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On October 27 2017 08:44 Holyflare wrote:
This game would have been a thousand times easier if people just did the really basic logical things. Onegu spent ten years attacking damerion and didn't save his partner. I'm still throughly confused on that. Damerion didn't vote to save himself and it looked bad to me when it's a mafia that flips. There's probably 100 more instances.
I also still don't even know why conversion got lynched or how he gathered votes despite asking several times why lol. It also baffles me how people call me scummy simply for asking people to state reasons why they wanted someone lynched, in a game of mafia!
Me neither. And it was an all town lynch too.
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On October 27 2017 09:31 ruXxar wrote:
I don’t remember what point I made about grack but, I don’t think hf is ever an easier lynch than grack in that position.
Like, I felt like grack was pretty much an autolynch at that point until I started defending him.
I don’t think mafia in my position ever starts defending grack and starts attacking holyflare.
I did not expect to get holy flare lynched anyway.
yeah i dont think you would play the same way that you did, the problem is that you chose HF and not me. If you chose me i think that you guys had a really good chance
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On October 27 2017 08:44 Holyflare wrote:
This game would have been a thousand times easier if people just did the really basic logical things. Onegu spent ten years attacking damerion and didn't save his partner. I'm still throughly confused on that. Damerion didn't vote to save himself and it looked bad to me when it's a mafia that flips. There's probably 100 more instances.
I also still don't even know why conversion got lynched or how he gathered votes despite asking several times why lol. It also baffles me how people call me scummy simply for asking people to state reasons why they wanted someone lynched, in a game of mafia!
I mean there were multiple people who cased Conversion, including myself. I don't know what you were/are looking for a perfect case considering it was D1 at the time. It's really not that hard to admit that you were wrong multiple times and didn't play a good game.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I never said I wasn't wrong. Just that nobody engaged me at all in debate about why somebody was scum or town other than "he just is" and that's fucking boring.
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I can tell from my own view that I don’t always like engaging with you because you can come off as aggrsssive, hostile and abrasive.
I don’t feel encouraged to engage with you when you have this cocky “I'm obviously right and you guys are all shitters”attitude that’s trying to ram your own opinion down peoples throat.
Personally I think you would have more success engaging people if you used a milder tone and asked more questions.
This is my raw, honest opinion.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I understand that but it's just because I get frustrated that when I post good points on someone and nothing happens and 50% of the game haven't voted it's fucking frustrating and so I revert to berating people to follow me instead because that works 10/10 times.
Which is why I'm surprised you called me mafia (and part of the reason I voted you) for doing what I do as town.
I am a lot nicer to interact with if people actually play the game of mafia and post X, Y, Z points and have a discussion over that and then we reach an agreement or disagreement. Much much more enjoyable. Instead we get someone says X and everyone meanders along afk and there's no rhyme or reason to it other than feels.
Although day 1 was "active" 6 people hadn't voted really close up to deadline so what the fuck is the point? The same happened day 2 or 3 as well where 5 people didn't vote until 30 minutes!!! to deadline. That's 47.5 hours of pissing into the wind.
I was wrong on Damerion, sure, but that's because he did absolutely nothing to interact with me because of habitually not being around and so that enables me to spin my wheels waiting for replies and work myself into a tunnel.
I get that people have things to do and there's "enough" content to read people and make the right decisions but I don't work by reading anymore, I work on interactions which I'm just not getting anymore on this site due to people's real lives getting in the way.
It's just not particularly fun anymore I guess.
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At least you're not getting N1'd everygame anymore 
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On October 27 2017 06:59 Damerion wrote:
One thing I wish I would of said before I died was about Conversions reaction to the Grackaroni case, he immediately defended Oatsmaster just like he did against Grackaroni case.
I was surprised no one picked up on this.
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It's hard to give credibility to damerion when he's barely interacting with the thread.
Despite him being town, he did not play partciularly towny.
HF is absolutely right that a lot of town reads comes from how people interact with the thread, and his reads on damerion are absolutely justified.
It doesn't help to have amazing reads when the way you (don't)interact ruins all your credibility.
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On October 27 2017 16:39 Holyflare wrote:
I understand that but it's just because I get frustrated that when I post good points on someone and nothing happens and 50% of the game haven't voted it's fucking frustrating and so I revert to berating people to follow me instead because that works 10/10 times.
Which is why I'm surprised you called me mafia (and part of the reason I voted you) for doing what I do as town.
I am a lot nicer to interact with if people actually play the game of mafia and post X, Y, Z points and have a discussion over that and then we reach an agreement or disagreement. Much much more enjoyable. Instead we get someone says X and everyone meanders along afk and there's no rhyme or reason to it other than feels.
Although day 1 was "active" 6 people hadn't voted really close up to deadline so what the fuck is the point? The same happened day 2 or 3 as well where 5 people didn't vote until 30 minutes!!! to deadline. That's 47.5 hours of pissing into the wind.
I was wrong on Damerion, sure, but that's because he did absolutely nothing to interact with me because of habitually not being around and so that enables me to spin my wheels waiting for replies and work myself into a tunnel.
