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On October 16 2017 07:14 Holyflare wrote: I also don't know if you know this but I most assuredly claimed I'm not a vt at the start of the game
I remember that very clearly.
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ruxxar instead of doing some bull shit plays like you normally do how about you talk to me
If Damerion had no time to play and he didn't read the thread when he returned then why was oatsmaster his preferred lynch target when he previously said oatsmaster was TOWN for being aggressive?
If he had no time why would he simply just not save himself? That's the biggest unanswered question. He simply said "votes were moving and I had no time" but that doesn't explain for a single second why he didn't try and stay alive.
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Why does he think Onegu is mafia but didn't vote to save his partner conversion? Why doesn't that play into his read in the slightest? His entire read on Onegu is based on CONVERSION'S filter instead of Onegu's filter. If Damerion is town why on earth would he ever think that someone that scum read him and DIDN'T vote him to save his partner would be mafia? That's entirely the opposite conclusion anyone in that position should think.
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His entire basis for his reads are determined on conclusion > analysis instead of the townie way of analysis > conclusion. He's writing narratives (which is completely different to what he did last game, might I add) instead of just trying to think of the game as a whole.
He's also stopped doing his game plan this game of PoEing people and then finding scum and has instead just decided to find things that don't make sense.
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His read on Oats did change though, idk why you are are acting like he was hard town reading him.
The medic dodge isnt a rela point, and his oats conversion comnection is at least interesting.
Eh I wont vote for him I think.
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He next goes about and tries to get people off of Conversion by trying to facilitate a Chinese fire drill onto RuxXar, who he has solely focused on at this point. He pushes really hard and all he needs at this point is one more person to come off of Conversion and I am lynched instead of Conversion.
This on its own is thin, and is easily explained away with how tunneled he is on RuxXar at this point in time.
Onegu does his part in the play as well, trying to help push votes off Conversion so that I am lynched or they get enough people to switch to RuxXar and lynch him instead.
...
Which is my one problem with the Onegu scum read, why would he just not vote for me after showing such disdain for me. It is a problem I am trying to work out, perhaps if Conversion flips it makes him look even worse? I do not think that is that valid of a point however.
See how he spends all that time talking about Onegu but then how it's actually completely irrelevant? He builds an entire narrative of Onegu being the mafia diverting people to Ruxxar to save Conversion despite scum reading Damerion and also Damerion being the highest wagon in the game at that point. <--------- Important.
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On October 16 2017 07:31 Damdred wrote: His read on Oats did change though, idk why you are are acting like he was hard town reading him.
The medic dodge isnt a rela point, and his oats conversion comnection is at least interesting.
Eh I wont vote for him I think.
And where does this happen Damdred, pray tell?
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On October 16 2017 07:16 Holyflare wrote: ruxxar instead of doing some bull shit plays like you normally do how about you talk to me
If Damerion had no time to play and he didn't read the thread when he returned then why was oatsmaster his preferred lynch target when he previously said oatsmaster was TOWN for being aggressive?
If he had no time why would he simply just not save himself? That's the biggest unanswered question. He simply said "votes were moving and I had no time" but that doesn't explain for a single second why he didn't try and stay alive.
It doesn't make much sense from either alignment. If he's town he should be voting conversion to save himself. If he's mafia he should be voting conversion to at least get a sliver of town cred for voting mafia.
In the end I found his explanation very unsatisfactory, but he's also a new player who might be evaluating the game differently.
What I do know, is that survival instinct is very high on the list for mafia. You are a huge threat do damerion, and I am very certain that he can not have missed that he was a hairs breadth away from being lynched by you. If not him, then his partners must've observed it. There was also no sign that you werent going for a damerion lynch today.
No sane mafia person with 24 hours to evaluate, would not kill you even at the chance of a medic save.
I do feel as if there's a shell surrounding damerion. A facade if you will, filtering away all emotion. He is as you say "robotic" and very unengaged in the natural game flow. It makes him hard to read, but I don't know if that necessarily makes him mafia.
Conversion as you saw on the other hand was very engaged in the game and was having a flowing conversation with people. So I'm not sure how convinced I am of it being a mafia indicator for damerion. Especially taking into account how I saw him play last game.
We still have 48 hours to figure this out, so let's keep at it.
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On October 16 2017 07:33 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 07:31 Damdred wrote: His read on Oats did change though, idk why you are are acting like he was hard town reading him.
The medic dodge isnt a rela point, and his oats conversion comnection is at least interesting.
Eh I wont vote for him I think. And where does this happen Damdred, pray tell?
In the long Gracky post where I dont like how oats acts either.
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I'll help you in fact. Every mention of Oats in its entirety:
As for my read on Oatsmaster is that he is towny, his catch/pressure on RuxXar seems like it comes from town. It reads as if he is paying attention looking for little details that would make someone scum, and acts on it.
I do not know Oatsmaster scum range obviously but I am confidant that this action would more than likely come from town.
Oatsmaster nonresponse to Grackaroni posts is interesting as well. But its not quite uo to the level I just pointed out.
