EPTButs its so delicious T_T
And itll have to stay there for a while, gotta go walk animal and purchase food. Gl town, see ya in a few hours.
Handslaps and Fisticuff: A PYP Mini [M][T] - Page 39
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
Buts its so delicious T_T And itll have to stay there for a while, gotta go walk animal and purchase food. Gl town, see ya in a few hours. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:26 LSB wrote: I'm typing my response up... I'll just post random thoughts here before I post my argument on rayn's plan which I'm still working on I already locked 2,1 before I went to sleep yesterday. So that isn't going to work in the first place, see you at the bottom of the list Rayn and Gumshoe. I guess that means unless Rayn chickened out that me and his own personal picks will be irrelevant as part of the plan. Artanis seems to be confirmed town to me considering he hasn't claimed mafia yet and he is actually trying. Dunno if his mafia behavior changed since last game. Why would you lock numbers before town got the chance to talk about plans? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:08 austinmcc wrote: ? We may or may not know if someone else is silent Even if that person knows, we may or may not know because that person might be mafia and lie If we have a silent shooter we don't know about, we lynch town (assuming mafia assassin would mean that mafia don't silent day shoot with another role cuz it would just lead to mafia getting lynched). If someone says "oh ya I'm silent too" then what...we have assassin vigi the claimer, assuming that a silent modification is scummy, and we hopefully hit scum, but then there's no reason for them to claim? The OP says roles will be modified and we may or may not know how. The SPECIFICS of this plan rely on roles working as posted in the OP. The OP essentially says "The basis for this plan is false." If we know where KP roles are, that's a pretty massive step in working out what is going on in the game, that is for certain. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:32 austinmcc wrote: (Caps are for emphasis and fun, not anger) As always buddy  I think you are drastically overestimating how much the roles can be changed | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:32 marvellosity wrote: I agree with this.If we know where KP roles are, that's a pretty massive step in working out what is going on in the game, that is for certain. I question our ability to know how exactly they will work. Like...in 4 KP roles if you count JOAT, something's likely funky for one faction or another. And if we don't know how they work, knowing where they are is...equally/less/not at all valuable, because we can act incorrectly based on our knowledge. I also hate the idea of stocking up on KP roles in general, would so much rather see NOBODY TAKE KP EVER and the leftover dude confirm that, and have it be town with defensive and investigative roles v. mafia. PYP KP roles seem to be town-seeking. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:33 marvellosity wrote: OP says 9-3 or 9-2-1I'd expect 8-3-1 given PYPness is a bonus for town, not mafia. or 9-3. This is a semi-open setup for 12 players. There will be either 9 Town and 3 scum or 9 Town, 2 Scum and 1 Third Party Survivor. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
"but if people don't cooperate" - say *which* people "but if a trigger happy townie..." - which trigger happy townie? "if town don't do this..." - who in town? Enough players, and important ones, have lent support for organisation that if you're going to bring up specific problems, bring them up in relation to specific players. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
Ah. Well I think 9-2-1 is ridiculously imbalanced so I am going to assume there is no survivor. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
But jeebus if we put the leftover dude as first pick, have him claim what is/isn't leftover, then shoot him D1 lolololol, we could be certain that we had no KP roles and the game was chock full of DTs and medics/JKs, and then we hope that scum medics don't poison or ... I dunno what other stuff. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:36 austinmcc wrote: I agree with this. I question our ability to know how exactly they will work. Like...in 4 KP roles if you count JOAT, something's likely funky for one faction or another. And if we don't know how they work, knowing where they are is...equally/less/not at all valuable, because we can act incorrectly based on our knowledge. I also hate the idea of stocking up on KP roles in general, would so much rather see NOBODY TAKE KP EVER and the leftover dude confirm that, and have it be town with defensive and investigative roles v. mafia. PYP KP roles seem to be town-seeking. Maybe we don't know how exactly how they work, but if you narrow the options down to a specific set of people, that's already most of the battle. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
What would I do if I was present with this plan? On March 05 2014 23:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: [/center]I hereby announce i will pick [2] [1] because my plan is foolproof. All you need to do as i stated: 1st pick (Palmar) picks day vigi 2nd pick (me) picks the Universal Backup 3rd pick picks night vigi 4th pick picks assassin 5th pick picks roleblocker 6th -> can pick whatever they want What i can guarantee you is:
