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On May 07 2014 03:22 Bratsche wrote: Abduct works on Spore/Spine Crawlers, rips 'em right out.
Solved.
That would be fantastic. Spores and Spines can move like units, why shouldn't they be treated like units? ITS NOT FAIR! But in all seriousness, its a good idea.
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On May 07 2014 03:23 effecto wrote: Sh... what a mistake David, you either lack of motivation or passion. Let's hope you can overcome it.
Look, that post was pretty good. Then this came. Stop insulting the man personally!
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United States97252 Posts
On May 07 2014 03:26 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 03:25 Sharean wrote: Swarm Hosts (and Widow Mines) were the reason I lost interest in watching competitive Starcraft. Terrible unit which counteracts the fast and aggressive nature of Zerg. Don't see a way of rebalancing this unit in a way that is fun to watch. Maybe they should just go ahead and turn it into a baneling-launcher. There's been word about changing them to be faster, give Locust a lower lifetime, a melee attack and more movement speed. They'd become really active units that way! I wouldn't be against trying out a lower life time for locusts so that there is at least a small period of downtime between wave spawns to try and make some move
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On May 07 2014 03:26 SkaPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 03:22 Bratsche wrote: Abduct works on Spore/Spine Crawlers, rips 'em right out.
Solved. That would be fantastic. Spores and Spines can move like units, why shouldn't they be treated like units? ITS NOT FAIR! But in all seriousness, its a good idea. Following that logic; Terran Structures can move ... ?
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I find it funny that the swarmhost get this sort of treatment from blizzard whereas protoss have their gateway units be complete crap to compensate for two arguably broken abilities in forcefields and warp gates.
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On May 07 2014 03:25 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 03:22 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2014 03:21 ANLProbe wrote: Why are Blizzard so incompetent when trying to fix the real issues? By patching the exact same way dota 2 is patched? By buffing the ways to deal with the problem, rather then nerfing it into the ground? By releasing 'quality of life' patches every now and then, which completely destabilize the metagame for weeks on end having a terrible effect on the Pro scene.
The terrible effect on the pro scene helps the game feel fresh and entertaining for the viewers. One of the main issue of Blizzard's handling of the game is how scared they are to change stuff.
If players can't adapt, it's really only their fault. And if patch come out often enough for it to not become stale, then there isn't any issue of " healthy pro scene ".
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On May 07 2014 03:27 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 03:26 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 03:25 Sharean wrote: Swarm Hosts (and Widow Mines) were the reason I lost interest in watching competitive Starcraft. Terrible unit which counteracts the fast and aggressive nature of Zerg. Don't see a way of rebalancing this unit in a way that is fun to watch. Maybe they should just go ahead and turn it into a baneling-launcher. There's been word about changing them to be faster, give Locust a lower lifetime, a melee attack and more movement speed. They'd become really active units that way! I wouldn't be against trying out a lower life time for locusts so that there is at least a small period of downtime between wave spawns to try and make some move Downtime increase and mobility increase are what I would look at.
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United States97252 Posts
On May 07 2014 03:26 SkaPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 03:22 Bratsche wrote: Abduct works on Spore/Spine Crawlers, rips 'em right out.
Solved. That would be fantastic. Spores and Spines can move like units, why shouldn't they be treated like units? ITS NOT FAIR! But in all seriousness, its a good idea. By the same logic though all floating terran structures should then be able to be abducted because Vipers can currently abduct massive units
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On May 07 2014 03:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 03:21 ANLProbe wrote: Why are Blizzard so incompetent when trying to fix the real issues? By patching the exact same way dota 2 is patched? By buffing the ways to deal with the problem, rather then nerfing it into the ground? The unit shouldn't be nerfed per say, but it should be redesigned to promote the multipronged SH style with constant repositioning. The change to the spore crawler and the Hydra is needed though.
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At least they acknowledge for what i think is the first time, that SH is a problem and the only long term answer is to remove it and replace it
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o There are downsides -- Abduct is a really cool ability, and it is something Zerg needs vs. Colossi in PvZ.
Abilities with no remicro options are cool ????
I guess that's why David Kim is also a big fan of Force Fields.
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One idea could be limiting the amount of swarm hosts a player can make - therefore the remaining ~50? supply would be replaced by a secondary attack force.
Does blinding cloud negate swarm host attacks? That could work because it would reduce their usage in battle and would force players to continuously re mobilize them around the map in order to harass and snipe bases.
Not sure if these ideas are any good as I only watch SC in my free time but never play anymore
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On May 07 2014 03:28 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 03:25 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 03:21 Enselmis wrote: Blizzard; The Anti Valve. On May 07 2014 03:22 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2014 03:21 ANLProbe wrote: Why are Blizzard so incompetent when trying to fix the real issues? By patching the exact same way dota 2 is patched? By buffing the ways to deal with the problem, rather then nerfing it into the ground? By releasing 'quality of life' patches every now and then, which completely destabilize the metagame for weeks on end having a terrible effect on the Pro scene. The terrible effect on the pro scene helps the game feel fresh and entertaining for the viewers. One of the main issue of Blizzard's handling of the game is how scared they are to change stuff. If players can't adapt, it's really only their fault. And if patch come out often enough for it to not become stale, then there isn't any issue of " healthy pro scene ". No. It makes the game feel stupid because winners are determined by which race figures Patch 178.7.10 out faster than the opposition. That's dumb. I'll quickly stop watching if that becomes the case. You can't blame the players when they have to deal with a changing environment constantly. The difference between RTS and DotA is that the former requires development and actual strategies, well thought-out moves etcetera. The latter is mostly about communication and clutch actions in the 15 seconds of fame.
