EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XLIII - Page 16
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
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Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
On June 25 2013 02:27 Alakaslam wrote: Awesome point, work lull so SPICY AND ONEGU YOU ARE SCUMBUDDIES DEFENSE YOURSELFS + Show Spoiler + look at me everyone, LOOK at me and see that I am town! Press me, press me hard because 1. That's how I get better at town and 2. Because I am drawing suspicion as town which doesn't help town. And therefore, in the interests of town, if I am scum I am suiciding! THESE ARE MY TOWNREADS. DO AS THEY DO! Nonetheless, defend yourselves. You've both been attacked (especially you, spicy!). I have made a baseless claim of guilt on you two, nevertheless defend it. Why should I think what I do? Prove yourselves town, then lead it! LETS GO SEE YOU AFTER WORK Pure spam. nothing here to respond to. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On June 25 2013 02:27 Alakaslam wrote: Awesome point, work lull so SPICY AND ONEGU YOU ARE SCUMBUDDIES DEFENSE YOURSELFS + Show Spoiler + look at me everyone, LOOK at me and see that I am town! Press me, press me hard because 1. That's how I get better at town and 2. Because I am drawing suspicion as town which doesn't help town. And therefore, in the interests of town, if I am scum I am suiciding! THESE ARE MY TOWNREADS. DO AS THEY DO! Nonetheless, defend yourselves. You've both been attacked (especially you, spicy!). I have made a baseless claim of guilt on you two, nevertheless defend it. Why should I think what I do? Prove yourselves town, then lead it! LETS GO SEE YOU AFTER WORK Umm not sure where you are going with this... I dont understand half your posts, but if you give me reasons you think I am scum I will be happy to defend myself and adress you points. About Hz he doesnt post alot of fluff unless you want to count the NN posts, I also just filtered him when you asked and saw him make scum reads. Some of it maybe sheeping but I dont think scum would do that to much, at least he is creating scum reads with some thought behind them. I see newbie town who isnt confident in his reads. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
I figured it out Alakaslam is Umasi's cocaine dealer!!! | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
That's a pretty flimsy case that Chrom has made against me. There is no reason to think that I would make a casual opening post when by the time I joined the game there were already five other casual opening posts. I think the game strategy stuff (regarding NN) was as good a discussion as any as it is actually important to the game. Up until this point I have in no way cared as to whether or not I look scummy, and since I got my scum read from Aquanim's first post it made sense for me to wait until there was a case made against someone before I posted this. It's about time that the scum try to get a wagon rolling and I am happy enough for that wagon to be on me, so I will even help scum Chromatically by ensuring that scum Aquanim also votes for me. Here is my take on the important parts of day 1 so far: Hurricane is the first to discuss the NN claiming. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 11:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Ugh, let's avoid the 'should we lynch lurkers talk' shall we? I'm gonna go ahead and post the play I had written earlier this week analyzing this game from a pro-town perspective. If any of my analysis is off-base, please jump in and steer me back on track. Pre-written segment starts now: Alright, chums. First let me state that in NO WAY is the following message a call for a mass claim. If you are the Parity Cop (assuming you even exist), DO NOT SAY SO. In fact, if you're our town's parity cop, it's probably better if you appear to ignore what I'm about to say completely. Same goes for Trackers and Watchers. DO NOT CLAIM. But read carefully, because you are a big part of whether we succeed or fail (whether we follow my plan or not). Now everyone, pay attention: Looking over the roles, the extremely juicy pro-town potential jumped right off the page at me, as I hope it did to many of you. Trackers can tell us if a person visits someone. Pretty good, but not nearly as good as the Watcher, who can pick a person and sees all who visit them. Obviously, this means we can try to guess the guy who's going to be mafia-killed, and we have a couple shots at seeing if he either gets visited, or manage to Track the mafia member who happens to be tagged to do the deed. Not great odds on either, but still better than nothing. My plan utilizes each role to their maximum potential. Because we are not guaranteed to have a Tracker, Watcher, or even a Parity Cop, it's important that for the roles we DO get, we use them efficiently. The Watcher needs to guess the target they think will be mafia-killed tonight. This is up to your judgement, but I'll make a recommendation later today. The fun part comes with the Tracker and the Nosy Neighbor (and by extension Parity Cop). The Tracker should secretly track the Nosy Neighbor. AGAIN, MR. OR MRS. TRACKER: DO NOT CLAIM NOW. If we have a Nosy Neighbor, they should claim IMMEDIATELY. Once the Tracker can confirm that the Nosy Neighbor is in fact moving around at night, but not visiting the person who got Mafia-killed, WE CAN ESTABLISH HIM AS TOWN. This is a big deal. The Parity Cop can then tag the confirmed Nosy Neighbor as Town and start measuring up suspects against them. If he gets a 'Different' claim, the other person is Scum. If he gets 'Same', they are town. I can elaborate further, but I feel like you can all piece together whatever holes are out there without me holding your hand even further. This is an extremely pro-town set-up (assuming there aren't a bunch of red herrings in which case, Hi I'm sponge, and I just gave you all the book on me.) and I'd like to move fast before mafia can organize their thoughts in their private little forum. If we move fast, and force independent action, they lose one of their many advantages. I wont go into my game theory here but can do in another post if people request, however I absolutely believe that the NN declaring is something that the scum would want. There were several people that disagreed with NN claiming, but importantly no one declared Hurricane to be especially scummy for making the post. Aquanim then makes a first post that is clever scum. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote: You wound me. Regarding claims I'm of the opinion that the Nosy Neighbour/Alpha 5 should claim now. This role is similar to a Miller in that it isn't useful for town at all, and could seriously backfire if they are watched/tracked/whatever by a townie. I don't see any downside to a Nosy Neighbour claiming, the worst case is that they play obvtown, get shot, and draw a shot away from actual town power roles. The biggest reason a Nosy Neighbour should claim now is that it eliminates the possibility of a scum fake-claiming it later if he is caught shooting/using a PR on someone. If we establish that a Nosy Neighbour should claim now, anyone claiming it later is caught scum. Obviously, scum can claim Nosy Neighbour so whoever claims it isn't confirmed town by any means. No other power roles should claim, that would be daft. (However, scum should feel free to claim their roles.) Regarding scum Current scumread is Chromatically for two reasons. 1) I don't like the feel of his initial posts. Making troll-cases to get the game rolling is fine, I have no objection to that in as of itself, but there's a certain nit-picking quality to his posts that feels wrong to me. Trying to read something into someone not posting for five minutes is ludicrous. 