On October 15 2017 00:57 Damerion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2017 00:51 Conversion wrote:On October 15 2017 00:48 Damerion wrote:Once again hello and like the proverbial Santa Clause I have brought a most interesting gift that I wish the thread to take a stance on and give their thoughts, and gut leanings. Firstly I read the Grackaroni and Oatsmaster exchanges and did not think much on it but as I was checking filters something very interesting popped out on me. The interesting thing is how Grackaroni treats Oatsmaster to start with and how he ends up treating him. On October 14 2017 03:10 Grackaroni wrote:I'm going to give a read that I don't think too many people will agree with but I think Oatsmaster is mafia. In this game he seems less chill compared to Hurricane and I get the sense in a few posts that he's questioning things that look unusual rather than things that I think he would normally find scummy. On October 13 2017 11:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 13 2017 07:59 Fecalfeast wrote: Damdred trying to pocket damerion, ruxxar ignoring oats calling him a liar. Relevant? We shall see. whats the point of this post? On October 13 2017 11:43 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 13 2017 09:10 Damdred wrote:
But seriously pocmeting people is super impkrtant in the long run for survival Can you explain why a townie wants to pocket people to survive? I left links so you can decide for yourself between the first two pages of each game, but it seems to me like he cares more about his image in this game than the other one. (he was town in hurricane.) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/527379-newbie-student-mafia-xxvii?user=Oatsmasterhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/526614-hurricane-shelter-mafia?user=Oatsmaster We first have his original read on Oats, it was novel at the time. He has something original to show the thread and does so, it gains him some surface town credit from several members of the town. On October 14 2017 03:58 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 03:55 ruXxar wrote:On October 14 2017 03:50 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 03:24 Conversion wrote:On October 14 2017 03:10 Grackaroni wrote:I'm going to give a read that I don't think too many people will agree with but I think Oatsmaster is mafia. In this game he seems less chill compared to Hurricane and I get the sense in a few posts that he's questioning things that look unusual rather than things that I think he would normally find scummy. On October 13 2017 11:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 13 2017 07:59 Fecalfeast wrote: Damdred trying to pocket damerion, ruxxar ignoring oats calling him a liar. Relevant? We shall see. whats the point of this post? On October 13 2017 11:43 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 13 2017 09:10 Damdred wrote:
But seriously pocmeting people is super impkrtant in the long run for survival Can you explain why a townie wants to pocket people to survive? I left links so you can decide for yourself between the first two pages of each game, but it seems to me like he cares more about his image in this game than the other one. (he was town in hurricane.) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/527379-newbie-student-mafia-xxvii?user=Oatsmasterhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/526614-hurricane-shelter-mafia?user=Oatsmaster to me he just looks like he pushes his own agenda and doesn't give a shit really http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/526062-names-are-hard-2?user=OatsmasterI'm not seeing what you're seeing, so can you explain how he looks different in the first two games compared to this one? I'm going to guess that Oats is town in that game you linked and check before I post. Yeah ok HF/Damdred/Onegu were scum but obviously town is always a more likely guess since more people roll town. I do think he looks pretty different in both of those games in the way that he accuses people. In those 2 he throws out accusations without much fanfare. Hurricane: On September 29 2017 11:51 Oatsmaster wrote:On September 29 2017 11:23 Damerion wrote: Hello, I am glad to be here playing with you fine people. Damdred speaks highly of everyone here, and I hope the game is enjoyable.
I have two things that came to mind when I read what little of the game there is.
1) Grackaroni opening post, to put it bluntly is trash. At the same time he says nothing of value and tries to buddy fecalfeast (I assume) into making an alliance when it is impossible for him to know alignments.
Unless he is mafia, which associative read incoming means FecalFeast is more likely town for the way Grackaroni interacted with him.
2) I have come up with a pretty simple plan how to approach d1.
Step one: The marksman (vig), should claim as soon as town agrees with this plan (which they should).
Step two: We should use this power as a second lynch and have a vote in thread to direct the power.
Step three: Mafia is more than likely forced into a situation where they must let the Vigilante shoot and kill him, or roleblock him. The simplest solution is to put the watcher on the Vigilante N1.
Step Four: The medic should be off doing medic things more than likely on another target, if the mafia send the godfather and kill the Vigilante nothing is lost, if they roleblock him we instantly have a one and one trade.
Step Five: I assume medic cannot protect multiple nights in a row, therefore if the Vigilante survives the medic should protect him here and the Watcher should look elsewhere.
This plan gives us the most information that we can control and boxes the mafia into only a few moves they can make early in the game.
I think we should follow this plan. mafia On September 29 2017 15:20 Oatsmaster wrote:On September 29 2017 12:21 Damerion wrote: I am unsure why you have me as mafia Oatsmaster, could you expound on why you think that?
Vivax why is directing blues in that way not pro-town? We would gain a good bit of information by controlling multiple lynches or kp, and have confirmed town for multiple days leading the town towards a strong circle.
mainly because having a second lynch really doesnt matter. On September 29 2017 16:37 Oatsmaster wrote: filter links plz
i think its pretty scumy On September 30 2017 01:23 Oatsmaster wrote:On September 29 2017 22:48 Vivax wrote: I really have no idea what is wrong with my statement. It didn't bother me much when Oats pointed it out since his read on me is always shit, but to both of you it should be obvious that it simply means claiming afk = claiming scum and if two mafias claimed scum already, then the game will be too easy and boring.
