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Sweden33719 Posts
f this was a Bi-annual ladder with a one time entry of under a tenner this would be I guess. I would be worried that it would split the community. For example would a win in a pay in tournament be more prestigous than a free tourney?
Eh, prestige from/for who? Yeah a good record in $ tournaments is probably gonna look better, dunno what the problem is. Having a good ladder record already looks better than a poor one.
I a more personal note I feel that although adding loads of pay in tournaments may make the game more competitive it would probably be at the cost of fun.
Whose fun..? I think prize money makes it more fun.
I would much rather the rewards of the best players come from Sponsors than the average Joe.
Sponsoring is not plausible for small, every day tournaments..
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The biggest obstacle towards buy-in SnG tournaments is hacking. Whether we like it or not, people will find a way to exploit the game using in-game glitches, map hacks, etc. There's also a whole shit-load of legal issues that Blizzard would have to deal with.
I do like the idea of having the ability to create mini-tournaments whenever you want though, kind of like having Battlereports.com built into BNet.
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I would do it if it was like five bucks to join. If a lot of the money went into anti-hacks and making servers better I think it would be a good idea.
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is awesome32263 Posts
Take money away, give something else to the players, icon upgrades on battle.net a badge or more "EXP" in bnet for icons or whatever. Maybe their replays of the games uploaded in the Battle.net site.
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Spending money to play it automatically excludes a lot of potential players. I, for example, don't have a paypal account or credit card, so I don't have any quick way of putting up money for a tournament like this. Also, for me (and many others) the entrance fee is basically losing money unless I actually have a fighting chance (which I wouldn't in an open tournament).
So, I see a couple solutions to this.
1) Not a money tournament, like IntoTheWow suggested. More ladder points, icons, whatever are a reward large enough to entice players (as long as the tournaments aren't too inconvenient). Also, with nothing to be lost, the problem of people weary to gamble on their success is avoided.
2) Leveled money tournaments. If I know I'm playing against only other shitty players, then I would be more willing to put up some cash. There are some big problems with this though. First, Smurfing could be an issue, but I believe Blizzard could find a solution. Second, it would increase the time for a tournament to fill up because the properly ranked players would have to be found. Third, there's still the issue of people who are unable to easily put up money.
I think non monetary online tournaments would be best. If there was no loss penalty (in terms of rank) and a substantial reward in ranking for the winners, I believe such a tournament could easily entice players. If ladder rankings were tied into placing to monetary tournaments, there would even be the cash prize as an incentive to play.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Can someone explain why there shouldn't be a $ tournament just becausee you can't/don't want to play in them?
It's like saying "Well, I don't play FFA, so could you please not include FFA in the AMM? I don't want that gametype to steal players away from the game modes I want to play".
There will still be free tournaments, and if you give these tournaments decent rewards (tickets to bigger tournaments, ladder points, icons) they will still attract good players if that's what you are worried about (they will attract players regardless).
Hell you could even have some kind of point reward system for "achievments" (those seem to be all the rage these days) in the ladder/in free tournaments, that you can then trade in for, say, products in the blizzard store or, perhaps, entries into $ tournaments.
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is awesome32263 Posts
On June 29 2008 06:09 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Can someone explain why there shouldn't be a $ tournament just becausee you can't/don't want to play in them?
It's like saying "Well, I don't play FFA, so could you please not include FFA in the AMM? I don't want that gametype to steal players away from the game modes I want to play".
No it's not like that.
Some people are below 18 and can't get money to play on tournaments even though they are good.
Imagine By.BaBy on battle.net? Or anybody like him wanting to play, even though hes great. It takes something away from the TOURNAMENT not from US.
You are restricting the player based not because of people liking or not liking tournaments but for an impossibility to play.
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is awesome32263 Posts
Even though you could do what you said (winning tickets to bigger tournies but winning free ones, you are basically doing what shitty mmorpgs do, give an advantage to the player willing to play cash.
