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On May 12 2024 21:33 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2024 17:22 Acrofales wrote: Unlike Euphorbus's umpteenth alt, I am happy Cerebrate is here to discuss their opinion with us. I don't need this to be an echo chamber where we only talk with entirely like-minded people about how it's crazy that we all agree.
I think it's entirely fair to ask both sides to de-escalate. I also think that neither Hamas nor Israel has shown the slightest interest in de-escalation. And of the two, Israel is by far the greater power. And that's where the shoe rubs, because if this was only about Gaza, I'd maybe sympathise with a point of view that sees October 7 as the straw that broke the camel's back when it comes to Palestinians' support for Hamas. However, while engaging in a full scale war in Gaza, Israeli settlers have steadily amped up violence in the West Bank as well, where Hamas is not in power, with explicit government and military support. And I very much agree with Magic Powers when he doubts Israel's good intentions for their utopian plan with Gaza when they are treating the West Bank the way they do. Broetchenholer's metaphor about taking our the trash was apt. Indeed, and as concessions go it’s a hell of a lot easier to halt settlement expansion than something like removing Hamas, or a similar entity from Palestinian political and cultural life. There’s plenty ambiguous grey in this conflict, but further settlement expansion to me has long been something of a clear-cut, black and white issue.
But realistically there's nothing the Palestinians can do to stop settlements. And they are also the ones suffering and dying right now. Hamas going away and accepting a peaceplan is the only option they got if they want to change something.
It's not morally right that they would have to surrender and Israel has to do nothing. It's wrong. But right now the only things keeping IDF out of Rafah is either international pressure or or the morality of Israels government (not so likely?). It would make sense to choose a strategy that appeals to both. Because it's not figthing and it's not terrorism and both those things will just make things worse.
So back to the ancient Greek arguments again.
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On May 13 2024 04:31 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2024 20:09 Magic Powers wrote:On May 12 2024 14:41 pmp10 wrote:On May 12 2024 02:52 Magic Powers wrote:On May 12 2024 00:57 pmp10 wrote: The war will likely be resolved before any starvation takes place. US will not allow mass famine that can be tied to their actions. Even Biden has limits to the political damage he is willing to take for Israel. Reports of widespread starvation have been piling up since at least February and it's been affecting one third of the population for several months, with numbers rising just as predicted. Are there actually signs of Biden being afraid of the fallout? Is he willing to cut military ties? Because that's the only real consequence Netanyahu could be afraid of. Famine will be called when it's already too late. By then it'll also be too late to warn Israel. Are there any reports of Biden properly addressing the threat of famine? The aid deliveries to Gaza have been resumed mostly because of US pressure. There were food drops before and also there is that delivery dock the US is building. Expecting Biden to do more is not realistic, the threat of famine is overblown and pressure on him and US is nowhere that strong. The article makes very clear that the threat of famine is real and should be taken extremely seriously. It is absolutely NOT "overblown" as you call it for some reason unbeknownst to me. Where do you get your information from? What makes you more knowledgeable than the people who are analyzing the threat of famine? I've heard enough political attacks to know one, if we want to see real potential for famine we can look at Sudan. As for authority on starvation - I'm sure I can find plenty in Israel saying that it's not happening in Gaza. The war is simply past the famine point. Israel has tried to use it, but it either didn't work or they were forced to give-up.
I'm not even sure what you're saying, the only thing I know is that you're denying reality. The only reason why famine hasn't been officially declared yet is that the threshold required for an official declaration hasn't been met. That doesn't mean widespread starvation isn't already happening. People are starving and have been starving for several months, and if more people begin to starve then famine will be declared officially. And, as I said, by that point it'll be too late to stop the deaths of thousands of people. People have died of starvation as a direct consequence of the war, and the numbers have grown continuously. This is factually true and cannot be denied.
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Let's be real about famines. A real famine is one of the most devastating things that can happen to human civilization. It can and has killed millions. In modern times, there have been famines killing hundreds of thousands. Those deaths is obviously not what we are seeing in Gaza. And deaths are not the sole impact of famine. Babies and kids that grow up during a famine are permanently affected. People in Europe who grew up during the 1944-1945 famine score lower for a whole bunch of health parameters, including cognitive and metabolic.
