On May 07 2014 03:21 Enselmis wrote: Blizzard; The Anti Valve.
On May 07 2014 03:22 Plansix wrote:
On May 07 2014 03:21 ANLProbe wrote: Why are Blizzard so incompetent when trying to fix the real issues?
By patching the exact same way dota 2 is patched? By buffing the ways to deal with the problem, rather then nerfing it into the ground?
By releasing 'quality of life' patches every now and then, which completely destabilize the metagame for weeks on end having a terrible effect on the Pro scene.
The terrible effect on the pro scene helps the game feel fresh and entertaining for the viewers. One of the main issue of Blizzard's handling of the game is how scared they are to change stuff.
If players can't adapt, it's really only their fault. And if patch come out often enough for it to not become stale, then there isn't any issue of " healthy pro scene ".
Plz, the dota teams are fine. Sure a patch dropped right before game 5 of a grand finals, but the teams rolled with it and it made the next match that much more exciting.
Dota is not SC2, you either change with the game or fall behind. The best teams are the ones that adapt and roll with the meta.
Then why are we so scared our SC2 players won't adapt to big changes ?
Hey I'm for big changes, but not the "redesign" stuff you are thinking of. The dota patches are along the lines of an SC2 patch, with a large number of minor changes that tweet things. My hey dot reinvent the wheel and put a laser on the their 4 towers.
On May 07 2014 03:08 Liquid`Snute wrote: The best fix for ZvZ is to just make the Brood Lord immune to Abduct.
Making abduct not work on Massive units would really mess with the other match-ups' endgames, it's tough as it is to deal with properly controlled sky terran and sky protoss
It would be a clunky fix.
What do you think of making Crawlers affected by Abduct?
I think "why can only certain buildings be abducted?" is harder to pass off than "why can certain units not be abducted?" considering unit immunities have existed for so long
Because zerg static defence can uproot, doesnt sound any weird to me atleast
Isn't that the exact same thing? I'd say pulling an airborne structure is easier than a structure that still has claws in the ground.
Too heavy ofc !
I believe the mothership is the largest to scale thing in all of starcraft and it can pull that
On May 07 2014 03:08 Liquid`Snute wrote: The best fix for ZvZ is to just make the Brood Lord immune to Abduct.
Making abduct not work on Massive units would really mess with the other match-ups' endgames, it's tough as it is to deal with properly controlled sky terran and sky protoss
It would be a clunky fix.
What do you think of making Crawlers affected by Abduct?
I think "why can only certain buildings be abducted?" is harder to pass off than "why can certain units not be abducted?" considering unit immunities have existed for so long
Because zerg static defence can uproot, doesnt sound any weird to me atleast
Isn't that the exact same thing? I'd say pulling an airborne structure is easier than a structure that still has claws in the ground.
Too heavy ofc !
I believe the mothership is the largest to scale thing in all of starcraft and it can pull that
Would capping the amount of swarm hosts you can have at once help? I'm not talking about increasing their supply cost, but just making it so you can only have something like 15-20 out at a time?
On May 07 2014 03:08 Liquid`Snute wrote: The best fix for ZvZ is to just make the Brood Lord immune to Abduct.
Making abduct not work on Massive units would really mess with the other match-ups' endgames, it's tough as it is to deal with properly controlled sky terran and sky protoss
It would be a clunky fix.
What do you think of making Crawlers affected by Abduct?
I think "why can only certain buildings be abducted?" is harder to pass off than "why can certain units not be abducted?" considering unit immunities have existed for so long
Because zerg static defence can uproot, doesnt sound any weird to me atleast
Isn't that the exact same thing? I'd say pulling an airborne structure is easier than a structure that still has claws in the ground.
Too heavy ofc !
I believe the mothership is the largest to scale thing in all of starcraft and it can pull that
On May 07 2014 03:08 Liquid`Snute wrote: The best fix for ZvZ is to just make the Brood Lord immune to Abduct.
Making abduct not work on Massive units would really mess with the other match-ups' endgames, it's tough as it is to deal with properly controlled sky terran and sky protoss
It would be a clunky fix.
What do you think of making Crawlers affected by Abduct?
I think "why can only certain buildings be abducted?" is harder to pass off than "why can certain units not be abducted?" considering unit immunities have existed for so long
Because zerg static defence can uproot, doesnt sound any weird to me atleast
Isn't that the exact same thing? I'd say pulling an airborne structure is easier than a structure that still has claws in the ground.
Too heavy ofc !
I believe the mothership is the largest to scale thing in all of starcraft and it can pull that
OMG Starcraft doesn't abide the laws of physics?
My life is a lie!!!!!!!
The Thor lift is totally possible, totally. It makes perfect sense. Or overlord dropping ultras.
