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On April 09 2019 17:29 deacon.frost wrote:
Myungsik gave us epic PL match against Maru where Maru bad mannered him! C'mon! That game had everything.
So many choices but you cannot select moer than 2. Sad story.
I am absolutely fine with people voting Myungsik if they liked Myungsik. I'm going to vote for Has in any and every group that he comes up in (which at this point looks like it going to be zero more  ), and it's not because of his results. By all means, if you loved Myungsik I'm not trying to bring you down or tell you you're doing something wrong.
But I have a problem with people voting Myungsik and then trying to claim their votes are about some kind of objective measure of accomplishment.
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On April 09 2019 21:06 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2019 17:02 Harris1st wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 08 2019 22:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 08 2019 20:54 Acrofales wrote:I really want to know what happened here: RorO & Has (2) I understand Thorzain and Has as someone just disliking all Korean SC2 players (or trolling with the full foreigner vote). I neither dislike Koreans nor was trolling, and had a real hard time deciding who I liked better of Parting or Thorzain. Roro was always going to be the worst though. If he had any entertaining games, Broodlord-Infestor has eclipsed them from my memory. And people who pretend Roro needs to advance "because of performance" still haven't explained to me how Myungsik got through. What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. On April 09 2019 01:51 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:47 Acrofales wrote:On April 09 2019 01:42 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 08 2019 22:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 08 2019 20:54 Acrofales wrote:I really want to know what happened here: RorO & Has (2) I understand Thorzain and Has as someone just disliking all Korean SC2 players (or trolling with the full foreigner vote). I neither dislike Koreans nor was trolling, and had a real hard time deciding who I liked better of Parting or Thorzain. Roro was always going to be the worst though. If he had any entertaining games, Broodlord-Infestor has eclipsed them from my memory. And people who pretend Roro needs to advance "because of performance" still haven't explained to me how Myungsik got through. What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. And what did Dimaga achieve? Won a dreamhack. And placed second quite a few times in other major tournaments. Back around the start of WoL. Round the time when Jinro was also awesome. E: oh, he was second at dreamhack and won ASUS ROG. I remembered those the other way round. Dimaga vs Mana finals both times. So nothing that comes close to GSL ro4... Korean Elitism at its finest. Thank you for proving a point Foreigner bias at its finest. Thank you for proving a point. Please point me to the players DIMAGA beat during his runs that were better than Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats?
Nice try, those names are quite impressive, but how strong were they really at the time of Code S S2 2016 when Myungsik defeated them? HerO and Dear were way past their primes, Maru didn't exactly shine in 2016, Gumiho had yet had to win his first Premier tournament; Stats was the only true top player during that period.
Dimaga won the Assembly Summer(a tournament almost without koreans) at the start of August in 2011 by beating mostly Stephano and Mana(they hadn't won a Premier too, but Stephano was going to very soon); I don't think the fields can be compared, yet Myungsik's run was way less impressive than it seems now and Dimaga did something Myungsik never did, winning a tournament(he never even won a Major…).
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On April 09 2019 01:51 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2019 01:47 Acrofales wrote:On April 09 2019 01:42 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 08 2019 22:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 08 2019 20:54 Acrofales wrote:I really want to know what happened here: RorO & Has (2) I understand Thorzain and Has as someone just disliking all Korean SC2 players (or trolling with the full foreigner vote). I neither dislike Koreans nor was trolling, and had a real hard time deciding who I liked better of Parting or Thorzain. Roro was always going to be the worst though. If he had any entertaining games, Broodlord-Infestor has eclipsed them from my memory. And people who pretend Roro needs to advance "because of performance" still haven't explained to me how Myungsik got through. What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. And what did Dimaga achieve? Won a dreamhack. And placed second quite a few times in other major tournaments. Back around the start of WoL. Round the time when Jinro was also awesome. E: oh, he was second at dreamhack and won ASUS ROG. I remembered those the other way round. Dimaga vs Mana finals both times. So nothing that comes close to GSL ro4...