What you are saying would be like an iccup tourney were only B+ players can't enter. But hey, if you are D- and want to pay 10$, we will let you in.
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Good point. What I should have said was that I wasn't sure about the interest in monetary tournaments. They would work incredibly well on poker software because there is a large player base and the entire player base is in it to gamble. For online SC2, unless there is a large enough competitive player base that is willing to gamble money (and varying levels of skill unless the lesser players would be wary of playing), automated money tournaments wouldn't be possible.
If there is enough players to keep an automated money tournament system going I don't think there is any real worry about free tournaments losing too many players because the online player base would have to be very large to support the money tournaments. There will always be players not willing or wanting to gamble money, and as such there will always be a base for non money tournaments.
I don't think there will be a large enough player base for automated money tournaments, and that is why I don't think it will work well. Weekly money tournaments, hell, possibly even daily money tournaments would work out much better, imo.
-edit- This post it to FrozenArbiter's most recent post, and I'm loving the automated links for "poker"
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Sweden33719 Posts
@Intothewow
It's nothing like that -.-
It's like an ICCUP tourney where anyone can enter.
As long as they want to pay 10$.
I played in TLTour.
I was what? 15? 14?
Of course the 15 year olds without credit cards are gonna have a hard time playing in these things but so what, if they really want to they can get their parents/siblings to help them out. In the case of someone like By.Baby he'd have no trouble getting his team to sponsor him.
There's a minimum age for going to blizzcon (IIRC).
There's a minimum age for buying SC.
There are tournaments going on in korea all the time that you can't join because you don't speak the language, because they use some korean web-room service to pay for the entrance fees (iirc so called dotori betgames were paid in 'points' on some website which you can convert into $? not sure, just what I seem to remember hearing a few years back), because it's the wrong time of day, because it's in the wrong part of the world.
There's a minimum age or other forms of restrictions for a lot of things, I don't think it's unfair - it's just the way the cookie crumbles. You can't have everything be accessible to everyone, and you shouldn't limit what you can do just because some people can't do it. They'll find a way to play eventually, be that through sponsorship (from getting good) or because they finally turned 18.
In the meantime they can play free tournaments.
I guess our logic is just totally different, the way I see it, the only way for non-stop running $ tournaments to exist is with a buyin fee, so who cares if that restricts the playerbase somewhat? Without the buyin fee they wouldn't even exist. If there was no alternative for them I could understand it, if I was talking about making the main ladder pay to play I'd agree with you. But this is nothing like that, it's an option. It's an alternative. It's an alternative that has a free alternative-alternative.
I'm probably done with this argument for today, I'm feeling extremely grumpy and annoyed and I'm not sure why. Probably frustration from wanting to watch SC/hear something new about SC2 but getting served WoW instead. Damn WWI -.-
On June 29 2008 06:25 Kwidowmaker wrote:
Good point. What I should have said was that I wasn't sure about the interest in monetary tournaments. They would work incredibly well on poker software because there is a large player base and the entire player base is in it to gamble. For online SC2, unless there is a large enough competitive player base that is willing to gamble money (and varying levels of skill unless the lesser players would be wary of playing), automated money tournaments wouldn't be possible.
If there is enough players to keep an automated money tournament system going I don't think there is any real worry about free tournaments losing too many players because the online player base would have to be very large to support the money tournaments. There will always be players not willing or wanting to gamble money, and as such there will always be a base for non money tournaments.
I don't think there will be a large enough player base for automated money tournaments, and that is why I don't think it will work well. Weekly money tournaments, hell, possibly even daily money tournaments would work out much better, imo.
The way I want it to work, this would sort itself out on its own..
Say we have a tournament tab in battle.net, you click it and you get to a list of available tournaments (as well as filters such as buyin levels, registering/running/finished, free or $).
Everytime one tournament fills up (ie say they are 16 man tournaments), a new one pops up. This way player interest will regulate the amount of tournaments on its own.
Maybe there's only enough interest to run one or two tournaments a day ($ ones), but that's fine.