With HF there's a decent chance he actually just said it cause he did it as mafia just last game and he thinks it's funny to mess with the reads on him. But for Koshi I see no such excuse. lol Names are Hard 2: On August 26 2017 02:18 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 25 2017 05:47 Tumblewood wrote:On August 25 2017 05:44 Koshi wrote: I am pretty unhappy TW, LS and Damdred left the thread. nope i'm still here i just haven't cared enough to say anything else mafia On August 25 2017 06:21 geript wrote:On August 25 2017 06:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: geript are you town? I'm the towniest of all. Also, I'm pretty sure that Koshi is mafia. His post towards you and asking about Damdred's townread is pretty out of place. As Town, you love to lynch stupid; it's like your kryptonite. But as mafia you have much less of a hardon for stupid from what I've seen and just push 85% bullshit. Koshi not getting this after the last two games is pretty odd; especially since Tina brought it up in generic and Koshi was bussing her at various points. mafia geript doesnt actually care about getting koshi lynched. He just wants to sidetrack town. On August 26 2017 02:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 25 2017 06:10 LightningStrike wrote: I was giving rayn his time to talk to Skynx while watching Impractical Jokers. Skynx being a bit combative towards rayn hmm. Is this normal behavior from Skynx as either alignment for those who got good amount of experience playing with him? Useless question. On August 25 2017 08:37 LightningStrike wrote:On August 25 2017 08:06 geript wrote:On August 25 2017 07:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] I am not sure if i believe this so this is a reminder to myself to check something on this tomorrow. It's not exactly true... From Generic: On July 14 2017 03:12 geript wrote: I remember TW when he was a newbie. I remember his not being boring/dull/. Like he had some good observations (wrong but good) then. His scum game IIRC was much lower activity and struggled to post almost anything. He's likely a good lynch too. The thing is that during the last abortion of a game, when I was reading TW (in MS Paint Judge mafia) I was comparing him to older games to get can idea of any other meta reads I could use to push him. It's something that I noticed from his town play and something that HF picked up and agreed with in the game. On August 25 2017 06:21 Koshi wrote: [quote] If you want to make 20 posts. It is better that you explain everything you claim. The bolded is completely unexplained and gives us nothing. LS is easy to read. I don't see why it is weird and I townread Damdred and Vivax for seeing it and calling it early. It generates discussion and easy townreads make mafia nervous. Mafia doesn't like easy townreads you see. Then they make comments like you just did. A few things here: 1. Only bad mafia hate early townreads. Like it's often quite easy to call someone town, move them into a situation where they look bad, rescind the townread and push them for lynch. I am not bad mafia. 2. LS in at least 1 game (though as far as I remembered multiple games) as scum has mimicked his "town puppy" persona to get townread and survived until endgame on it. Passing around a bad read is on the other hand makes it easy for scum to blend in. Hell, last game I basically literally just took what town was already thinking, repackaged it into nicer, newer, and better thinking and sold it as my own. On August 25 2017 06:55 Koshi wrote: I dislike he scumreads me. Especially because he scumreads me because I don't meta townread rayn for a reason I would not meta read rayn town for. On August 25 2017 07:21 Koshi wrote: For the record. I recognize the points made against Skynx. I do not know if it makes him mafia. I think there is a chance still that he is town that made a very bad post.
geript on the other hand came in with a typical lazy mafia post. As town something in the thread would have triggered him, something about Koshi, rayn, HF or Vivax. Even Damdred maybe. But because he is mafia and lazy nothing really did, so he made an easy TW comment because he is "helping". When rayn confronted him he had to make something up and called rayn town and in the same breath called Koshi mafia because he isn't calling rayn town.
I do not believe town!geript makes that koshi read only after surrendering a town!rayn read. I think town!geript would have made that Koshi read while catching up and would have posted that instead of the TW town read.
I do believe mafia geript played lazy and showed face.
This is my read. Accept it. Who's getting mad about early townreads now Koshi? Koshi is scumreading me for scumreading him for not townreading rayn. Silliness aside. Hold with me, it's a bit circuitous but it's here. I've made it quite obvious on numerous occasions that I fucking hate playing scum when HF is town; as such, when I'm scum I basically become his thread bitch because I don't know how else to buy time in order to gain control of the thread until I get to NK HF. But the same is not true of Rayn. I know how to fuck with Rayn's head as mafia; I know what he looks at and looks for and can throw out a hook to get him super distracted. 1. As mafia, I gain nothing by giving Rayn an early townread and actually surrender thread control; which btw, I don't do as mafia (except for HF or maybe Marv but Marv because he's a fucking sexy beast). So his argument is not only bad, it's also incorrect. Vivax I haven't really played with in a while and I haven't had a correct read on him for a long time. Damdred I read town for how he reads people with "Damdred" reads and how he shows specific lines of thinking as town that he doesn't as scum. HF I read based on what he's pushing and why he's pushing; it's kinda a feels read but mostly based on him pushing "good things." Rayn I read based on what he's pushing and how he pushes; he likes to lynch bad as town and picks up on completely different things as mafia (example the Judge game where almost every time he came in the thread he pushed stupid shit that was bad). 