The problem with Gaza is that Israel is deliberately using starvation as a weapon. At any moment since Oct7th, hundreds of trucks have always been held up at the Gaza border. Yes, eventually many of them have been let in. But always with delays. There's a reason why all those countries did air drops of food. Air drops that literally directly killed people. And Israel is still allowing or causing itself delays. Including allowing protestors to block trucks who literally say that no one in Gaza should eat until Hamas has released all hostages.
At the same time, I do not expect hundreds of people to die of famine. But all those small kids and babies growing up in Gaza right now will be permanently affected in their health and development because they didn't get the right nutrition. And I believe that is the plan. Somehow the idea is that if Palestinians go through enough misery, they will just go away. A strange idea, because they have no where to go. I guess the assumption is that eventually something has to give. And if that is not Israel, it means that Arab countries are going to be forces to take up hundreds of thousands of refugees from Palestine. And to make them permanent citizens without a right to return. And that Gaza will be a largely empty desert buffer state while the West Bank will be annexed, and most Palestinians there will eventually leave for say Jordan. This is why proIsrael people often say "Why doesn't UEA/Egypt/Jordan/Saudi/Qatar/Oman take up Palestinian refugees and give them citizenship, like Europe does." Arguably, they should. But it also explains why Israel wants to kill tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians and starve millions of them. That's their goal.
It won't lead to an actual famine with thousands dying. It won't lead to genocide. But it is a war crime and a terrible attempt to make a two state solution impossible.
Also, the idea that Egypt/Saudi/Jordan are going to ally, invade Gaza on Israel's behalf, completely eliminate Hamas through urban warfare, which then causes all Hamas members to surrender so they can be put on trial, and then the Palestinians remain do everything Israel asks from them. And that turns Gaza into the Singapore of the Middle East on steroids, like in those cgi images of Gaza is completely absurd. Let's face it, those cgi images of how Gaza would look if they just did what Israel told them, look better than anything in Israel right now. The idea that the people in Gaza could be richer than the richest people in Dubai, but they simply choose not to be so because they are so antisemetic and bloodthirsty they just want to kill Jews, is absurd and sickening. Especially if you compare those cgi images that Israel made side by side with how Israel actually made Gaza look today. It is the most shallow example of proIsrael propaganda I have ever seen. And no one should even take it seriously.
It actually turns out it is really really hard to be economically prosperous in the Middle East today if you don't have oil. Look at what an economic shitshow Lebanon is. Yes, Israel is an economic miracle in a sense. And those Israeli who worked hard and competent to build their country deserve a lot of credit.
But what doesn't get mentioned is that they got a lot of foreign aid. And when Gaza eventually has to be rebuild, probably with Saudi and Emirati money, all that money has traditionally been funneled into the Israeli economy. Because Israeli construction companies have always been the ones to provide all the streel, concrete, man power, etc. So for every bomb Israel drops, they get free money to rebuild it eventually.
The rebuilding of Gaza is already said to cost 40 billion USD. And with those costs, come profits. And some people are going to get very rich off of rebuilding Gaza. And it just happens to turn out that construction is the most corruption-sensitive of all industries, and since humans started to building stuff it has been a magnet for corrupt officials and organized crime.
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For anyone who doesn't believe that famine is already happening in Gaza, please read the original article. This is from May 6, just last week.
https://apnews.com/article/gaza-famine-world-food-program-israel-hamas-war-476941bf2dc259f85a706408b2a665ff
This is the most critical part:
"WHAT A FAMINE MEANS
According to the IPC, an area is considered to be in famine when three things occur: 20% of households have an extreme lack of food, or essentially starving; at least 30% of children suffer from acute malnutrition or wasting, meaning they’re too thin for their height; and two adults or four children per every 10,000 people are dying daily of hunger and its complications.
In northern Gaza, the first condition of extreme lack of food has been met, senior WFP spokesman Steve Taravella told The Associated Press. The second condition of child acute malnutrition is nearly met, he said. But the death rate could not be verified.
Doing so is difficult. Aid groups note that Israeli airstrikes and raids have devastated medical facilities in northern Gaza and displaced much of the population. Along with restrictions on access, they complicate the ability to formally collect data on deaths.
