EPTHow do you feel about Golden Wall?
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TL.net Bot
TL.net125 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15973 Posts
On September 23 2020 14:53 ZigguratOfUr wrote: With the 'viewer' favorability of Golden Wall being so much higher than the 'player' favorability, I really wish ESL would introduce more similarly creative maps without requiring them to be ladder maps first. Having tournaments manage their own map pool also makes more sense than sticking to the ladder pool, since tournament organizers have so much more flexibility around introducing and removing maps from the pool than Blizzard does. Pointless IMO. Players will just veto the non-ladder map because it's so much more of a hassle to practice on it. | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15973 Posts
On September 23 2020 18:52 xsnac wrote: wtf is "golden wall"? SC2 Map.  Golden Wall LE | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 23 2020 15:35 Vindicare605 wrote: Pointless IMO. Players will just veto the non-ladder map because it's so much more of a hassle to practice on it. Then ESL should replace the entire tournament map pool. Or impose the first map in a best of series. If given the choice players will always stick with the safe boring maps that we've seen in some form or another a million times, so it's up to the tournament organizer to improve things for the viewers. | ||
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Archile
United States403 Posts
On September 24 2020 03:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Then ESL should replace the entire tournament map pool. Or impose the first map in a best of series. If given the choice players will always stick with the safe boring maps that we've seen in some form or another a million times, so it's up to the tournament organizer to improve things for the viewers. I agree to an extent; I remember the old MLG days where it was exciting to see pros play on maps that weren't even in the ladder pool. Seeing new strategies appear on testbug (especially if you consider MMA killing his own CC into IdrA gging a new strat lmao) or the GSL semis including interesting new maps for the bo7 was always neat | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On September 23 2020 14:53 ZigguratOfUr wrote: With the 'viewer' favorability of Golden Wall being so much higher than the 'player' favorability, I really wish ESL would introduce more similarly creative maps without requiring them to be ladder maps first. Having tournaments manage their own map pool also makes more sense than sticking to the ladder pool, since tournament organizers have so much more flexibility around introducing and removing maps from the pool than Blizzard does. Painters should just paint more Mona Lisas. The thing about these funny creative maps is that no one can make them balanced, Golden Wall is beloved because its creative and different, but also very balanced, which is a first in SC2's 10 year history. I don't think mapmakers can just ''make'' more Golden Walls. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 24 2020 09:18 Morbidius wrote: Painters should just paint more Mona Lisas. The thing about these funny creative maps is that no one can make them balanced, Golden Wall is beloved because its creative and different, but also very balanced, which is a first in SC2's 10 year history. I don't think mapmakers can just ''make'' more Golden Walls. It's not at all the first. King Sejong Station was quite creative for its time to name just one great map. And Zen for example was quite balanced (even before Blizzard changed the natural) despite all the people complaining about it (though the gameplay on it was somewhat mediocre). Creative maps do obviously end up being imbalanced more often than standard maps (though the difference isn't nearly as big as most people think. Quite a few standard maps aren't so balanced), but that's where there's an advantage in having a tournament organizer manage the map pool rather than Blizzard--if you end up with say Turbo Cruise you can get rid of it rather than having to wait an entire ladder season. And you're not going to get a new Mona Lisa if people keep on tracing the same picture all the time. | ||
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Kitai
United States862 Posts
On September 23 2020 18:52 xsnac wrote: wtf is "golden wall"? Ask Tasteless  | ||
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Vindicare605
United States15973 Posts
On September 24 2020 03:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Then ESL should replace the entire tournament map pool. Or impose the first map in a best of series. If given the choice players will always stick with the safe boring maps that we've seen in some form or another a million times, so it's up to the tournament organizer to improve things for the viewers. Now that's more like it. We could go back to the days where every tournament had a different map pool. I did enjoy those times quite a bit. It's harder on the players and it makes for strange matches but that's part of the point. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4036 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19137 Posts
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dangthatsright
1158 Posts
Regarding tournament map pools in general, team leagues (in usual proleague format rather than winner's league / all-kill) would be a better setting for trying more experimental maps since any emergent racial imbalances can be worked around by the teams. Unfortunately that setting doesn't exist right now, but maybe if we had proleague for longer, or another league of that format, we would have a shorter list of things maps "need" in order to be considered acceptable. | ||
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Drfilip
Sweden590 Posts
On September 28 2020 12:41 dangthatsright wrote: I never played enough games to form a proper opinion on playing golden wall, but as a viewer the first several games were a lot of fun to watch just because it demanded players make more visible adjustments if they still wanted to play "standard" games. Regarding tournament map pools in general, team leagues (in usual proleague format rather than winner's league / all-kill) would be a better setting for trying more experimental maps since any emergent racial imbalances can be worked around by the teams. Unfortunately that setting doesn't exist right now, but maybe if we had proleague for longer, or another league of that format, we would have a shorter list of things maps "need" in order to be considered acceptable. GTC might be willing to do custom map pool. And I would love if there were another likeness to the Warchest team league. The biased casters and the round robin format are 2 great things. Add custom maps and you'll have a full package of Filip entertainment. | ||
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DevilDriver
Germany76 Posts
I think it is far more fun to play on maps that pro's also play, so you can copy plays, but also you can identify more with what is being played and have these moments of: "Ah, I played this map like 50 times, but I never would have thought of that". When we had tournaments maps like whirlwind or iccup, I often rather played custom matches vs friends than ladder, just to play on these maps. | ||
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Mettis
84 Posts
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