![[image loading]](http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7226/sitngoxs9.jpg)
Everyone one tournament fills, a new one is created. I don't expect it to be like poker where you can have a new 4$ 180 man tournament starting every 15 minutes, but that's not needed.
The free tournaments could be like that tho, and I fully expect them to outnumber the $ tournaments by a lot.
How often do you think the 5000$ sit n gos fill? Probably not very often, but they are still there, and it's fine.
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is awesome32263 Posts
The example I was giving of By.Baby is because of his age and skill not because he's a semi pro. Of course his team is going to pay for him. Don't compare the age of buying Starcraft please, no one follows that kind of rules. I am not putting to question the mature age of someone to view a tourney but the skill and money involved in these tournaments.
Blizzard can't physically change timezones or languages of different parts of the world. It's not within their power, so that argument is way out of place here.
First of all, I don't think Blizzard is going to let money be in movement in the middle. How are you exactly going to handle prizes to the winners? Where is money going to be collected? The only place where you pay for something in Blizzard is for WoW subscriptions (Which you can't get anywhere) or for a game at Blizzard store. I don't see Blizzard putting a system to make money go around like that.
Going back to the reduced player base for tournaments:
It's nothing like that -.-
It's like an ICCUP tourney where anyone can enter.
As long as they want to pay 10$.
It's like that. Explain why it isn't?
A D- player wants to play in a sit n' go tournament, he pays 10$ and he's in.
A B+ player who is 14 and can't get a credit card because his parent don't let him wants in, he has to win another free tournament (which will probably get more filled than the ones with admission fee) to be able to play.
I just don't see the point of adding money in the middle? You can give players other kind of stuff, from "fame" in the battle.net site (like Blizzard did back when Starcraft didn't have replays) or icons and things on battle.net (like they do in W3). Hey, even give them maybe a bigger profile? colors in nickname? Whatever. It works.
If you want to make a profession out of Starcraft then get good and go play tourneys, you can travel in between. I don't get why people want to mix poker with Starcraft :S. Starcraft its not made for everyone to win money in. Of course a reduced number of people can, progamers.
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Sweden33719 Posts
It's like that. Explain why it isn't?
A D- player wants to play in a sit n' go tournament, he pays 10$ and he's in.
A B+ player who is 14 and can't get a credit card because his parent don't let him wants in, he has to win another free tournament (which will probably get more filled than the ones with admission fee) to be able to play.
No, you said:
What you are saying would be like an iccup tourney were only B+ players can't enter. But hey, if you are D- and want to pay 10$, we will let you in.
I'm assuming can't enter = can enter since otherwise it doesn't make sense.
The tournament is open to anyone who wants to pay, it doesn't matter what skill level. Saying this is bad is as ridiculous as saying a tournament that's only open to B+ or C+ is bad.
If the 14 year old with no credit card wants to play he can either go play in some of the free ones and try to qualify or get someone to pay for him. Also, have you ever considered that maybe it's not such a bad thing to prevent/make it a little bit harder for a 14 year old to blow through a bunch of money?
Somehow all the 14 year olds in the world manage to get their parents to pay for their WoW subscriptions tho so I don't see a big issue.
I just don't see the point of adding money in the middle? You can give players other kind of stuff, from "fame" in the battle.net site (like Blizzard did back when Starcraft didn't have replays) or icons and things on battle.net (like they do in W3). Hey, even give them maybe a bigger profile? colors in nickname? Whatever. It works.
Add that to the free tournaments then, there'll no doubt be more of these anyway. Many more probably.
Money means incentive. Incentive means competition and growth, if there's enough growth a viable way for the semi-pros to make some sort of living might arise. I see this as good.
But beyond all of that, playing for money is fun. That plain and simple. Playing to win a prize is fucking awesome.
If you want to make a profession out of Starcraft then get good and go play tourneys, you can travel in between. I don't get why people want to mix poker with Starcraft :S. Starcraft its not made for everyone to win money in. Of course a reduced number of people can, progamers.
