• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:03
CEST 00:03
KST 07:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo17Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? Yamato Cup Series What kind of tool would you be interested in? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
GSL CK #4 20-21th June Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ STARCRAFT MOVIE - Last Night at the Command center BW General Discussion Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8107 users

definition of skill ceiling

Blogs > HelpMeGetBetter
Post a Reply
HelpMeGetBetter
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States765 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-11 03:09:31
August 11 2024 03:08 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Me.

I’ve only seen 1 other player with a higher number. A couple others with high 30s.

Every goal I’ve set for myself, I have failed at. I cannot lower my goal any further.
Watching vods, streams, replays, live events, trying to find a coach, keeping my own spreadsheet of statistics - nothing works. Spent 12 years on this.
Starcraft is my favorite game - and it still is. Just which I could be a little better, but whatever talent is required to reach the next level, I simply don’t have it.

Rant over. Had to vent.

JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17618 Posts
August 11 2024 09:15 GMT
#2
Only play when the game is fun. The nano second you are not 100% amped to play. Do something else. If this means you are only playing 10 days a month... so be it.

Try some brain balancing exercises. Employ some deep relaxation techniques. Go shoot some hoops. Make yourself a decent basketball player. Go to a batting cage and hit some baseballs. In other words, Improve your base level of athleticism. At that point, revisit SC2.

Create a new account in SC2 that is your experimentation account. Split your play time into 2 sections. Section 1. Playing to Win At All Costs. Section 2: Experimentation Play.

Experiment with watching the mini map 70% of the time. I don't care how many armies you lose. Watch the mini map. Move hotkeyed groups via the minimap and not the main map. Employ many disorienting techniques that other players use when they play. This experimentation account might end up in Gold. Who cares.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1934 Posts
August 13 2024 11:46 GMT
#3
On August 11 2024 12:08 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
[image loading]

Me.

I’ve only seen 1 other player with a higher number. A couple others with high 30s.

Every goal I’ve set for myself, I have failed at. I cannot lower my goal any further.
Watching vods, streams, replays, live events, trying to find a coach, keeping my own spreadsheet of statistics - nothing works. Spent 12 years on this.
Starcraft is my favorite game - and it still is. Just which I could be a little better, but whatever talent is required to reach the next level, I simply don’t have it.

Rant over. Had to vent.


This probably won't give you any relief, but just because you're in diamond doesn't mean you haven't improved. The game is only as hard as the people you play against and mmr only exists to express your standing among other players. If everyone keeps getting better (you included) you're going to stay at a similar mmr, even if you've improved a bunch over the years.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
HelpMeGetBetter
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States765 Posts
August 14 2024 00:12 GMT
#4
On August 13 2024 20:46 Mizenhauer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2024 12:08 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
[image loading]

Me.

I’ve only seen 1 other player with a higher number. A couple others with high 30s.

Every goal I’ve set for myself, I have failed at. I cannot lower my goal any further.
Watching vods, streams, replays, live events, trying to find a coach, keeping my own spreadsheet of statistics - nothing works. Spent 12 years on this.
Starcraft is my favorite game - and it still is. Just which I could be a little better, but whatever talent is required to reach the next level, I simply don’t have it.

Rant over. Had to vent.


This probably won't give you any relief, but just because you're in diamond doesn't mean you haven't improved. The game is only as hard as the people you play against and mmr only exists to express your standing among other players. If everyone keeps getting better (you included) you're going to stay at a similar mmr, even if you've improved a bunch over the years.


my MMR has not stayed the same or gone up, it actually has gone down. further proving skill ceiling exist.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10336 Posts
September 07 2024 17:03 GMT
#5
On August 14 2024 09:12 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2024 20:46 Mizenhauer wrote:
On August 11 2024 12:08 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
[image loading]

Me.

I’ve only seen 1 other player with a higher number. A couple others with high 30s.

Every goal I’ve set for myself, I have failed at. I cannot lower my goal any further.
Watching vods, streams, replays, live events, trying to find a coach, keeping my own spreadsheet of statistics - nothing works. Spent 12 years on this.
Starcraft is my favorite game - and it still is. Just which I could be a little better, but whatever talent is required to reach the next level, I simply don’t have it.

Rant over. Had to vent.


This probably won't give you any relief, but just because you're in diamond doesn't mean you haven't improved. The game is only as hard as the people you play against and mmr only exists to express your standing among other players. If everyone keeps getting better (you included) you're going to stay at a similar mmr, even if you've improved a bunch over the years.


my MMR has not stayed the same or gone up, it actually has gone down. further proving skill ceiling exist.

He's saying the skill you have now has to be far greater than it was 12 years ago for you to still be able to hit Diamond. The player you were 12 years ago who hit Diamond wouldn't make it out of Gold today, or something like that.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27015 Posts
September 13 2024 20:21 GMT
#6
On August 11 2024 18:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Only play when the game is fun. The nano second you are not 100% amped to play. Do something else. If this means you are only playing 10 days a month... so be it.

Try some brain balancing exercises. Employ some deep relaxation techniques. Go shoot some hoops. Make yourself a decent basketball player. Go to a batting cage and hit some baseballs. In other words, Improve your base level of athleticism. At that point, revisit SC2.

Create a new account in SC2 that is your experimentation account. Split your play time into 2 sections. Section 1. Playing to Win At All Costs. Section 2: Experimentation Play.

Experiment with watching the mini map 70% of the time. I don't care how many armies you lose. Watch the mini map. Move hotkeyed groups via the minimap and not the main map. Employ many disorienting techniques that other players use when they play. This experimentation account might end up in Gold. Who cares.

Great suggestions
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
HelpMeGetBetter
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States765 Posts
September 15 2024 02:12 GMT
#7
On September 14 2024 05:21 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2024 18:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Only play when the game is fun. The nano second you are not 100% amped to play. Do something else. If this means you are only playing 10 days a month... so be it.

Try some brain balancing exercises. Employ some deep relaxation techniques. Go shoot some hoops. Make yourself a decent basketball player. Go to a batting cage and hit some baseballs. In other words, Improve your base level of athleticism. At that point, revisit SC2.

Create a new account in SC2 that is your experimentation account. Split your play time into 2 sections. Section 1. Playing to Win At All Costs. Section 2: Experimentation Play.

Experiment with watching the mini map 70% of the time. I don't care how many armies you lose. Watch the mini map. Move hotkeyed groups via the minimap and not the main map. Employ many disorienting techniques that other players use when they play. This experimentation account might end up in Gold. Who cares.

Great suggestions


I've tried it all throughout the years. Crated new accounts and everything.
"This time its going to be different"
And never is. Just end up the same place as always - not even close to my goal. Always hitting that wall.
If I had the talent or whatever is needed for this, I would have succeeded a long time ago. I just don't have it.

Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
19:00
Group Stage - Day 4
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
LiquipediaDiscussion
Patches Events
17:00
Patches' Patch Clash #8
RotterdaM867
davetesta21
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 867
ByuN 773
CosmosSc2 107
Railgan 46
Livibee 34
ProTech10
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 65
NaDa 9
Dota 2
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Doublelift5080
Counter-Strike
summit1g7106
Other Games
Grubby4940
singsing1664
C9.Mang0615
NeuroSwarm93
UpATreeSC22
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1417
BasetradeTV92
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 29
• Pr0nogo 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1532
• Shiphtur188
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 57m
WardiTV Weekly
12h 57m
Monday Night Weeklies
17h 57m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 11h
The PondCast
2 days
Douyu Cup 2020
3 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
[ Show More ]
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light HT
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.