2. When I make a read on Rayn for doing town!Rayn things, it's me being scum. When I don't comment on things about Vivax, HF, or Damdred because I'm either lacking any way to accurately read them (Vivax), I haven't seen them do things to read them town yet (Damdred), or I'm getting mixed vibes from (HF), then I'm scum. When I post about Koshi, I'm both scum for something not triggering me to post something about him AND scum for posting what I posted. Like, that's a pretty fucking weird argument for Koshi to be making at the same time; he's usually a bit more lazy as scum, and arguing both sides of the coin in the same post is pretty fucking weird for Town!Koshi to do. 3. Come at me bro 3/20 Yes I know I fooled people in the past in 2 of my scum games but Damdred usually gets me right except a few times when he either almost gets me mislynched or actually got me lynched on shannies. Damdred helped me a bit on my scum game I will tell you that as he was in a scum team with me where we almost won had it not been for sicklucker not giving a shit for a couple of cells (Cell Millionaire). Trust Damdred's read on me. Its interesting(scummy) how he says "trust" damdred's read when he doesnt know damdred's alignment. Or does he??? On August 25 2017 08:39 LightningStrike wrote: Side note I think Damdred could be town this game as well as rayn and Koshi just need them to stop fighting each other. Also this is a pretty big "side" note that LS just brushes under. He isnt trying to find mafia, hes just going with the status quo and waiting for things to happen. On August 26 2017 02:25 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 25 2017 18:21 Vivax wrote:On August 25 2017 18:12 Holyflare wrote:On August 25 2017 17:58 Vivax wrote: And geript ACTUALLY posted a townie seal, why is he even up for discussion. 100 % confirmed town. No, 90% for adding a lot of text I will read later. But it really wasn't necessary with the seal. Has he ever posted it before? No idea but the idea is so abstruse to think of as mafia that I have to take it at face value. Uneccesary town read without an alternative. possible mafia. In this game I get the sense that he's putting on more of a show of pressuring people and looking useful. I don't see it grack. His tone is no different this game than from those games you quoted. Is your main issue that he doesn't use the word "Mafia" when calling out people? Because I think that is a weak argument when the message is still delivered with the same intention, tone and intensity. Well you're either going to see it or you won't. I do think there is a noticeable difference in Oats' posting and it's not just that he didn't say mafia like he did in those other two games. I have choosen to show the larger quote of the conversation between RuxXar and Grackaroni. Grackaroni is sure about his read on Oatsmaster and tries to convince based off of past tonal differences and approach to the game. At this point I do not see anything really bad about the approach. On October 14 2017 06:40 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 06:38 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 14 2017 04:28 Grackaroni wrote:Happykrogan is almost certainly town. RuXxar is also the only player silly enough to think that drawing suspicion to himself would be a good town plan. + Show Spoiler +On October 14 2017 03:36 ruXxar wrote: Then there's the passive way, where you make yourself vulnerable and allow people to push you. This requires you to make yourself a target that people want to engage with, by performing actions that people find dubious.
Have you seen any of ruxxs mafia games? I think I've skimmed some of them from when I played with him as town but I don't think I've ever seen him play mafia. On October 14 2017 08:57 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 08:46 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 14 2017 08:36 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 08:05 Conversion wrote:On October 14 2017 08:01 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 14 2017 06:40 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 06:38 Oatsmaster wrote: [quote] Have you seen any of ruxxs mafia games? I think I've skimmed some of them from when I played with him as town but I don't think I've ever seen him play mafia. so why do you use a meta read to townread someone when you have no idea how they would play as mafia??? TMI??!? Grack wasn’t metareading ruxxar as town there, he was jut statig ruxxar was the only one silly enough to vouch drawing suspicion as a good town play. Not really seeing where you saw him draw a metaread conclusion This. I wasn't calling him town in that post. I was saying that only he could possibly think that doing that would be a good idea. but "good town plan" implies that you think hes town. Like come on dude. Stop waffling. Otherwise it would be "xx scum plan". I don't know why I always have to have these arguments with you when they always revolve around you not being able to understand a post. Here's what he said: + Show Spoiler +"To me there's two ways to solve the game.
There's the active way, were you make reads, pressure and push people. This is what people refer to when they say "Solving the game". Aka what oats is doing.
Then there's the passive way, where you make yourself vulnerable and allow people to push you. This requires you to make yourself a target that people want to engage with, by performing actions that people find dubious."
I said that he would be the only one who could possibly think that this would be pro-town because it's a silly way to play and not pro-town. On October 14 2017 09:27 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 09:15 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 14 2017 08:57 Grackaroni wrote:
I said that he would be the only one who could possibly think that this would be pro-town because it's a silly way to play and not pro-town.
but if hes mafia he doesnt think its protown and therefore you think hes town because you believe that he thinks he is doing something protown It could be that he's town and think it's smart town play or he could be mafia and still think that it's pro-town or maybe he just got a lot of attention as mafia and thinks that is a passable excuse. I think no matter what he thinks it's a reasonable sentence, but I wasn't really trying to place any particular inference onto the post. On October 14 2017 15:41 Grackaroni wrote: Oats do you like your Ruxxar vote? Now, his approach and tone towards Oatsmaster has completely changed. He is speaking to him and with him as if he is town and is trying to figure out common ground that they can work on. Grackaroni vote is still on Oatsmaster, he has tried to convince people that Oatsmaster is scum. But the approach he takes towards him does not make sense for someone with a scum read on said person. Oatsmaster nonresponse to Grackaroni posts is interesting as well. But its not quite uo to the level I just pointed out. Oats also ignored my question when I asked him what he thought of the Grack meta read on him being mafia, but idk man he just seems to be doing his own thing The meat of the post was about how Grackaroni acted and treated Oatsmaster. I will admit it is possible a light bus this early is possible, but I will make a decision on that at a later date. Right now thoughts about Grackaroni would be appreciated as I see him coming more from scum than town in his aplroach at the moment.
