this means you are only playing 10 days a month... so be it.

Try some brain balancing exercises. Employ some deep relaxation techniques. Go shoot some hoops. Make yourself a decent basketball player. Go to a batting cage and hit some baseballs. In other words, Improve your base level of athleticism. At that point, revisit SC2.

Create a new account in SC2 that is your experimentation account. Split your play time into 2 sections. Section 1. Playing to Win At All Costs. Section 2: Experimentation Play.

Experiment with watching the mini map 70% of the time. I don't care how many armies you lose. Watch the mini map. Move hotkeyed groups via the minimap and not the main map. Employ many disorienting techniques that other players use when they play. This experimentation account might end up in Gold. Who cares.

Great suggestions


I've tried it all throughout the years. Crated new accounts and everything.
"This time its going to be different"
And never is. Just end up the same place as always - not even close to my goal. Always hitting that wall.
If I had the talent or whatever is needed for this, I would have succeeded a long time ago. I just don't have it.

Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Douyu Cup 2020
05:00
2026 - Day 2
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Rex72
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 678
elazer 174
ProTech154
Rex 72
MindelVK 57
SHIN 56
trigger 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 30178
Shuttle 1868
Jaedong 1169
Light 1084
BeSt 826
ggaemo 744
EffOrt 734
Soulkey 540
Soma 380
Snow 266
[ Show more ]
hero 151
Mong 129
Rush 125
Sharp 102
Zeus 100
Pusan 54
Mind 41
ToSsGirL 35
Hm[arnc] 29
JYJ 26
HiyA 24
PianO 23
GoRush 19
Terrorterran 17
yabsab 17
Rock 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Sacsri 9
Noble 8
Dota 2
qojqva1115
420jenkins206
League of Legends
JimRising 418
Counter-Strike
byalli500
zeus393
Other Games
singsing3166
hiko844
B2W.Neo774
Lowko650
crisheroes299
Sick218
Hui .203
DeMusliM144
KnowMe98
QueenE79
djWHEAT73
Fuzer 57
Mew2King52
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream13499
Other Games
BasetradeTV210
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 27
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• iHatsuTV 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2812
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
1h 21m
Jumy vs eGGz
Harstem vs sebesdes
TriGGeR vs HeRoMaRinE
Douyu Cup 2020
14h 21m
Maestros of the Game
21h 51m
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
23h 21m
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 14h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 23h
Online Event
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
Bombastic Starleague
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
OSC
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Bombastic Starleague
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSCL: Masked Kings S4
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.