EPTGamers8 to have $500,000 prize pool for SC2 & BW - Page 5
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SmoKim
Denmark10300 Posts
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AcrossFromTime
29 Posts
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Crocolisk Dundee
868 Posts
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Booze
7 Posts
If you'd actually read the counter points (like 2 comments above your own actually), you may notice that your troll post isn't as thought provoking as you might think. | ||
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Xamo
Spain872 Posts
It is difficult to know the real reasons for the promotion, and they are probably complex. Here, they could be a mix of image laundering with economic interest in making e-sports mainstream and profitable in the long term, and with a genuine enjoyment of the tournaments. Probably certain people within the organization value some reasons more, and others value other. Even if we assume that the main reason is image laundering in the face of the atrocities committed against another nation, I am convinced that the activity itself contributes, in the medium and long term, to the elimination of such atrocities. I believe that sports have been a fundamental factor in the progressive (and slow) reduction of violence between peoples and nations, replacing it with healthy competition. And I am willing to tolerate its promotion by those seeking short-term benefits because the long-term benefit is greater and goes precisely against the ideas of those seeking it in the short term. However, I consider it essential that, while participating in the activity, the double standard of the promoter is highlighted. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1176 Posts
On April 01 2023 07:53 tlnetuser108 wrote: Probably made up of slave money. Pass on this one. Slave money? Curious what you mean by this because I googled it and Google is saying saudi Arabia doesn't have slaves. Not since 1962. | ||
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lechatnoir
370 Posts
On April 01 2023 19:17 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: Nobody in this thread is arguing any government institution is above criticism. If U.S. Army Esports would be sponsoring a StarCraft tournament, I personally would have issues with that as well. Didn't that already happen or am I misremembering? Like, a Dreamhack in the US? | ||
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Tommy131313
Germany150 Posts
On March 30 2023 01:47 Haku wrote: Glad about SC2 getting some love, but really don't like where the money for this is coming from. Imho THIS is just the best statement in this thread and the summary of my own thougts. If you're buying the products of a company that is doing really bad things to people or environment, YES, then you ARE supporting it and help to make the world a place much worse. If you enjoy an e-sports tournament, that is funded by a country or company trying to do image laundering, well, it's up to you if you support that country/company by keeping your mouth shut and not criticizing any misdemeanors. Image laundry does only work if YOU let it change your mind. Otherwise: let them spend their money if they want to. It changes the period of time, I can enjoy premier class Starcraft, but it doesn't change how I think of Saudi Arabia. | ||
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LML
Germany1729 Posts
On April 01 2023 21:17 CicadaSC wrote: Slave money? Curious what you mean by this because I googled it and Google is saying saudi Arabia doesn't have slaves. Not since 1962. https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/2018/findings/regional-analysis/arab-states/#table:1 Did you also not pay any attention to reports about the World Cup 2022 and how the stadiums were built? It was already reported on a decade ago: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars-world-cup-slaves | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10280 Posts
On April 02 2023 21:11 LML wrote: https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/2018/findings/regional-analysis/arab-states/#table:1 Did you also not pay any attention to reports about the World Cup 2022 and how the stadiums were built? It was already reported on a decade ago: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars-world-cup-slaves Qatar and Saudi Arabia are 2 different countries If we're talking about workers who are heavily abused or lack freedom or treated in a way similar enough to slaves, then i can mention that the US also has modern day slavery in forms such as prisoners being forced to do manual labor, and those in power being allowed to extend their sentences after their original sentence, even if they didn't do anything bad since the original sentence. This coupled with the issues of racial prejudice that leads to a disproportionate amount of minorities being affected by this, and that many of these people were arrested for possession of weed (which is now legal), is labeled by many as modern day slavery. I'm not trying to argue which country is better or has "less bad", but to respond to some other people, I think saying that comparing the US's war crimes to Saudi Arabia's war crimes is absurd is... well to me, war crimes are war crimes, if we're looking at the bads, the atrocities, then it's difficult to say one country is morally above the other or "better overall" when they too committ atrocities. If watching or supporting a Saudi Arabia tournament is bad and should be discouraged, then I would think that same logic should apply to ESL (I didn't know they're owned by Saudi Arabia now), and also to tournaments hosted by the US. I'm not saying that it's "wrong" for people to support the ones they want and to draw the line where they want, but it just really isn't that black and white to me. If the people in this esports federation are specifically the same people responsible for war crimes or a terrible dictatorship, then sure it would be different than supporting a SC2 tourny in the US hosted by people not in the government. But then I would wonder if these same people really are the same ones responsible, or just relatives. I also think Xamo's perspective has good points, and lays out a positive possibility/outcome from all this. As Xamo suggested, a realistic probability is that some of them care more genuinely about esports and support the bad stuff less. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States515 Posts
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Tommy131313
Germany150 Posts
While Saudi Arabia has a lot - and I mean really A LOT - issues with human rights violations, slavery isn't the main issue imho. You can check on the Global Slavery Index that is published by renowned NGO "Walk free". https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/2018/findings/global-map/#prevalence You can still be outraged by Saudi sponsoring and organising that tournament, there's lot of reasons, e.g. women's rights, war in Yemen, the Kashoggi murder, religious intolerance, an autocratic regime... But in the end, it's probably very hard to find a country, that's innocent enough to be a "good" place for sports events. Perhaps we have to admit that. And keep pointing out the points of criticism applicable to that country. That said, there are certainly countries, that are actually really least suitable for any international events. For me, those are countries that are right now committing war crimes or genocide. That's my "red line". But that's of course quite personal. | ||
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LML
Germany1729 Posts
On April 02 2023 22:12 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Qatar and Saudi Arabia are 2 different countries You're completely right of course. For some reason I remembered it being held in Saudi Arabia, but it was held in Qatar. So only the first link has any relevancy. | ||
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Vision_
816 Posts
On April 01 2023 02:54 tigera6 wrote: Oh people think that they cant really control everything in life, and have to live with the "shame" of their choice. Like if the people of the country arent doing a thing about it, or they are not doing enough, then why are we trying to be the hero of justice all of a sudden? The world is cruel, there s no doubt so it s about you to make the world more beautifull or be a part of destruction. And most of the time, where you put money into is an expression of your mind and will belong to a politic question. Obviously no country could honestly assert that it was beyond reproach in the area of human rights, but why give so much effort and money to save their image ? In France, we are totally ashamed by the recent events of police repression for example (because people don t give a shit of voting for president election and now 90% disagree about retreat reform,... all that said, if most of players boycott the event, the saudi policy ended in failure). | ||
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Garnet
Vietnam9008 Posts
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mark_lenders
74 Posts
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aringadingding
468 Posts
That being said I am happy for the players participating. I will most likely watch these games. | ||
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Crocolisk Dundee
868 Posts
The Wikipedia article on the failed policy of "Change through trade" provides a good overview of how politicians are now rethinking relations with autocratic regimes. | ||
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tigera6
3169 Posts
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Lightswarm
Canada966 Posts
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