On October 15 2017 00:57 Damerion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2017 00:51 Conversion wrote:On October 15 2017 00:48 Damerion wrote:Once again hello and like the proverbial Santa Clause I have brought a most interesting gift that I wish the thread to take a stance on and give their thoughts, and gut leanings. Firstly I read the Grackaroni and Oatsmaster exchanges and did not think much on it but as I was checking filters something very interesting popped out on me. The interesting thing is how Grackaroni treats Oatsmaster to start with and how he ends up treating him. On October 14 2017 03:10 Grackaroni wrote:I'm going to give a read that I don't think too many people will agree with but I think Oatsmaster is mafia. In this game he seems less chill compared to Hurricane and I get the sense in a few posts that he's questioning things that look unusual rather than things that I think he would normally find scummy. On October 13 2017 11:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 13 2017 07:59 Fecalfeast wrote: Damdred trying to pocket damerion, ruxxar ignoring oats calling him a liar. Relevant? We shall see. whats the point of this post? On October 13 2017 11:43 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 13 2017 09:10 Damdred wrote:
But seriously pocmeting people is super impkrtant in the long run for survival Can you explain why a townie wants to pocket people to survive? I left links so you can decide for yourself between the first two pages of each game, but it seems to me like he cares more about his image in this game than the other one. (he was town in hurricane.) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/527379-newbie-student-mafia-xxvii?user=Oatsmasterhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/526614-hurricane-shelter-mafia?user=Oatsmaster We first have his original read on Oats, it was novel at the time. He has something original to show the thread and does so, it gains him some surface town credit from several members of the town. On October 14 2017 03:58 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 03:55 ruXxar wrote:On October 14 2017 03:50 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 03:24 Conversion wrote:On October 14 2017 03:10 Grackaroni wrote:I'm going to give a read that I don't think too many people will agree with but I think Oatsmaster is mafia. In this game he seems less chill compared to Hurricane and I get the sense in a few posts that he's questioning things that look unusual rather than things that I think he would normally find scummy. On October 13 2017 11:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 13 2017 07:59 Fecalfeast wrote: Damdred trying to pocket damerion, ruxxar ignoring oats calling him a liar. Relevant? We shall see. whats the point of this post? On October 13 2017 11:43 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 13 2017 09:10 Damdred wrote:
But seriously pocmeting people is super impkrtant in the long run for survival Can you explain why a townie wants to pocket people to survive? I left links so you can decide for yourself between the first two pages of each game, but it seems to me like he cares more about his image in this game than the other one. (he was town in hurricane.) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/527379-newbie-student-mafia-xxvii?user=Oatsmasterhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/526614-hurricane-shelter-mafia?user=Oatsmaster to me he just looks like he pushes his own agenda and doesn't give a shit really http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/526062-names-are-hard-2?user=OatsmasterI'm not seeing what you're seeing, so can you explain how he looks different in the first two games compared to this one? I'm going to guess that Oats is town in that game you linked and check before I post. Yeah ok HF/Damdred/Onegu were scum but obviously town is always a more likely guess since more people roll town. I do think he looks pretty different in both of those games in the way that he accuses people. In those 2 he throws out accusations without much fanfare. Hurricane: On September 29 2017 11:51 Oatsmaster wrote:On September 29 2017 11:23 Damerion wrote: Hello, I am glad to be here playing with you fine people. Damdred speaks highly of everyone here, and I hope the game is enjoyable.
I have two things that came to mind when I read what little of the game there is.
1) Grackaroni opening post, to put it bluntly is trash. At the same time he says nothing of value and tries to buddy fecalfeast (I assume) into making an alliance when it is impossible for him to know alignments.
Unless he is mafia, which associative read incoming means FecalFeast is more likely town for the way Grackaroni interacted with him.
2) I have come up with a pretty simple plan how to approach d1.
Step one: The marksman (vig), should claim as soon as town agrees with this plan (which they should).
Step two: We should use this power as a second lynch and have a vote in thread to direct the power.
Step three: Mafia is more than likely forced into a situation where they must let the Vigilante shoot and kill him, or roleblock him. The simplest solution is to put the watcher on the Vigilante N1.
Step Four: The medic should be off doing medic things more than likely on another target, if the mafia send the godfather and kill the Vigilante nothing is lost, if they roleblock him we instantly have a one and one trade.
Step Five: I assume medic cannot protect multiple nights in a row, therefore if the Vigilante survives the medic should protect him here and the Watcher should look elsewhere.
This plan gives us the most information that we can control and boxes the mafia into only a few moves they can make early in the game.
I think we should follow this plan. mafia On September 29 2017 15:20 Oatsmaster wrote:On September 29 2017 12:21 Damerion wrote: I am unsure why you have me as mafia Oatsmaster, could you expound on why you think that?
Vivax why is directing blues in that way not pro-town? We would gain a good bit of information by controlling multiple lynches or kp, and have confirmed town for multiple days leading the town towards a strong circle.
mainly because having a second lynch really doesnt matter. On September 29 2017 16:37 Oatsmaster wrote: filter links plz
i think its pretty scumy On September 30 2017 01:23 Oatsmaster wrote:On September 29 2017 22:48 Vivax wrote: I really have no idea what is wrong with my statement. It didn't bother me much when Oats pointed it out since his read on me is always shit, but to both of you it should be obvious that it simply means claiming afk = claiming scum and if two mafias claimed scum already, then the game will be too easy and boring.