2) He's been doing a lot of asking other people for their reads while offering nothing even approaching one of his own. ##Vote: Chromatically Aquanim hopes that he can get a few town to agree that the NN should out themselves. Then his scumbuddies can also agree and the NN might claim, giving an advantage to the scum team. Since Hurricane did not get a hard time, Aquanim does not think that he will be lynched for being the first to make the suggestion. Aquanim is fairly sure that when the time comes he can rely on Hurricanes vote for NN to claim, so he really only needs two more town votes, which makes it worth a try. Aqua's scumbuddy, Chromatically, has already said that the NN claiming is a bad idea. Aqua sees a chance to make a good play here and throws a weak vote on Chromatically. It is still early in the day and there is little chance of a wagon forming. Aqua never intends to leave his vote on Chromatically, but is just creating some distance from him so that it wont look suspicious if Chromatically should change his mind about the NN claim. Ofcourse there is the added bonus that if Chromatically should later flip scum then Aqua can refer to his very first post and claim to be confirmed town. Next, FirmTofu defends my weak read on him. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 13:34 FirmTofu wrote: You are taking an extremely simplified approach to analyze my actions. I am not "attacking" or "defending" anyone. I am stating my opinions on how various people are behaving. If you can't distinguish between the two, we have a serious problem here. You can't say that my "defenses" are out of place without even looking at the context of the situation. Read my quote, see if it makes sense to you, and form an opinion based on that. Furthermore, this post is as scummy as scummy gets. You state that you can side with me as I pursue a lynch on Spicy(see 1), but you also consider me to be the scummiest player(see 2). How are these two chain of thoughts compatible? By this point I suspect that either Aqua or Chromatically might put their vote on me, but I cannot say so prematurely, especially since Aqua still has his vote on Chrom. After a little consideration I decide to lurk for a while, as I wanted Chrom to make a post of some sort before I made this claim. Next we have: On June 24 2013 15:21 Aquanim wrote: @FirmTofu: What is your read on Chromatically? So right after Aqua realised my above mistake with Firm, he asks Firm for his read on Chrom (who aqua still has his vote on). He is either looking for Firm to give him a good reason to think Chrom is town, or he is looking for Firm to give a scum read on me, or both. Either way, Firm is the most likely town to get onto my wagon at this point, so it is good setup. Here we have Aqua ask Firm again for their opinion on his case on Chromatically. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 16:26 Aquanim wrote: First, scum is unlikely to claim NN day 1 for fear of being counter-claimed. Somebody who claims NN is obviously not confirmed town, but they're considerably more likely to be town. I have personally never seen a day-one miller claim (analogous to a NN, with different investigative rolls) end up being scum, and plenty end up being town. A miller/NN who is thus likely town and can thus play a strong, town-leading role is a HIGHER PRIORITY for scum to kill than a possible bluesnipe. Also, a day-one NN claim avoids two possibly disastrous situations later on: 1) An actual NN being seen visiting someone and being lynched for it. 2) Mafia fake-claiming NN after being seen visiting somebody. Auto-lynching any NN claim is bad for in the first case, treating NN as town is bad in the second case. A day one claim, before there's any desperate need for a scum to fake-claim it, fixes both of these. The gain in information which scum gets from a day-one NN claim IS NOT SIGNIFICANT. Even IF scum has a tracker, a NN claim reduces their pool of players to track by something like 10% (I haven't done the math but it's about that). And like I said, if the NN plays a good town game he becomes EVEN MORE IMPORTANT for scum to shoot. Scum knowing not to track the NN is less valuable than town knowing not to track him. I'm tired of trying to beat sense into y'all about this, and I'm tired of y'all calling me scum over a difference of opinion about game theory. Someone man up and vote me over this trash or start playing the game properly. The other guy's plan was bad for other reasons. In this case, however, I am right, the rest of you are wrong, and I am trying to persuade you of that. I'm starting to feel like this is a waste of time though. My case. On Chromatically. Opinions please. Remember that this was the case that Aqua put forth in his very first post of the game. It was not a strong case and he knew it would never stand, so it was a good way to both give people a town read on his scumbuddy and also create some distance within the scum team. Firm responds that he thinks Chrom is town, which is exactly what Aqua wanted and why he asked him twice. Aqua has now gotten Firm (the person he thinks he can get to vote for me) to say that the scumbuddy that Aqua has his vote on (Chrom) is town. Well played Aqua. Shorlty after, Aqua posts this + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 17:04 Aquanim wrote: I suppose that's a fair enough position to hold. I've personally found that my reads based on 'feelings' are often more accurate than those where I carefully assemble 'evidence'. This doesn't feel to me like the town Chromatic which I played with in Newbie XXXIII. Asking questions is a town-y kind of thing to do, I agree. However, in my mind it is only significantly town-y when there is an actual plan behind those questions. By comparison, Chromatic was asking pretty generic questions without any real point or follow-up. Asking other people for their reads while having shared none of his own does not sit well with me. Pointing out that some plan or another is stupid before anyone else does is a really cheap way of accumulating town-cred without committing to anything. Someone was going to shoot that plan down either way, so a scum player would have nothing to gain from not shooting it down. All this being said, I think that what he's done so far could plausibly be explained by a town mentality as well as a scum one. If he comes back tomorrow and starts playing a good town-game I'll be looking to lynch somebody else. For the meantime, though, my vote and intention stays. There he gets in that his read on Chrom is based on feelings rather than evidence. He is telling us that there is no good reason to suspect Chrom while he still has his vote on Chrom. He closed by saying that if Chrom starts to play a good town game then he will move his vote to someone else, which in this case will be the person that Chrom votes for because they are scumbuddies. Here Aqua mocks Firm for voting due to inactivity because part of their plan was that Firm would vote for me, and he wants to make sure that Firm will move his vote. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 19:35 Aquanim wrote: You're being voted because FirmTofu wasn't man enough to put his vote on somebody he thought would talk back. Don't worry about it, just read the thread and let us know who you think is suspicious. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on what's happened in the game so far sometime in the next few hours. Chromatically gets back online and makes this post: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 20:43 Chromatically wrote: Aqua, are you scum? Both of these things are towntells. Explain to me the scum motivation in getting discussion rolling early day 1, which was OBVIOUSLY the reason that I pressured Spicy (and it worked). Sorry, if you thought that it was "ludicrous", but it doesn't make me scum and you know it. If you wanted to know about someone, you could just asked me. I'm not just going to randomly post reads if I'm not going to push for their lynch, but I'll definitely tell you what I think of someone or who my scumreads are. Why wouldn't you ask me for my scumreads if you wanted them? Probably because that's not actually what you want at all. Someone else asked me for scumreads, and I posted mine right below your post, but you haven't reacted to that at all. Does this point still stand even after I've posted my scumreads? Or did your opinion not change at all for some reason? You also said: Oh, this feels more like the scum Chromatic from XXXI? I am very, very uncomfortable with you, Aqua, because you are usually very town from your first post. This game, you've done a lot of shitting up the thread with stuff about