I get that people have things to do and there's "enough" content to read people and make the right decisions but I don't work by reading anymore, I work on interactions which I'm just not getting anymore on this site due to people's real lives getting in the way.
It's just not particularly fun anymore I guess.
I know how you feel, and I feel the same way too.
I don't think your damerion read was bad at all. It just looked worse because conversion flipped mafia.
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Also the point where you said that krogan had the best read in the game, but you didn't scum read me was one of the things that made me really think you were mafia.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Those two things are mutually exclusive though :p and also extremely dumb for a mafia to say because it's blatantly too contradictory.
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Right, but it looked like you were goading krogan into starting a push on me when he was sitting on the fence.
In my head the outcomes would either be:
1) He starts a legit train on me and you would jump on later.
2) He would call me scum and later look bad when I flipped town.
3) I would counter push him and I would look bad when he flipped town
It gave you the freedom to start a town vs town conflict without any of the risk.
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On October 27 2017 16:59 ruXxar wrote:
It's hard to give credibility to damerion when he's barely interacting with the thread.
Despite him being town, he did not play partciularly towny.
HF is absolutely right that a lot of town reads comes from how people interact with the thread, and his reads on damerion are absolutely justified.
It doesn't help to have amazing reads when the way you (don't)interact ruins all your credibility.
He was extraordinarily busy to the point it hampered his play. I told him (in the coach qt) to simply bring up his busy schedule so that people could evaluate him with slightly better context. You don't want to keep making RL excuses, but end of day 3 when you told him his excuses were BS....well you obviously didn't know and tbf he never said anything in thread or in pre-game....but that made him tilt and leave the game.
I'm aware that being AFK for 47 hours and then only playing the final hour (regardless of where the votes were) isn't good town optics at all. But I'd have at least given a heads up on that. That really goes for any newbie here - I can't speak for other sites, but TL meta doesn't look too well on this type of inactivity. You need to give advance warning of being AFK and your thought process (tbf he did the latter somewhere but it got buried).
So I'm not saying it was your fault, but I can say with more information I had, that is what happened.
Also Damdred was able to townread him but I think that was due to off-site experience with him.
That being said, also sometimes interacting with the thread is not possible when you are around in thread and others simply are not due to timezones or whatever - I've seen this both in newbies and non-newbies. If one finds themselves in that spot, they need to at least leave questions for their scumreads and post good points/cases to bring different POVs to the thread.
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And WP Oats. I was very sure it was Holyflare final mafia also, frankly the entire obs QT did.
Also didn't notice the Grack modconfirm either.
Damerion and Krogran, it was enjoyable coaching you both. Hope to see you in future games.
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I'm really sorry damerion if I offended you that way.
I hope you understand it was never meant to be a personal attack on you, it was just the way I was reading the situation in the context of a mafia game.
I hope you will continue to stay and play with us as I appreciate you very much.
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@HTS: I'm not sure what ideas you fed into krogans head but he did an excellent job 
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Sometimes I wish I had a coach as well that could snap me out of my dumb tunnel and just re-evaluate everything.
I feel like even if I'm taking a breather, even if I step away. I'm still webbed down in my stupid tunnel.
Here's a couple things I regret not saying:
1) When holyflare was stating that there was absolutely no way it made sense for him to be mafia, I should've asked him that if it wasn't him, and I know it wasn't me, then it has to be one of oats or grack. What do you think of oats and grack?
2) After oats said that holyflare is easier to lynch than grack or oats, I should've asked holyflare what he thought of that opinion. I should've asked the same question to holyflare as I did to oats.
I keep telling myself that next time.. next time I'm going to be totally objective when evaluating people.
But I just keep falling in the same damn tunnel trap.
Someone please smack me in the head next time so I wake up.
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On October 27 2017 16:52 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:59 Damerion wrote:
One thing I wish I would of said before I died was about Conversions reaction to the Grackaroni case, he immediately defended Oatsmaster just like he did against Grackaroni case.
I was surprised no one picked up on this.
the small confusion that he was debating on was that I also called Oats out on throwing shit at Grack. he most definitely would have figured out if he had more time
also on the note to HF being "I'm better than you" attitude-- he's honestly not the worst offender of this compared to some others I've played with. He generally is considered, and is, a very good mafia player, but he does answer your questions and engage with you if you don't just randomly ignore him/go AFK.
I've enjoyed playing against and with HF my few games here, so there's my anecdote.
the game was still incredibly fun, even though I got wrecked by town D1
 I still have much to learn, and this was my first scum game that wasn't filled with 100% newbies, so thanks everyone, again! a looot to learn about playing on both sides.
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Damn congrats Oats (and scum company), you sheeped smartly on the last day. It sucks that I got NK'd night 2 cause I would have had a read on damerion day 3 and would have saved town a lynch. I guess I will have to play more scummy to not get lynched when I get a blue role.
Also it really did suck with the AFKs. And it wasn't that it was just one person but that so many people went afk for almost an entire day/night cycle or if they did post something it was very minimal activity.
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EPT