A document explaining famine published in March by the IPC noted, however, that an area can be classified as “famine with reasonable evidence” if two of the three thresholds have been reached and analysts believe from available evidence that the third likely has been reached.
“The bottom line is that people are practically dying from a lack of food, water and medicines. If we are waiting for the moment when all the facts are in hand to verify the final conditions to scientifically declare a famine, it would be after thousands of people have perished,” Taravella said."
Here's why Israel is denying that any (!) level of famine is happening anywhere (!) in Gaza:
"Famine had been projected in parts of Gaza this month in a March report by the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification, a global initiative that includes WFP as a partner. It said nearly a third of Gaza’s population was experiencing the highest level of catastrophic hunger, and that could rise to nearly half by July.
The next IPC report is expected in July. Israel strongly rejects any claims of famine in Gaza, and its humanitarian agency called McCain’s assertion incorrect. A formal declaration could be used as evidence at the International Criminal Court as well as at the International Court of Justice, where Israel faces allegations of genocide in a case brought by South Africa."
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It's a war zone there, of course famine, rape, various abuse, miserable conditions, total disregard for human rights and mass death among civilians is to be expected, why would anyone not believe it's happening?
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On May 13 2024 20:37 Magic Powers wrote:For anyone who doesn't believe that famine is already happening in Gaza, please read the original article. This is from May 6, just last week. https://apnews.com/article/gaza-famine-world-food-program-israel-hamas-war-476941bf2dc259f85a706408b2a665ffThis is the most critical part: "WHAT A FAMINE MEANS According to the IPC, an area is considered to be in famine when three things occur: 20% of households have an extreme lack of food, or essentially starving; at least 30% of children suffer from acute malnutrition or wasting, meaning they’re too thin for their height; and two adults or four children per every 10,000 people are dying daily of hunger and its complications. In northern Gaza, the first condition of extreme lack of food has been met, senior WFP spokesman Steve Taravella told The Associated Press. The second condition of child acute malnutrition is nearly met, he said. But the death rate could not be verified. Doing so is difficult. Aid groups note that Israeli airstrikes and raids have devastated medical facilities in northern Gaza and displaced much of the population. Along with restrictions on access, they complicate the ability to formally collect data on deaths. A document explaining famine published in March by the IPC noted, however, that an area can be classified as “famine with reasonable evidence” if two of the three thresholds have been reached and analysts believe from available evidence that the third likely has been reached.“ The bottom line is that people are practically dying from a lack of food, water and medicines. If we are waiting for the moment when all the facts are in hand to verify the final conditions to scientifically declare a famine, it would be after thousands of people have perished,” Taravella said." Here's why Israel is denying that any (!) level of famine is happening anywhere (!) in Gaza: "Famine had been projected in parts of Gaza this month in a March report by the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification, a global initiative that includes WFP as a partner. It said nearly a third of Gaza’s population was experiencing the highest level of catastrophic hunger, and that could rise to nearly half by July. The next IPC report is expected in July. Israel strongly rejects any claims of famine in Gaza, and its humanitarian agency called McCain’s assertion incorrect. A formal declaration could be used as evidence at the International Criminal Court as well as at the International Court of Justice, where Israel faces allegations of genocide in a case brought by South Africa." See that is why I don't get you. Even with the standards of this arbitrary definition and outdated report they have to resort to moving the goalposts on the criteria and the number of dead. You likely understand how far the situation is from the image of hundreds of skeletal corpses that 'famine' usually conjures up in peoples minds.
Let me ask you a question - do you think any official declaration of famine in Gaza would change anything substantial? Maybe aside from the number of aid trucks allowed in.
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On May 13 2024 21:51 JoinTheRain wrote: It's a war zone there, of course famine, rape, various abuse, miserable conditions, total disregard for human rights and mass death among civilians is to be expected, why would anyone not believe it's happening? Weird how we can say this so callously about Gaza and not Israel (nor should we, loss of life in Israel is fucked).
