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Need sleep. I'm going to
##Vote VisceraEyes
him being my strongest read from early on. That combined with what looked to me like a deliberately constructed emotional level, and then fading out of the game. Have a look at him again if he doesn't show something very good before the deadline.
LoneMeow caving under pressure... I'm not sure, it's more likely to happen as scum, but the way it happened is how I'd imagine it would happen for town. I don't mind a lynch if he's not even going to say "I'm town" but since I'll be asleep for the deadline I'm not going to try to add momentum on that with a vote now.
Chairman Ray seems to be playing the way he did in town in that previous game, so considering his personality, there isn't that much scummy about him to me (even his vote reasoning looks similar to the game he was town, as far as I can see)
I've tried to look at Mocsta more carefully, but the personality reads on him don't fit with my picture of him--I see him as gruff and relaxed. Looking at reads and his filter, I'm getting less clear town--by direction and substance--but not scum. I'm not sure how much to trust other people's meta on this, but certainly not enough for my vote at this point
Sentinel was never a great case I think, but he's still leaning a bit scum for me
I'll hang around a few minutes if someone has points or questions for me, but please make it short and sweet if so
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On September 23 2013 09:52 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:50 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 09:49 WaveofShadow wrote:
Look at the people voting for Sentinel though....ugh I don't necessarily dislike any of them. Umasi I don't mind, but Pandain and Coag? How long ago were those votes dumped and forgotten?
Hmm actually not that long ago.
I guess it's because I don't remember what Pandain has even done that game and Coag is Coag to me.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Zaragon, given this is your last moments before you go to bed, why have you only just come into the thread now offering very little time to interact with you?
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Wow shit. So many pages to catch up on. If I am not mistaken, it should be 4 hours until deadline? I'll do my best to read as much as I can, but I'll try to skim through so I can get a proper vote today. It will be a sheepish vote most likely since I don't have time to make a case.
I'm going to be busy during early next week (the next few days), but I will try to be actively on for a few hours at least so that you can get a proper read on me, and that I'm able to pressure some scum properly.
(This is what I get for doing irl stuffs and playing too much dota. >.>)
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On September 23 2013 09:51 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:44 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2013 09:38 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 09:26 marvellosity wrote:
Sidenote: I am troubled by VE's absence Agreed. About FT: It's like FT said. He tries to make up analyses of DP and Geript which are seemingly based on absolutely nothing. On September 22 2013 17:32 FirmTofu wrote:
Just going to post my thoughts as I read.
(On page 31) Mr. DP is being extremely defensive. Instead of actively hunting scum, he's running around pouring water on the fire enveloping him. This is what I don't like. Town DP is someone who reads the read carefully, deliberately, and cautiously. His accusations are usually well reasoned and well timed. This is precisely why he is always a good NK for scum and has a penchant for dying early in most games.
In this game, DP is entirely different. Like, how the fuck does he know this? If he read DP's previous games like he said he'd realize it's not even true. DP constantly goes nuts when people accuse him; he even pointed it out himself this game. He makes an interesting point where he says that this game nobody is scared of DP---I wonder if that is true. Normally DP looks really good really early but this time he has a lot of contentious thoughts regarding his alignment and hasn't done a great deal to relieve himself of them aside from aggressively attempting to take down his attackers or stating to the thread that he will be ignoring them. Now he gets insulting for no reason---where does this attitude come from and why? I've never seen FT act like this: On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT. I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less. On September 22 2013 18:11 FirmTofu wrote:
(Page 35) I don't know if OO is joking with some of his posts or he actually believes the shit he's spewing. Judgement is being reserved. On September 22 2013 18:32 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:27 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT. I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less. So you are posting useless shit casting me in a scummy light and then are very clearly NOT calling me scum. What the fuck is it with bad players attacking me this game. You need to get off your high horse and step back for a minute. I refuse to indulge you and these ad hominem attacks. Maybe my meta argument is bullshit. Maybe I am completely wrong. That doesn't mean you wave your dick around like you rule the thread and every player is a piece of shit compared to you. If you want to discuss why my thoughts are poorly reasoned, I willing to have a go at it. I will not, however, humor you if you continue to waste my time in this manner. ^^That one I kinda liked lol, 'cause he's right. On September 22 2013 18:58 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:50 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I find it odd that FT thought I was scummy for being defensive. And then when I am defensive towards him he thinks I am townie. There is a real inconsistency in his narrative IMO. I think a scum Firm Tofu would ABSOLUTELY not want to get into it with me. Further his originally thread summary was really really off. Actually I have had some thoughts. I may construct a longer post shortly about this if you'll give me some time. I would like to clarify my intentions here. The inconsistent narrative was deliberate. Why? You are active. Accusing you allows me to read you better. Think rayn's style of play. By posting an inconsistent narrative, I can gauge your response as being townie or scummy in a quick, direct, and efficient fashion. Furthermore, I can assess the extent to which you are actually scumhunting. The fact that you noticed the inconsistency makes you look more town to me. You want to find scum. You're looking for inconsistencies.