And I don't get why you don't want to mix the two, as it doesn't affect you :C
If you don't want to play in the $ tournaments then don't, but why stop others from doing so?
I obviously play poker and maybe I've been doing that for too long now because some of the objections in this thread are completely alien to me in their logic.
Btw I apoligize if I come off rude anywhere, I'm extremely irritable today -.-
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I feel your pain FA. I feel your pain. +_+
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I don't know if people were saying $10 just to put out an amount, but $10 is too much in my opinion. $5 is much more reasonable.
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is awesome32263 Posts
On June 29 2008 07:20 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +It's like that. Explain why it isn't?
A D- player wants to play in a sit n' go tournament, he pays 10$ and he's in.
A B+ player who is 14 and can't get a credit card because his parent don't let him wants in, he has to win another free tournament (which will probably get more filled than the ones with admission fee) to be able to play.
No, you said: Show nested quote +What you are saying would be like an iccup tourney were only B+ players can't enter. But hey, if you are D- and want to pay 10$, we will let you in. I'm assuming can't enter = can enter since otherwise it doesn't make sense. The tournament is open to anyone who wants to pay, it doesn't matter what skill level. Saying this is bad is as ridiculous as saying a tournament that's only open to B+ or C+ is bad. If the 14 year old with no credit card wants to play he can either go play in some of the free ones and try to qualify or get someone to pay for him. Also, have you ever considered that maybe it's not such a bad thing to prevent/make it a little bit harder for a 14 year old to blow through a bunch of money? Somehow all the 14 year olds in the world manage to get their parents to pay for their WoW subscriptions tho so I don't see a big issue. Show nested quote +I just don't see the point of adding money in the middle? You can give players other kind of stuff, from "fame" in the battle.net site (like Blizzard did back when Starcraft didn't have replays) or icons and things on battle.net (like they do in W3). Hey, even give them maybe a bigger profile? colors in nickname? Whatever. It works. Add that to the free tournaments then, there'll no doubt be more of these anyway. Many more probably. Money means incentive. Incentive means competition and growth, if there's enough growth a viable way for the semi-pros to make some sort of living might arise. I see this as good. But beyond all of that, playing for money is fun. That plain and simple. Playing to win a prize is fucking awesome. Show nested quote +If you want to make a profession out of Starcraft then get good and go play tourneys, you can travel in between. I don't get why people want to mix poker with Starcraft :S. Starcraft its not made for everyone to win money in. Of course a reduced number of people can, progamers. And I don't get why you don't want to mix the two, as it doesn't affect you :C If you don't want to play in the $ tournaments then don't, but why stop others from doing so? I obviously play poker and maybe I've been doing that for too long now because some of the objections in this thread are completely alien to me in their logic. Btw I apoligize if I come off rude anywhere, I'm extremely irritable today -.-
Yeah I phrased the first quote badly, I didn't mean that.
I don't mean to sound insulting but I just don't see the incentive it generates, or what good things can come from it. There's little good things from it and LOTS of problems imo.
You got TLTour for example. TLTour did good, people gave good feedback about it. But having money sit n go tournaments incorporated to battle.net is a totally different thing.
First of all you need an active anti-hack team to check all the replays and make a fair gaming environment. Of course this people have to be from Blizzard, since Blizzard is running the whole thing. Will Blizzard pay an anti-hack team to keep tournaments clean? The current state of hacking on battle.net tells otherwise. Once money is put in between hackers are going to have much more incentive to ruin this for you too. Also if the winner takes the money, one the tournament is done, if the winner is a hacker he can just 'run away' with his money and it will worth for him even if they ban his cdkey (50$ game or much less as you can see from BW today vs money from a 16 tournament. 16 x 10$ = 160$ to make an example.
Second you need to get this whole thing diagrammed, which maps can be played? the need a Blizz symbol, since maps can be abused too (hi lastshadow). What about methods to pay for it? You will be stuck with paypal?