In total this means we are playing a game where there are only vanilla mafiosi against town roles (which are mostly outed but whatevs). If something weird happens and i can't resolve it in reasonable time (resolving = mafia death) you can lynch me. If I was mafia, I would have supported Rayns plan because there is this great way to defeat it. Of course, now that people are aware the the JOAT could kill people too, we will need to adjust Rayn's Plan and account for that. But accepting rayn's plan at it's face value means that there are many easy ways to mess everything up. God help you rayn, god help you... in fact god help mafia lol Step 1: Pick JOAT JOAT has a KP. You shoot someone N1. Immediately you have this huge debate where the night vig claims that he didn't shoot someone, and everyone yelling "RAYNS Plan said all the KP was controlled!" This presents a threefold situation for the town 1) Night Vig is rouge and will shoot again next night 2) Universal Backup is rouge and grabbed a KP role 3) JOAT exists in one of the 7 other roles, which would be incredibly hard to figure out. Step 2: Hope to get mafia members in the KP roles (okay this should be step 0) It should be fairly simple to refuse to use KP on your scumbuddies. If you are directed by town to use KP. It becomes incredibly obvious such as a DT claiming, simply saying "i'm not going to shoot him because I think he is town" when he is mafia. And "I don't know about this, but I'll trust the town and shoot him" when he is town. If you aren't directed this would mean even more major things Universal Backup If it is available grab JOAT and shoot someone. Claim that JOAT was taken by someone else. Otherwise you can cover for your scumbuddies and help em fakeclaim. You have Night Vig Just shoot someone. This brings up the dilemma posted in step one. There is no way to differentiate between a Night Vig, JOAT, or Universal Backup (Picking JOAT) shot. In addition if one of the two mafia shots gets blocked, no one will suspect anything different. You are Day Vig Save your shot till LYLO and win, or till when you can kill someone who isn't mafia safely You are Assassin Kill someone right before the last hour of the day, preferably one of the kp roles that isn't mafia. Assuming there is no way to differentiate between an Assassin KP and a Day Vig KP, the town is probably going to ask the Day Vig and the Assassin to target each other. Proceed to mash the PM button and kill the Day Vig before you die. You just took out two town KP roles for your own lynch. And you'll still have your night kill. This is a great sacrifice. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:37 marvellosity wrote: If I'm one of the people running afoul of this, I think it's a silly request.by the way, people need to stop talking in generalities. Like "but if people don't cooperate" - say *which* people "but if a trigger happy townie..." - which trigger happy townie? "if town don't do this..." - who in town? Enough players, and important ones, have lent support for organisation that if you're going to bring up specific problems, bring them up in relation to specific players. I would say that based on past PYP games, SOMEONE won't cooperate. Palmar has stated he's not going to cooperate IF cooperating = Palmar doesn't get a gun (at least in some cases) We have multiple folks either lying about picking duplicate numbers or actually picking duplicate numbers, gumshoe and LSB. I can't really speculate as to WHO will do a certain thing, only that SOMEONE always seems to do something wonky, and in SOME cases the game has a lot of chatter over whether that's townie or scummy and it's never 100% one or the other (see the tryndamere bit in PYP:LoL, and....other examples that I don't have off the top of my head) On March 06 2014 09:37 marvellosity wrote: So you think EITHER the OP presents a lie (that the game could be 9-2-1) OR 9-2-1 would be imbalanced but is still an option?Ah. Well I think 9-2-1 is ridiculously imbalanced so I am going to assume there is no survivor. Like...then we're already either in a bastard game OR an imbalanced game is a fine setup, indicating that the roles would ACTUALLY shift a fairly decent amount to balance things | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
If I was mafia I would have just shut up and followed rayns plan. After all I have this great way of attack. It's such a great plan for mafia and it would cause a ton of confusion for the town. Of course, now that I pointed out JOAT people will account for that and say "we'll just add JOAT to the plan". No shit, that's cause I pointed it out. This is why rayns plan is bad, if you make any changes it is not longer the plan I am saying is a horribly mafia favored plan. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:44 marvellosity wrote: But assuming the OP is true, either someone claims I AM A SURVIVOR LOLOLOL I WIN or nobody claims that, and we already know which world we're in.i just think it's very unlikely 9-2-1 would be chosen. i think it's there just to introduce uncertainty. I don't think it adds any uncertainty, because the survivor either claims or doesn't, and that should settle which world we're in | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
you cant activate kp roles in the last 12 hours LSB -> JOAT is supposed to use rb's, not kp. I'd like to argue for using the DT power, but that's just me. Under no circumstances should the JOAT be shooting. If town claims their roles and uses them accordingly, the day-vig will get shot as a 2nd lynch, same as the night-vig, same as the assassin. If you are directed to shoot someone and refuse, you will be lynched. End of discussion. This plan requires absolute compliance. That means you have to die. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:45 austinmcc wrote: But assuming the OP is true, either someone claims I AM A SURVIVOR LOLOLOL I WIN or nobody claims that, and we already know which world we're in. I don't think it adds any uncertainty, because the survivor either claims or doesn't, and that should settle which world we're in don't care, not important | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On March 05 2014 21:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: It does not really matter who the JoaT is because you just roleblock someone at N1 and that's it, then they are vanilla. | ||
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