I can assure you, scum FirmTofu would buddy you until you die. You'll just have to take my word on that bit. This appears to me like a flat-out lie. Could be either alignment caught in a lie though---I have lied as town to dispel suspicions because it's often easier than trying to explain that you were just being dumb, especially to someone tenacious like Axlegreaser, for example. Then we have his exit: On September 22 2013 19:14 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:13 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 19:11 FirmTofu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2013 19:09 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:07 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:00 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 18:51 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I know this isn't addressed to me, but I would like to take a moment to address it. I hope you don't mind. As scum, I would use DP as a tool. I know DP is respected in this community and has the ability to sway lynches in his direction regardless of alignment. Assuming DP is town and I am scum, I would latch on to DP and win his trust. Then, I would exchange reads about other players and slowly convince him to vote whoever I wanted him to vote, essentially leading him astray. As town, I am more interested in determining his alignment. You can see which path I chose to take. Yeah dunno.. your posting is really reading forced to me. That alone doesn't make you scum. I can't follow the above though, regardless of forced/non-forced consciousness... its a lot of talk. As scum I would manipulate player X to be my puppet.. etc etc Very few scum players have that skillset to proactively choose a player to influence; most adapt to the situation as it unfolds. So the above reads as total bullshit to me. Fair enough. I'll give you an example. An extremely relevant one at that.VE has basically been defending DP the entire game. DP, naturally, seems to have no qualms with VE. In fact, I'm fairly sure DP thinks VE is town.Assuming this is true, we must conclude that DP will give VE's opinion more weight compared to the average player in this thread. After all, VE is his town read and town are usually more reliable than scum. If VE is able to convince DP to change his vote on ANYONE, he has already demonstrated that his buddying allowed him to influence DP's vote. In the event that VE is scum, VE can use DP as the voice for his vote, allowing DP to take the brunt of the blame when things go wrong. OK, lets make this relevant. DP ?might? think VE is town. What does FT think VE is? I think it's fairly obvious. I think VE is scum. OK, are you going to lay down a vote. Or is there someone else scummier? I don't like voting when there is still information to read. While VE is my strongest scum read at page 40, he may not be at page 58. On September 22 2013 19:22 FirmTofu wrote:
@DP
As much as I would love to continue to argue with you, I refuse to. I'm not going to spam the thread with an argument between (probably) two townies that will serve no purpose in aiding our quest to find scum. If you have qualms about me, we can address them at a later date.
I'm enjoying this day 1. This is new. I will be sleeping now. Don't bother asking me anything until tomorrow. This looks like he just gave up. Again, the issue is it's possible as scum OR town. Arguing with people becomes exhausting as town, especially if we believe that FT is telling the truth about his own beliefs. Obvious reasons for ditching here as scum, if he is. I think I'm still overall null with a slight scum-lean on him just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment. I don't think his attack on DP is as suicidal as Geript's though (which is why I have my townread on geript) because it is my belief that whereas Geript knows exactly what he is doing and why, FT doesn't when attacking DP, so the scum possibility is there. Thoughts, Marv? Honestly I have very little to add to your whole analysis because I agree on all of it. just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment.This is the nub of it, isn't it. How do we apportion the likelihood of this behaviour to scum/town. Is talking bullcrap about how DP usually plays coming from a townie just saying things, or mafia fabricating? Is his about-turn on DP scum trying to get out of a situation they dumbly got themselves into, or town just changing their mind weirdly? As it stands I don't think I'd be unhappy with a FT lynch, but I'm not sure how confident I'd be on it. My issue is I don't think I like any of the other candidates enough today to vote for them. If I'm 55/ 45 on FT that's better than the...nothing I get from Mocsta or townreads I get from Ray and LM. So im null. and LM/CR are town. OK.