Third: continuity. TLTour was great but it was only a couple of times and not continuously. Do you think you can get people to pay 15$ or 10$ all day to keep this tournaments filled? The current BW player base is huge, but take away all umsers, fastest players, moneymaps players. You get like the number of Iccup players or PGTour or whatever that are willing to play competitive. Now ask how many of those can or are willing to pay daily or weekly for money tournaments? I don't see money tournaments getting filled to play like "Sit n go" style.
Fourth: divides the player base. Some people get into tournaments for fun because they are free. Even though they are going to lose, they play because they get the chance to play with someone better or because its fun. Check the BW section, every weekend it gets new threads of new tournaments being announced here. If you divide the player base you are taking that away from those players, and divide the community of [UMS - Money - competitive] into [UMS - money - competitive - more competitive].
I think the problems are way bigger than the good things that can come from it (make some extra money from playing a game). If the game is good and people like it, you will get good players playing each anyway. Money prize tournaments will be held up anyway and with bigger cash prizes. You will get replays of good players playing each other (or vods) too.
I think its better to leave this to community sites + sponsors.
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This sounds like a good idea. Maybe (gasp) the WoW community could even help us because i'm guessing they would try out sc2 and unlike our community they are actually willing to pay a few bucks for an optimized experience.
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On June 29 2008 06:56 IntoTheWow wrote:
First of all, I don't think Blizzard is going to let money be in movement in the middle. How are you exactly going to handle prizes to the winners? Where is money going to be collected? The only place where you pay for something in Blizzard is for WoW subscriptions (Which you can't get anywhere) or for a game at Blizzard store. I don't see Blizzard putting a system to make money go around like that. Generally, with new games, companies gain the ability to integrate new features and services into their business model. This means that looking at the current abilities of Blizzard to take in and dole out money aren't really applicable at all to this discussion. They could very easily develop a system to hold money until a tournament ends and then pass it on to the winner(s).
On June 29 2008 06:56 IntoTheWow wrote:Going back to the reduced player base for tournaments: Show nested quote +
It's nothing like that -.-
It's like an ICCUP tourney where anyone can enter.
As long as they want to pay 10$.
It's like that. Explain why it isn't? A D- player wants to play in a sit n' go tournament, he pays 10$ and he's in. A B+ player who is 14 and can't get a credit card because his parent don't let him wants in, he has to win another free tournament (which will probably get more filled than the ones with admission fee) to be able to play.
Listen, the skill of a 14 year old player in this case is completely irrelevant. If the service is only availible to 18+, it doesn't matter how skilled they are, they must still meet the minimum requirements. As an easy example, let's look at online poker: If you aren't 18, it doesn't matter how great at poker you are, you aren't allowed to deposit money and play. So by your logic, no poker games should be played for money online because certain people don't meet the minimum requirements.
Its great people under the age of 18 can become quite skilled at the game. But they're still under 18, and they'd have to wait to play for money. Tough shit. Lots of things have minimum requirements in this world, and if you don't meet those, you can't do them. That doesn't mean they aren't good endeavors for the people who *do* meet those requirements and it certainly doesn't mean they should be done away with.
On June 29 2008 06:56 IntoTheWow wrote:
I just don't see the point of adding money in the middle? You can give players other kind of stuff, from "fame" in the battle.net site (like Blizzard did back when Starcraft didn't have replays) or icons and things on battle.net (like they do in W3). Hey, even give them maybe a bigger profile? colors in nickname? Whatever. It works.
If you want to make a profession out of Starcraft then get good and go play tourneys, you can travel in between. I don't get why people want to mix poker with Starcraft :S. Starcraft its not made for everyone to win money in. Of course a reduced number of people can, progamers.
The reason for money in the middle is for added incentives. Added incentives can make things more fun, and I completely agree with FA that putting money on the line would make tournaments more fun. I also believe it would make the game more competitive and increase the overall skill, which is a good thing. If you don't find fun in risking money to play, then don't risk the money, simple as that. I personally couldn't care less about things like icons, profiles, colors, etc. You're also not really risking anything of value to win those, so there's no real feeling of 'danger' involved that can make it a lot more exciting. So no, those don't work as well as money.