It's crazy how much you can overvalue Myungsik's sole career achievement which was viewed as a huge fluke even back then. It's one thing to rate highly a one-hit wonder, another to rate highly a performance that came two very big steps short of being one.
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On April 09 2019 22:18 Xain0n wrote:
...Dear were way past their primes,
Not that I have any major interest in anything else in this particular discussion, but since when are you way past your prime in a season where you reach your 3rd consecutive GSL Ro4? Dear was the 3rd best Korean Protoss of 2016, he had worse years.
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On April 10 2019 00:24 Elentos wrote:Not that I have any major interest in anything else in this particular discussion, but since when are you way past your prime in a season where you reach your 3rd consecutive GSL Ro4? Dear was the 3rd best Korean Protoss of 2016, he had worse years.
Well, considering his prime was three years earlier, when he looked for months to be the best player in the world, I'd say he was past his prime. He had worse years, for sure, I'm not saying he was bad.
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On April 09 2019 22:18 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2019 21:06 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 17:02 Harris1st wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 08 2019 22:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 08 2019 20:54 Acrofales wrote:I really want to know what happened here: RorO & Has (2) I understand Thorzain and Has as someone just disliking all Korean SC2 players (or trolling with the full foreigner vote). I neither dislike Koreans nor was trolling, and had a real hard time deciding who I liked better of Parting or Thorzain. Roro was always going to be the worst though. If he had any entertaining games, Broodlord-Infestor has eclipsed them from my memory. And people who pretend Roro needs to advance "because of performance" still haven't explained to me how Myungsik got through. What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. On April 09 2019 01:51 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:47 Acrofales wrote:On April 09 2019 01:42 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 08 2019 22:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 08 2019 20:54 Acrofales wrote:
I really want to know what happened here:
[quote]
I understand Thorzain and Has as someone just disliking all Korean SC2 players (or trolling with the full foreigner vote). I neither dislike Koreans nor was trolling, and had a real hard time deciding who I liked better of Parting or Thorzain. Roro was always going to be the worst though. If he had any entertaining games, Broodlord-Infestor has eclipsed them from my memory. And people who pretend Roro needs to advance "because of performance" still haven't explained to me how Myungsik got through. What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. And what did Dimaga achieve? Won a dreamhack. And placed second quite a few times in other major tournaments. Back around the start of WoL. Round the time when Jinro was also awesome. E: oh, he was second at dreamhack and won ASUS ROG. I remembered those the other way round. Dimaga vs Mana finals both times. So nothing that comes close to GSL ro4... Korean Elitism at its finest. Thank you for proving a point Foreigner bias at its finest. Thank you for proving a point. Please point me to the players DIMAGA beat during his runs that were better than Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats? Nice try, those names are quite impressive, but how strong were they really at the time of Code S S2 2016 when Myungsik defeated them? HerO and Dear were way past their primes, Maru didn't exactly shine in 2016, Gumiho had yet had to win his first Premier tournament; Stats was the only true top player during that period. Dimaga won the Assembly Summer(a tournament almost without koreans) at the start of August in 2011 by beating mostly Stephano and Mana(they hadn't won a Premier too, but Stephano was going to very soon); I don't think the fields can be compared, yet Myungsik's run was way less impressive than it seems now and Dimaga did something Myungsik never did, winning a tournament(he never even won a Major…).
Come on, stop fooling yourself. Myungsik defeating Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats is way more impresssive than Dimaga defeating two winless foreigners. Its just ridiculous that you are even trying to make this huge logical leap I cant understand it.
RO8 GSL is a bigger accomplishment than winning a foreign major at that time when the foreign scene was way weaker than today. Any of these players Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats would have won that tournament if they were there, do you disagree with that?
I'm fine with people voting for whatever they want but saying Dimagas achivements were greater than Myungsik is just..... You really want to make yourself be objectively right that your mind is jumping hoops through bubles on mars...
Personally I voted Myungsik, but I HATED that guys, he was my ultimate antagonist, he kept defeating my favorites and being irksome in proleague, ruining my FPL among other things. I remember him, and its not because he lost.
