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On June 02 2014 10:10 MoonfireSpam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 09:21 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'm surprised the increasing social acceptance of being fat across the board hasn't been mentioned (so far as I can tell)
While I don't advocate a culture of people being made to feel shit about themselves, I'd imagine it would have some cumulative impact I'm sure there are some cultures out there where being fat is seen as superior to being thin. As for the rest of the world I don't get why people just don't eat less and/or move more if they really wanna stay in a nice pretty slim shape. Don't even have to eat super healthy, just adjust the quantities. It really barely matters unless you're a competitive athlete. People collectively seem so fucking retarded when it comes to this stuff.
people are lazy and are fed wrong information all day.
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On June 02 2014 10:10 MoonfireSpam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 09:21 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'm surprised the increasing social acceptance of being fat across the board hasn't been mentioned (so far as I can tell)
While I don't advocate a culture of people being made to feel shit about themselves, I'd imagine it would have some cumulative impact I'm sure there are some cultures out there where being fat is seen as superior to being thin. As for the rest of the world I don't get why people just don't eat less and/or move more if they really wanna stay in a nice pretty slim shape. Don't even have to eat super healthy, just adjust the quantities. It really barely matters unless you're a competitive athlete. People collectively seem so fucking retarded when it comes to this stuff.
People, the average person, are not intelligent or smart...
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Sugar is the cheapest and easiest way to make any food palpable, and isn't regulated or cautioned against quite the way fats are. As a result it's highly prevalent in all processed food, and people get way too much of it in their diet. It's not only energy-rich but also wrecks your metabolism and appetite in ways that makes you suspectible to obesity.
Other lesser but significant causes are immobility and alcohol.
I expect sugar sactions will be society's next attempt to deal with this issue. If that doesn't work, then medicine. What's
not going to happen is that people start excersising their willpower and wisdom to regulate their own diet. People are far too lazy for that, and drinking and eating are two of the greatest joys in everyone's life.
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On June 02 2014 10:11 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 10:10 MoonfireSpam wrote:On June 02 2014 09:21 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'm surprised the increasing social acceptance of being fat across the board hasn't been mentioned (so far as I can tell)
While I don't advocate a culture of people being made to feel shit about themselves, I'd imagine it would have some cumulative impact I'm sure there are some cultures out there where being fat is seen as superior to being thin. As for the rest of the world I don't get why people just don't eat less and/or move more if they really wanna stay in a nice pretty slim shape. Don't even have to eat super healthy, just adjust the quantities. People collectively seem so fucking retarded when it comes to this stuff. In Hmong culture, that was the case. Being fat was seen as a sign of eating well and such. Dunno about other cultures lol.
In the united states it is unacceptable to ask someone about their weight or make fun of someone for being fat, "body acceptance" is talked about alot. Compare this to asian cultures where being super skinny is ideal and family members usually greet people with "did you gain weight", it really isn't surprising how some of the lowest obesity rates are east asain
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On June 04 2014 07:52 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 10:11 BigFan wrote:On June 02 2014 10:10 MoonfireSpam wrote:On June 02 2014 09:21 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'm surprised the increasing social acceptance of being fat across the board hasn't been mentioned (so far as I can tell)
While I don't advocate a culture of people being made to feel shit about themselves, I'd imagine it would have some cumulative impact I'm sure there are some cultures out there where being fat is seen as superior to being thin. As for the rest of the world I don't get why people just don't eat less and/or move more if they really wanna stay in a nice pretty slim shape. Don't even have to eat super healthy, just adjust the quantities. People collectively seem so fucking retarded when it comes to this stuff. In Hmong culture, that was the case. Being fat was seen as a sign of eating well and such. Dunno about other cultures lol. In the united states it is unacceptable to ask someone about their weight or make fun of someone for being fat, "body acceptance" is talked about alot. Compare this to asian cultures where being super skinny is ideal and family members usually greet people with "did you gain weight", it really isn't surprising how some of the lowest obesity rates are east asain
Yeah, what pisses me off is the Western society even seeing it as a illness. So never talk about those "poor" people.
