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I'll be addressing the points of Dirk's case on me in order.
(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=67#1337)
The quote itself provides the explanation. Getting a larger "sample size" and "resilience to prodding" are my reasons.
I was contemplating a clarity BH team at the time, given how I felt the clarity slOosh-townread with BH interaction felt like something out of BH's playbook (preemptively call yourself scummy to diffuse the situation), combined with clarity explaning BH's actions to rayn rather than letting the interaction happen / pursuing a better read on BH.
Yes, I followed marv's posts on BH because they made sense. I did not understand BH's town read on me, so my thinking was that BH was letting me get lynched, but still wanted town-cred for being right and thinking I was town. I still think barring the doctor claim, I would have kept with it.
During the 40 minutes BH claimed doctor. Of course that's going to shake things up.
I will concede the point that I was not thorough with treatment of Dirk. I was rushed at the time / I skimmed / dismissed him as misguided townie.
rayn and BH were people who I perceived as not caring about the lynch too much, despite having town reads on me.
I was surprised at the flip. I still don't understand how it happened.
I didn't follow up on rayn because there were other things happening that I was looking at.
The quote to clarity is in the context of marv saying that he doesn't like Risen or Dirk, likes me (objectively as a player), but is content with letting me die instead of giving me another day to prove my worth.
As for rayn's hesitation of lynching me, there's nothing for me to argue against, either as town or scum.
I'll be back later to properly sew up some things. I'm realizing how sloppy / not good my play is.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
slOosh, don't defend yourself (well i guess you can), find us the one remaining mafia if you're town.
and if you think it's me, then find another one :p
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So yeah
Risen
+ Show Spoiler +On October 05 2013 00:01 Risen wrote:
I think we should be lynching into dirk/oats/marv.
Dirk - Came in swinging to the wrong tune, very quickly changed his tune, and for me has blended right into the game (null).
Oats - this guy is crazy. Absolutely nuts and making it impossible to read him. If his meta is this as town then I imagine as scum he gets called out immediately so why WOULDN'T he play like this? I'm immune to the bullshit thinking of "too crazy to be scum". He's not null, he's scummy to me, but he's not the scummiest.
marv - I never think I'll see the day where I feel marv will be playing against town as town. Of these three I want marv lynched the most. Of all the people I have played mafia with marv is the person I have come to view as the best, and the person I respect the most (I think there's a reason he was chosen as a representative). When he cracked down on me earlier I stepped away from the game (I was busy anyways, but usually I'm on my phone posting) because I thought this guy is an amazing player and he thinks I need to be better. So I thought I would read filters and post a case as soon as I was able (yesterday I was out all day barring a very small window for lunch). I woke up and read filters. I did not like rayn immediately. I went into the filters expecting to continue my case on Clarity, but I remembered how rayn played in GoT. I really hated how rayn seemed sleazy to me just like he seemed sleazy in GoT with me in PM chat, but I didn't want to say that because that's meta (unverifiable meta), I want my cases to stand on their own. So I go through his filter and make my case. Then that case gets shouted down for being too long and impossible to read. Looking back at that now, I see the problem and my cases going forward will not be like that, they will be concise and to the point. I really think my case would have been considered much more if I had posted the last summary alone. Now, for why I think marv i sscum
As scum or town I think marv plays an amazing game, but I also think as scum he is prone to do more crazy things than as town. Maybe that's because I hydra'd with him. I thought marv was town because he was helping me without doing the bullshit this is totally town Risen, so by proxy he was helping town. In my mind you lynch the people who are playing anti-town, and that's it. Day 1 that's usually the person posting largely filler and sheeping and making town reads to buddy people. At the end of the day town will do their best to play for town, and scum will do their best to blend with town or they will do something that will make people think "scum couldn't do this". I do not believe that the town marv I know would try to hobble town that hard. I believe he dislikes BH a lot. I don't think he's lying there, and that's what makes for the best "holy shit I can't believe he did that as scum" plays. I said this in Noir, and I'll say it here. Town players do not make big plays like that. It's an ongoing game so I can't comment fully, but there was one thing I was pretty adamant about in that game that people did not follow. I don't think marv would do this to us as town. Lynch the person who played anti-town and then admitted he played anti-town.
Tomorrow I will be voting to lynch marv.
No sloosh in this thread
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Just for reference later can you guys list the point you agree with me on regarding sloosh. Just a few lines. Thansk (away for dinner)
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On October 05 2013 02:02 Dirkzor wrote:
Just for reference later can you guys list the point you agree with me on regarding sloosh. Just a few lines. Thansk (away for dinner)
no, i just agree.
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On October 05 2013 02:02 Dirkzor wrote:
Just for reference later can you guys list the point you agree with me on regarding sloosh. Just a few lines. Thansk (away for dinner)
Association between him and rayn is probably your strongest point.
Plus this other snippet I quoted earlier
What?! You weren't able to get a read on Rayn because you skimmed page 21~40, but you got a strong enough town read on Clarity in those same pages that it made up for your earlier scum read? He was clearly deliberately trying to be vague about Rayn while trying to defend his scumbuddy.