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On April 10 2019 00:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2019 01:51 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:47 Acrofales wrote:On April 09 2019 01:42 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 08 2019 22:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 08 2019 20:54 Acrofales wrote:I really want to know what happened here: RorO & Has (2) I understand Thorzain and Has as someone just disliking all Korean SC2 players (or trolling with the full foreigner vote). I neither dislike Koreans nor was trolling, and had a real hard time deciding who I liked better of Parting or Thorzain. Roro was always going to be the worst though. If he had any entertaining games, Broodlord-Infestor has eclipsed them from my memory. And people who pretend Roro needs to advance "because of performance" still haven't explained to me how Myungsik got through. What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. And what did Dimaga achieve? Won a dreamhack. And placed second quite a few times in other major tournaments. Back around the start of WoL. Round the time when Jinro was also awesome. E: oh, he was second at dreamhack and won ASUS ROG. I remembered those the other way round. Dimaga vs Mana finals both times. So nothing that comes close to GSL ro4... It's crazy how much you can overvalue Myungsik's sole career achievement which was viewed as a huge fluke even back then. It's one thing to rate highly a one-hit wonder, another to rate highly a performance that came two very big steps short of being one.
Right? Even if GSL Ro4 was as amazing an achievement as it's claimed to be, Myungsik wasn't a Ro4 player, that's just the highest he was able to accomplish with a lucky run. Earlier I said he was half a Jinro, but he's also half an Inca, or a quarter of a Sniper. Myungsik was a GSL bottom feeder, and I can't believe people actually try to make that into an achievement.
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On April 10 2019 02:24 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2019 22:18 Xain0n wrote:On April 09 2019 21:06 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 17:02 Harris1st wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 08 2019 22:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 08 2019 20:54 Acrofales wrote:I really want to know what happened here: RorO & Has (2) I understand Thorzain and Has as someone just disliking all Korean SC2 players (or trolling with the full foreigner vote). I neither dislike Koreans nor was trolling, and had a real hard time deciding who I liked better of Parting or Thorzain. Roro was always going to be the worst though. If he had any entertaining games, Broodlord-Infestor has eclipsed them from my memory. And people who pretend Roro needs to advance "because of performance" still haven't explained to me how Myungsik got through. What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. On April 09 2019 01:51 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:47 Acrofales wrote:On April 09 2019 01:42 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 08 2019 22:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
[quote]
I neither dislike Koreans nor was trolling, and had a real hard time deciding who I liked better of Parting or Thorzain.
Roro was always going to be the worst though. If he had any entertaining games, Broodlord-Infestor has eclipsed them from my memory. And people who pretend Roro needs to advance "because of performance" still haven't explained to me how Myungsik got through. What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. And what did Dimaga achieve? Won a dreamhack. And placed second quite a few times in other major tournaments. Back around the start of WoL. Round the time when Jinro was also awesome. E: oh, he was second at dreamhack and won ASUS ROG. I remembered those the other way round. Dimaga vs Mana finals both times. So nothing that comes close to GSL ro4... Korean Elitism at its finest. Thank you for proving a point Foreigner bias at its finest. Thank you for proving a point. Please point me to the players DIMAGA beat during his runs that were better than Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats? Nice try, those names are quite impressive, but how strong were they really at the time of Code S S2 2016 when Myungsik defeated them? HerO and Dear were way past their primes, Maru didn't exactly shine in 2016, Gumiho had yet had to win his first Premier tournament; Stats was the only true top player during that period. Dimaga won the Assembly Summer(a tournament almost without koreans) at the start of August in 2011 by beating mostly Stephano and Mana(they hadn't won a Premier too, but Stephano was going to very soon); I don't think the fields can be compared, yet Myungsik's run was way less impressive than it seems now and Dimaga did something Myungsik never did, winning a tournament(he never even won a Major…). Come on, stop fooling yourself. Myungsik defeating Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats is way more impresssive than Dimaga defeating two winless foreigners. Its just ridiculous that you are even trying to make this huge logical leap I cant understand it. RO8 GSL is a bigger accomplishment than winning a foreign major at that time when the foreign scene was way weaker than today. Any of these players Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats would have won that tournament if they were there, do you disagree with that? I'm fine with people voting for whatever they want but saying Dimagas achivements were greater than Myungsik is just..... You really want to make yourself be objectively right that your mind is jumping hoops through bubles on mars... Personally I voted Myungsik, but I HATED that guys, he was my ultimate antagonist, he kept defeating my favorites and being irksome in proleague, ruining my FPL among other things. I remember him, and its not because he lost.