Whats the read on VE?
+ Show Spoiler +Dude, are you still butthurt I creamed you in your first newbie? Since then, you always complain you can't read me. jeez.
P.S. its pretty simple. If im suspicious of everyone, Im usually town. If im suspicous of one or two ppl and then relentlessly tunnel until proven wrong.. then im usually scum.. it really is that simple
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On September 23 2013 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
Wave, give me the town-Ray case if you please?
I don't like this marv.
I'm not confident enough to try and push FT as THE lynch (and as such eliminate Ray from your list) today. It just appears to me as the best of the current options I'm aware of. For all I know you could be ready to sheep anything I say and blame me later and I don't know if I'm ok with that yet. Your 'slowgame' in conjunction with this request worries me.
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On September 23 2013 09:53 Cephiro wrote:
Wow shit. So many pages to catch up on. If I am not mistaken, it should be 4 hours until deadline? I'll do my best to read as much as I can, but I'll try to skim through so I can get a proper vote today. It will be a sheepish vote most likely since I don't have time to make a case.
I'm going to be busy during early next week (the next few days), but I will try to be actively on for a few hours at least so that you can get a proper read on me, and that I'm able to pressure some scum properly.
(This is what I get for doing irl stuffs and playing too much dota. >.>)
FirmTofu / Chairman Ray / LoneMeow are the lynch candidates if i am not mistaken.
And then there is Koshi who is voting for someone he doesn't even think is scum but people can't realize he is scum..
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I've been here, reading off and on, working on a short story. Fair point I could've posted just to make my presence known, but I didn't have much to add until I decided it was time to get on with my vote and get to bed.
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On September 23 2013 09:55 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:51 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 09:44 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2013 09:38 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 09:26 marvellosity wrote:
Sidenote: I am troubled by VE's absence Agreed. About FT: It's like FT said. He tries to make up analyses of DP and Geript which are seemingly based on absolutely nothing. On September 22 2013 17:32 FirmTofu wrote:
Just going to post my thoughts as I read.
(On page 31) Mr. DP is being extremely defensive. Instead of actively hunting scum, he's running around pouring water on the fire enveloping him. This is what I don't like. Town DP is someone who reads the read carefully, deliberately, and cautiously. His accusations are usually well reasoned and well timed. This is precisely why he is always a good NK for scum and has a penchant for dying early in most games.
In this game, DP is entirely different. Like, how the fuck does he know this? If he read DP's previous games like he said he'd realize it's not even true. DP constantly goes nuts when people accuse him; he even pointed it out himself this game. He makes an interesting point where he says that this game nobody is scared of DP---I wonder if that is true. Normally DP looks really good really early but this time he has a lot of contentious thoughts regarding his alignment and hasn't done a great deal to relieve himself of them aside from aggressively attempting to take down his attackers or stating to the thread that he will be ignoring them. Now he gets insulting for no reason---where does this attitude come from and why? I've never seen FT act like this: On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT. I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less. On September 22 2013 18:11 FirmTofu wrote:
(Page 35) I don't know if OO is joking with some of his posts or he actually believes the shit he's spewing. Judgement is being reserved. On September 22 2013 18:32 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:27 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT. I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less. So you are posting useless shit casting me in a scummy light and then are very clearly NOT calling me scum. What the fuck is it with bad players attacking me this game. You need to get off your high horse and step back for a minute. I refuse to indulge you and these ad hominem attacks. Maybe my meta argument is bullshit. Maybe I am completely wrong. That doesn't mean you wave your dick around like you rule the thread and every player is a piece of shit compared to you. If you want to discuss why my thoughts are poorly reasoned, I willing to have a go at it. I will not, however, humor you if you continue to waste my time in this manner. ^^That one I kinda liked lol, 'cause he's right. On September 22 2013 18:58 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:50 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I find it odd that FT thought I was scummy for being defensive. And then when I am defensive towards him he thinks I am townie. There is a real inconsistency in his narrative IMO. I think a scum Firm Tofu would ABSOLUTELY not want to get into it with me. Further his originally thread summary was really really off. Actually I have had some thoughts. I may construct a longer post shortly about this if you'll give me some time. I would like to clarify my intentions here. The inconsistent narrative was deliberate. Why? You are active. Accusing you allows me to read you better. Think rayn's style of play. By posting an inconsistent narrative, I can gauge your response as being townie or scummy in a quick, direct, and efficient fashion. Furthermore, I can assess the extent to which you are actually scumhunting. The fact that you noticed the inconsistency makes you look more town to me. You want to find scum. You're looking for inconsistencies.
