EPTGSL Super Tournament: The Last Test Before BlizzCon - Page 3
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Argonauta
Spain4900 Posts
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13948 Posts
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Mizenhauer
United States1760 Posts
On September 28 2017 21:50 Cricketer12 wrote: great series and great g3 LotV Mech vs Zerg is so much less entertaining/compelling/interesting/nuanced than HotS Mech vs Zerg. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13948 Posts
On September 28 2017 22:55 mizenhauer wrote: LotV Mech vs Zerg is so much less entertaining/compelling/interesting/nuanced than HotS Mech vs Zerg. Idk man. I never said this was the GOAT series of all time. It was fun | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On September 28 2017 22:55 mizenhauer wrote: LotV Mech vs Zerg is so much less entertaining/compelling/interesting/nuanced than HotS Mech vs Zerg. Turtling into an invincible Raven/BC army? | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On September 28 2017 22:55 mizenhauer wrote: LotV Mech vs Zerg is so much less entertaining/compelling/interesting/nuanced than HotS Mech vs Zerg. It's not like if the actual mech was the final version, it's more an alpha | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1760 Posts
On September 28 2017 23:03 pvsnp wrote: Turtling into an invincible Raven/BC army? You mean, Zerg having to defend against all kinds of harassment while finding ways to do damage with underpowered comps while building an economy and teching with the third tech switch in mind? You didn't beat a good mech player with one comp, you needed to make the right comp over and over, setting them up for the eventual kill. hydras and vipers then queens and ultras, corrupters and broodlords, you had to mix all of these together over the course of many army trades. Rogue just made the same comp that whole game, just like ever LotV mech game in the current meta. The trade/remax dynamic has been heavily neutered in LotV leading to the Zerg brainlessly bashing into the mech army that is just mass thors because tanks blow against swarm hosts. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8974 Posts
On September 28 2017 23:28 mizenhauer wrote: You mean, Zerg having to defend against all kinds of harassment while finding ways to do damage with underpowered comps while building an economy and teching with the third tech switch in mind? You didn't beat a good mech player with one comp, you needed to make the right comp over and over, setting them up for the eventual kill. hydras and vipers then queens and ultras, corrupters and broodlords, you had to mix all of these together over the course of many army trades. Rogue just made the same comp that whole game, just like ever LotV mech game in the current meta. The trade/remax dynamic has been heavily neutered in LotV leading to the Zerg brainlessly bashing into the mech army that is just mass thors because tanks blow against swarm hosts. You don't need to switch comps when viper/courruptor/swarmhost with some hydra support can win on it's own. Mech isn't as OP as it was in HoTS | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1760 Posts
On September 28 2017 23:46 Fango wrote: You don't need to switch comps when viper/courruptor/swarmhost with some hydra support can win on it's own. Mech isn't as OP as it was in HoTS Which is why....... LotV Mech vs Zerg is so much less entertaining/compelling/interesting/nuanced than HotS Mech vs Zerg. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15075 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8980 Posts
I guess at the end of HOTS it was a bit better when there was BC involve and it was a bit more mobile. But seriously those damn mech tvz on like Vani were so god damn borring. | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1760 Posts
On September 29 2017 04:09 Phredxor wrote: Yeah bring back 2 hour SH stalemates! How many elite Koreans got involved in two hour swarm hosts games? I love when people revise the history of an entire expansion based on some fuzzy memories. Besides, I was referring to end HotS mech which was far more dynamic than the nonsense we see now. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15075 Posts
On September 29 2017 04:58 mizenhauer wrote: How many elite Koreans got involved in two hour swarm hosts games? I love when people revise the history of an entire expansion based on some fuzzy memories. Besides, I was referring to end HotS mech which was far more dynamic than the nonsense we see now. I mean that's what you were doing too. End of hots mech was only a short portion of hots mech. And it was stupid strong. | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1760 Posts
On September 29 2017 05:18 Phredxor wrote: I mean that's what you were doing too. End of hots mech was only a short portion of hots mech. And it was stupid strong. It was very strong and very Terran favored which is why it was so enjoyable to watch in my opinion. The Zerg had to work so hard to deal with the stronger compositions and maps that favored mech play. When they did, it was so rewarding. When they didn't it was immensely frustrating, but the struggle was so enthralling. In no way did I revise the history of any aspect of end of HotS mech. That's what it was like - an uphill battle for Zerg that really only ByuL and Rogue had any idea how to approach. I remember well because I watched a lot of those games over the course of the last year and they remain more vivid than many of the LotV games I watch on a weekly basis. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On September 29 2017 05:21 mizenhauer wrote: It was very strong and very Terran favored which is why it was so enjoyable to watch in my opinion. The Zerg had to work so hard to deal with the stronger compositions and maps that favored mech play. When they did, it was so rewarding. When they didn't it was immensely frustrating, but the struggle was so enthralling. In no way did I revise the history of any aspect of end of HotS mech. That's what it was like - an uphill battle for Zerg that really only ByuL and Rogue had any idea how to approach. I remember well because I watched a lot of those games over the course of the last year and they remain more vivid than many of the LotV games I watch on a weekly basis. I still don't understand why a meta you outright admit was heavily Terran-favored should be looked upon as a good thing. | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1760 Posts
On September 29 2017 05:23 pvsnp wrote: I still don't understand why a meta you outright admit was heavily Terran-favored should be looked upon as a good thing. Zerg was also pretty strong against bio during the same period and not every Terran could mech effectively. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On September 29 2017 05:41 mizenhauer wrote: Zerg was also pretty strong against bio during the same period and not every Terran could mech effectively. It's true that, just like now, Zerg being overly strong against bio was the reason that mech came about to dominate the TvZ meta. That being said, I don't think I'm alone in thinking that bio TvZ does tend to produce superior (which is to say, more entertaining) games than mech TvZ, on average. While I like mech being viable, watching game after game of meching Terrans gets stale really fast compared to bio. I'd say the perfect balance would be something like 75% bio and 25% mech in TvZ. More to the original point, the meta in 2015 was such that bio was not really viable at the highest levels, while mech dominated hard. It's not surprising that Terrans converted to mech en masse back then. Compared to now, bio is less viable than it used to be (heavy reliance on lategame) but still kinda-sorta doable with enough skill, whereas mech is nowhere near as strong as it used to be. At best I would say it's slightly stronger than bio, but most of that comes from the fact that a lategame mech army is just a hell of a lot easier to control than a lategame bio army. Though. it certainly seems like the much-vaunted Korean Terrans™ have lost their edge as of late. The last season of GSL had a TvZ winrate of 47%.....not bad at all at first glance, but when you compare it to Season 1's 58% or Season 2's 73% (!), Terrans have really gone downhill recently. The Four Horsemen were rendered obsolete after Maru and ByuN failed to deliver the results to prop up the hype, aLive and Gumiho have both slumped from their midyear peaks, Ryung hasn't been relevant since Season 1, at least TY held to some kind of stability but no more trophies.......really, the only Korean Terran that's countered the downward trend is, ironically enough for those who claim he is so meta-dependent, INnoVation. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
You can't honestly tell me that bashing your head against planetaries and PDDs on Echo or Coda was more vivid than hydra bane. It was the same monotous kind of shit, except it took 40 minutes for the Zerg to kill themselves. Dark vs INnoVation in GSL was better than any mech game of HotS (save for Dark vs MMA which was good, because neither of them played the 20min no rush) | ||
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