These people are just lazy, they are not ill. (of course exceptions EXIST)
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On June 04 2014 08:03 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 07:52 LSB wrote:On June 02 2014 10:11 BigFan wrote:On June 02 2014 10:10 MoonfireSpam wrote:On June 02 2014 09:21 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'm surprised the increasing social acceptance of being fat across the board hasn't been mentioned (so far as I can tell)
While I don't advocate a culture of people being made to feel shit about themselves, I'd imagine it would have some cumulative impact I'm sure there are some cultures out there where being fat is seen as superior to being thin. As for the rest of the world I don't get why people just don't eat less and/or move more if they really wanna stay in a nice pretty slim shape. Don't even have to eat super healthy, just adjust the quantities. People collectively seem so fucking retarded when it comes to this stuff. In Hmong culture, that was the case. Being fat was seen as a sign of eating well and such. Dunno about other cultures lol. In the united states it is unacceptable to ask someone about their weight or make fun of someone for being fat, "body acceptance" is talked about alot. Compare this to asian cultures where being super skinny is ideal and family members usually greet people with "did you gain weight", it really isn't surprising how some of the lowest obesity rates are east asain Yeah, what pisses me off is the Western society even seeing it as a illness. So never talk about those "poor" people. These people are just lazy, they are not ill. (of course exceptions EXIST)
Well but there's still no reason to "look down" on fat people or ridicule them. People don't do that with alcoholics either, although the latter is also dangerous to the person drinking and to people around them and costs society money. Same with several other addictions.
Smoking weed often isn't even perceived as something negative although potheads aren't exactly known for being the most disciplined or productive people in society.
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I would imagine that it will only get much worse as people continue to blame the wrong reasons and cling to conventional wisdom. Someone posted a great video about obesity in another thread that argued against many of the usual suspects (overeating, lazy). It presented examples of widespread obesity in groups of people that challenges these ideas- groups living in extreme poverty (overeating?) or working in tough physical labor/factories (lazy?). Yet we seem to continue barking up the wrong tree. I don't claim to be an expert, but I just think there is much more to this than most of us are aware of.
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On June 04 2014 08:17 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 08:03 sharkie wrote:On June 04 2014 07:52 LSB wrote:On June 02 2014 10:11 BigFan wrote:On June 02 2014 10:10 MoonfireSpam wrote:On June 02 2014 09:21 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'm surprised the increasing social acceptance of being fat across the board hasn't been mentioned (so far as I can tell)
While I don't advocate a culture of people being made to feel shit about themselves, I'd imagine it would have some cumulative impact I'm sure there are some cultures out there where being fat is seen as superior to being thin. As for the rest of the world I don't get why people just don't eat less and/or move more if they really wanna stay in a nice pretty slim shape. Don't even have to eat super healthy, just adjust the quantities. People collectively seem so fucking retarded when it comes to this stuff. In Hmong culture, that was the case. Being fat was seen as a sign of eating well and such. Dunno about other cultures lol. In the united states it is unacceptable to ask someone about their weight or make fun of someone for being fat, "body acceptance" is talked about alot. Compare this to asian cultures where being super skinny is ideal and family members usually greet people with "did you gain weight", it really isn't surprising how some of the lowest obesity rates are east asain Yeah, what pisses me off is the Western society even seeing it as a illness. So never talk about those "poor" people. These people are just lazy, they are not ill. (of course exceptions EXIST) Well but there's still no reason to "look down" on fat people or ridicule them. People don't do that with alcoholics either, although the latter is also dangerous to the person drinking and to people around them and costs society money. Same with several other addictions. Smoking weed often isn't even perceived as something negative although potheads aren't exactly known for being the most disciplined or productive people in society.
Yet look at drunken driving deaths in societies where alcoholism is accepted vrs not. The whole entire "we should accept people for who they are" is a very western thought.
To call the obesity epidemic worldwide is ridiculous, it is a product of our societal acceptance, societies where fat people are judged harshly don't have this problem.
