Newbie Mini Mafia XLIV - Page 28

On July 14 2013 06:03 Umasi wrote:
Chrom, do you now think that StiM is town?

On July 14 2013 05:56 Chromatically wrote:
Kirby
Stim's case on Kirby takes a lot of stuff that's not scummy and says it is, but it also has good points (some of which are probably repeated here).

Here's what I don't like:
a) fluff about Sponge's first post
b) wishy-washy reads
c) lurker list
d) Stim interactions

a) fluff about Sponge's first post
A large amount of Kirby's early posting is talking about Sponge's pregame post and trying to get him to post it. He only starts doing this light pressure AFTER I start it.



Scum are always looking for some way to post so that they seem town without actually doing anything. This pregame thing is something VERY easy for scum to comment on and lightly push. He notices that I'm a little suspicious and seizes on it so that he can post something at all.

Notice how very lightly he's pressuring:



The first one is a conversational question, the second one is a suggestion. When I pressure someone I think is suspicious, I don't "suggest" things to them and tell them "what they ought to do". He doesn't actually care about getting the post, he just wants to look like he does.

b) wishy-washy reads




This is just generic wishy-washiness and unwillingness to commit to reads. Townies have at least some scum reads that they provide to the thread and push, at least a little. Kirby hasn't pushed a scumread all game. Kirby hasn't even had a scumread that he couldn't easily back out of. As scum, Kirby can easily justify a vote on anyone now because he doesn't have any reads out there.


c) lurker list

This should be pretty obvious, but lurker lists are scummy in general.

Everyone knows who hasn't posted. There's no reason to post something like this as town, it's totally useless.

Scum sometimes do stuff like this because they really really want to look useful. Scum think that lists like this will look pro town and give them something to post about so that they seem active.


d) Stim interactions


Kirby consoles Stim twice during the game. Read both of these (especially the second one), and ask yourself why does it seem like Kirby KNOWS that Stim is town?

Look at that second quote. "You won't play your best when you're tilting." There's not a HINT of doubt in that post that Stim is town. That's not something that you post to someone that you're even slightly suspicious of.

"Well this makes sense if he has a town read on Stim, right?"


Apart from the simple fact that he's trying to leave his options open to switch on the wagon later, this is COMPLETELY at odds with his subconscious attitude toward Stim in the previous conversation.

##Unvote
##Vote: jrkirby

On July 13 2013 10:47 jrkirby wrote:


Anyone think this could be a scumslip? He seems the kind that might want to subtly brag about it if he were scum.

On July 13 2013 13:21 jrkirby wrote:


Cool it dude. For all you know, the people voting for you could be scum trying to get you riled up. Just calm down, post reads, question things, and have a good game. You won't play your best when you're tilting. You're in no way doomed right now.

On July 14 2013 06:24 Chromatically wrote:
No no no, it's not an association at all. That's actually my favorite part of the whole thing.

If Kirby KNOWS that Stim is town, then he is 100% scum. That is a fact, not a preflip association.

Kirby's interactions with Stim make it seem like he either KNOWS, or he STRONGLY SUSPECTS that Stim is town. However, he doesn't suspect this at all, he has a null read.

On July 13 2013 09:53 Superfluous wrote:
I apologize for not answering sooner, the other forums I have played on move much slower and there arent 2 and a half pages of posts after being gone for just 3-4 hours. I would be annoyed at your pushing but I think in general its a good town move as it forces information out of people.

On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:


At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e.

On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:
Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though.

On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:
Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out.

On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:
In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet.

Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of.

On July 13 2013 23:56 Superfluous wrote:
I'd still like to here some more from Hzflank, cloud 9, night cat and other lurkers I've forgotten. Koshi and Gotard have euro time zones so it makes sense that they weren't active early on, and right now they are trying to contribute something so they're town reads for me.

On July 14 2013 00:38 hzflank wrote:
From what I can tell, your thought process was: Super thinks that Umasi is town and hzflank thinks Umasi was scummy, therefore Super thinks that hzflank is scummy. Now Super needs to add reasons for why he thinks hzflank is scummy because Super's read should not be based on that weak day 1 association.

You may notice that since the conversation really started to flow in the way that we want it to, I have not made many posts but every single post I have made is dedicated to finding scum. Yet, of all the people you could find scummy for posting distractions you chose me.

Please tell me where I am wrong? To be specific, I do not believe your reasons for having me as your biggest scum read and I want to understand how I actually came to be your biggest scum read.

On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards.

On July 14 2013 05:14 Superfluous wrote:
Admittedly I am giving reads more to get off my back than to help us. I'm trying to get reads, but nothing is super strong so I'm not going to jump to lynch someone. I would vote for xzavier right now because he's my strongest read, but thats because we have to vote not because I feel he's 100% scum It really hurts us to lynch town day one, which is the same reason I brought up the idea of no lynching, and the same reason I'm trying to relieve pressure from myself.