I'm calling bullshit on that. Myungsik played once or twice a round in FPL, didn't cost many points, and would have won you or lost you a little depending on the round. I don't see how he could ruin someone's FPL.
RorO now was a true ruiner of FPLs. He was heavily main-teamed and anti-teamed, and equally likely to either beat other teams' aces or lose to complete unknowns like Bear.
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On April 10 2019 02:24 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2019 22:18 Xain0n wrote:On April 09 2019 21:06 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 17:02 Harris1st wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 08 2019 22:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 08 2019 20:54 Acrofales wrote:I really want to know what happened here: RorO & Has (2) I understand Thorzain and Has as someone just disliking all Korean SC2 players (or trolling with the full foreigner vote). I neither dislike Koreans nor was trolling, and had a real hard time deciding who I liked better of Parting or Thorzain. Roro was always going to be the worst though. If he had any entertaining games, Broodlord-Infestor has eclipsed them from my memory. And people who pretend Roro needs to advance "because of performance" still haven't explained to me how Myungsik got through. What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. On April 09 2019 01:51 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:47 Acrofales wrote:On April 09 2019 01:42 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 08 2019 22:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
[quote]
I neither dislike Koreans nor was trolling, and had a real hard time deciding who I liked better of Parting or Thorzain.
Roro was always going to be the worst though. If he had any entertaining games, Broodlord-Infestor has eclipsed them from my memory. And people who pretend Roro needs to advance "because of performance" still haven't explained to me how Myungsik got through. What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. And what did Dimaga achieve? Won a dreamhack. And placed second quite a few times in other major tournaments. Back around the start of WoL. Round the time when Jinro was also awesome. E: oh, he was second at dreamhack and won ASUS ROG. I remembered those the other way round. Dimaga vs Mana finals both times. So nothing that comes close to GSL ro4... Korean Elitism at its finest. Thank you for proving a point Foreigner bias at its finest. Thank you for proving a point. Please point me to the players DIMAGA beat during his runs that were better than Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats? Nice try, those names are quite impressive, but how strong were they really at the time of Code S S2 2016 when Myungsik defeated them? HerO and Dear were way past their primes, Maru didn't exactly shine in 2016, Gumiho had yet had to win his first Premier tournament; Stats was the only true top player during that period. Dimaga won the Assembly Summer(a tournament almost without koreans) at the start of August in 2011 by beating mostly Stephano and Mana(they hadn't won a Premier too, but Stephano was going to very soon); I don't think the fields can be compared, yet Myungsik's run was way less impressive than it seems now and Dimaga did something Myungsik never did, winning a tournament(he never even won a Major…). Come on, stop fooling yourself. Myungsik defeating Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats is way more impresssive than Dimaga defeating two winless foreigners. Its just ridiculous that you are even trying to make this huge logical leap I cant understand it. RO8 GSL is a bigger accomplishment than winning a foreign major at that time when the foreign scene was way weaker than today. Any of these players Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats would have won that tournament if they were there, do you disagree with that? I'm fine with people voting for whatever they want but saying Dimagas achivements were greater than Myungsik is just..... You really want to make yourself be objectively right that your mind is jumping hoops through bubles on mars... Personally I voted Myungsik, but I HATED that guys, he was my ultimate antagonist, he kept defeating my favorites and being irksome in proleague, ruining my FPL among other things. I remember him, and its not because he lost.
Were you watching Sc2 at the time? It doesn't seem so, or maybe HoTS made you forget the foreigner scene was actually relevant in WoL, more or less like in LoTV: while there never was a player of the caliber of Serral, there wasn't any kind of region lock and foreigners were capable of winning a good amount of tournaments starring top koreans.