claims and Nns. I take that as: 'Okay Aqua, time to unvote me now because I am going to try to start a wagon on someone else and it would not look as good for you to move your vote directly from me to them'. Surprise surprise, in the very next post Aqua unvotes Chrom, which we all knew would happen after reading Aqua's very first post in this game (where he voted for Chrom). The most important line in this post by Aqua is: 'Those reads were pretty weak, I'd like to see more from you', because that is him paving the way for Chrom to begin the mis-lynch attempt. And then finally Chrom makes a case against me and votes. Now, it would be easier for me to vote if I had an individual scum read, but since I am fairly confident that both Aqua and Chrom are scum, I am going to vote for Chrom because I think doing so will force Aqua to take a very strong stance one way or the other. Chrom already has his vote on me, so if I vote Aqua then Chrom does not need to make a decision and can just leave his vote where it is. ##Vote: Chromatically | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On June 25 2013 02:53 hzflank wrote: I've been waiting for particular posts from Aquanim and Chromatically, which they have now made. That's a pretty flimsy case that Chrom has made against me. There is no reason to think that I would make a casual opening post when by the time I joined the game there were already five other casual opening posts. I think the game strategy stuff (regarding NN) was as good a discussion as any as it is actually important to the game. Up until this point I have in no way cared as to whether or not I look scummy, and since I got my scum read from Aquanim's first post it made sense for me to wait until there was a case made against someone before I posted this. It's about time that the scum try to get a wagon rolling and I am happy enough for that wagon to be on me, so I will even help scum Chromatically by ensuring that scum Aquanim also votes for me. Here is my take on the important parts of day 1 so far: Hurricane is the first to discuss the NN claiming. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 11:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Ugh, let's avoid the 'should we lynch lurkers talk' shall we? I'm gonna go ahead and post the play I had written earlier this week analyzing this game from a pro-town perspective. If any of my analysis is off-base, please jump in and steer me back on track. Pre-written segment starts now: Alright, chums. First let me state that in NO WAY is the following message a call for a mass claim. If you are the Parity Cop (assuming you even exist), DO NOT SAY SO. In fact, if you're our town's parity cop, it's probably better if you appear to ignore what I'm about to say completely. Same goes for Trackers and Watchers. DO NOT CLAIM. But read carefully, because you are a big part of whether we succeed or fail (whether we follow my plan or not). Now everyone, pay attention: Looking over the roles, the extremely juicy pro-town potential jumped right off the page at me, as I hope it did to many of you. Trackers can tell us if a person visits someone. Pretty good, but not nearly as good as the Watcher, who can pick a person and sees all who visit them. Obviously, this means we can try to guess the guy who's going to be mafia-killed, and we have a couple shots at seeing if he either gets visited, or manage to Track the mafia member who happens to be tagged to do the deed. Not great odds on either, but still better than nothing. My plan utilizes each role to their maximum potential. Because we are not guaranteed to have a Tracker, Watcher, or even a Parity Cop, it's important that for the roles we DO get, we use them efficiently. The Watcher needs to guess the target they think will be mafia-killed tonight. This is up to your judgement, but I'll make a recommendation later today. The fun part comes with the Tracker and the Nosy Neighbor (and by extension Parity Cop). The Tracker should secretly track the Nosy Neighbor. AGAIN, MR. OR MRS. TRACKER: DO NOT CLAIM NOW. If we have a Nosy Neighbor, they should claim IMMEDIATELY. Once the Tracker can confirm that the Nosy Neighbor is in fact moving around at night, but not visiting the person who got Mafia-killed, WE CAN ESTABLISH HIM AS TOWN. This is a big deal. The Parity Cop can then tag the confirmed Nosy Neighbor as Town and start measuring up suspects against them. If he gets a 'Different' claim, the other person is Scum. If he gets 'Same', they are town. I can elaborate further, but I feel like you can all piece together whatever holes are out there without me holding your hand even further. This is an extremely pro-town set-up (assuming there aren't a bunch of red herrings in which case, Hi I'm sponge, and I just gave you all the book on me.) and I'd like to move fast before mafia can organize their thoughts in their private little forum. If we move fast, and force independent action, they lose one of their many advantages. I wont go into my game theory here but can do in another post if people request, however I absolutely believe that the NN declaring is something that the scum would want. There were several people that disagreed with NN claiming, but importantly no one declared Hurricane to be especially scummy for making the post. Aquanim then makes a first post that is clever scum. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote: You wound me. Regarding claims I'm of the opinion that the Nosy Neighbour/Alpha 5 should claim now. This role is similar to a Miller in that it isn't useful for town at all, and could seriously backfire if they are watched/tracked/whatever by a townie. I don't see any downside to a Nosy Neighbour claiming, the worst case is that they play obvtown, get shot, and draw a shot away from actual town power roles. The biggest reason a Nosy Neighbour should claim now is that it eliminates the possibility of a scum fake-claiming it later if he is caught shooting/using a PR on someone. If we establish that a Nosy Neighbour should claim now, anyone claiming it later is caught scum. Obviously, scum can claim Nosy Neighbour so whoever claims it isn't confirmed town by any means. No other power roles should claim, that would be daft. (However, scum should feel free to claim their roles.) Regarding scum Current scumread is Chromatically for two reasons. 1) I don't like the feel of his initial posts. Making troll-cases to get the game rolling is fine, I have no objection to that in as of itself, but there's a certain nit-picking quality to his posts that feels wrong to me. Trying to read something into someone not posting for five minutes is ludicrous. 2) He's been doing a lot of asking other people for their reads while offering nothing even approaching one of his own. ##Vote: Chromatically Aquanim hopes that he can get a few town to agree that the NN should out themselves. Then his scumbuddies can also agree and the NN might claim, giving an advantage to the scum team. Since Hurricane did not get a hard time, Aquanim does not think that he will be lynched for being the first to make the suggestion. Aquanim is fairly sure that when the time comes he can rely on Hurricanes vote for NN to claim, so he really only needs two more town votes, which makes it worth a try. Aqua's scumbuddy, Chromatically, has already said that the NN claiming is a bad idea. Aqua sees a chance to make a good play here and throws a weak vote on Chromatically. It is still early in the day and there is little chance of a wagon forming. Aqua never intends to leave his vote on Chromatically, but is just creating some distance from him so that it wont look suspicious if Chromatically should change his mind about the NN claim. Ofcourse there is the added bonus that if Chromatically should later flip scum then Aqua can refer to his very first post and claim to be confirmed town. Next, FirmTofu defends my weak read on him. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 13:34 FirmTofu wrote: You are taking an extremely simplified approach to analyze my actions. I am not "attacking" or "defending" anyone. I am stating my opinions on how various people are behaving. If you can't distinguish between the two, we have a serious problem here. You can't say that my "defenses" are out of place without even looking at the context of the situation. Read my quote, see if it makes sense to you, and form an opinion based on that. Furthermore, this post is as scummy as scummy gets. You state that you can side with me as I pursue a lynch on Spicy(see 1), but you also consider me to be the scummiest player(see 2). How are these two chain of thoughts compatible? By this point I suspect that either Aqua or Chromatically might put their vote on me, but I cannot say so prematurely, especially since Aqua still has his vote on Chrom. After a little consideration I decide to lurk for a while, as I wanted Chrom to make a post of some sort before I made this claim. Next we have: So right after Aqua realised my above mistake with Firm, he asks Firm for his read on Chrom (who aqua still has his vote on). He is either looking for Firm to give him a good reason to think Chrom is town, or he is looking for Firm to give a scum read on me, or both. Either way, Firm is the most likely town to get onto my wagon at this point, so it is good setup. Here we have Aqua ask Firm again for their opinion on his case on Chromatically. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 16:26 Aquanim wrote: First, scum is unlikely to claim NN day 1 for fear of being counter-claimed. Somebody who claims NN is obviously not confirmed town, but they're considerably more likely to be town. I have personally never seen a day-one miller claim (analogous to a NN, with different investigative rolls) end up being scum, and plenty end up being town. A miller/NN who is thus likely town and can thus play a strong, town-leading role is a HIGHER PRIORITY for scum to kill than a possible bluesnipe. Also, a day-one NN claim avoids two possibly disastrous situations later on: 1) An actual NN being seen visiting someone and being lynched for it. 2) Mafia fake-claiming NN after being seen visiting somebody. Auto-lynching any NN claim is bad for in the first case, treating NN as town is bad in the second case. A day one claim, before there's any desperate need for a scum to fake-claim it, fixes both of these. The gain in information which scum gets from a day-one NN claim IS NOT SIGNIFICANT. Even IF scum has a tracker, a NN claim reduces their pool of players to track by something like 10% (I haven't done the math but it's about that). And like I said, if the NN plays a good town game he becomes EVEN MORE IMPORTANT for scum to shoot. Scum knowing not to track the NN is less valuable than town knowing not to track him. I'm tired of trying to beat sense into y'all about this, and I'm tired of y'all calling me scum over a difference of opinion about game theory. Someone man up and vote me over this trash or start playing the game properly. The other guy's plan was bad for other reasons. In this case, however, I am right, the rest of you are wrong, and I am trying to persuade you of that. I'm starting to feel like this is a waste of time though. My case. On Chromatically. Opinions please. Remember that this was the case that Aqua put forth in his very first post of the game. It was not a strong case and he knew it would never stand, so it was a good way to both give people a town read on his scumbuddy and also create some distance within the scum team. Firm responds that he thinks Chrom is town, which is exactly what Aqua wanted and why he asked him twice. Aqua has now gotten Firm (the person he thinks he can get to vote for me) to say that the scumbuddy that Aqua has his vote on (Chrom) is town. Well played Aqua. Shorlty after, Aqua posts this + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 17:04 Aquanim wrote: I suppose that's a fair enough position to hold. I've personally found that my reads based on 'feelings' are often more accurate than those where I carefully assemble 'evidence'. This doesn't feel to me like the town Chromatic which I played with in Newbie XXXIII. Asking questions is a town-y kind of thing to do, I agree. However, in my mind it is only significantly town-y when there is an actual plan behind those questions. By comparison, Chromatic was asking pretty generic questions without any real point or follow-up. Asking other people for their reads while having shared none of his own does not sit well with me. Pointing out that some plan or another is stupid before anyone else does is a really cheap way of accumulating town-cred without committing to anything. Someone was going to shoot that plan down either way, so a scum player would have nothing to gain from not shooting it down. All this being said, I think that what he's done so far could plausibly be explained by a town mentality as well as a scum one. If he comes back tomorrow and starts playing a good town-game I'll be looking to lynch somebody else. For the meantime, though, my vote and intention stays. There he gets in that his read on Chrom is based on feelings rather than evidence. He is telling us that there is no good reason to suspect Chrom while he still has his vote on Chrom. He closed by saying that if Chrom starts to play a good town game then he will move his vote to someone else, which in this case will be the person that Chrom votes for because they are scumbuddies. Here Aqua mocks Firm for voting due to inactivity because part of their plan was that Firm would vote for me, and he wants to make sure that Firm will move his vote. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 19:35 Aquanim wrote: You're being voted because FirmTofu wasn't man enough to put his vote on somebody he thought would talk back. Don't worry about it, just read the thread and let us know who you think is suspicious. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on what's happened in the game so far sometime in the next few hours. Chromatically gets back online and makes this post: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 20:43 Chromatically wrote: Aqua, are you scum? Both of these things are towntells. Explain to me the scum motivation in getting discussion rolling early day 1, which was OBVIOUSLY the reason that I pressured Spicy (and it worked). Sorry, if you thought that it was "ludicrous", but it doesn't make me scum and you know it. If you wanted to know about someone, you could just asked me. I'm not just going to randomly post reads if I'm not going to push for their lynch, but I'll definitely tell you what I think of someone or who my scumreads are. Why wouldn't you ask me for my scumreads if you wanted them? Probably because that's not actually what you want at all. Someone else asked me for scumreads, and I posted mine right below your post, but you haven't reacted to that at all. Does this point still stand even after I've posted my scumreads? Or did your opinion not change at all for some reason? You also said: Oh, this feels more like the scum Chromatic from XXXI? I am very, very uncomfortable with you, Aqua, because you are usually very town from your first post. This game, you've done a lot of shitting up the thread with stuff about claims and Nns. I take that as: 'Okay Aqua, time to unvote me now because I am going to try to start a wagon on someone else and it would not look as good for you to move your vote directly from me to them'. Surprise surprise, in the very next post Aqua unvotes Chrom, which we all knew would happen after reading Aqua's very first post in this game (where he voted for Chrom). The most important line in this post by Aqua is: 'Those reads were pretty weak, I'd like to see more from you', because that is him paving the way for Chrom to begin the mis-lynch attempt. And then finally Chrom makes a case against me and votes. Now, it would be easier for me to vote if I had an individual scum read, but since I am fairly confident that both Aqua and Chrom are scum, I am going to vote for Chrom because I think doing so will force Aqua to take a very strong stance one way or the other. Chrom already has his vote on me, so if I vote Aqua then Chrom does not need to make a decision and can just leave his vote where it is. ##Vote: Chromatically I almost agree with everything you said. The problem arises when you realize that the case you've made for aqua is a hell of a lot stronger than the case you've made for Chromatically. Is this something you have overlooked? Or are you deliberately weaving a story to pit town against one another? For the time being, it's hard to tell one way or the other, but I did enjoy reading. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On June 24 2013 21:49 Spicydinosaur wrote: @Aquanim I dont like your case against chrom. Our exchange in the beginning was just to get the ball rolling which worked and started generating some content. Its still early D1 but right now im feeling chrom as town. Looking at FirmTofu as possible scum target. His first post is pure spam that does nothing to generate discussion It wasn't pure spam, and I certainly hoped it would generate discussion. I knew I could not really say anything of substance at that point, so I decided to do something fun that would get people talking. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. When you look at this post and contrast it to some first few posts, you can clearly see that singling me out as a target is rather silly. On June 24 2013 21:49 Spicydinosaur wrote: I'm also not a huge fan of his stance on meta use. He claims that he doesn't want to use meta which would be fine on its own, but here he is using the argument to ignore evidence. He claims I'm scummy because i am defensive when accused of being scum. I'm not sure this qualifies for an argument against me. My belief that the game should stay in the game is merely a philosophical one and has absolutely nothing to do with my alignment. You can use it against me to form your weak case for lynching me, but it isn't going to convince anyone. On June 24 2013 21:49 Spicydinosaur wrote: He acknowledges that it could just be my personality, yet when I link past games to show exactly that, he ignores it. At this point he just backs off his scum claim. I wasn't ignoring it, I was reiterating my aforementioned stance on using prior games to influence future ones. You are also just listing my actions and not commenting on how they seem scummy to you. I'm not sure what is scummy here. On June 24 2013 21:49 Spicydinosaur wrote: Next up is the lurker list post which doesnt tell us anything new and just clutters up the thread. We all know who has/hasnt been posting as the filter button is a click away. Yes, the bbcode got messed up. However, I had quoted numerous things prior to that quote that didn't have the bbcode messed up. To read into an honest mistake like that as a deliberate ploy is rather silly. I wanted to draw attention to the players who had not yet spoken, that was all. I didn't ask anyone to quote my bad bbcode, did I? They could have just as easily fixed it themselves, instead of placing the blame on me. This is such a silly argument that holds no substance. On June 24 2013 21:49 Spicydinosaur wrote: Lastly his vote on fyfy has been bugging me. It is clearly a pressure vote to get him active but why target fyfy over stim? Stim actually posted at the beginning of the day right after the day post, then dissipated. He was there reading the thread but not actively posting. This seems scummier than fyfy at the moment. Just because Stim seems scummier than fyfy doesn't mean fyfy shouldn't be voted. I wanted fyfy to talk and I wanted to draw attention to him. That was the reason for my vote. Nothing more, nothing less. We can address Stim now that I am awake. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
Now explain to me why this master scum plot is more likely than us both being town. Example: He closed by saying that if Chrom starts to play a good town game then he will move his vote to someone else, which in this case will be the person that Chrom votes for because they are scumbuddies. Or maybe his read actually will change if I start playing like town? You have absolutely no reason to believe that (unless you don't actually believe it). Why are you so confident that both of us are scum, if you haven't actually pointed out anything scummy that we've did? It makes no sense. I don't like your strawman on my case. You've chosen the weakest part to point out (no casual opening), but ignored the rest. It's most definitely not a flimsy case, especially compared to what you have here. Maybe you should go through it and answer my specific points. Why did you feel the need to repeat things that I had said? Most importantly, why are you so confident in calling Tofu town when he was YOUR SCUMREAD THAT YOU PRESSURED.+ Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 13:22 hzflank wrote: At the moment I am looking at FirmTofu. His chain of attack and defense looks like: Attack Chromatically Attack Xzavier Attack Hurricane Attack Spicy Defend Hurricane Defend Xzavier Attack Spicy For some reason the defenses seem a little out of place to me, especially the defense on Xzavier. On the other hand I believe Hurricane to be town as if he were scum then he is very brave to make the first post that he did. I am also very aware that I made an slightly extended attack on Spicy, who now seems to be FirmTofu's main target. I am wondering if he thinks Spicy is a good lynch target because he can count on my vote. He has also said twice that we should only use information from this game and not previous games. I think town should have access to as much information as possible in order to lynch scum. Therefore to me, FirmTofu is currently the scummiest player. I am very comfortable with where my vote is. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On June 25 2013 03:17 FirmTofu wrote: Just finished reading the thread. Thank you, hzflank. You are my hero. + Show Spoiler + On June 25 2013 02:53 hzflank wrote: I've been waiting for particular posts from Aquanim and Chromatically, which they have now made. That's a pretty flimsy case that Chrom has made against me. There is no reason to think that I would make a casual opening post when by the time I joined the game there were already five other casual opening posts. I think the game strategy stuff (regarding NN) was as good a discussion as any as it is actually important to the game. Up until this point I have in no way cared as to whether or not I look scummy, and since I got my scum read from Aquanim's first post it made sense for me to wait until there was a case made against someone before I posted this. It's about time that the scum try to get a wagon rolling and I am happy enough for that wagon to be on me, so I will even help scum Chromatically by ensuring that scum Aquanim also votes for me. Here is my take on the important parts of day 1 so far: Hurricane is the first to discuss the NN claiming. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 11:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Ugh, let's avoid the 'should we lynch lurkers talk' shall we? I'm gonna go ahead and post the play I had written earlier this week analyzing this game from a pro-town perspective. If any of my analysis is off-base, please jump in and steer me back on track. Pre-written segment starts now: Alright, chums. First let me state that in NO WAY is the following message a call for a mass claim. If you are the Parity Cop (assuming you even exist), DO NOT SAY SO. In fact, if you're our town's parity cop, it's probably better if you appear to ignore what I'm about to say completely. Same goes for Trackers and Watchers. DO NOT CLAIM. But read carefully, because you are a big part of whether we succeed or fail (whether we follow my plan or not). Now everyone, pay attention: Looking over the roles, the extremely juicy pro-town potential jumped right off the page at me, as I hope it did to many of you. Trackers can tell us if a person visits someone. Pretty good, but not nearly as good as the Watcher, who can pick a person and sees all who visit them. Obviously, this means we can try to guess the guy who's going to be mafia-killed, and we have a couple shots at seeing if he either gets visited, or manage to Track the mafia member who happens to be tagged to do the deed. Not great odds on either, but still better than nothing. My plan utilizes each role to their maximum potential. Because we are not guaranteed to have a Tracker, Watcher, or even a Parity Cop, it's important that for the roles we DO get, we use them efficiently. The Watcher needs to guess the target they think will