I can assure you, scum FirmTofu would buddy you until you die. You'll just have to take my word on that bit. This appears to me like a flat-out lie. Could be either alignment caught in a lie though---I have lied as town to dispel suspicions because it's often easier than trying to explain that you were just being dumb, especially to someone tenacious like Axlegreaser, for example. Then we have his exit: On September 22 2013 19:14 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:13 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 19:11 FirmTofu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2013 19:09 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:07 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:00 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 18:51 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I know this isn't addressed to me, but I would like to take a moment to address it. I hope you don't mind. As scum, I would use DP as a tool. I know DP is respected in this community and has the ability to sway lynches in his direction regardless of alignment. Assuming DP is town and I am scum, I would latch on to DP and win his trust. Then, I would exchange reads about other players and slowly convince him to vote whoever I wanted him to vote, essentially leading him astray. As town, I am more interested in determining his alignment. You can see which path I chose to take. Yeah dunno.. your posting is really reading forced to me. That alone doesn't make you scum. I can't follow the above though, regardless of forced/non-forced consciousness... its a lot of talk. As scum I would manipulate player X to be my puppet.. etc etc Very few scum players have that skillset to proactively choose a player to influence; most adapt to the situation as it unfolds. So the above reads as total bullshit to me. Fair enough. I'll give you an example. An extremely relevant one at that.VE has basically been defending DP the entire game. DP, naturally, seems to have no qualms with VE. In fact, I'm fairly sure DP thinks VE is town.Assuming this is true, we must conclude that DP will give VE's opinion more weight compared to the average player in this thread. After all, VE is his town read and town are usually more reliable than scum. If VE is able to convince DP to change his vote on ANYONE, he has already demonstrated that his buddying allowed him to influence DP's vote. In the event that VE is scum, VE can use DP as the voice for his vote, allowing DP to take the brunt of the blame when things go wrong. OK, lets make this relevant. DP ?might? think VE is town. What does FT think VE is? I think it's fairly obvious. I think VE is scum. OK, are you going to lay down a vote. Or is there someone else scummier? I don't like voting when there is still information to read. While VE is my strongest scum read at page 40, he may not be at page 58. On September 22 2013 19:22 FirmTofu wrote:
@DP
As much as I would love to continue to argue with you, I refuse to. I'm not going to spam the thread with an argument between (probably) two townies that will serve no purpose in aiding our quest to find scum. If you have qualms about me, we can address them at a later date.
I'm enjoying this day 1. This is new. I will be sleeping now. Don't bother asking me anything until tomorrow. This looks like he just gave up. Again, the issue is it's possible as scum OR town. Arguing with people becomes exhausting as town, especially if we believe that FT is telling the truth about his own beliefs. Obvious reasons for ditching here as scum, if he is. I think I'm still overall null with a slight scum-lean on him just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment. I don't think his attack on DP is as suicidal as Geript's though (which is why I have my townread on geript) because it is my belief that whereas Geript knows exactly what he is doing and why, FT doesn't when attacking DP, so the scum possibility is there. Thoughts, Marv? Honestly I have very little to add to your whole analysis because I agree on all of it. just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment.This is the nub of it, isn't it. How do we apportion the likelihood of this behaviour to scum/town. Is talking bullcrap about how DP usually plays coming from a townie just saying things, or mafia fabricating? Is his about-turn on DP scum trying to get out of a situation they dumbly got themselves into, or town just changing their mind weirdly? As it stands I don't think I'd be unhappy with a FT lynch, but I'm not sure how confident I'd be on it. My issue is I don't think I like any of the other candidates enough today to vote for them. If I'm 55/ 45 on FT that's better than the...nothing I get from Mocsta or townreads I get from Ray and LM. So im null. and LM/CR are town. OK. Whats the read on VE? + Show Spoiler +Dude, are you still butthurt I creamed you in your first newbie? Since then, you always complain you can't read me. jeez.
P.S. its pretty simple. If im suspicious of everyone, Im usually town. If im suspicous of one or two ppl and then relentlessly tunnel until proven wrong.. then im usually scum.. it really is that simple
Is this an Aussie thing to tell people about how they can or can't read you based on met in the current game you're playing with them?
lol Mocsta I'm not butthurt, I've honestly just never been able to read you.