With HF there's a decent chance he actually just said it cause he did it as mafia just last game and he thinks it's funny to mess with the reads on him. But for Koshi I see no such excuse. lol Names are Hard 2: On August 26 2017 02:18 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 25 2017 05:47 Tumblewood wrote:On August 25 2017 05:44 Koshi wrote: I am pretty unhappy TW, LS and Damdred left the thread. nope i'm still here i just haven't cared enough to say anything else mafia On August 25 2017 06:21 geript wrote:On August 25 2017 06:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: geript are you town? I'm the towniest of all. Also, I'm pretty sure that Koshi is mafia. His post towards you and asking about Damdred's townread is pretty out of place. As Town, you love to lynch stupid; it's like your kryptonite. But as mafia you have much less of a hardon for stupid from what I've seen and just push 85% bullshit. Koshi not getting this after the last two games is pretty odd; especially since Tina brought it up in generic and Koshi was bussing her at various points. mafia geript doesnt actually care about getting koshi lynched. He just wants to sidetrack town. On August 26 2017 02:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 25 2017 06:10 LightningStrike wrote: I was giving rayn his time to talk to Skynx while watching Impractical Jokers. Skynx being a bit combative towards rayn hmm. Is this normal behavior from Skynx as either alignment for those who got good amount of experience playing with him? Useless question. On August 25 2017 08:37 LightningStrike wrote:On August 25 2017 08:06 geript wrote:On August 25 2017 07:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] I am not sure if i believe this so this is a reminder to myself to check something on this tomorrow. It's not exactly true... From Generic: On July 14 2017 03:12 geript wrote: I remember TW when he was a newbie. I remember his not being boring/dull/. Like he had some good observations (wrong but good) then. His scum game IIRC was much lower activity and struggled to post almost anything. He's likely a good lynch too. The thing is that during the last abortion of a game, when I was reading TW (in MS Paint Judge mafia) I was comparing him to older games to get can idea of any other meta reads I could use to push him. It's something that I noticed from his town play and something that HF picked up and agreed with in the game. On August 25 2017 06:21 Koshi wrote: [quote] If you want to make 20 posts. It is better that you explain everything you claim. The bolded is completely unexplained and gives us nothing. LS is easy to read. I don't see why it is weird and I townread Damdred and Vivax for seeing it and calling it early. It generates discussion and easy townreads make mafia nervous. Mafia doesn't like easy townreads you see. Then they make comments like you just did. A few things here: 1. Only bad mafia hate early townreads. Like it's often quite easy to call someone town, move them into a situation where they look bad, rescind the townread and push them for lynch. I am not bad mafia. 2. LS in at least 1 game (though as far as I remembered multiple games) as scum has mimicked his "town puppy" persona to get townread and survived until endgame on it. Passing around a bad read is on the other hand makes it easy for scum to blend in. Hell, last game I basically literally just took what town was already thinking, repackaged it into nicer, newer, and better thinking and sold it as my own. On August 25 2017 06:55 Koshi wrote: I dislike he scumreads me. Especially because he scumreads me because I don't meta townread rayn for a reason I would not meta read rayn town for. On August 25 2017 07:21 Koshi wrote: For the record. I recognize the points made against Skynx. I do not know if it makes him mafia. I think there is a chance still that he is town that made a very bad post.
geript on the other hand came in with a typical lazy mafia post. As town something in the thread would have triggered him, something about Koshi, rayn, HF or Vivax. Even Damdred maybe. But because he is mafia and lazy nothing really did, so he made an easy TW comment because he is "helping". When rayn confronted him he had to make something up and called rayn town and in the same breath called Koshi mafia because he isn't calling rayn town.
I do not believe town!geript makes that koshi read only after surrendering a town!rayn read. I think town!geript would have made that Koshi read while catching up and would have posted that instead of the TW town read.
I do believe mafia geript played lazy and showed face.
This is my read. Accept it. Who's getting mad about early townreads now Koshi? Koshi is scumreading me for scumreading him for not townreading rayn. Silliness aside. Hold with me, it's a bit circuitous but it's here. I've made it quite obvious on numerous occasions that I fucking hate playing scum when HF is town; as such, when I'm scum I basically become his thread bitch because I don't know how else to buy time in order to gain control of the thread until I get to NK HF. But the same is not true of Rayn. I know how to fuck with Rayn's head as mafia; I know what he looks at and looks for and can throw out a hook to get him super distracted. 1. As mafia, I gain nothing by giving Rayn an early townread and actually surrender thread control; which btw, I don't do as mafia (except for HF or maybe Marv but Marv because he's a fucking sexy beast). So his argument is not only bad, it's also incorrect. Vivax I haven't really played with in a while and I haven't had a correct read on him for a long time. Damdred I read town for how he reads people with "Damdred" reads and how he shows specific lines of thinking as town that he doesn't as scum. HF I read based on what he's pushing and why he's pushing; it's kinda a feels read but mostly based on him pushing "good things." Rayn I read based on what he's pushing and how he pushes; he likes to lynch bad as town and picks up on completely different things as mafia (example the Judge game where almost every time he came in the thread he pushed stupid shit that was bad). 