On May 07 2014 03:47 Ercster wrote: Would capping the amount of swarm hosts you can have at once help? I'm not talking about increasing their supply cost, but just making it so you can only have something like 15-20 out at a time?
It would not make them more interesting at all. Also, you only need about 15-20 to make them turtleforcers. Lower numbers make them mostly useless.
On May 07 2014 03:08 Liquid`Snute wrote: The best fix for ZvZ is to just make the Brood Lord immune to Abduct.
Making abduct not work on Massive units would really mess with the other match-ups' endgames, it's tough as it is to deal with properly controlled sky terran and sky protoss
It would be a clunky fix.
What do you think of making Crawlers affected by Abduct?
I think "why can only certain buildings be abducted?" is harder to pass off than "why can certain units not be abducted?" considering unit immunities have existed for so long
Because zerg static defence can uproot, doesnt sound any weird to me atleast
Isn't that the exact same thing? I'd say pulling an airborne structure is easier than a structure that still has claws in the ground.
I like the idea of abducting crawlers of either variety. It would lead to some interesting and likely hilarious gameplay. Though watching a rooted spore get abducted might be a little painful, it's basically like watching someone get his penis ripped out.
On May 07 2014 03:08 Liquid`Snute wrote: The best fix for ZvZ is to just make the Brood Lord immune to Abduct.
Making abduct not work on Massive units would really mess with the other match-ups' endgames, it's tough as it is to deal with properly controlled sky terran and sky protoss
It would be a clunky fix.
What do you think of making Crawlers affected by Abduct?
I think "why can only certain buildings be abducted?" is harder to pass off than "why can certain units not be abducted?" considering unit immunities have existed for so long
Because zerg static defence can uproot, doesnt sound any weird to me atleast
Isn't that the exact same thing? I'd say pulling an airborne structure is easier than a structure that still has claws in the ground.
Too heavy ofc !
I believe the mothership is the largest to scale thing in all of starcraft and it can pull that
maybe terran structures are just more dense
Maby the explanation can be that broodlings attach them self to the broodlord and will work as a drag parachute to increase air resistance makin it invulnerable to abduct.
Not sure I care for either of those proposed changes. Buffing Hydra DPS vs bio is going to have a much larger impact than just vs swarm hosts, I would think. Plus, they still die if you breathe on them...
On May 07 2014 03:08 Liquid`Snute wrote: The best fix for ZvZ is to just make the Brood Lord immune to Abduct.
Making abduct not work on Massive units would really mess with the other match-ups' endgames, it's tough as it is to deal with properly controlled sky terran and sky protoss
It would be a clunky fix.
What do you think of making Crawlers affected by Abduct?
I think "why can only certain buildings be abducted?" is harder to pass off than "why can certain units not be abducted?" considering unit immunities have existed for so long
Because zerg static defence can uproot, doesnt sound any weird to me atleast
Isn't that the exact same thing? I'd say pulling an airborne structure is easier than a structure that still has claws in the ground.
Too heavy ofc !
I believe the mothership is the largest to scale thing in all of starcraft and it can pull that
OMG Starcraft doesn't abide the laws of physics?
My life is a lie!!!!!!!
The Thor lift is totally possible, totally. It makes perfect sense. Or overlord dropping ultras.
medivacs have ridiculous thrusters and an electromagnet to hold the thor and ultralisks can clearly compress how do you think they fit in eggs?
I wanted spore buff reverted or toned down to begin with, it's crazy stupid right now. A tiny hydra buff for AA vs bio could be good but it could QUICKLY become too much.. hydra have already had their attack rate increased once since spore buff.. I'm hoping for more than just avoiding the swarm host problem.. I want mutas to be viable again!
Does anyone know if Blizzard has given any thought to making swarm hosts an energy-based unit? They could get energy similarly to how a viper might, or perhaps by killing non-locust units or structures. Too many wasted locust waves would exhaust the energy reserves and the swarm host would have to do something to recover energy.
On May 07 2014 03:08 Liquid`Snute wrote: The best fix for ZvZ is to just make the Brood Lord immune to Abduct.
Making abduct not work on Massive units would really mess with the other match-ups' endgames, it's tough as it is to deal with properly controlled sky terran and sky protoss
It would be a clunky fix.
What do you think of making Crawlers affected by Abduct?
I think "why can only certain buildings be abducted?" is harder to pass off than "why can certain units not be abducted?" considering unit immunities have existed for so long
Because zerg static defence can uproot, doesnt sound any weird to me atleast
Isn't that the exact same thing? I'd say pulling an airborne structure is easier than a structure that still has claws in the ground.
Too heavy ofc !
