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Active: 939 users

Why dark archons are not used much?

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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SiarX
Profile Joined December 2021
104 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-22 18:18:38
August 22 2024 13:53 GMT
#1
I only see them built rarely to counter mutalisks, but they can do much more. Prevent storm dodging with maelstorm, hard counter defilers with feedback or even mind control them (plague is so devastating vs zerg units). Are they not used simply because of extra micro required?

Or counter HTs with long ranged feedback, which are quite popular in PvP.
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania8215 Posts
August 22 2024 18:12 GMT
#2
They are used a bit more in PvP on fastest map.
Brain (and other protoss players) leave a dark archon next to minerals to feedback enemy high templars !
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
Xeofreestyler
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Belgium6771 Posts
August 23 2024 09:55 GMT
#3
On August 23 2024 03:12 prosatan wrote:
They are used a bit more in PvP on fastest map.
Brain (and other protoss players) leave a dark archon next to minerals to feedback enemy high templars !


That's clever but ... why not just mc the shuttle?
Graphics
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania8215 Posts
August 23 2024 11:35 GMT
#4
On August 23 2024 18:55 Xeofreestyler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2024 03:12 prosatan wrote:
They are used a bit more in PvP on fastest map.
Brain (and other protoss players) leave a dark archon next to minerals to feedback enemy high templars !


That's clever but ... why not just mc the shuttle?

This is very good too !!
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
Rainalcar
Profile Joined April 2010
Croatia360 Posts
August 23 2024 19:50 GMT
#5
I have never seen a mind controlled defiler casting plague on Z units in a pro game.
j.r.r.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7896 Posts
August 27 2024 13:06 GMT
#6
I suspect there is still untapped potential in some underused units that are still just too micro intensive to be worth making even at the highest level.

I think that ghosts in tvp and medic’s heal spell in tvz are other examples of units and spells that could be really strong in the future. I am old enough though to remember a time some very, very good players argued that emp didn’t make sense in tvp.

Dark archon may become standard sometimes in the future. Time will tell. I remember Violet used to like them.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10182 Posts
August 27 2024 21:48 GMT
#7
They're definitely underused in PvP as a full energy DA can kill 4-5 templar which more than pays for itself. Plus, MC a shuttle full of reavers is also an interesting tactic too.

They've started to come up more in PvZ which is great, since feedbacking defilers is really nice and maelstrom on unburrowed lurkers when they try to engage your army is massive. But as people have said, adding more and more spellcasters to your army taxes you more and more, and it makes it really hard to effectively use them.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
TMNT
Profile Joined January 2021
2779 Posts
August 28 2024 20:24 GMT
#8
On August 28 2024 06:48 FlaShFTW wrote:
They're definitely underused in PvP as a full energy DA can kill 4-5 templar which more than pays for itself. Plus, MC a shuttle full of reavers is also an interesting tactic too.

I can only say this for pro level, the reason is at that level PvP games don't often go to the late game state when you have 4-5 Templars.

In fact, the better the players are, the less chance you'll see HTs in PvP. I don't think I have ever seen a game between Mini and Snow (the two best PvP players out there) in which they used storm. They will fight with Dragoons and Reavers to death and their supplies rarely go past 100. The reason being at their level they smell blood so fast and if one knows he can finish the other off, he will.
mtcn77
Profile Joined September 2013
Turkey405 Posts
September 11 2024 15:07 GMT
#9
It is a bullying unit. You also see it when zergs infest terran CC. That is the same for protoss DA's, you never do it until you want to humiliate your opponent into gg because it is too far outside normal play. Though, I don't know why that is the case when Terrans irradiate with SV's no problem. It is just out of meta. People even argue it is against the rules for zerg players to infest CC's. It gives that much advantage same for Protoss DA's.
Turrican
Volka
Profile Joined December 2010
Argentina410 Posts
September 15 2024 01:57 GMT
#10
On September 12 2024 00:07 mtcn77 wrote:
It is a bullying unit. You also see it when zergs infest terran CC. That is the same for protoss DA's, you never do it until you want to humiliate your opponent into gg because it is too far outside normal play. Though, I don't know why that is the case when Terrans irradiate with SV's no problem. It is just out of meta. People even argue it is against the rules for zerg players to infest CC's. It gives that much advantage same for Protoss DA's.


I thought the Scout filled that role. Honestly DA spells are great and they do have their specific uses. It's just storms are more impactful over most situations and thus pros focus on those.
http://www.starsite.com.ar
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10182 Posts
September 16 2024 14:23 GMT
#11
On September 12 2024 00:07 mtcn77 wrote:
It is a bullying unit. You also see it when zergs infest terran CC. That is the same for protoss DA's, you never do it until you want to humiliate your opponent into gg because it is too far outside normal play. Though, I don't know why that is the case when Terrans irradiate with SV's no problem. It is just out of meta. People even argue it is against the rules for zerg players to infest CC's. It gives that much advantage same for Protoss DA's.

Those things are not even remotely close to being the same lol. Eraser trick on vessels are legitimate tactics when Zerg doesn't have sufficient anti-air, and DAs have seen legitimate play in pro play in late game PvZ applications with feedback on defilers and maelstrom on clumps of hydra/ling.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7896 Posts
September 16 2024 16:29 GMT
#12
On September 12 2024 00:07 mtcn77 wrote:
It is a bullying unit. You also see it when zergs infest terran CC. That is the same for protoss DA's, you never do it until you want to humiliate your opponent into gg because it is too far outside normal play. Though, I don't know why that is the case when Terrans irradiate with SV's no problem. It is just out of meta. People even argue it is against the rules for zerg players to infest CC's. It gives that much advantage same for Protoss DA's.

Yeah i really disagrees. DA are not a manner unit. They are actually very good.

Infest CC is actually also situationally useful, if terran is playing mech zerg had queens, it can reduce the killing time of a cc significantly.

I would say they only real manner units in the game are scouts, that have no place in the metagame under any circumstances and are unequivocally terrible, and maybe infested terrans.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
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