Lastly, if the patches come that fast, there is no proscene to have issues.
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On May 07 2014 03:28 Incognoto wrote: I find it funny that the swarmhost get this sort of treatment from blizzard whereas protoss have their gateway units be complete crap to compensate for two arguably broken abilities in forcefields and warp gates. Because the Protoss issue goes much deeper and forces rebalancing of half the matchups in the game.
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On May 07 2014 03:22 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 03:18 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 07 2014 03:03 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 03:00 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 07 2014 02:50 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:48 Noocta wrote:On May 07 2014 02:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:45 Musicus wrote: My worry is, if they once again ignore the SH and instead change other units to counter it, what happnes once they tackle the root of the problem and change or remove it with LotV? Do they change Abduct or the Hydra back again? It's an expansion, they can do anything. They can but they won't. It's obvious at this point David Kim doesn't want or can't change anything deep from the game. No, Duh. They're in the middle of the WCS season. Deleting/Nerfing/Redesigning a unit that is getting reasonable use in three matchups, not to mention it's necessity verse turtleToss, is the best way to fuck over a lot of Zerg players. In expansion, he'll get a new beta and will be able to test big changes. You can't blame the guy for not fucking every Zerg competing for money over. This type of excuse has got to stop. The game has had severe balance issues more then a few times over the years and many players were "fucked over", sometimes by Blizzards reluctance to act (BL/Inf for one). If there is ever an acceptable reason to do potentially destabilizing changes is when those changes are for the greater good of the game. SC2 is not some Holly Grail of balance and entertainment that should not be disturbed. If they are not doing more serious changes is because they can't or don't want to in order to keep them for the expansion, not the poor x race players. You know, on one hand there's people complaining balancing happens to often. Then there's people that want Blizzard to respond to every tiny fucking shift in winrates possible. Since i'm neither i don't see the relevance of that. Offcourse they will not mess with balance for the reason of redesigning a unit because it gives problems in a tiny percentage of mirror matchups! It gave problems in all the Z MUs and it still does. You see, Blizzard themselfs admit "in the long term" they are looking at redesign. You minimizing the problem just doesn't hold water unfortunately. Broodlord Infestor was so hard to figure out and solve. No it wasn't. In the short term, for WOL, they could have reverted the Queen range buff and at least TvZ would have been salvaged. It's easy to bash and stomp on everything they come up with and not bring up any usable argument yourself. Very dramatic. SHs are bad for this games and i have many games to show it plus many people agreeing online, plus Blizz themselfs admitting redesign is on the table "for latter". That enough of an argument for you? And where exactly is your suggestion? I still say the impact on ZvP and ZvT is not yet determinable. As for the rest; Ok. My suggestion? These are not the Bnet forums lol
I can tell you a particular F1 car is not good enough, i can't tell you how to actually build a better one. One is capable of identifying problems without also bringing solutions.
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On May 07 2014 03:21 neptunusfisk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 03:17 Squat wrote:
Nerfing abduct: This outright breaks ZvP and late game mech ZvT. Absolutely not even remotely possible.
Yeah, we can't give terran any stupid hopes about succeding beyond the midgame Huh? Please tell me how zerg fights skyterran without abduct. For reference, watch the game Impact just played vs Trimaster in the ATC. Now imagine that game without abduct on the BCs.
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On May 07 2014 03:29 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 03:26 SkaPunk wrote:On May 07 2014 03:22 Bratsche wrote: Abduct works on Spore/Spine Crawlers, rips 'em right out.
Solved. That would be fantastic. Spores and Spines can move like units, why shouldn't they be treated like units? ITS NOT FAIR! But in all seriousness, its a good idea. By the same logic though all floating terran structures should then be able to be abducted because Vipers can currently abduct massive units Would be a fix to the Avilo trolls that go mass raven viking PDD and lift off to a corner :D
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On May 07 2014 03:29 ANLProbe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 03:22 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2014 03:21 ANLProbe wrote: Why are Blizzard so incompetent when trying to fix the real issues? By patching the exact same way dota 2 is patched? By buffing the ways to deal with the problem, rather then nerfing it into the ground? The unit shouldn't be nerfed per say, but it should be redesigned to promote the multipronged SH style with constant repositioning. The change to the spore crawler and the Hydra is needed though. Suggestions?
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On May 07 2014 02:35 myRZeth wrote: yet again they ignore the real problem:
the swarmhost Wtf did you read a single word of the op?
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On May 07 2014 03:30 astray71 wrote: One idea could be limiting the amount of swarm hosts a player can make - therefore the remaining ~50? supply would be replaced by a secondary attack force.
Does blinding cloud negate swarm host attacks? That could work because it would reduce their usage in battle and would force players to continuously re mobilize them around the map in order to harass and snipe bases.
Not sure if these ideas are any good as I only watch SC in my free time but never play anymore 50 supply would be a bad number. Also, that kind of limit makes no sense whatsoever. For the MSC, having 1, makes reasonable sense. What do we set the limit at? Why? How?
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