I believe the mothership is the largest to scale thing in all of starcraft and it can pull that
maybe terran structures are just more dense
Maby the explanation can be that broodlings attach them self to the broodlord and will work as a drag parachute to increase air resistance makin it invulnerable to abduct.
Brood Lord could just secrete a chemical on its skin that makes the viper tentacle tongue thing not attach
On May 07 2014 03:08 Liquid`Snute wrote: The best fix for ZvZ is to just make the Brood Lord immune to Abduct.
Making abduct not work on Massive units would really mess with the other match-ups' endgames, it's tough as it is to deal with properly controlled sky terran and sky protoss
It would be a clunky fix.
What do you think of making Crawlers affected by Abduct?
I think "why can only certain buildings be abducted?" is harder to pass off than "why can certain units not be abducted?" considering unit immunities have existed for so long
Because zerg static defence can uproot, doesnt sound any weird to me atleast
Isn't that the exact same thing? I'd say pulling an airborne structure is easier than a structure that still has claws in the ground.
Too heavy ofc !
I believe the mothership is the largest to scale thing in all of starcraft and it can pull that
maybe terran structures are just more dense
Maby the explanation can be that broodlings attach them self to the broodlord and will work as a drag parachute to increase air resistance makin it invulnerable to abduct.
I like the explanation of broodlings sacrificing themselves for their lord, so you have to abduct trice to actually get the broodlord himself!
On May 07 2014 03:50 diplomatten wrote: Does anyone know if Blizzard has given any thought to making swarm hosts an energy-based unit? They could get energy similarly to how a viper might, or perhaps by killing non-locust units or structures. Too many wasted locust waves would exhaust the energy reserves and the swarm host would have to do something to recover energy.
They can but they won't. It's obvious at this point David Kim doesn't want or can't change anything deep from the game.
No, Duh. They're in the middle of the WCS season. Deleting/Nerfing/Redesigning a unit that is getting reasonable use in three matchups, not to mention it's necessity verse turtleToss, is the best way to fuck over a lot of Zerg players. In expansion, he'll get a new beta and will be able to test big changes. You can't blame the guy for not fucking every Zerg competing for money over.
This type of excuse has got to stop. The game has had severe balance issues more then a few times over the years and many players were "fucked over", sometimes by Blizzards reluctance to act (BL/Inf for one).
If there is ever an acceptable reason to do potentially destabilizing changes is when those changes are for the greater good of the game. SC2 is not some Holly Grail of balance and entertainment that should not be disturbed.
If they are not doing more serious changes is because they can't or don't want to in order to keep them for the expansion, not the poor x race players.
You know, on one hand there's people complaining balancing happens to often. Then there's people that want Blizzard to respond to every tiny fucking shift in winrates possible.
Since i'm neither i don't see the relevance of that.
Offcourse they will not mess with balance for the reason of redesigning a unit because it gives problems in a tiny percentage of mirror matchups!
It gave problems in all the Z MUs and it still does. You see, Blizzard themselfs admit "in the long term" they are looking at redesign. You minimizing the problem just doesn't hold water unfortunately.
Broodlord Infestor was so hard to figure out and solve.
No it wasn't. In the short term, for WOL, they could have reverted the Queen range buff and at least TvZ would have been salvaged.
It's easy to bash and stomp on everything they come up with and not bring up any usable argument yourself.
Very dramatic. SHs are bad for this games and i have many games to show it plus many people agreeing online, plus Blizz themselfs admitting redesign is on the table "for latter". That enough of an argument for you?
And where exactly is your suggestion? I still say the impact on ZvP and ZvT is not yet determinable. As for the rest; Ok.
My suggestion? These are not the Bnet forums lol
I can tell you a particular F1 car is not good enough, i can't tell you how to actually build a better one. One is capable of identifying problems without also bringing solutions.
So, what exactly is your contribution then? Saying what David says exactly?
lol you are funny
SHs need to be addressed in all 3 MUs, not just ZvZ. I could't have sworn i've said it before though.
lol ty
WG/FF/Mech/BC/Thor/Ghost/Oracle/MSC/Infestor/BL need to be adressed in all 3 MU, not just XvX. ezpz!
Np!
Blizzard doesn't read your suggestions or solutions. Nor should they really. The only direct feedback they sometimes listen to is from some pros and some casters. I know it's cool and it makes one feel important to think a huge game developer reads and thinks about youre "suggestions" and theorycrafting, but that's just not possible.
The only "power" the greater community has is through sheer volume of posts and feedback. 20 pg of SHs OP is much more likely to initiate a response then 2 pg of detailed and laborious "suggestions". Posts about the economy, mech, unit micro etc were superb in their content yet ignored. On the other hand, hundreds of posts on keeping the Carrier produce results.
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