I did mean to have a look at VE but I got sidetracked.
The heuristic usually goes lazy VE = scum VE----is that what we're dealing with here?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On September 23 2013 09:56 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
Wave, give me the town-Ray case if you please? I don't like this marv. I'm not confident enough to try and push FT as THE lynch (and as such eliminate Ray from your list) today. It just appears to me as the best of the current options I'm aware of. For all I know you could be ready to sheep anything I say and blame me later and I don't know if I'm ok with that yet. Your 'slowgame' in conjunction with this request worries me.
You can direct me back to this post where I'm telling you that you can lynch me if I do that later in the game.
I just want your view expressed lucidly so I can judge it against what's become a mafia-read on Ray for me.
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Yam, to answer your question about Chariman_Ray construction.
OK.. when normally talking, he does phrase in paragraphs.
But look how he votes here
On September 05 2013 07:48 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 07:35 Lord Velocity wrote:
Nvm. This post was irrelevant, let me fix my keyboard brb in a few hours Irrelevant post? Fixing keyboard? How do these two things even relate? Did anyone see the post before it was edited? I actually think we had a slipup. #vote Lord VelocityWhat was the post before you edited?
He also defends vehemently and with a breakdown of his logic
On September 06 2013 06:14 Chairman Ray wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I am confident that Lord Velocity is a good lynch target. Firstly, his slipup. This doesn't give any tells on his own, but the way he reacted to it, and other people reacted to it does. I see LV's slip as an easy mafia bandwagon target. One of my intentions of voting him was to potentially start a mafia bandwagon. If 3 other people jumped on him as well, there's a good chance we got our mafia right there. However only killerdog jumped on him. Since no other mafia backed him up, I am inclined to believe killerdog may be safe. And since there was absolutely no mafia bandwagon on Lord Velocity at all, there's a greater chance that he is the mafia. My second piece of evidence is on how Lord Velocity reacted to it. I'm so so so so so Sorry people. I said that asking for reads wouldn't be scummy really unless you were trying to bandwagon on their reads, which could subsequently be scummy and realized how dumb I sounded and got embarassed, and the keyboard thing was because I dropped my laptop and had to fix my board itself because it has thin keys. And I was unaware of the no editing rule, I must have missed it. But voting for me(Killer and Chairman) is not the smartest thing. and seeing as you two hopped on it right away seeing an easy lynch but nobody else voted. And I don't even know what QT means, and I fled for an hour or so because I wanted to eat pizza with my sister who is moving out for college. I'm terribly sorry if it was suspicious and I myself have become suspicious of Killer and Chairman in the process. This is killerdog's accusation of LV: Right now I'm seeing a Mafia who posted something he shouldn't have, panicked, and has fled the thread until he can contact his coach/talk to mafia buddies in qt to work out how to do damage control, and until someone comes up with a convincing alternative my vote is staying. When killer accused LV of hiding in qt, he had qt in lowercase. How did LV know to capitalize it? Also, the meaning of qt was clear as crystal just from the context of killerdog's accusation. Not only that, in this entire thread, qt has been mentioned many times. LV has been active. If he didn't know what qt is, why didn't he ask earlier? It was also defined earlier as well. But the strongest case comes from putting yourself in LV's shoes. If you are town, would you phrase it like that? If you are mafia, would you phrase it like that? LV's testimony of not knowing what QT is sounds exactly like someone who's deliberately feigning ignorance. From these piece of evidence, I would suggest that LV is in fact mafia.
Are we getting that this game?
On September 23 2013 04:31 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 04:14 LoneMeow wrote:
I can't get a scum read on anyone but Umasi, and I'm notoriously biased against him so that's almost guaranteed to be wrong. I'll vote him anyway since I have to vote someone. Not sure I'll wake up for the deadline but I'll try.
Chairman Ray is lynchbait like in my last newbie, so probably town. IMHO his "last hour shenigans" plan is terrible, though.
##Vote: Umasi
Here for a while if you want to ask me something. Why would you say that voting Umasi is a terrible idea, yet vote him anyways? It seems to me like you are scum trying to get achieve a town mislynch D1, but unable to muster up any strong cases on anybody. So instead of posting a weak case against them and have everyone call you out on it, you beat us to the punch by telling us your case is poor to begin with. If you are really town, then a town who intentionally makes a bad vote is still hurting town. ##Vote: LoneMeow
To me, its over compensated.