To answer your question, at Assembly Summer(a Premier, not a Major tournament) Mana 2-0d NaDA, a Code S ro16 player at the time; none of the koreans you named would have stood a chanche in the month of August, 2011.
Stats and Dear would have beaten Dimaga for sure...if they played Brood War(both would have switched to Sc2 in 2012) while HerO, Gumiho and Maru were Code A players; so, no, they wouldn't have won the tournament.
Considering Premier tournaments only, Dimaga also reached second place twice, third place twice and fourth place twice(the last being WCS EU in 2013, where he lost to Mvp who ended up winning the event).
Now, you want to tell me a single code S ro4 run against strong yet out of shape/slumping opponents and Proleague results such as 2-6 or 3-4 with KT Rolster placing high or winning(I am definitely impressed, I remembered a positive record) are greater achievements than Dimaga's? "Ridicolous", "fooling myself", uh?
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Canada8987 Posts
I have to say I'm kinda proud of my wild card players list, Boxer and Myungsik have been hit
Should have put Fanta instead of one of the chinese tho.
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On April 10 2019 04:33 Nakajin wrote:I have to say I'm kinda proud of my wild card players list, Boxer and Myungsik have been hit Should have put Fanta instead of one of the chinese tho.
yeah if it gets people this riled up you must be doing something right
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Dimaga carrier happened between 2010/3 and concerned the foreigner scene while Myungsik got unnoticed until lotv when he made a ro4 in gsl, it's ridiculous to compare.
Overall, the format is quite bad and the real goat is missing, so it's not really interesting.
On April 09 2019 19:17 Ej_ wrote:
Still waiting for Acrofales to explain how RorO wasn't the best Zerg player during his reign.
The game was heavely imbalance at the time, it creates specific condition like prioritizing 1 mu, the best zerg attribution is far fetched imo.
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On April 10 2019 04:32 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2019 02:24 Shuffleblade wrote:On April 09 2019 22:18 Xain0n wrote:On April 09 2019 21:06 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 17:02 Harris1st wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 08 2019 22:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 08 2019 20:54 Acrofales wrote:I really want to know what happened here: RorO & Has (2) I understand Thorzain and Has as someone just disliking all Korean SC2 players (or trolling with the full foreigner vote). I neither dislike Koreans nor was trolling, and had a real hard time deciding who I liked better of Parting or Thorzain. Roro was always going to be the worst though. If he had any entertaining games, Broodlord-Infestor has eclipsed them from my memory. And people who pretend Roro needs to advance "because of performance" still haven't explained to me how Myungsik got through. What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. On April 09 2019 01:51 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:47 Acrofales wrote:On April 09 2019 01:42 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:
[quote]
What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. And what did Dimaga achieve? Won a dreamhack. And placed second quite a few times in other major tournaments. Back around the start of WoL. Round the time when Jinro was also awesome. E: oh, he was second at dreamhack and won ASUS ROG. I remembered those the other way round. Dimaga vs Mana finals both times. So nothing that comes close to GSL ro4... Korean Elitism at its finest. Thank you for proving a point Foreigner bias at its finest. Thank you for proving a point. Please point me to the players DIMAGA beat during his runs that were better than Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats? Nice try, those names are quite impressive, but how strong were they really at the time of Code S S2 2016 when Myungsik defeated them? HerO and Dear were way past their primes, Maru didn't exactly shine in 2016, Gumiho had yet had to win his first Premier tournament; Stats was the only true top player during that period. Dimaga won the Assembly Summer(a tournament almost without koreans) at the start of August in 2011 by beating mostly Stephano and Mana(they hadn't won a Premier too, but Stephano was going to very soon); I don't think the fields can be compared, yet Myungsik's run was way less impressive than it seems now and Dimaga did something Myungsik never did, winning a tournament(he never even won a Major…). Come on, stop fooling yourself. Myungsik defeating Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats is way more impresssive than Dimaga defeating two winless foreigners. Its just