2. When I make a read on Rayn for doing town!Rayn things, it's me being scum. When I don't comment on things about Vivax, HF, or Damdred because I'm either lacking any way to accurately read them (Vivax), I haven't seen them do things to read them town yet (Damdred), or I'm getting mixed vibes from (HF), then I'm scum. When I post about Koshi, I'm both scum for something not triggering me to post something about him AND scum for posting what I posted. Like, that's a pretty fucking weird argument for Koshi to be making at the same time; he's usually a bit more lazy as scum, and arguing both sides of the coin in the same post is pretty fucking weird for Town!Koshi to do. 3. Come at me bro 3/20 Yes I know I fooled people in the past in 2 of my scum games but Damdred usually gets me right except a few times when he either almost gets me mislynched or actually got me lynched on shannies. Damdred helped me a bit on my scum game I will tell you that as he was in a scum team with me where we almost won had it not been for sicklucker not giving a shit for a couple of cells (Cell Millionaire). Trust Damdred's read on me. Its interesting(scummy) how he says "trust" damdred's read when he doesnt know damdred's alignment. Or does he??? On August 25 2017 08:39 LightningStrike wrote: Side note I think Damdred could be town this game as well as rayn and Koshi just need them to stop fighting each other. Also this is a pretty big "side" note that LS just brushes under. He isnt trying to find mafia, hes just going with the status quo and waiting for things to happen. On August 26 2017 02:25 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 25 2017 18:21 Vivax wrote:On August 25 2017 18:12 Holyflare wrote:On August 25 2017 17:58 Vivax wrote: And geript ACTUALLY posted a townie seal, why is he even up for discussion. 100 % confirmed town. No, 90% for adding a lot of text I will read later. But it really wasn't necessary with the seal. Has he ever posted it before? No idea but the idea is so abstruse to think of as mafia that I have to take it at face value. Uneccesary town read without an alternative. possible mafia. In this game I get the sense that he's putting on more of a show of pressuring people and looking useful. I don't see it grack. His tone is no different this game than from those games you quoted. Is your main issue that he doesn't use the word "Mafia" when calling out people? Because I think that is a weak argument when the message is still delivered with the same intention, tone and intensity. Well you're either going to see it or you won't. I do think there is a noticeable difference in Oats' posting and it's not just that he didn't say mafia like he did in those other two games. I have choosen to show the larger quote of the conversation between RuxXar and Grackaroni. Grackaroni is sure about his read on Oatsmaster and tries to convince based off of past tonal differences and approach to the game. At this point I do not see anything really bad about the approach. On October 14 2017 06:40 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 06:38 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 14 2017 04:28 Grackaroni wrote:Happykrogan is almost certainly town. RuXxar is also the only player silly enough to think that drawing suspicion to himself would be a good town plan. + Show Spoiler +On October 14 2017 03:36 ruXxar wrote: Then there's the passive way, where you make yourself vulnerable and allow people to push you. This requires you to make yourself a target that people want to engage with, by performing actions that people find dubious.
Have you seen any of ruxxs mafia games? I think I've skimmed some of them from when I played with him as town but I don't think I've ever seen him play mafia. On October 14 2017 08:57 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 08:46 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 14 2017 08:36 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 08:05 Conversion wrote:On October 14 2017 08:01 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 14 2017 06:40 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 06:38 Oatsmaster wrote: [quote] Have you seen any of ruxxs mafia games? I think I've skimmed some of them from when I played with him as town but I don't think I've ever seen him play mafia. so why do you use a meta read to townread someone when you have no idea how they would play as mafia??? TMI??!? Grack wasn’t metareading ruxxar as town there, he was jut statig ruxxar was the only one silly enough to vouch drawing suspicion as a good town play. Not really seeing where you saw him draw a metaread conclusion This. I wasn't calling him town in that post. I was saying that only he could possibly think that doing that would be a good idea. but "good town plan" implies that you think hes town. Like come on dude. Stop waffling. Otherwise it would be "xx scum plan". I don't know why I always have to have these arguments with you when they always revolve around you not being able to understand a post. Here's what he said: + Show Spoiler +"To me there's two ways to solve the game.
There's the active way, were you make reads, pressure and push people. This is what people refer to when they say "Solving the game". Aka what oats is doing.
Then there's the passive way, where you make yourself vulnerable and allow people to push you. This requires you to make yourself a target that people want to engage with, by performing actions that people find dubious."
I said that he would be the only one who could possibly think that this would be pro-town because it's a silly way to play and not pro-town. On October 14 2017 09:27 Grackaroni wrote:On October 14 2017 09:15 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 14 2017 08:57 Grackaroni wrote:
I said that he would be the only one who could possibly think that this would be pro-town because it's a silly way to play and not pro-town.
but if hes mafia he doesnt think its protown and therefore you think hes town because you believe that he thinks he is doing something protown It could be that he's town and think it's smart town play or he could be mafia and still think that it's pro-town or maybe he just got a lot of attention as mafia and thinks that is a passable excuse. I think no matter what he thinks it's a reasonable sentence, but I wasn't really trying to place any particular inference onto the post. On October 14 2017 15:41 Grackaroni wrote: Oats do you like your Ruxxar vote? Now, his approach and tone towards Oatsmaster has completely changed. He is speaking to him and with him as if he is town and is trying to figure out common ground that they can work on. Grackaroni vote is still on Oatsmaster, he has tried to convince people that Oatsmaster is scum. But the approach he takes towards him does not make sense for someone with a scum read on said person. Oatsmaster nonresponse to Grackaroni posts is interesting as well. But its not quite uo to the level I just pointed out. Oats also ignored my question when I asked him what he thought of the Grack meta read on him being mafia, but idk man he just seems to be doing his own thing The meat of the post was about how Grackaroni acted and treated Oatsmaster. I will admit it is possible a light bus this early is possible, but I will make a decision on that at a later date. Right now thoughts about Grackaroni would be appreciated as I see him coming more from scum than town in his aplroach at the moment.
On October 15 2017 05:55 Damerion wrote: Here I am, I lost track of time and these day phases are very short.
I see conversion and myself are up for lynch. I do not know if I believe that conversion is scum at this point in time.
In fact with how apathetic the thread is I am decently certain it is going to be town v town.