On July 14 2013 07:04 Chromatically wrote:
Trying to stay alive isn't a scumtell though. Let's say that you come back to the thread and see a case on you. Your forat order of business, as would be any townie's, is to defend yourself.

I really think that Super is just new. His posting doesn't feel like scum. He makes an honest effort to scumhunt, he points out things that he thinks are scummy (ex: one random sponge post).

On July 14 2013 07:11 Koshi wrote:
@hzflank
That is a really impressing post. I would give you a cookie but I will give you this instead.
##Vote: Superfluous

I also like the kirby case but kirby hasn't posted in the last 20 hours. So I am reluctant to put my vote on him. Kirby has proven that he can make big analytical posts or at least is willing to do so. He has proven that he can pick up on 1 scummier sentence in a big convincing pro town post. So I would like to give kirby the chance to do this before I put my vote on him.

On July 14 2013 07:22 hzflank wrote:


When the game starts on day 1 the first order of business is not to stay alive, but to create an environment in which scum can be found. The second order of business is to find scum. If you do these things then you do not have to worry about staying alive. While Super may be new he does say that he has experience on other forums. There was not a case on him, only some very light pressure. There was no need for him to defend himself rather than looking for scum.

I feel like I gave him a chance to explain his reads and he failed to do so. He did not have to give me reasoning that I fully agree with, he just had to show me reasoning that I can understand from a town point of view. It is very scummy that he avoided the questions and later gave answers that I cannot understand.

He says that Xzavier is his current scum read, which is obviously a reasonable town position at this point. Super's reasoning there is understandable, but has not yet attempted to strengthen the read. What does he expect people to do about gut feelings?

I cannot see anything in Super's filter that looks town.

On July 14 2013 07:30 Nightcat99 wrote:
Just want to give an update on my situation, I am quiet busy today but i will catch up on everything before the first day ends. Since I will be home on Sunday about 2 pm est as long as the plane doesn't screw me over again.

I would like to vote after I reread everything again that,s nt on my tiny phone screen but as far as stim's situation , I feel that he's either a bad mafia or a angry townie , so either way not worth a vote now because now everyone will put an watchful eye on him.

On July 14 2013 06:52 hzflank wrote:
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's SuperScum.

Super introduces himself as a player who understands that people cannot always respond to posts quickly and as a player who thinks that applying pressure on other players is a good thing. His later posts do not exhibit these traits at all.



Before even starting to scum-hunt, Super is concerned with self-preservation. He is not even interested in getting good conversation flowing to produce information. Self-preservation comes first.



One of the first things that Super says comes to his mind is that Cloud has not posted yet. Why is this the next thing that Super thinks of, after self-preservation? He later gives a reason but I cannot understand how he arrived at that train of thought.





Next Super says that he has not yet scum-hunted, but so far I was his biggest scum read. That would be fine if his reads were fluid after he actually did some scum-hunting. As we will see later though, his read on me persists until I really hammer home the point that there is no good town motivation for his read on me.

Also, why is he so worried that posting this early read might push him to being lynched? I think that it is because he already knows that he cannot actually justify his read on me.



Next, Super calls me a lurker but says that the other Europeans should be excused for not posting much. I had already made several posts at this point and am a European myself.

He says that he wants to see more from me, but does not give any indication of what he wants to see. When I later make posts directed towards him he completely ignores then as though they are invisible. If he had a scum read on me and wanted to see more, why does he not reply to my posts?





Next Super says that he still thinks I am scum. His reasons are that I have not posted anything which contributed to finding scum. I may be biased on this point, but I do not see how a town Super could say that I had not been contributing. Note that I stopped playing at around 2 AM my time last night, but Super seems to think that it was scummy of me to stop posting. Why would a town player think that?



Now, Super is still more concerned with self-preservation that with finding scum. He also gently suggests that we should consider a no lynch. If a town player was under pressure at this point they would push a scum-read as hard as they could, but they would not try for a no lynch. Super switches his primary scum read from me to Xzavier, without ever saying why I suddenly became less scummy or Xzavier became more scummy (as Xzavier has not posted in a long time). This is still self-preservation without pushing a scum target with any significant force.



To conclude, Super's priorities seem to be
1) Stay Alive
2) Find a person to vote for
3) Find justifications for voting

That is how scum plays and that is not how town plays.

##Vote: Superfluous

On July 14 2013 05:56 Chromatically wrote:
Kirby
Stim's case on Kirby takes a lot of stuff that's not scummy and says it is, but it also has good points (some of which are probably repeated here).

Here's what I don't like:
a) fluff about Sponge's first post
b) wishy-washy reads
c) lurker list
d) Stim interactions