Im holding my vote on this guy.
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On September 23 2013 09:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:56 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
Wave, give me the town-Ray case if you please? I don't like this marv. I'm not confident enough to try and push FT as THE lynch (and as such eliminate Ray from your list) today. It just appears to me as the best of the current options I'm aware of. For all I know you could be ready to sheep anything I say and blame me later and I don't know if I'm ok with that yet. Your 'slowgame' in conjunction with this request worries me. You can direct me back to this post where I'm telling you that you can lynch me if I do that later in the game. I just want your view expressed lucidly so I can judge it against what's become a mafia-read on Ray for me.
Heh it's kinda funny...usually our little conversations go the way they do because I'm leading things and am scum/3P but now I'm on the other side and I'm scurrrred. 
I want to look into VE first; I'll get back to Ray if I have time since I'm pretty sure I won't be voting him (Ray) today.
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On September 23 2013 09:52 Zaragon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Need sleep. I'm going to
##Vote VisceraEyes
him being my strongest read from early on. That combined with what looked to me like a deliberately constructed emotional level, and then fading out of the game. Have a look at him again if he doesn't show something very good before the deadline.
LoneMeow caving under pressure... I'm not sure, it's more likely to happen as scum, but the way it happened is how I'd imagine it would happen for town. I don't mind a lynch if he's not even going to say "I'm town" but since I'll be asleep for the deadline I'm not going to try to add momentum on that with a vote now. Chairman Ray seems to be playing the way he did in town in that previous game, so considering his personality, there isn't that much scummy about him to me (even his vote reasoning looks similar to the game he was town, as far as I can see)+ Show Spoiler +
I've tried to look at Mocsta more carefully, but the personality reads on him don't fit with my picture of him--I see him as gruff and relaxed. Looking at reads and his filter, I'm getting less clear town--by direction and substance--but not scum. I'm not sure how much to trust other people's meta on this, but certainly not enough for my vote at this point
Sentinel was never a great case I think, but he's still leaning a bit scum for me
I'll hang around a few minutes if someone has points or questions for me, but please make it short and sweet if so
Really? I just made a post looking at the votes. I think they are quite different. Can you please detail the similarities.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On September 23 2013 10:02 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:58 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2013 09:56 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
Wave, give me the town-Ray case if you please? I don't like this marv. I'm not confident enough to try and push FT as THE lynch (and as such eliminate Ray from your list) today. It just appears to me as the best of the current options I'm aware of. For all I know you could be ready to sheep anything I say and blame me later and I don't know if I'm ok with that yet. Your 'slowgame' in conjunction with this request worries me. You can direct me back to this post where I'm telling you that you can lynch me if I do that later in the game. I just want your view expressed lucidly so I can judge it against what's become a mafia-read on Ray for me. Heh it's kinda funny...usually our little conversations go the way they do because I'm leading things and am scum/3P but now I'm on the other side and I'm scurrrred. I want to look into VE first; I'll get back to Ray if I have time since I'm pretty sure I won't be voting him (Ray) today.
asap is good for me, i want to go to bed soon.
the offer is open for anyone else lucid who thinks Ray is town, I'd just like a rundown on precisely why (preferably something more than just 'weird newbieness' or something)
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On September 23 2013 09:58 WaveofShadow wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 23 2013 09:55 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:51 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 09:44 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2013 09:38 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 09:26 marvellosity wrote:
Sidenote: I am troubled by VE's absence Agreed. About FT: It's like FT said. He tries to make up analyses of DP and Geript which are seemingly based on absolutely nothing. On September 22 2013 17:32 FirmTofu wrote:
Just going to post my thoughts as I read.
(On page 31) Mr. DP is being extremely defensive. Instead of actively hunting scum, he's running around pouring water on the fire enveloping him. This is what I don't like. Town DP is someone who reads the read carefully, deliberately, and cautiously. His accusations are usually well reasoned and well timed. This is precisely why he is always a good NK for scum and has a penchant for dying early in most games.