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On May 13 2024 22:16 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2024 20:37 Magic Powers wrote:For anyone who doesn't believe that famine is already happening in Gaza, please read the original article. This is from May 6, just last week. https://apnews.com/article/gaza-famine-world-food-program-israel-hamas-war-476941bf2dc259f85a706408b2a665ffThis is the most critical part: "WHAT A FAMINE MEANS According to the IPC, an area is considered to be in famine when three things occur: 20% of households have an extreme lack of food, or essentially starving; at least 30% of children suffer from acute malnutrition or wasting, meaning they’re too thin for their height; and two adults or four children per every 10,000 people are dying daily of hunger and its complications. In northern Gaza, the first condition of extreme lack of food has been met, senior WFP spokesman Steve Taravella told The Associated Press. The second condition of child acute malnutrition is nearly met, he said. But the death rate could not be verified. Doing so is difficult. Aid groups note that Israeli airstrikes and raids have devastated medical facilities in northern Gaza and displaced much of the population. Along with restrictions on access, they complicate the ability to formally collect data on deaths. A document explaining famine published in March by the IPC noted, however, that an area can be classified as “famine with reasonable evidence” if two of the three thresholds have been reached and analysts believe from available evidence that the third likely has been reached.“ The bottom line is that people are practically dying from a lack of food, water and medicines. If we are waiting for the moment when all the facts are in hand to verify the final conditions to scientifically declare a famine, it would be after thousands of people have perished,” Taravella said." Here's why Israel is denying that any (!) level of famine is happening anywhere (!) in Gaza: "Famine had been projected in parts of Gaza this month in a March report by the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification, a global initiative that includes WFP as a partner. It said nearly a third of Gaza’s population was experiencing the highest level of catastrophic hunger, and that could rise to nearly half by July. The next IPC report is expected in July. Israel strongly rejects any claims of famine in Gaza, and its humanitarian agency called McCain’s assertion incorrect. A formal declaration could be used as evidence at the International Criminal Court as well as at the International Court of Justice, where Israel faces allegations of genocide in a case brought by South Africa." See that is why I don't get you. Even with the standards of this arbitrary definition and outdated report they have to resort to moving the goalposts on the criteria and the number of dead. You likely understand how far the situation is from the image of hundreds of skeletal corpses that 'famine' usually conjures up in peoples minds. Let me ask you a question - do you think any official declaration of famine in Gaza would change anything substantial? Maybe aside from the number of aid trucks allowed in.
I'm done arguing with you. Either you accept reality or you don't, I won't waste my breath.
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On May 13 2024 22:42 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2024 21:51 JoinTheRain wrote: It's a war zone there, of course famine, rape, various abuse, miserable conditions, total disregard for human rights and mass death among civilians is to be expected, why would anyone not believe it's happening? Weird how we can say this so callously about Gaza and not Israel (nor should we, loss of life in Israel is fucked).
Indeed, we can have this duplicity because Israel is rich and is rather influential in world politics, Israel matters. While Palestine, well, suffice to say that the world wouldn't change much, if at all, if it somehow gets entirely obliterated. Yes, it will be considered a tragedy, a failure of the UN or some similar nonsense but in the end, things will go as usual without Palestine. And I find this sentiment of mine valid for the rest of the tiny insignificant nations, the one I belong to is well included. We just can not project enough power on the world stage to matter. Such is the situation, I think.
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On May 14 2024 03:56 JoinTheRain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2024 22:42 Cricketer12 wrote:On May 13 2024 21:51 JoinTheRain wrote: It's a war zone there, of course famine, rape, various abuse, miserable conditions, total disregard for human rights and mass death among civilians is to be expected, why would anyone not believe it's happening? Weird how we can say this so callously about Gaza and not Israel (nor should we, loss of life in Israel is fucked). Indeed, we can have this duplicity because Israel is rich and is rather influential in world politics, Israel matters. While Palestine, well, suffice to say that the world wouldn't change much, if at all, if it somehow gets entirely obliterated. Yes, it will be considered a tragedy, a failure of the UN or some similar nonsense but in the end, things will go as usual without Palestine. And I find this sentiment of mine valid for the rest of the tiny insignificant nations, the one I belong to is well included. We just can not project enough power on the world stage to matter. Such is the situation, I think.
This is a part of the issue with the whole 2 state solution thing. The 6 day war was essentially make or break. Follow the story of Palestinian world influence since the conclusion of the 6 day war. The entire reason they are in this situation right now is that there simply is not enough world influence in their favor. Its not some fluke that this enormous disparity exists.