On October 15 2017 05:59 Damerion wrote: Let us do Oatsmaster instead
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Eh whatever, ill just sheeo who i want eod
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On October 16 2017 07:35 Damerion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 07:33 Holyflare wrote:On October 16 2017 07:31 Damdred wrote: His read on Oats did change though, idk why you are are acting like he was hard town reading him.
The medic dodge isnt a rela point, and his oats conversion comnection is at least interesting.
Eh I wont vote for him I think. And where does this happen Damdred, pray tell? In the long Gracky post where I dont like how oats acts either.
But didnt you say the whole point was grack and not oats?
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On October 16 2017 07:35 Damerion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 07:33 Holyflare wrote:On October 16 2017 07:31 Damdred wrote: His read on Oats did change though, idk why you are are acting like he was hard town reading him.
The medic dodge isnt a rela point, and his oats conversion comnection is at least interesting.
Eh I wont vote for him I think. And where does this happen Damdred, pray tell? In the long Gracky post where I dont like how oats acts either.
You mean the posts where he clarifies that the entirety of the post is about Grack being mafia and nothing at all about oats being mafia? Oats ignored Grack's pressure and somehow that makes Oatsmaster mafia?
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god damn your names are so similar
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On October 16 2017 07:34 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 07:16 Holyflare wrote: ruxxar instead of doing some bull shit plays like you normally do how about you talk to me
If Damerion had no time to play and he didn't read the thread when he returned then why was oatsmaster his preferred lynch target when he previously said oatsmaster was TOWN for being aggressive?
If he had no time why would he simply just not save himself? That's the biggest unanswered question. He simply said "votes were moving and I had no time" but that doesn't explain for a single second why he didn't try and stay alive. It doesn't make much sense from either alignment. If he's town he should be voting conversion to save himself. If he's mafia he should be voting conversion to at least get a sliver of town cred for voting mafia. In the end I found his explanation very unsatisfactory, but he's also a new player who might be evaluating the game differently. What I do know, is that survival instinct is very high on the list for mafia. You are a huge threat do damerion, and I am very certain that he can not have missed that he was a hairs breadth away from being lynched by you. If not him, then his partners must've observed it. There was also no sign that you werent going for a damerion lynch today. No sane mafia person with 24 hours to evaluate, would not kill you even at the chance of a medic save. I do feel as if there's a shell surrounding damerion. A facade if you will, filtering away all emotion. He is as you say "robotic" and very unengaged in the natural game flow. It makes him hard to read, but I don't know if that necessarily makes him mafia. Conversion as you saw on the other hand was very engaged in the game and was having a flowing conversation with people. So I'm not sure how convinced I am of it being a mafia indicator for damerion. Especially taking into account how I saw him play last game. We still have 48 hours to figure this out, so let's keep at it.
Damerion is not new.
Damerion just called out 3/3 mafia in the last game.
Does this look like a Damerion that just wrecked an entire mafia team?
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Ok look at when Damerion town reads Oats. It is at the start of the game when he is asked by Mr Lonelyclock what he though of Oats, and the read is based off of series of posts where he questions Ruxxar, which were posts that I also liked from Oats. He gave this read before I pointed out things about Oats' tone. Later on he does seem to walk back his Oats read a bit saying that he found it interesting that Oats ignored my accusation.
I think it's way more likely that his read changed without him updating it as town and believed the lynch to be TvT than that he panicked and voted off wagon because he was too afraid to bus when one of the two of them was very likely to die anyway.
Plus his posts have been way townier in this game than the other one imo. His thought process seems much more in depth whereas the other one I would have scum read him if I wasn't scum. That game it looked like he just chose a scum read and then went through the motions of asking people to kill him every so often rather than actually making an attempt to solve the game.
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Grackaroni is absolutely mafia if Damerion is town.
This is a legitimately solid read.
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On October 16 2017 07:17 Holyflare wrote: Why does he think Onegu is mafia but didn't vote to save his partner conversion? Why doesn't that play into his read in the slightest? His entire read on Onegu is based on CONVERSION'S filter instead of Onegu's filter. If Damerion is town why on earth would he ever think that someone that scum read him and DIDN'T vote him to save his partner would be mafia? That's entirely the opposite conclusion anyone in that position should think.
This is a very good point and I agree.
From damerions point of view, where he should be considering himself town, there's absolutely no reason why he should expect onegu not to vote for him if conversion and onegu are mafia partners.
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On October 16 2017 07:39 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 07:35 Damerion wrote:On October 16 2017 07:33 Holyflare wrote:On October 16 2017 07:31 Damdred wrote: His read on Oats did change though, idk why you are are acting like he was hard town reading him.
The medic dodge isnt a rela point, and his oats conversion comnection is at least interesting.
Eh I wont vote for him I think. And where does this happen Damdred, pray tell? In the long Gracky post where I dont like how oats acts either. But didnt you say the whole point was grack and not oats?
Well, the point of the post was how Grackaroni reacted with Oatsmaster.
But I still thought that Oatsmaster response, lack of response, or just general tone left a lot to be desired of.
I think that Onegu at this point has a better shot at it, but Oatsmaster should not be ignored. He was really afk at lynch time and around that time, but in the past game he was super present during the ongoing procedure and he was trying to facilitate the vote.
Here he just exists and though he pressures he has no real follow through.
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On October 16 2017 07:42 Holyflare wrote: Grackaroni is absolutely mafia if Damerion is town.
This is a legitimately solid read. We'll see how that pans out.
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