In this game, DP is entirely different. Like, how the fuck does he know this? If he read DP's previous games like he said he'd realize it's not even true. DP constantly goes nuts when people accuse him; he even pointed it out himself this game. He makes an interesting point where he says that this game nobody is scared of DP---I wonder if that is true. Normally DP looks really good really early but this time he has a lot of contentious thoughts regarding his alignment and hasn't done a great deal to relieve himself of them aside from aggressively attempting to take down his attackers or stating to the thread that he will be ignoring them. Now he gets insulting for no reason---where does this attitude come from and why? I've never seen FT act like this: On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT. I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less. On September 22 2013 18:11 FirmTofu wrote:
(Page 35) I don't know if OO is joking with some of his posts or he actually believes the shit he's spewing. Judgement is being reserved. On September 22 2013 18:32 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:27 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT. I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less. So you are posting useless shit casting me in a scummy light and then are very clearly NOT calling me scum. What the fuck is it with bad players attacking me this game. You need to get off your high horse and step back for a minute. I refuse to indulge you and these ad hominem attacks. Maybe my meta argument is bullshit. Maybe I am completely wrong. That doesn't mean you wave your dick around like you rule the thread and every player is a piece of shit compared to you. If you want to discuss why my thoughts are poorly reasoned, I willing to have a go at it. I will not, however, humor you if you continue to waste my time in this manner. ^^That one I kinda liked lol, 'cause he's right. On September 22 2013 18:58 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:50 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I find it odd that FT thought I was scummy for being defensive. And then when I am defensive towards him he thinks I am townie. There is a real inconsistency in his narrative IMO. I think a scum Firm Tofu would ABSOLUTELY not want to get into it with me. Further his originally thread summary was really really off. Actually I have had some thoughts. I may construct a longer post shortly about this if you'll give me some time. I would like to clarify my intentions here. The inconsistent narrative was deliberate. Why? You are active. Accusing you allows me to read you better. Think rayn's style of play. By posting an inconsistent narrative, I can gauge your response as being townie or scummy in a quick, direct, and efficient fashion. Furthermore, I can assess the extent to which you are actually scumhunting. The fact that you noticed the inconsistency makes you look more town to me. You want to find scum. You're looking for inconsistencies.
I can assure you, scum FirmTofu would buddy you until you die. You'll just have to take my word on that bit. This appears to me like a flat-out lie. Could be either alignment caught in a lie though---I have lied as town to dispel suspicions because it's often easier than trying to explain that you were just being dumb, especially to someone tenacious like Axlegreaser, for example. Then we have his exit: On September 22 2013 19:14 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:13 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 19:11 FirmTofu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2013 19:09 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:07 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:00 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 18:51 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I know this isn't addressed to me, but I would like to take a moment to address it. I hope you don't mind. As scum, I would use DP as a tool. I know DP is respected in this community and has the ability to sway lynches in his direction regardless of alignment. Assuming DP is town and I am scum, I would latch on to DP and win his trust. Then, I would exchange reads about other players and slowly convince him to vote whoever I wanted him to vote, essentially leading him astray. As town, I am more interested in determining his alignment. You can see which path I chose to take. Yeah dunno.. your posting is really reading forced to me. That alone doesn't make you scum. I can't follow the above though, regardless of forced/non-forced consciousness... its a lot of talk. As scum I would manipulate player X to be my puppet.. etc etc Very few scum players have that skillset to proactively choose a player to influence; most adapt to the situation as it unfolds. So the above reads as total bullshit to me. Fair enough. I'll give you an example. An extremely relevant one at that.VE has basically been defending DP the entire game. DP, naturally, seems to have no qualms with VE. In fact, I'm fairly sure DP thinks VE is town.Assuming this is true, we must conclude that DP will give VE's opinion more weight compared to the average player in this thread. After all, VE is his town read and town are usually more reliable than scum. If VE is able to convince DP to change his vote on ANYONE, he has already demonstrated that his buddying allowed him to influence DP's vote. In the event that VE is scum, VE can use DP as the voice for his vote, allowing DP to take the brunt of the blame when things go wrong. OK, lets make this relevant. DP ?might? think VE is town. What does FT think VE is? I think it's fairly obvious. I think VE is scum. OK, are you going to lay down a vote. Or is there someone else scummier? I don't like voting when there is still information to read. While VE is my strongest scum read at page 40, he may not be at page 58. On September 22 2013 19:22 FirmTofu wrote:
@DP
As much as I would love to continue to argue with you, I refuse to. I'm not going to spam the thread with an argument between (probably) two townies that will serve no purpose in aiding our quest to find scum. If you have qualms about me, we can address them at a later date.