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On October 05 2013 02:00 Oatsmaster wrote:So yeah Risen + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2013 00:01 Risen wrote:
I think we should be lynching into dirk/oats/marv.
Dirk - Came in swinging to the wrong tune, very quickly changed his tune, and for me has blended right into the game (null).
Oats - this guy is crazy. Absolutely nuts and making it impossible to read him. If his meta is this as town then I imagine as scum he gets called out immediately so why WOULDN'T he play like this? I'm immune to the bullshit thinking of "too crazy to be scum". He's not null, he's scummy to me, but he's not the scummiest.
marv - I never think I'll see the day where I feel marv will be playing against town as town. Of these three I want marv lynched the most. Of all the people I have played mafia with marv is the person I have come to view as the best, and the person I respect the most (I think there's a reason he was chosen as a representative). When he cracked down on me earlier I stepped away from the game (I was busy anyways, but usually I'm on my phone posting) because I thought this guy is an amazing player and he thinks I need to be better. So I thought I would read filters and post a case as soon as I was able (yesterday I was out all day barring a very small window for lunch). I woke up and read filters. I did not like rayn immediately. I went into the filters expecting to continue my case on Clarity, but I remembered how rayn played in GoT. I really hated how rayn seemed sleazy to me just like he seemed sleazy in GoT with me in PM chat, but I didn't want to say that because that's meta (unverifiable meta), I want my cases to stand on their own. So I go through his filter and make my case. Then that case gets shouted down for being too long and impossible to read. Looking back at that now, I see the problem and my cases going forward will not be like that, they will be concise and to the point. I really think my case would have been considered much more if I had posted the last summary alone. Now, for why I think marv i sscum
As scum or town I think marv plays an amazing game, but I also think as scum he is prone to do more crazy things than as town. Maybe that's because I hydra'd with him. I thought marv was town because he was helping me without doing the bullshit this is totally town Risen, so by proxy he was helping town. In my mind you lynch the people who are playing anti-town, and that's it. Day 1 that's usually the person posting largely filler and sheeping and making town reads to buddy people. At the end of the day town will do their best to play for town, and scum will do their best to blend with town or they will do something that will make people think "scum couldn't do this". I do not believe that the town marv I know would try to hobble town that hard. I believe he dislikes BH a lot. I don't think he's lying there, and that's what makes for the best "holy shit I can't believe he did that as scum" plays. I said this in Noir, and I'll say it here. Town players do not make big plays like that. It's an ongoing game so I can't comment fully, but there was one thing I was pretty adamant about in that game that people did not follow. I don't think marv would do this to us as town. Lynch the person who played anti-town and then admitted he played anti-town.
Tomorrow I will be voting to lynch marv. No sloosh in this thread
That isn't the day before, and sloosh wasn't not voting rayn.
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I was surprised at the flip. I still don't understand how it happened.
Man this sentence seems so unnatural.
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I meant the page before.
Why should we not lynch sloosh risen?
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Why would sloosh lynch rayn over no lynching, or voting me. Sloosh could have kept his vote on me and claimed scared of last second vote shenans.
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On October 05 2013 02:22 Risen wrote:
Why would sloosh lynch rayn over no lynching, or voting me. Sloosh could have kept his vote on me and claimed scared of last second vote shenans.
He wouldve gotten himself lynched if that were the case, though.
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On October 05 2013 02:23 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 02:22 Risen wrote:
Why would sloosh lynch rayn over no lynching, or voting me. Sloosh could have kept his vote on me and claimed scared of last second vote shenans. He wouldve gotten himself lynched if that were the case, though.
How? He was at 4 votes?
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Maybe it was because I was around and you were on your phone, but people who were on rayn before sloosh expressed their willingness to switch to sloosh if rayn wasn't happening.
This in particular doesn't make sloosh scum but it sure as hell doesn't make him town
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Cause we were either lynching sloosh or lynching Rayn.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
man if our three lynches are gonna be marv sloosh dirk we better be sure oats is town
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On October 05 2013 02:59 Blazinghand wrote:
man if our three lynches are gonna be marv sloosh dirk we better be sure oats is town
if you genuinely think i'm mafia still, i'd really really like you to look at the game as if i were town and produce thoughts on that basis before you die.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 05 2013 03:03 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 02:59 Blazinghand wrote:
man if our three lynches are gonna be marv sloosh dirk we better be sure oats is town if you genuinely think i'm mafia still, i'd really really like you to look at the game as if i were town and produce thoughts on that basis before you die.
i mean if I think you're town, we just lynch sloosh dirk oats and win. risen and holyflare are probably town for stickign to the wagon when there were 3 votes on rayn and 4 on sloosh (both could have reasonably voted for sloosh, and double reasonably since we were minutes from the lynch without a majority)
clarity hammered rayn.
that leaves sloosh and dirk oats marv as the group i think the final scum is in
if I assume marv is town then it's easy, we lynch sloosh dirk oats.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
lynching slOosh is logical just to check if that wagon was scum or town tbh.
from a gameplay perspective alone it makes a lot of sense.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Lynching for information is pretty questionable. Lynching because we think he could be scum is more reasonable.
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EPT
