EPTJust my two cents, what are your thoughts?
I know you're tired of it, but let's talk balance
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CicadaSC
United States1203 Posts
Just my two cents, what are your thoughts? | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15828 Posts
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Fubika24
37 Posts
And I think this is the pitfall of trying to have players balance the game, pro or otherwise. Not gonna see a lot of objective takes, when so much is on the line constantly. I dont see this council making protoss comparatively better than it is now any time soon. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15828 Posts
On September 08 2023 00:14 Fubika24 wrote: The way I see it, they cant just go around nerfing of buffing a race, it has to come out to a zero sum game, otherwise the other 2/3rd of the council wont let it be implemented. And I think this is the pitfall of trying to have players balance the game, pro or otherwise. Not gonna see a lot of objective takes, when so much is on the line constantly. I dont see this council making protoss comparatively better than it is now any time soon. Anyone who understands this game knows this patch is definitely overall a buff for Protoss in both matchups (barring the controversial cyclone change which is unlikely to make it into the game). Whether it's enough of a buff is arguable, but you can't argue it's not a Protoss buff. And that's not my opinion, that's what multiple pros have stated. | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7967 Posts
TvZ: Big buff to Terran TvP: Minor buff to Protoss PvZ: Minor buff to Protoss You have to wonder how we got this initial starting point in the balance patch. If anything Terran was slightly overperforming and Protoss needs more help. The TvZ changes especially are very questionable. I agree that balancing should be a bigger focus than redesigning a unit that had a perfectly fine role in all matchups. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16006 Posts
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JJH777
United States4373 Posts
Though I guess the real question is if Zergs can even consistently make it to that point of the game with worse banelings which is a valid concern. | ||
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tigera6
3182 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1203 Posts
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Drahkn
184 Posts
and Reynor bubble of perceived balance. Anyway who can take seriously the balancing of a game when it is balanced by people who stand a chance at making money from tournaments. No other serious organization does this. You can clearly see it in the patchnotes of the PTR , there is serious pushing for making mech super viable which is not a balancing issue whatsoever that is more design change and is far from top of the main concerns of the game right now and it is still getting major attention. Viper remains untouched and actually gets a buff another clear cut sign of incompetence in my personal opinion. This unit is grabbing units with ease that cost 400 minerals and 300 gas and it has still not been addressed, the insanity is actually real, I have been facepalming at this game ever since hots release at the absurdity that is SC2 balance and how easy especially Zerg has had it over all these years. Another good example of this is the Baneling, is has been nerfed several times now in the later stages of SC2 and it is still way to strong , what will it take for someone to call this out for what it is. Zerg and Terran get special treatment always has if it was intentional or not we will never know. Now before any of you mods Warn or Temp Ban me , I have only stated my personal opinion on someone's ability to execute something, I have not personally attacked anyone | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1006 Posts
On September 08 2023 23:26 Drahkn wrote: Harstem is delusional when it comes to balance in my personal opinion , he spends to much time in the Lambo,Serral and Reynor bubble of perceived balance. Anyway who can take seriously the balancing of a game when it is balanced by people who stand a chance at making money from tournaments. No other serious organization does this. You can clearly see it in the patchnotes of the PTR , there is serious pushing for making mech super viable which is not a balancing issue whatsoever that is more design change and is far from top of the main concerns of the game right now and it is still getting major attention. Viper remains untouched and actually gets a buff another clear cut sign of incompetence in my personal opinion. This unit is grabbing units with ease that cost 400 minerals and 300 gas and it has still not been addressed, the insanity is actually real, I have been facepalming at this game ever since hots release at the absurdity that is SC2 balance and how easy especially Zerg has had it over all these years. Another good example of this is the Baneling, is has been nerfed several times now in the later stages of SC2 and it is still way to strong , what will it take for someone to call this out for what it is. Zerg and Terran get special treatment always has if it was intentional or not we will never know. Now before any of you mods Warn or Temp Ban me , I have only stated my personal opinion on someone's ability to execute something, I have not personally attacked anyone If you already anticipate a temp ban, you might want to reconsider the way you articulate yourself. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15828 Posts