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On June 04 2014 08:23 screamingpalm wrote:
I would imagine that it will only get much worse as people continue to blame the wrong reasons and cling to conventional wisdom. Someone posted a great video about obesity in another thread that argued against many of the usual suspects (overeating, lazy). It presented examples of widespread obesity in groups of people that challenges these ideas- groups living in extreme poverty (overeating?) or working in tough physical labor/factories (lazy?). Yet we seem to continue barking up the wrong tree. I don't claim to be an expert, but I just think there is much more to this than most of us are aware of.
That's a horrible study.
Poverty is not a good indicator for overeating. In fact healthy food is far more expensive than cheap food. I can go to harolds chicken and get half a chicken (fried) and fries for $3.16, while buying healthy is more expensive (unless you decide to cook for yourself).
Likewise just working out doesn't mean you are not going to overeat. If you eat 5000 calories, no matter how tough your job is you will go fat
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On June 04 2014 08:44 LSB wrote:
To call the obesity epidemic worldwide is ridiculous, it is a product of our societal acceptance, societies where fat people are judged harshly don't have this problem.
I don't buy this. I think it's much simpler. If you give your pets too much too eat they're going to get fat. Same will happen to humans. Some people are disciplined enough to not gain weight, the majority will. I think the only solution is to either tax fat unhealthy food like crazy, have some medical breakthrough or just live with people getting fatter.
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On June 04 2014 08:44 LSB wrote:
That's a horrible study.
Poverty is not a good indicator for overeating. In fact healthy food is far more expensive than cheap food. I can go to harolds chicken and get half a chicken (fried) and fries for $3.16, while buying healthy is more expensive (unless you decide to cook for yourself).
Likewise just working out doesn't mean you are not going to overeat. If you eat 5000 calories, no matter how tough your job is you will go fat
Yes, I would say quality is far more important of a factor than quantity... not all calories are created equal etc. That lines up with my own experiences when travelling between the US and Italy- where I ate at least 3 times more in quantity and lost weight compared to living in the US. Then you get into policy making and politics and subsidies for GMO corn and monoculture etc. In the example presented though, these people were getting by on scraps of food (and no KFC), directly challenging one of the popular caricatures that people seem to enjoy venting their hate upon.
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On June 04 2014 08:17 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 08:03 sharkie wrote:On June 04 2014 07:52 LSB wrote:On June 02 2014 10:11 BigFan wrote:On June 02 2014 10:10 MoonfireSpam wrote:On June 02 2014 09:21 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'm surprised the increasing social acceptance of being fat across the board hasn't been mentioned (so far as I can tell)
While I don't advocate a culture of people being made to feel shit about themselves, I'd imagine it would have some cumulative impact I'm sure there are some cultures out there where being fat is seen as superior to being thin. As for the rest of the world I don't get why people just don't eat less and/or move more if they really wanna stay in a nice pretty slim shape. Don't even have to eat super healthy, just adjust the quantities. People collectively seem so fucking retarded when it comes to this stuff. In Hmong culture, that was the case. Being fat was seen as a sign of eating well and such. Dunno about other cultures lol. In the united states it is unacceptable to ask someone about their weight or make fun of someone for being fat, "body acceptance" is talked about alot. Compare this to asian cultures where being super skinny is ideal and family members usually greet people with "did you gain weight", it really isn't surprising how some of the lowest obesity rates are east asain Yeah, what pisses me off is the Western society even seeing it as a illness. So never talk about those "poor" people. These people are just lazy, they are not ill. (of course exceptions EXIST) Well but there's still no reason to "look down" on fat people or ridicule them. People don't do that with alcoholics either, although the latter is also dangerous to the person drinking and to people around them and costs society money. Same with several other addictions. Smoking weed often isn't even perceived as something negative although potheads aren't exactly known for being the most disciplined or productive people in society.
Well, society not looking down on fat people and alcoholics is a big part of the problem.
As long as both are classified as a disease, people have other factors to blame than themselves.
Yes, there is a tiny, neglectable percentage of people whose genetic disposition makes them more vulnerable to alcoholism and overeating. But remember, those diseases would barely exist if excess wasn't culturally accepted.