ridiculous that you are even trying to make this huge logical leap I cant understand it. RO8 GSL is a bigger accomplishment than winning a foreign major at that time when the foreign scene was way weaker than today. Any of these players Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats would have won that tournament if they were there, do you disagree with that? I'm fine with people voting for whatever they want but saying Dimagas achivements were greater than Myungsik is just..... You really want to make yourself be objectively right that your mind is jumping hoops through bubles on mars... Personally I voted Myungsik, but I HATED that guys, he was my ultimate antagonist, he kept defeating my favorites and being irksome in proleague, ruining my FPL among other things. I remember him, and its not because he lost. Were you watching Sc2 at the time? It doesn't seem so, or maybe HoTS made you forget the foreigner scene was actually relevant in WoL, more or less like in LoTV: while there never was a player of the caliber of Serral, there wasn't any kind of region lock and foreigners were capable of winning a good amount of tournaments starring top koreans. To answer your question, at Assembly Summer(a Premier, not a Major tournament) Mana 2-0d NaDA, a Code S ro16 player at the time; none of the koreans you named would have stood a chanche in the month of August, 2011. Stats and Dear would have beaten Dimaga for sure...if they played Brood War(both would have switched to Sc2 in 2012) while HerO, Gumiho and Maru were Code A players; so, no, they wouldn't have won the tournament. Considering Premier tournaments only, Dimaga also reached second place twice, third place twice and fourth place twice(the last being WCS EU in 2013, where he lost to Mvp who ended up winning the event). Now, you want to tell me a single code S ro4 run against strong yet out of shape/slumping opponents and Proleague results such as 2-6 or 3-4 with KT Rolster placing high or winning(I am definitely impressed, I remembered a positive record) are greater achievements than Dimaga's? "Ridicolous", "fooling myself", uh?
Actually no, I stared watching SC2 early 2012 so I guess I'm very partial towards the periods where I actually was a part of the scene. Feels like I've been here for the majority of the SC2 lifespan so I rarely get to realize how out of touch I am with the early players and whay was going on in the scene then.
I was way out of line, sorry for my needlessly aggressive remarks you do make valid points.
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On April 10 2019 05:31 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2019 04:32 Xain0n wrote:On April 10 2019 02:24 Shuffleblade wrote:On April 09 2019 22:18 Xain0n wrote:On April 09 2019 21:06 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 17:02 Harris1st wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 09 2019 01:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 08 2019 22:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On April 08 2019 20:54 Acrofales wrote:
I really want to know what happened here:
[quote]
I understand Thorzain and Has as someone just disliking all Korean SC2 players (or trolling with the full foreigner vote). I neither dislike Koreans nor was trolling, and had a real hard time deciding who I liked better of Parting or Thorzain. Roro was always going to be the worst though. If he had any entertaining games, Broodlord-Infestor has eclipsed them from my memory. And people who pretend Roro needs to advance "because of performance" still haven't explained to me how Myungsik got through. What? Are you suggesting Dimaga or Moon should be ahead of Myungsik? What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. On April 09 2019 01:51 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:47 Acrofales wrote:On April 09 2019 01:42 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2019 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
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What do you mean "suggesting"? Myungsik achieved nothing of relevance, even the most brain-addled GSL-is-the-only-tournament-that-matters fanatic can only raise him up to be worth half a Jinro. And what did Dimaga achieve? Won a dreamhack. And placed second quite a few times in other major tournaments. Back around the start of WoL. Round the time when Jinro was also awesome. E: oh, he was second at dreamhack and won ASUS ROG. I remembered those the other way round. Dimaga vs Mana finals both times. So nothing that comes close to GSL ro4... Korean Elitism at its finest. Thank you for proving a point Foreigner bias at its finest. Thank you for proving a point. Please point me to the players DIMAGA beat during his runs that were better than Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats? Nice try, those names are quite impressive, but