On September 08 2023 23:26 Drahkn wrote: Harstem is delusional when it comes to balance in my personal opinion , he spends to much time in the Lambo,Serral and Reynor bubble of perceived balance. Anyway who can take seriously the balancing of a game when it is balanced by people who stand a chance at making money from tournaments. No other serious organization does this. You can clearly see it in the patchnotes of the PTR , there is serious pushing for making mech super viable which is not a balancing issue whatsoever that is more design change and is far from top of the main concerns of the game right now and it is still getting major attention. Viper remains untouched and actually gets a buff another clear cut sign of incompetence in my personal opinion. This unit is grabbing units with ease that cost 400 minerals and 300 gas and it has still not been addressed, the insanity is actually real, I have been facepalming at this game ever since hots release at the absurdity that is SC2 balance and how easy especially Zerg has had it over all these years. Another good example of this is the Baneling, is has been nerfed several times now in the later stages of SC2 and it is still way to strong , what will it take for someone to call this out for what it is. Zerg and Terran get special treatment always has if it was intentional or not we will never know. Now before any of you mods Warn or Temp Ban me , I have only stated my personal opinion on someone's ability to execute something, I have not personally attacked anyone The reason it's done the way it is, is because Blizzard just doesn't want to put any resources into it. But honestly I don't understand those calls for a professional, external team of balance designers. We used to have this, and that team was responsible for: -leaving Broodlord Infestor untouched for a year -hour long Swarmhost stalemates -Mass Raven turtle -mega buff to infested terrans leading to BL/Infestor 2.0 - again untouched for a year -Voidray buff into 1 year skytoss vs Queenwalk meta I think the status quo is preferable | ||
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Drahkn
184 Posts
On September 09 2023 01:27 Balnazza wrote: If you already anticipate a temp ban, you might want to reconsider the way you articulate yourself. Trust me mate , I've been banned because a mod did not like the "assumed tone" in my message although I broke no rules. | ||
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Philippe
345 Posts
On September 09 2023 02:00 Drahkn wrote: Trust me mate , I've been banned because a mod did not like the "assumed tone" in my message although I broke no rules. When the tone is sometimes more important than the message itself, no surprises it may happen even when no technical rules are broken. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1006 Posts
On September 09 2023 02:00 Drahkn wrote: Trust me mate , I've been banned because a mod did not like the "assumed tone" in my message although I broke no rules. Well, as someone who was a Mod for almost ten years...I don't like your assumed tone either and would atleast give you a warning. So really mate, maybe try less "everyone is out to get Protoss" and "everyone but me has no idea about the game" kind of approach? Anyway, sorry for offtopic, finished now. | ||
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Philippe
345 Posts
On September 08 2023 23:08 CicadaSC wrote: Is the balance council going to respond to this at all? Would love their thoughts. While there has been some more communication this hasn't been addressed at all. I don't really see the balance council explaining the full extent of their logic, like ever. This would open a worse can of worms than leaving everybody guess. One can just look at what happened when the current patch was first announced, tested, and then released back in the day. But a bit more of transparency wouldn't hurt. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
Whenever these threads pop up like "WHY DIDN'T THE BALANCE CABAL MAKE MY CHANGES THAT I WANTED?!!" it just sounds like any other whiny teenager who thinks they know better than an entire body of experts. "Didn't they even THINK about doing X, Y or Z?" I can assure you, if it was worth considering, they probably considered it. If you have a suggestion, by all means, post it, but maligning the council or questioning their motive is just disrespectful and childish. As to whether they err on the side of caution, I would imagine they err on the side of coming to a compromise as a council. Democracy, while perhaps the most fair form of decision making, cannot be and has never been considered the most expedient. | ||
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Athenau
568 Posts
"Didn't they even THINK about doing X, Y or Z?" I can assure you, if it was worth considering, they probably considered it. If you have a suggestion, by all means, post it, but maligning the council or questioning their motive is just disrespectful and childish. This is hopelessly naive. Any collaborative effort needs to account for competing interests or it's doomed to failure. Recognizing that some of the members of the balance council have a financial stake in the outcome isn't "maligning the council", it's recognizing reality. | ||
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Drahkn
184 Posts
On September 09 2023 02:26 Balnazza wrote: Well, as someone who was a Mod for almost ten years...I don't like your assumed tone either and would atleast give you a warning. So really mate, maybe try less "everyone is out to get Protoss" and "everyone but me has no idea about the game" kind of approach? Anyway, sorry for offtopic, finished now. Why do we have a forum if we can't disagree this is just absurd to me xD | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
On September 09 2023 03:23 Athenau wrote: This is hopelessly naive. Any collaborative effort needs to account for competing interests or it's doomed to failure. Recognizing that some of the members of the balance council have a financial stake in the outcome isn't "maligning the council", it's recognizing reality. The statement "some of the members of the balance council have a financial stake in the outcome" may be technically correct, but to suggest that profit is their motive is disrespectful and childish. Like I said - maligning the council or questioning their motive is just disrespectful and childish. What exactly do you think is happening? The council is colluding to make one race more powerful than the others so that those players can win and then split the prize money amoung the rest of them? How exactly does this work? It doesn't make any logical sense. If you HONESTLY believe that the main reason members of the council are participating is profit rather than trying to pump life into a dying, orphaned game I believe you are foolish, jaded or delusional | ||
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