I'm enjoying this day 1. This is new. I will be sleeping now. Don't bother asking me anything until tomorrow. This looks like he just gave up. Again, the issue is it's possible as scum OR town. Arguing with people becomes exhausting as town, especially if we believe that FT is telling the truth about his own beliefs. Obvious reasons for ditching here as scum, if he is. I think I'm still overall null with a slight scum-lean on him just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment. I don't think his attack on DP is as suicidal as Geript's though (which is why I have my townread on geript) because it is my belief that whereas Geript knows exactly what he is doing and why, FT doesn't when attacking DP, so the scum possibility is there. Thoughts, Marv? Honestly I have very little to add to your whole analysis because I agree on all of it. just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment.This is the nub of it, isn't it. How do we apportion the likelihood of this behaviour to scum/town. Is talking bullcrap about how DP usually plays coming from a townie just saying things, or mafia fabricating? Is his about-turn on DP scum trying to get out of a situation they dumbly got themselves into, or town just changing their mind weirdly? As it stands I don't think I'd be unhappy with a FT lynch, but I'm not sure how confident I'd be on it. My issue is I don't think I like any of the other candidates enough today to vote for them. If I'm 55/ 45 on FT that's better than the...nothing I get from Mocsta or townreads I get from Ray and LM. So im null. and LM/CR are town. OK. Whats the read on VE? + Show Spoiler +Dude, are you still butthurt I creamed you in your first newbie? Since then, you always complain you can't read me. jeez.
P.S. its pretty simple. If im suspicious of everyone, Im usually town. If im suspicous of one or two ppl and then relentlessly tunnel until proven wrong.. then im usually scum.. it really is that simple Is this an Aussie thing to tell people about how they can or can't read you based on met in the current game you're playing with them? lol Mocsta I'm not butthurt, I've honestly just never been able to read you. I did mean to have a look at VE but I got sidetracked. The heuristic usually goes lazy VE = scum VE----is that what we're dealing with here? I am not sure. I dont know how to read him by meta.
My recollection of a town VE is from Mafia LX or a town VE from The Game. I dunno, a town spokesperson that does stupid shit. We definitely dont have that VE this game; but I also dont know if that means anything.
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On September 23 2013 09:46 yamato77 wrote:
If sentinel's vote stays on me, I will gladly switch to him and murder him as well.
Murdered is something I don't intend on
##unvote
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Man this is a mess.
I'll do this later. Procrastination ftw. ^^
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On September 23 2013 10:03 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:52 Zaragon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Need sleep. I'm going to
##Vote VisceraEyes
him being my strongest read from early on. That combined with what looked to me like a deliberately constructed emotional level, and then fading out of the game. Have a look at him again if he doesn't show something very good before the deadline.
LoneMeow caving under pressure... I'm not sure, it's more likely to happen as scum, but the way it happened is how I'd imagine it would happen for town. I don't mind a lynch if he's not even going to say "I'm town" but since I'll be asleep for the deadline I'm not going to try to add momentum on that with a vote now. Chairman Ray seems to be playing the way he did in town in that previous game, so considering his personality, there isn't that much scummy about him to me (even his vote reasoning looks similar to the game he was town, as far as I can see)+ Show Spoiler +
I've tried to look at Mocsta more carefully, but the personality reads on him don't fit with my picture of him--I see him as gruff and relaxed. Looking at reads and his filter, I'm getting less clear town--by direction and substance--but not scum. I'm not sure how much to trust other people's meta on this, but certainly not enough for my vote at this point
Sentinel was never a great case I think, but he's still leaning a bit scum for me
I'll hang around a few minutes if someone has points or questions for me, but please make it short and sweet if so
Really? I just made a post looking at the votes. I think they are quite different. Can you please detail the similarities.
Jump-on vote, relatively spur of the moment feel, same time interval. True, his follow-up is weaker this time, I didn't spot that.
The way he breaks his phrases is non-indicative to me, as it relates to the specific circumstance.
Anyway, I'm off to bed, have a good evening, gents and ladies
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I'm gonna smoke, eat some icecream and reread. Marv disagrees with me on Yamato, and that's enough to make me
##Unvote
60 pages, ~3 hours. No biggie.
BBL homies. Smooches.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On September 23 2013 07:51 Chairman Ray wrote:
Unvoting LM as he's probably sleeping now
##Unvote
I'll brb in an hour or so
Very annoying to say the least.
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EPT