how strong were they really at the time of Code S S2 2016 when Myungsik defeated them? HerO and Dear were way past their primes, Maru didn't exactly shine in 2016, Gumiho had yet had to win his first Premier tournament; Stats was the only true top player during that period. Dimaga won the Assembly Summer(a tournament almost without koreans) at the start of August in 2011 by beating mostly Stephano and Mana(they hadn't won a Premier too, but Stephano was going to very soon); I don't think the fields can be compared, yet Myungsik's run was way less impressive than it seems now and Dimaga did something Myungsik never did, winning a tournament(he never even won a Major…). Come on, stop fooling yourself. Myungsik defeating Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats is way more impresssive than Dimaga defeating two winless foreigners. Its just ridiculous that you are even trying to make this huge logical leap I cant understand it. RO8 GSL is a bigger accomplishment than winning a foreign major at that time when the foreign scene was way weaker than today. Any of these players Gumiho, Maru, Dear, HerO and Stats would have won that tournament if they were there, do you disagree with that? I'm fine with people voting for whatever they want but saying Dimagas achivements were greater than Myungsik is just..... You really want to make yourself be objectively right that your mind is jumping hoops through bubles on mars... Personally I voted Myungsik, but I HATED that guys, he was my ultimate antagonist, he kept defeating my favorites and being irksome in proleague, ruining my FPL among other things. I remember him, and its not because he lost. Were you watching Sc2 at the time? It doesn't seem so, or maybe HoTS made you forget the foreigner scene was actually relevant in WoL, more or less like in LoTV: while there never was a player of the caliber of Serral, there wasn't any kind of region lock and foreigners were capable of winning a good amount of tournaments starring top koreans. To answer your question, at Assembly Summer(a Premier, not a Major tournament) Mana 2-0d NaDA, a Code S ro16 player at the time; none of the koreans you named would have stood a chanche in the month of August, 2011. Stats and Dear would have beaten Dimaga for sure...if they played Brood War(both would have switched to Sc2 in 2012) while HerO, Gumiho and Maru were Code A players; so, no, they wouldn't have won the tournament. Considering Premier tournaments only, Dimaga also reached second place twice, third place twice and fourth place twice(the last being WCS EU in 2013, where he lost to Mvp who ended up winning the event). Now, you want to tell me a single code S ro4 run against strong yet out of shape/slumping opponents and Proleague results such as 2-6 or 3-4 with KT Rolster placing high or winning(I am definitely impressed, I remembered a positive record) are greater achievements than Dimaga's? "Ridicolous", "fooling myself", uh? Actually no, I stared watching SC2 early 2012 so I guess I'm very partial towards the periods where I actually was a part of the scene. Feels like I've been here for the majority of the SC2 lifespan so I rarely get to realize how out of touch I am with the early players and whay was going on in the scene then. I was way out of line, sorry for my needlessly aggressive remarks you do make valid points.
No problem, you are welcome 
I loved Dimaga back in the day, that bo3 against NesTea was really exciting.
It's easy to forget certain players were world class in the past after many years of mediocrity(in Dimaga's case age can be a factor, but think about Creator; he is younger than Ragnarok and won his last Premier tournament in 2012, it's hard to believe he once was the Protoss equivalent of Maru and Life).
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On April 10 2019 04:33 Nakajin wrote:I have to say I'm kinda proud of my wild card players list, Boxer and Myungsik have been hit Should have put Fanta instead of one of the chinese tho.
SHOULDVE PUT CLIIIIIIDE
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On April 09 2019 21:30 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2019 20:08 Acrofales wrote:On April 09 2019 19:17 Ej_ wrote:
Still waiting for Acrofales to explain how RorO wasn't the best Zerg player during his reign. There were better zergs at the time, they just didn't show up that GSL. Soulkey and Life were both undeniably better than RorO during that period. Losing 1 match doesn't mean you are suddenly not the best, and winning the GSL doesn't mean you suddenly are. Jjakji was never the best terran, despite winning GSL. And Inca wasn't the best Protoss that one time he was second in a GSL (and got trounced by Nestea, thank god). I will address this once Aligulac gets up again, as I have no time to go through offline matches of these players manualy atm.