be mafia-killed tonight. This is up to your judgement, but I'll make a recommendation later today. The fun part comes with the Tracker and the Nosy Neighbor (and by extension Parity Cop). The Tracker should secretly track the Nosy Neighbor. AGAIN, MR. OR MRS. TRACKER: DO NOT CLAIM NOW. If we have a Nosy Neighbor, they should claim IMMEDIATELY. Once the Tracker can confirm that the Nosy Neighbor is in fact moving around at night, but not visiting the person who got Mafia-killed, WE CAN ESTABLISH HIM AS TOWN. This is a big deal. The Parity Cop can then tag the confirmed Nosy Neighbor as Town and start measuring up suspects against them. If he gets a 'Different' claim, the other person is Scum. If he gets 'Same', they are town. I can elaborate further, but I feel like you can all piece together whatever holes are out there without me holding your hand even further. This is an extremely pro-town set-up (assuming there aren't a bunch of red herrings in which case, Hi I'm sponge, and I just gave you all the book on me.) and I'd like to move fast before mafia can organize their thoughts in their private little forum. If we move fast, and force independent action, they lose one of their many advantages. I wont go into my game theory here but can do in another post if people request, however I absolutely believe that the NN declaring is something that the scum would want. There were several people that disagreed with NN claiming, but importantly no one declared Hurricane to be especially scummy for making the post. Aquanim then makes a first post that is clever scum. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote: You wound me. Regarding claims I'm of the opinion that the Nosy Neighbour/Alpha 5 should claim now. This role is similar to a Miller in that it isn't useful for town at all, and could seriously backfire if they are watched/tracked/whatever by a townie. I don't see any downside to a Nosy Neighbour claiming, the worst case is that they play obvtown, get shot, and draw a shot away from actual town power roles. The biggest reason a Nosy Neighbour should claim now is that it eliminates the possibility of a scum fake-claiming it later if he is caught shooting/using a PR on someone. If we establish that a Nosy Neighbour should claim now, anyone claiming it later is caught scum. Obviously, scum can claim Nosy Neighbour so whoever claims it isn't confirmed town by any means. No other power roles should claim, that would be daft. (However, scum should feel free to claim their roles.) Regarding scum Current scumread is Chromatically for two reasons. 1) I don't like the feel of his initial posts. Making troll-cases to get the game rolling is fine, I have no objection to that in as of itself, but there's a certain nit-picking quality to his posts that feels wrong to me. Trying to read something into someone not posting for five minutes is ludicrous. 2) He's been doing a lot of asking other people for their reads while offering nothing even approaching one of his own. ##Vote: Chromatically Aquanim hopes that he can get a few town to agree that the NN should out themselves. Then his scumbuddies can also agree and the NN might claim, giving an advantage to the scum team. Since Hurricane did not get a hard time, Aquanim does not think that he will be lynched for being the first to make the suggestion. Aquanim is fairly sure that when the time comes he can rely on Hurricanes vote for NN to claim, so he really only needs two more town votes, which makes it worth a try. Aqua's scumbuddy, Chromatically, has already said that the NN claiming is a bad idea. Aqua sees a chance to make a good play here and throws a weak vote on Chromatically. It is still early in the day and there is little chance of a wagon forming. Aqua never intends to leave his vote on Chromatically, but is just creating some distance from him so that it wont look suspicious if Chromatically should change his mind about the NN claim. Ofcourse there is the added bonus that if Chromatically should later flip scum then Aqua can refer to his very first post and claim to be confirmed town. Next, FirmTofu defends my weak read on him. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 13:34 FirmTofu wrote: You are taking an extremely simplified approach to analyze my actions. I am not "attacking" or "defending" anyone. I am stating my opinions on how various people are behaving. If you can't distinguish between the two, we have a serious problem here. You can't say that my "defenses" are out of place without even looking at the context of the situation. Read my quote, see if it makes sense to you, and form an opinion based on that. Furthermore, this post is as scummy as scummy gets. You state that you can side with me as I pursue a lynch on Spicy(see 1), but you also consider me to be the scummiest player(see 2). How are these two chain of thoughts compatible? By this point I suspect that either Aqua or Chromatically might put their vote on me, but I cannot say so prematurely, especially since Aqua still has his vote on Chrom. After a little consideration I decide to lurk for a while, as I wanted Chrom to make a post of some sort before I made this claim. Next we have: So right after Aqua realised my above mistake with Firm, he asks Firm for his read on Chrom (who aqua still has his vote on). He is either looking for Firm to give him a good reason to think Chrom is town, or he is looking for Firm to give a scum read on me, or both. Either way, Firm is the most likely town to get onto my wagon at this point, so it is good setup. Here we have Aqua ask Firm again for their opinion on his case on Chromatically. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 16:26 Aquanim wrote: First, scum is unlikely to claim NN day 1 for fear of being counter-claimed. Somebody who claims NN is obviously not confirmed town, but they're considerably more likely to be town. I have personally never seen a day-one miller claim (analogous to a NN, with different investigative rolls) end up being scum, and plenty end up being town. A miller/NN who is thus likely town and can thus play a strong, town-leading role is a HIGHER PRIORITY for scum to kill than a possible bluesnipe. Also, a day-one NN claim avoids two possibly disastrous situations later on: 1) An actual NN being seen visiting someone and being lynched for it. 2) Mafia fake-claiming NN after being seen visiting somebody. Auto-lynching any NN claim is bad for in the first case, treating NN as town is bad in the second case. A day one claim, before there's any desperate need for a scum to fake-claim it, fixes both of these. The gain in information which scum gets from a day-one NN claim IS NOT SIGNIFICANT. Even IF scum has a tracker, a NN claim reduces their pool of players to track by something like 10% (I haven't done the math but it's about that). And like I said, if the NN plays a good town game he becomes EVEN MORE IMPORTANT for scum to shoot. Scum knowing not to track the NN is less valuable than town knowing not to track him. I'm tired of trying to beat sense into y'all about this, and I'm tired of y'all calling me scum over a difference of opinion about game theory. Someone man up and vote me over this trash or start playing the game properly. The other guy's plan was bad for other reasons. In this case, however, I am right, the rest of you are wrong, and I am trying to persuade you of that. I'm starting to feel like this is a waste of time though. My case. On Chromatically. Opinions please. Remember that this was the case that Aqua put forth in his very first post of the game. It was not a strong case and he knew it would never stand, so it was a good way to both give people a town read on his scumbuddy and also create some distance within the scum team. Firm responds that he thinks Chrom is town, which is exactly what Aqua wanted and why he asked him twice. Aqua has now gotten Firm (the person he thinks he can get to vote for me) to say that the scumbuddy that Aqua has his vote on (Chrom) is town. Well played Aqua. Shorlty after, Aqua posts this + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 17:04 Aquanim wrote: I suppose that's a fair enough position to hold. I've personally found that my reads based on 'feelings' are often more