No one was trying to make progaming a career option for everyone with this idea. Its just a way to increase the fun, competitiveness, and skill of the game for people who wish to partake in it. Its not mixing Starcraft with poker, its taking an underlying concept that online poker sites developed that has virtually *nothing* to do with poker. The underlying concept is this: provide people a way to easily find X other people to play with, hold their money, and dole it out fairly to the winners at the end. That concept could be for anything remotely competitive, from rock-paper-scissors to... Starcraft (  ). So yes, poker sites have perfected it, but its not an idea native only to poker.
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is awesome32263 Posts
You missed my last post i already answer lots of the things you say.
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Just gonna throw it out there that pretty much every competitive community I've been a part of or heard of has had pay-to-play tournaments and people don't mind.
90% of the people I've met and played against at fighting game tournaments know they have no chance, or think they have a chance and then play some casuals and realize they have no chance, and they shell out $5-10 and enter anyways.
And the people who don't show up to tournaments because they don't think they're good enough? I've met plenty of those kinds of guys, too, and they won't show up for free tournaments either.
I seriously doubt that people are going to make a living playing in $5 online tournaments... especially since the payout structure is unlikely to be crazy generous and there's lots of transaction fees and such; it'd just a nice incentive for people to take it to the next level, but if people were REALLY into making money online they'd be learning how to play poker.
Also the only winner-takes-all tournaments with entry fees I've ever seen were all like 5-6 people and the winner-takes-all payout was decided by everybody there. Tournaments typically either charge a venue fee or take a percentage of the pot to cover costs; since there's probably no "venue fee" for an online tournament, but Blizzard needs some good reason to run this, the payout would probably be around 60% of the pot, at best. If you win a 16 man $5 entry tournament, you make something ~$56 from the pot, -$5 for entry and then transaction fees from PayPal or whatever and you're really only making like $40 AT BEST, which doesn't even cover the cost of the CD.
Sure, people will hack but if people report that crap and there's harsh penalties for it, it shouldn't be too hard to crack down on it.
Personally I like the idea of being able to enter a tournament of random players where I know most of the players aren't going to be 14 year olds.
-edit-
Blizzard can keep track of PayPal accounts and ban hackers who pay/get paid through those accounts? I dunno, not a perfect system but it's something. That way you can skip the whole "what if someone hacks and wins enough to just keep buying more copies of SC2" which is a lot of work for someone who obviously isn't into doing a lot of work.
And there shouldn't be big prizes for automated tournaments anyhow, again it's just an incentive to play and it adds an element of risk.
Big prizes should be left to community sites, sponsors, whatever, sure.
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On June 29 2008 10:54 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2008 07:20 FrozenArbiter wrote:It's like that. Explain why it isn't?
A D- player wants to play in a sit n' go tournament, he pays 10$ and he's in.
A B+ player who is 14 and can't get a credit card because his parent don't let him wants in, he has to win another free tournament (which will probably get more filled than the ones with admission fee) to be able to play.