Ok, let's go:
I picked the period to go over as:
the 6th of January (the first day of Up&Down in GSL) to the 9th of March (the last day of Code S, RorO vs Symbol)
quick filter for WoL games during that period (no filter, with regards to offline/online or opponent's nationality for now)
RorO
- 69,57% map winrate ( 46 maps )
- 76% series winrate ( 25 series )
- GSL win, solid Proleague performance ( 9-4 )
Life
- 66,7% map winrate ( 53 maps)
- 73,68% series winrate ( 19 series )
- Iron Squid victory over DongRaeGu
Soulkey
- 60% map winrate ( 25 maps )
- 50% series winrate ( 15 series )
- strong GSL, but awful Proleague performance (only lost 2:3 to MKP in GSL, but went 2:5 in PL)
I'll notice and admit that this time frame is actually very good for RorO (but again, I'm arguing here that he was the best Zerg during that period).
It's very easy to compare him and Soulkey as both were KeSPA players bound by KeSPA rules and participated in the same tournaments. RorO happened to smash TaeJa who had just eliminated SK from GSL and had very strong Proleague results, compared to Soulkey's sucky not-even-29% winrate across 7 games.
It's more troublesome with Life, as following his GSL loss, he went on to win Iron Squid, but I think it's clear (at least to me it is), that Code S was a tournament of much higher caliber (many more strong players, Life's Iron Squid was actually made of Koreans who had already been eliminated from Code S). Life also had no results in a tournament comparable to Proleague on the side, like SK and RorO could redeem themselves with.
However, I think the most compelling argument is RorO's stellar performance across the most series out of the 3.
RorO maintained higher map and series winrate across more series than the other 2*.
I will admit I was very curious if there was a way to present a case for any Zerg over RorO during the period stated, but it seems that he was, while not by a long shot, the best performing Zerg player between the start and the end of the GSL season he won.
I am happy to be presented with some other metrics though. I am curious myself about Proleague records of RorO and Soulkey over periods a bit longer than the GSL season in talk (to include full rounds), as SK was in general a very strong PL player. I will make sure to check that when I have a bit more free time and post an update in this thread.
* - You could even make a case that the reason Life played more maps during that time, is Life simply losing more maps in boX series. (RorO went 4-1 vs MKP and 4-2 vs Symbol)
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On April 10 2019 12:09 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2019 04:33 Nakajin wrote:I have to say I'm kinda proud of my wild card players list, Boxer and Myungsik have been hit Should have put Fanta instead of one of the chinese tho. SHOULDVE PUT CLIIIIIIDE
I mean, there's no point in having a popularity contest at that point. Who could stand against Clide?
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Canada8987 Posts
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Canada8987 Posts
New polls
Some of my personal favourite groups this time around,
In group 14 and 15 we have two protoss on top of the group with potentially interesting second place race.
Group 30 is perhaps the more open group of all of them, three of the greatest foreigner in NA (according to WCS) with BuyL who have the sad part of being the forgotten Korean kong.
And finally we have the finalists of the first ever Blizzcon in Loner and Genius with Jaedong and Select.
Theses polls are closed
Group 14
Poll: Who are the greatest players?You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Zest & Stardust
☐ Zest & Kiwikaki
☐ Zest & Ret
☐ Stardust & Kiwikaki
☐ Stardust & Ret
☐ Kiwikaki & Ret
Group 15
Poll: Who are the greatest players?You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ sOs & viOLet
☐ sOs & Symbol
☐ sOs & VortiX
☐ viOLet & Symbol
☐ viOLet & VortiX
☐ Symbol & VortiX
Group 30
Poll: Who are the greatest players?You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Huk & Scarlett
☐ Huk & BuyL
☐ Huk & Sen
☐ Scarlett & BuyL
☐ Scarlett & Sen
☐ Sen & BuyL
Group 31
Poll: Who are the greatest players?You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Jaedong & Genius
☐ Jaedong & SeleCT
☐ Jaedong & Loner
☐ Genius & SeleCT
☐ Genius & Loner
☐ SeleCT & Loner
Group are open until Saturday April 13 around 20h00 EST
Theses polls are closed
Also I have a direct line to BuyL and can confirm you, its definitely how you should write his name
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Pretty sure it's ByuL? 
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EPT