accurate than those where I carefully assemble 'evidence'. This doesn't feel to me like the town Chromatic which I played with in Newbie XXXIII. Asking questions is a town-y kind of thing to do, I agree. However, in my mind it is only significantly town-y when there is an actual plan behind those questions. By comparison, Chromatic was asking pretty generic questions without any real point or follow-up. Asking other people for their reads while having shared none of his own does not sit well with me. Pointing out that some plan or another is stupid before anyone else does is a really cheap way of accumulating town-cred without committing to anything. Someone was going to shoot that plan down either way, so a scum player would have nothing to gain from not shooting it down. All this being said, I think that what he's done so far could plausibly be explained by a town mentality as well as a scum one. If he comes back tomorrow and starts playing a good town-game I'll be looking to lynch somebody else. For the meantime, though, my vote and intention stays. There he gets in that his read on Chrom is based on feelings rather than evidence. He is telling us that there is no good reason to suspect Chrom while he still has his vote on Chrom. He closed by saying that if Chrom starts to play a good town game then he will move his vote to someone else, which in this case will be the person that Chrom votes for because they are scumbuddies. Here Aqua mocks Firm for voting due to inactivity because part of their plan was that Firm would vote for me, and he wants to make sure that Firm will move his vote. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 19:35 Aquanim wrote: You're being voted because FirmTofu wasn't man enough to put his vote on somebody he thought would talk back. Don't worry about it, just read the thread and let us know who you think is suspicious. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on what's happened in the game so far sometime in the next few hours. Chromatically gets back online and makes this post: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 20:43 Chromatically wrote: Aqua, are you scum? Both of these things are towntells. Explain to me the scum motivation in getting discussion rolling early day 1, which was OBVIOUSLY the reason that I pressured Spicy (and it worked). Sorry, if you thought that it was "ludicrous", but it doesn't make me scum and you know it. If you wanted to know about someone, you could just asked me. I'm not just going to randomly post reads if I'm not going to push for their lynch, but I'll definitely tell you what I think of someone or who my scumreads are. Why wouldn't you ask me for my scumreads if you wanted them? Probably because that's not actually what you want at all. Someone else asked me for scumreads, and I posted mine right below your post, but you haven't reacted to that at all. Does this point still stand even after I've posted my scumreads? Or did your opinion not change at all for some reason? You also said: Oh, this feels more like the scum Chromatic from XXXI? I am very, very uncomfortable with you, Aqua, because you are usually very town from your first post. This game, you've done a lot of shitting up the thread with stuff about claims and Nns. I take that as: 'Okay Aqua, time to unvote me now because I am going to try to start a wagon on someone else and it would not look as good for you to move your vote directly from me to them'. Surprise surprise, in the very next post Aqua unvotes Chrom, which we all knew would happen after reading Aqua's very first post in this game (where he voted for Chrom). The most important line in this post by Aqua is: 'Those reads were pretty weak, I'd like to see more from you', because that is him paving the way for Chrom to begin the mis-lynch attempt. And then finally Chrom makes a case against me and votes. Now, it would be easier for me to vote if I had an individual scum read, but since I am fairly confident that both Aqua and Chrom are scum, I am going to vote for Chrom because I think doing so will force Aqua to take a very strong stance one way or the other. Chrom already has his vote on me, so if I vote Aqua then Chrom does not need to make a decision and can just leave his vote where it is. ##Vote: Chromatically I almost agree with everything you said. The problem arises when you realize that the case you've made for aqua is a hell of a lot stronger than the case you've made for Chromatically. Is this something you have overlooked? Or are you deliberately weaving a story to pit town against one another? For the time being, it's hard to tell one way or the other, but I did enjoy reading. I realize that my post focused mostly on Aqua, but my case was that they were working as a team. Any case I have against Aqua alone would be so weak that even I would not vote based on it. If Aqua is scum and Chrom is town then Aqua is much more skilled at this that I am, as it would mean he made it look like he was working with Chrom without Chrom becoming aware of it, and that Chrom played right into his hands. I do not believe that, it makes my connections less likely, and going down that route is more likely to split the vote. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
On June 25 2013 02:46 Onegu wrote: About Hz he doesnt post alot of fluff unless you want to count the NN posts, I also just filtered him when you asked and saw him make scum reads. Some of it maybe sheeping but I dont think scum would do that to much, at least he is creating scum reads with some thought behind them. I see newbie town who isnt confident in his reads. Really? Here's some fluff: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 11:48 hzflank wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 11:47 Chromatically wrote: You don't buy his explanation? I am reading through the obs for that game now. I am very new to Mafia and used the recent Roulette game as my introduction to forum mafia, so I did not follow the previous newbie games. I will post again when I have spent more time reading that obs. On June 24 2013 11:49 hzflank wrote: Grr I need to preview before I post, messed that quote up. I am so used to being able to edit  On June 24 2013 12:01 hzflank wrote: That would be a risky claim though, as if we do end up lynching town I would rather lynch NN than any other town member. This is also why I do not think that NN should claim though. On June 24 2013 11:43 hzflank wrote: I noticed that too. This is Spicy's first post in his previous game, where he was town: That is quite a lot more content than his first post in this thread: On June 24 2013 12:18 hzflank wrote: Fair enough. To be honest I am surprised that you got those negative comments for your first post in that thread, but then what do I know? I do not think that talk of sheeping (I had already started my post when he posted his) on day one is useful, but I do believe you as to why your first post was just the two words. On June 24 2013 12:24 hzflank wrote: Another reason why I do not think NN should claim is that the scum ideally want to kill good town roles and the last townie they want to kill is the NN. While the NN does not claim they may be targeted for a night kill, and I would much prefer NN to be night killed that for a tracker etc to be night killed. All of these posts are either repeating me or just plain useless. They make up over half of his posting. Do you still think that he's unconfident noob town after his conspiracy theory? | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On June 25 2013 03:49 Chromatically wrote: Really? Here's some fluff: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 11:48 hzflank wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 11:47 Chromatically wrote: You don't buy his explanation? I am reading through the obs for that game now. I am very new to Mafia and used the recent Roulette game as my introduction to forum mafia, so I did not follow the previous newbie games. I will post again when I have spent more time reading that obs. On June 24 2013 11:49 hzflank wrote: Grr I need to preview before I post, messed that quote up. I am so used to being able to edit On June 24 2013 12:01 hzflank wrote: That would be a risky claim though, as