The best case scenario for Palestinians right now is for Gaza to end up as some kinda UN-controlled demilitarized territory. It is a human tragedy and deeply sad. But its important for people to recognize the Palestinian situation was not a recent turn of events. There are simply not enough heavy hitters in their corner willing to do anything at all to help them. Israel continues to expand because the power structure of the world deeply favors them. There isn't a realistic path for these scales to tip.
I think an important thing people miss in these discussions is that ethical merit does not dictate probability. Even if we assume Israel is purely evil and Palestinians are purely righteous, that assumption would not imply Palestinian victory is likely. The "slope of the graph" of Palestinian power has been fairly steady downwards for many years. In short, it isn't sufficient for us to effectively argue the ethics of Palestinian empowerment. The ethics themselves can't alleviate Palestinian suffering. A path to seizing the power needs to also exist.
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- Israel's offensive has slowed (but not halted). It is explained - for reasons not explicitly stated - that they're having greater trouble than expected with their stated goal of destroying Hamas. - 128 remaining hostages are currently said to be in Hamas' captivity (out of 253 after October 7). 112 have been freed so far. - The IDF is focusing on multiple fronts, as Hamas is scattered across much of Gaza. Hamas tunnels, despite some being destroyed, are still said to be in use. - Rafah continues to face bombardment, but the planned offensive has not started. - Negotiations over a ceasefire and hostage deals are deadlocked. - Aid towards civilians is highly insufficient and shortages are severe. Israel accuses Hamas of diverting aid, which Hamas denies. Although the accusation is likely true, I want to refer to the images in my previous comment to highlight Israel's hypocrisy.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-moves-north-gaza-hamas-stronghold-pounds-rafah-without-advancing-2024-05-16/
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6wo
BBC reporting that the ICC is seeking an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu, as well as for Hamas's leader in Gaza.
"Karim Khan (ICC Chief Prosecutor) said there were reasonable grounds to believe that both men bore criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity from at least 7 October 2023."
This might not mean much to Benjamin Netanyahu in the immediacy, but it will probably ramp up the pressure on Israel's allies to stop supplying Israel with arms.
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On May 20 2024 20:31 MJG wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6woBBC reporting that the ICC is seeking an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu, as well as for Hamas's leader in Gaza. "Karim Khan (ICC Chief Prosecutor) said there were reasonable grounds to believe that both men bore criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity from at least 7 October 2023." This might not mean much to Benjamin Netanyahu in the immediacy, but it will probably ramp up the pressure on Israel's allies to stop supplying Israel with arms.
Sinwar was obviously going to face criminal charges, but many people will be surprised to see Netanyahu's name next to Sinwar. I think neither case is going to lead to a conviction, as there are only two notable cases of ICC charges previously having lead to a conviction, and one of those was overturned. But I agree the optics could negatively impact support for Israel. That alone is a significant development. Support for Sinwar is likely to continue, as his allies couldn't care less about the ICC.
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On May 20 2024 21:36 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2024 20:31 MJG wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6woBBC reporting that the ICC is seeking an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu, as well as for Hamas's leader in Gaza. "Karim Khan (ICC Chief Prosecutor) said there were reasonable grounds to believe that both men bore criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity from at least 7 October 2023." This might not mean much to Benjamin Netanyahu in the immediacy, but it will probably ramp up the pressure on Israel's allies to stop supplying Israel with arms. Sinwar was obviously going to face criminal charges, but many people will be surprised to see Netanyahu's name next to Sinwar. I think neither case is going to lead to a conviction, as there are only two notable cases of ICC charges previously having lead to a conviction, and one of those was overturned. But I agree the optics could negatively impact support for Israel. That alone is a significant development. Support for Sinwar is likely to continue, as his allies couldn't care less about the ICC. I definitely can't imagine this having any impact at all on support for Hamas.
The statement from the ICC is pretty strong regarding Israel. It looks like they're focusing heavily on the use of starvation as a weapon against the population of Gaza:
"This occurred through the imposition of a total siege over Gaza that involved completely closing the three border crossing points, Rafah, Kerem Shalom and Erez, from 8 October 2023 for extended periods and then by arbitrarily restricting the transfer of essential supplies – including food and medicine – through the border crossings after they were reopened. The siege also included cutting off cross-border water pipelines from Israel to Gaza – Gazans’ principal source of clean water – for a prolonged period beginning 9 October 2023, and cutting off and hindering electricity supplies from at least 8 October 2023 until today...
