EPTProtoss representation in tourney have been a hot topic since the last years, do you think that dragoon could help Protoss in being more competitive at top level ?
Dragoon in SC2
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Vision_
867 Posts
Protoss representation in tourney have been a hot topic since the last years, do you think that dragoon could help Protoss in being more competitive at top level ? | ||
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kAra
Germany1384 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16090 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1216 Posts
Since they would be super-smooth to control in SC2, that factor is gone. Source: Dude trust me. | ||
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Vision_
867 Posts
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kAra
Germany1384 Posts
Role: The Dragoon is a versatile ranged unit effective against both air and ground targets. It is commonly used in various strategies, providing strong mid-game support and flexibility in engagements. Strengths: Dragoons have good range and can kite well against slower units. They are strong against early Terran mech units (like Vultures and Tanks) and are decent against Zerg’s Hydralisks and Mutalisks when microed well. Implications in StarCraft II: Comparison to Stalker: In StarCraft II, the Dragoon's role was somewhat replaced by the Stalker. Stalkers are more mobile due to the Blink ability, which allows them to teleport short distances, giving them higher micro potential and allowing them to be used for harassment and tactical engagements. Potential Impact: If the Dragoon were to be introduced into StarCraft II, it would offer a more durable but less mobile alternative to the Stalker. Dragoons could potentially help Protoss in specific matchups, especially if they were balanced to fill a unique role that current units don't cover. For example, they could be designed to be stronger in straight-up engagements against Terran bio or Zerg ground armies, providing a sturdier mid-game unit than Stalkers or Immortals. Competitiveness at the Top Level: Balance Considerations: Introducing the Dragoon into StarCraft II would require significant balance adjustments. The current unit compositions and dynamics are finely tuned, so any new unit would need to be carefully integrated to avoid disrupting the balance. Meta Impact: If Dragoons were balanced correctly, they could make Protoss more competitive by offering different strategic options. For example, they might provide a more reliable backbone in certain compositions, particularly against Zerg mid-game aggression or Terran mech. In conclusion, while Dragoons were a key unit for Protoss in Brood War, their introduction into StarCraft II would require thoughtful design to enhance Protoss competitiveness at the top level. It could be a valuable addition if it offers unique benefits that align with current game dynamics. | ||
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Radioteddy
13 Posts
On August 18 2024 16:30 kAra wrote: Dragoon in Brood War Role: The Dragoon is a versatile ranged unit effective against both air and ground targets. It is commonly used in various strategies, providing strong mid-game support and flexibility in engagements. Strengths: Dragoons have good range and can kite well against slower units. They are strong against early Terran mech units (like Vultures and Tanks) and are decent against Zerg’s Hydralisks and Mutalisks when microed well. Implications in StarCraft II: Comparison to Stalker: In StarCraft II, the Dragoon's role was somewhat replaced by the Stalker. Stalkers are more mobile due to the Blink ability, which allows them to teleport short distances, giving them higher micro potential and allowing them to be used for harassment and tactical engagements. Potential Impact: If the Dragoon were to be introduced into StarCraft II, it would offer a more durable but less mobile alternative to the Stalker. Dragoons could potentially help Protoss in specific matchups, especially if they were balanced to fill a unique role that current units don't cover. For example, they could be designed to be stronger in straight-up engagements against Terran bio or Zerg ground armies, providing a sturdier mid-game unit than Stalkers or Immortals. Competitiveness at the Top Level: Balance Considerations: Introducing the Dragoon into StarCraft II would require significant balance adjustments. The current unit compositions and dynamics are finely tuned, so any new unit would need to be carefully integrated to avoid disrupting the balance. Meta Impact: If Dragoons were balanced correctly, they could make Protoss more competitive by offering different strategic options. For example, they might provide a more reliable backbone in certain compositions, particularly against Zerg mid-game aggression or Terran mech. In conclusion, while Dragoons were a key unit for Protoss in Brood War, their introduction into StarCraft II would require thoughtful design to enhance Protoss competitiveness at the top level. It could be a valuable addition if it offers unique benefits that align with current game dynamics. Thanks chatGPT -_- | ||
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kAra
Germany1384 Posts
a quality topic deserves a quality answer | ||
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jodljodl
175 Posts
On August 18 2024 16:55 kAra wrote: its not wrong though. a quality topic deserves a quality answer thank you for making me chuckle <3 | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3428 Posts
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Vision_
867 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1216 Posts
On August 18 2024 21:49 Vision_ wrote: In any case, starcraft 2 has to be patched because of Protoss imbalance at pro level Are you familiar with Marcus Porcius Cato? | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom1283 Posts
If we get some normal maps then it might become clearer what could or should be changed. A map-pool of only Overgrowth (and clones therefore) would do it!  In all seriousness, the answer to Protoss woes isn't making Protoss even more immobile by adding a unit like the Dragoon. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25805 Posts
Beefy, relatively low DPS units melt to more fragile, but high DPS units as things scale up. You’ll just end up with a unit that is slightly better at A-moving than stalkers, but has none of the advantages blink gives you. Be it poking and blinking back while retaining them, or aggressively blinking to snipe priority targets. We’ve known since WoL that outside of wonky scenarios, Protoss is incredibly reliant on AoE to offset that their core units melt late game. Adding another core gateway unit may have some early game utility but it won’t change that fundamental aspect of the matchups, especially TvP | ||
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Vision_
867 Posts
On August 18 2024 18:50 ejozl wrote: That would make herO the Serral of Protoss, so the cabal obviously won't allow it. 4-0 in final, it looks like a humiliation | ||
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Slydie
1923 Posts
But what should they bring which protoss does not already have? You would need to make them absurdly OP to make them viable, one-shotting roaches and the HP of Ultras. I don't think anyone wants that. The core issue with Protoss is Warpgate. As long as it exists, gateway units can't be too strong, as it would break the game. The choice was made, but finding a good place to be at the top level for the race has been tricky. Afaik, their succeses have mostly come of the back of very strong timing attacks. | ||
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Maksim2010
39 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3394 Posts
On August 19 2024 00:23 WombaT wrote: Dragoons would just add another unit that has similar characteristics to their existing roster, with the commensurate weaknesses. Beefy, relatively low DPS units melt to more fragile, but high DPS units as things scale up. You’ll just end up with a unit that is slightly better at A-moving than stalkers, but has none of the advantages blink gives you. Be it poking and blinking back while retaining them, or aggressively blinking to snipe priority targets. We’ve known since WoL that outside of wonky scenarios, Protoss is incredibly reliant on AoE to offset that their core units melt late game. Adding another core gateway unit may have some early game utility but it won’t change that fundamental aspect of the matchups, especially TvP The wargate mechanics prevents decent all around solid gateway units anyway | ||
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Vision_
867 Posts
Then with 2 kind of Queens, one sister for injection and the other mutation for tumors, you could add a spell to enhance each zerg units on his best, which could for example, allow mutalisks stronger regeneration, ultralisks could gain a bonus against building, broodlings last longer, etc... This idea could improve Zerg specialized units and ask to players the best use of each units in different scenaris Then server patch isn t used indeed ? If pros protoss can win tourney with slower fight, then necessarily it shows that stalkers are too much on the edge of the balance and need to be tweaked. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25805 Posts
On August 19 2024 03:31 WGT-Baal wrote: The wargate mechanics prevents decent all around solid gateway units anyway Yeah this is absolutely at the core of it! I do genuinely think SC2 is miraculously well balanced considering warpgate exists. I think it’s a poor fundamental design decision absolutely, but within that giant constraint the balance is remarkable, albeit imperfect. | ||
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