if we do end up lynching town I would rather lynch NN than any other town member. This is also why I do not think that NN should claim though. On June 24 2013 11:43 hzflank wrote: I noticed that too. This is Spicy's first post in his previous game, where he was town: That is quite a lot more content than his first post in this thread: On June 24 2013 12:18 hzflank wrote: Fair enough. To be honest I am surprised that you got those negative comments for your first post in that thread, but then what do I know? I do not think that talk of sheeping (I had already started my post when he posted his) on day one is useful, but I do believe you as to why your first post was just the two words. On June 24 2013 12:24 hzflank wrote: Another reason why I do not think NN should claim is that the scum ideally want to kill good town roles and the last townie they want to kill is the NN. While the NN does not claim they may be targeted for a night kill, and I would much prefer NN to be night killed that for a tracker etc to be night killed. All of these posts are either repeating me or just plain useless. They make up over half of his posting. Do you still think that he's unconfident noob town after his conspiracy theory? Yes he isnt unconfident town, but still not going to put a scum read on him yet, he makes alot of connections and theories that just dont make any sense... But a few of the points on aqua are interesting. It is 2am here and my brain isn't working correctly so I will re read and post my conclusions in the morning. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On June 25 2013 03:44 hzflank wrote: I realize that my post focused mostly on Aqua, but my case was that they were working as a team. Any case I have against Aqua alone would be so weak that even I would not vote based on it. If Aqua is scum and Chrom is town then Aqua is much more skilled at this that I am, as it would mean he made it look like he was working with Chrom without Chrom becoming aware of it, and that Chrom played right into his hands. I do not believe that, it makes my connections less likely, and going down that route is more likely to split the vote. Regardless, I see your story as a plausible conspiracy theory, at best. Acting upon it without further evidence is dangerous. Most of your post relies on speculation about the player's true motives. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On June 25 2013 03:41 Chromatically wrote: What's really bizarre is how quickly Tofu agreed with this case. You'd better explain yourself too. I agreed with it in the sense that it was a plausible theory, not that it was particularly likely. For the record I have you both pegged as town and I think you are both wasting precious time accusing one another. His conspiracy idea arose mainly because you accused him of being scum. I see his post as a long-winded retaliation against your credibility to ensure that no one bandwagons him to oblivion. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
On June 25 2013 04:06 FirmTofu wrote: I agreed with it in the sense that it was a plausible theory, not that it was particularly likely. For the record I have you both pegged as town and I think you are both wasting precious time accusing one another. His conspiracy idea arose mainly because you accused him of being scum. I see his post as a long-winded retaliation against your credibility to ensure that no one bandwagons him to oblivion. Why do you think that he is town? Did you read my case? Where's the town motivation in making up a story purely to hurt my credibility? | ||
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fyfy
Singapore13 Posts
For now, I'd rather we lynch someone scummier. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On June 25 2013 03:41 Chromatically wrote: I don't like your strawman on my case. You've chosen the weakest part to point out (no casual opening), but ignored the rest. It's most definitely not a flimsy case, especially compared to what you have here. Maybe you should go through it and answer my specific points. Why did you feel the need to repeat things that I had said? Okay. On June 25 2013 00:58 Chromatically wrote: This is his first post in the thread. While it might not seem like a big deal, I don't like that he doesn't have a casual opening post. He was present at the beginning of the game, so why wouldn't he post something like everyone else did? It indicates that he is uncomfortable in the thread. When I checked after game start there were five or so 'hello' posts. I did not see the need to add my own 'hello' post. I have no reason to try to fit in by posting what the people before me did and I did not even consider whether a person could possibly feel uncomfortable when posting in the thread. It was game on and I was looking forward to it, so I got stuck in. On June 25 2013 00:58 Chromatically wrote: To avoid being seen as a lurker, hz siezes on the first thing that he can: he basically repeats what I said about Spicy. He's posting just for the sake of posting, because this post is purely a restatement of what has already been said. I wrote my post before reading yours. I wrote it in a text editor as I was comparing everyone's first posts with their first posts in a previous game. I noticed the difference In Spicy's post and copied the quotes. Then I refreshed the thread and saw your post, so I added in your quote to what I already had to show that I concurred. There was no real content in the thread at this point and I thought it might put a tiny bit of pressure on Spicy. You made this post, but I did not think anything of it at the time: The above becomes more significant when combined with your later pokes at me. I realised it after you asked for me scumreads and then later said that you had a scum read on me and would post more later. You thought that you could set me up from the start, but to be honest you started too early before you had anything substantial on me. On June 25 2013 00:58 Chromatically wrote: Seriously, look at this from a town perspective and find the point that this post makes. It literally says nothing. He posts stuff that has already been said because he's trying hard to look for any way to post without actually contributing. The point was to add my voice to the NN claim being a bad idea, to make it less likely for the to be a claim bandwagon. I also stated a slightly different reason than you did for the NN claim. Additionally, I do not think that the NN stuff is just fluff. It has generated more content in this thread than anything else. On June 25 2013 00:58 Chromatically wrote: "Oh, remember that I'm just a noob, so don't mind me if I don't try to find scum at all." Not inconceivable from town, but more likely from scum. Not relevant, especially since I was trying to find scum from the get go. It was in fact you that forced me to lurk for a brief period today as I was waiting for you to post again to confirm suspicion that I had. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On June 25 2013 04:06 FirmTofu wrote: I agreed with it in the sense that it was a plausible theory, not that it was particularly likely. For the record I have you both pegged as town and I think you are both wasting precious time accusing one another. His conspiracy idea arose mainly because you accused him of being scum. I see his post as a long-winded retaliation against your credibility to ensure that no one bandwagons him to oblivion. While I may obviously be incorrect, it was not retaliation. Before Chrom voted for me I had already decided that if Aqua moves his vote off of Chrom and then Chrom makes a case against me then they are working together. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
I assume that you're busy right now answering my other questions about your case, so in addition: On June 25 2013 04:17 hzflank wrote: While I may obviously be incorrect, it was not retaliation. Before Chrom voted for me I had already decided that if Aqua moves his vote off of Chrom and then Chrom makes a case against me then they are working together. When did you decide this? Right when you saw Aqua's case on me? | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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