My office submits that the evidence we have collected, including interviews with survivors and eyewitnesses, authenticated video, photo and audio material, satellite imagery and statements from the alleged perpetrator group, shows that Israel has intentionally and systematically deprived the civilian population in all parts of Gaza of objects indispensable to human survival."
The focus on this aspect of the conflict is probably because war crime claims stemming from combat are much harder to pin on the Israeli government (the Israeli government can always blame individual soldiers or the fog of war or Hamas's known tactic of hiding amongst civilian populations etc.) than something like shutting off the water to Gaza.
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Due to Iran's involvement with all this, I figured this thread was the best match for discussion. But mods please let me know if this belongs elsewhere. Regarding Raisi's death:
I would normally view this as a guaranteed assassination by Israel or the US, but the circumstances around him flying in a helicopter in terrible weather are baffling. Iran somehow deciding that was a good idea is itself strange. And it doesn’t appear as though Raisi was forced to get in the helicopter. So all the folks in charge of keeping Raisi safe signed off on it. And Raisi signed off on it. It’s not clear to me why this was considered an acceptable risk to begin with.
The whole decision for Raisi to even get into this helicopter is wild. Am I missing something or is this a bizarre decision? The whole situation with the helicopter is the only reason I'm not 100% sure it was Israel/USA who killed him. The decision to even be on that flight feels like it was amazingly stupid and risky.
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Well, people do stupid and risky all the time, I don't find it that baffling. That rapist Kobe Bryant also died in a helicopter in poor weather while most other machines were grounded. Apparently it's not US or Israel assassination because Iran would wail to no end and they're quiet. It was so funny, someone from Iran blamed the US for Raisi's death because of the US embargo on flying machine parts. This was the closest thing I saw to blaming USA.
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I haven't seen any evidence of it being a hit so far.
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United States22092 Posts
On May 20 2024 20:31 MJG wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6woBBC reporting that the ICC is seeking an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu, as well as for Hamas's leader in Gaza. "Karim Khan (ICC Chief Prosecutor) said there were reasonable grounds to believe that both men bore criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity from at least 7 October 2023." This might not mean much to Benjamin Netanyahu in the immediacy, but it will probably ramp up the pressure on Israel's allies to stop supplying Israel with arms. Not for Joe Biden and his supporters. He's made it explicitly clear he rejects the ICC's assessment thus far and will steadfastly support Israel's ongoing ethnic cleansing campaign.
Joe Biden has attacked as “outrageous” an application by the international criminal court for warrants seeking the arrest of the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, along with senior members of Hamas, for actions carried out in Gaza.
[“The ICC prosecutor’s application for arrest warrants against Israeli leaders is outrageous,” Biden said in the statement.]
The US president sided unambiguously with Israel after the ICC’s prosecutor, Karim Khan, announced he was pursuing arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant, the Israeli defence minister. Khan is also pursuing the arrests of three leading Hamas figures, Yahya Sinwar, Mohammed Diab Ibrahim al-Masri – better known as Mohammed Deif – and Ismail Haniyeh over Hamas’s attack on Israel on 7 October last year.
“I will always ensure that Israel has everything it needs to defend itself against Hamas and all its enemies,” Biden said....
“What’s happening is not genocide.”
Biden’s comments were echoed by Antony Blinken, the secretary of state, who said the US “fundamentally rejects” the decision to seek the arrests of Israeli officials and warned that it could jeopardise efforts to reach a ceasefire.
He also accused the ICC of overstepping its authority.
“The United States has been clear since well before the current conflict that ICC has no jurisdiction over this matter,” Blinken said.
www.theguardian.com
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I don't know what Biden is saying there. The accusation is that Netanyahu committed war crimes, not genocide per se. The accusations are absolutely within reason and an arrest warrant makes perfect sense. If any regular citizen did what Netanyahu has done, they'd already have been arrested. Is Biden arguing that prime ministers should be above the law?
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