No, you said: What you are saying would be like an iccup tourney were only B+ players can't enter. But hey, if you are D- and want to pay 10$, we will let you in. I'm assuming can't enter = can enter since otherwise it doesn't make sense. The tournament is open to anyone who wants to pay, it doesn't matter what skill level. Saying this is bad is as ridiculous as saying a tournament that's only open to B+ or C+ is bad. If the 14 year old with no credit card wants to play he can either go play in some of the free ones and try to qualify or get someone to pay for him. Also, have you ever considered that maybe it's not such a bad thing to prevent/make it a little bit harder for a 14 year old to blow through a bunch of money? Somehow all the 14 year olds in the world manage to get their parents to pay for their WoW subscriptions tho so I don't see a big issue. I just don't see the point of adding money in the middle? You can give players other kind of stuff, from "fame" in the battle.net site (like Blizzard did back when Starcraft didn't have replays) or icons and things on battle.net (like they do in W3). Hey, even give them maybe a bigger profile? colors in nickname? Whatever. It works. Add that to the free tournaments then, there'll no doubt be more of these anyway. Many more probably. Money means incentive. Incentive means competition and growth, if there's enough growth a viable way for the semi-pros to make some sort of living might arise. I see this as good. But beyond all of that, playing for money is fun. That plain and simple. Playing to win a prize is fucking awesome. If you want to make a profession out of Starcraft then get good and go play tourneys, you can travel in between. I don't get why people want to mix poker with Starcraft :S. Starcraft its not made for everyone to win money in. Of course a reduced number of people can, progamers. And I don't get why you don't want to mix the two, as it doesn't affect you :C If you don't want to play in the $ tournaments then don't, but why stop others from doing so? I obviously play poker and maybe I've been doing that for too long now because some of the objections in this thread are completely alien to me in their logic. Btw I apoligize if I come off rude anywhere, I'm extremely irritable today -.- Yeah I phrased the first quote badly, I didn't mean that. I don't mean to sound insulting but I just don't see the incentive it generates, or what good things can come from it. There's little good things from it and LOTS of problems imo. You got TLTour for example. TLTour did good, people gave good feedback about it. But having money sit n go tournaments incorporated to battle.net is a totally different thing. First of all you need an active anti-hack team to check all the replays and make a fair gaming environment. Of course this people have to be from Blizzard, since Blizzard is running the whole thing. Will Blizzard pay an anti-hack team to keep tournaments clean? The current state of hacking on battle.net tells otherwise. Once money is put in between hackers are going to have much more incentive to ruin this for you too. Also if the winner takes the money, one the tournament is done, if the winner is a hacker he can just 'run away' with his money and it will worth for him even if they ban his cdkey (50$ game or much less as you can see from BW today vs money from a 16 tournament. 16 x 10$ = 160$ to make an example. Second you need to get this whole thing diagrammed, which maps can be played? the need a Blizz symbol, since maps can be abused too (hi lastshadow). What about methods to pay for it? You will be stuck with paypal? Third: continuity. TLTour was great but it was only a couple of times and not continuously. Do you think you can get people to pay 15$ or 10$ all day to keep this tournaments filled? The current BW player base is huge, but take away all umsers, fastest players, moneymaps players. You get like the number of Iccup players or PGTour or whatever that are willing to play competitive. Now ask how many of those can or are willing to pay daily or weekly for money tournaments? I don't see money tournaments getting filled to play like "Sit n go" style. Fourth: divides the player base. Some people get into tournaments for fun because they are free. Even though they are going to lose, they play because they get the chance to play with someone better or because its fun. Check the BW section, every weekend it gets new threads of new tournaments being announced here. If you divide the player base you are taking that away from those players, and divide the community of [UMS - Money - competitive] into [UMS - money - competitive - more competitive]. I think the problems are way bigger than the good things that can come from it (make some extra money from playing a game). If the game is good and people like it, you will get good players playing each anyway. Money prize tournaments will be held up anyway and with bigger cash prizes. You will get replays of good players playing each other (or vods) too. I think its better to leave this to community sites + sponsors.
You list these 4 problems like they're some sort of huge, insurmountable problem. They're actually pretty trivial.
1)Yes hire an anti-hack team, using the money they get from rake. Don't pay out the money until the team has checked the game replays.
2)That same team could (gasp) pick out the maps to be used. And they could set up a paypal account, or use one of the other 1000 sites that poker sites use.
3)I'm sure there will be a lot more SC2 players than there are BW players now. And if you can't do it "sit n go" style just arrange it so it's like 1 per week or whatever.
4)The money tournaments would still have the same rules as the non money tournaments, it's just that the players would be a little better. Tournaments are already divided like that naturally, some are tougher than others.
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EPT