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how is obesity an issue at all?
may someone explain what the issue is (besides society telling us its an issue)?
@guy above me:
wow, ur rly, rly intelligent :D
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Northern Ireland22815 Posts
Do what you want health wise if you live in a society where you have to front the cost of your healthcare.
It becomes a societal issue when you have a nationalised health service. Judging from certain corners of the blogosphere and whatnot (always dangerous to draw wider conclusions from there mind!), there is an attempt to actually dispute that being overweight is in any way a negative thing, and I find that well, something of concern down the line.
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In America ignorance is closer to the sickness while obesity being more of a symptom. We can't even pass laws to LABEL GMO's (not that they are neccessarily unhealthy) let alone get people on mass to get any sort of grasp on health.
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On June 04 2014 09:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Do what you want health wise if you live in a society where you have to front the cost of your healthcare.
It becomes a societal issue when you have a nationalised health service. Judging from certain corners of the blogosphere and whatnot (always dangerous to draw wider conclusions from there mind!), there is an attempt to actually dispute that being overweight is in any way a negative thing, and I find that well, something of concern down the line.
i agree with you to some extend. on the other hand, the correlation between sickness and obesity is way, way smaller than society makes u believe. most of it has psychologic reasons, which society forces itself.
Besides your semi-true point, there really is no such thing as obesity being a problem. Not more or less than any other group of people is. Probably even less than most of them :O
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It's not that GMO products are unhealthy, but the way it is mass produced (monoculture) which depletes the soil of nutrients. Not that corn has any nutritional value (and is actually unhealthy when mixed with a diet containing sugars from what I've read). "Organic" produced in the same fashion doesn't really offer much of an alternative. :D
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Northern Ireland22815 Posts
On June 04 2014 09:24 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 09:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Do what you want health wise if you live in a society where you have to front the cost of your healthcare.
It becomes a societal issue when you have a nationalised health service. Judging from certain corners of the blogosphere and whatnot (always dangerous to draw wider conclusions from there mind!), there is an attempt to actually dispute that being overweight is in any way a negative thing, and I find that well, something of concern down the line.
i agree with you to some extend. on the other hand, the correlation between sickness and obesity is way, way smaller than society makes u believe. most of it has psychologic reasons, which society forces itself. Besides your semi-true point, there really is no such thing as obesity being a problem. Not more or less than any other group of people is. Probably even less than most of them :O
You're functionally healthy until you die years before your time from certain issues that are exacerbated by being overweight, for example cardiovascular problems, diabetes etc. That's overplaying it to a degree, but it's not in the day-to-day that being overweight is a particularly big deal, it's it being a contributory factor in certain conditions that can straight-up kill you down the line.
BMI needs consigned to the dustbin of history in an unrelated sidetrack, and we need a more nuanced way of discussing the issue.
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On June 04 2014 09:07 screamingpalm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 08:44 LSB wrote:
That's a horrible study.
Poverty is not a good indicator for overeating. In fact healthy food is far more expensive than cheap food. I can go to harolds chicken and get half a chicken (fried) and fries for $3.16, while buying healthy is more expensive (unless you decide to cook for yourself).
Likewise just working out doesn't mean you are not going to overeat. If you eat 5000 calories, no matter how tough your job is you will go fat Yes, I would say quality is far more important of a factor than quantity... not all calories are created equal etc. That lines up with my own experiences when travelling between the US and Italy- where I ate at least 3 times more in quantity and lost weight compared to living in the US. Then you get into policy making and politics and subsidies for GMO corn and monoculture etc. In the example presented though, these people were getting by on scraps of food (and no KFC), directly challenging one of the popular caricatures that people seem to enjoy venting their hate upon.
All calories ARE created equal.
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Northern Ireland22815 Posts
Interesting link Nyxisto, albeit the American system is a basket case so not sure what to really draw from it 
I was intrigued to see that the writer said that obesity doesn't significantly increase mortality, but results in increased use of healthcare costs throughout a lifetime, as smokers for example die out significantly younger on average.
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EPT
