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Let's play a game... |
On June 03 2013 09:32 MSmith1 wrote:@TheRealMcCoy aka TD2I just have three questions - How much of the thread have you read already?
- Before you replaced in, were you in the Obs QT, casually obsing on your own, or not following at all?
- If you're the real mccoy, who the fuck did Baker just appoint president?
@JPCan you give me a sneak peak at your big post? Who do you think is scum? Trout/TD2/Eccleston/HW/who?
Troughton still is very likely in my mind. I always get less sure of my reads as the game goes on, but such is life. I'd still wager he's scum.
Davison is likely town, having looked through his filter again, I was completely in the wrong to suspect him today. I had him as suspicious on day one, and hadn't re looked into him when I made that post earlier. Big mistake, quite obviously not scum post Dr. Tennant's flip.
Hartnell, and Eccleston are the two prime candidates aside from Troughton. It will include my thoughts on anyone who may be scum out of the people who are relatively confirmed at this point.
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I'm just a lurker who made the right vote at the right time.
But I suppose I should make some sort of scumhunting effort to support my innocence shouldn't I
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On June 03 2013 09:51 HartnellWill wrote:
I'm just a lurker who made the right vote at the right time.
But I suppose I should make some sort of scumhunting effort to support my innocence shouldn't I
yea that'd be really appreciated
thoughts on JP/Eccleston/Davis would be great. Or whoever else you think might be scum.
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oh shit pretty sick twist. I'm waiting for the awesome things therealmccoy has to say. He has to convince me that someone else is scum for me to be cool with him.
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Vote 1
+ Show Spoiler [A.McGann] ++ Show Spoiler [Vote] +On June 02 2013 13:35 A McGann wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 19:08 TheDavison wrote:
I'm not scum though TT.
I think we should look into H3 and TB4 most, those are the guys (TB4 more so) who were trying to puh counter wagons but ended up on the DrT wagon. That seems like the most likely place for scum to be in my mind, they would want to create a counter wagon on town and yet get the credit from a scum lynch.
TB4 still looks like scum to me, I don't like that no one tried to swing the lynch at all, I'd much prefer that we had a real possibility of a counter wagon to see where the votes ended up. With a tight race we'd have learned a lot more from a scum lynch. Ah well, it is what it is.
McGann, I disagree, it was clear to me at least that DrT was going to be the lynch no matter what. Barely over the line is totally false.
I'll write up a full case on TB4 within this night phase. In all seriousness though that shouldn't be needed, he is scum. In addition to your JPertwee read that never materialised, you never came through on this full case on TB4, either. What you have written about him so far is unconvincing to say the least. He was never trying to gain credit for the Dr Tennant lynch. Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 03:25 TheDavison wrote:On May 31 2013 12:47 TomB4 wrote:
I can name at least two people who would make better lynches (whom I haven't already), but it's pretty pointless given that it looks to be a fruitless endeavour right now. It's better for me to sit on those reads and see how they develop without interference.
Troughton is still a better lynch than DrT and he still has enough votes to be a viable candidate. He's not responded at all to any of the votes he's received. In fact, he's still done nothing at all since his first two posts. This post is incredible. Not in a good way. If you as town genuinely think this we'll have words post game. I find it much more likely however that the first sentence of this post is a lie, either a stupid gambit or a scum trying to look like they have more to contribute than they do. I don't like how TB4 is trying to defend DrT from this lynch either, his arguments for DrT being town are non-existent while his attacks on Trout seem like he fell for a modified Kenpachi trap. The role playing did not disguise Trout's motives or reads it was simply flavour. But it was odd. And scum love to attack odd things since they cannot genuinely hunt scum. For the moment ##Unvote
##Vote: TomB4I'm curious to see what he has to say and the rest of you are getting DrT lynched already. Time for another wagon so that the day gets interesting. The first part of your original case against him boils down to "I think this sentence is untruthful, I have no way to prove it". The next part is criticizing his defence of DrTennant. If you think Tom and Dr.Tennant are both scum together, why would you not join the majority of people already lynching DrTennant. If they were both your scum reads, you should have been happy to see either one die to confirm your suspicions. Furthermore, if they're both scum as you put forward, what would splitting this lynch between two scum prove? All this does is run the risk of a no-lynch as townies tussle with two competing wagons, both of which are accurate. You are not thinking like a townie and your original case is hollow. When pressed you deliver (questionable) town reads on people not in question and avoid commenting on the contentious ones. ##Vote: TheDavison The gist of your vote to me is: "You do not like TheDavison opinion of TomB4." Rebuttle(1) Since when is activity indicative of alignment? Perhaps those "promised' cases never materialised due to the inactivity which led to him being replaced. What does this do for your vote? Have you considered TheDavison entry into the thread? + Show Spoiler +On May 30 2013 03:11 TheDavison wrote:
I'd like to bring attention to H3's posting, in reading and rereading the thread I found him less than useless. He has a fair number of posts and has been involved in discussion without adding anything to said discussion.
He blatantly sheeped an early case without adding anything to it and unvoted as soon as the casee responded. Since that moment he has been complaining about the difficulty of reading an all smurf game, which is the reason I've read the thread more than once, and hasn't added anything to the progression of day one discussion.
For now I find H3 the scummiest player in the thread and shall, therefore, vote for him. I ask each of you to either vote with me and tell me why yo agree with me or, if you are not voting with me, tell me why you disagree.
Vote:Hurndall That first post was bold, blunt and brash. A combination stereotypical of town confidence. Yet, you are willing to throw away that explicit read simply because TheDavison had differing thoughts on a player you MUST CERTAINLY think is town (i.e. TomB4). - Otherwise the chainsaw defense makes no sense to me.
(2) This is most abundant when you attempt to tie scum motive to TD analysis of TB4 & Dr.T defense. Here, you present tunneled conclusions and juxtapose this mentality with the actions of TheDavison. Thus, by design, TheDavison would always become scum for you. I offer the following: Start reading TheDavison/me by face value. The Davison has been nothing but blunt, candid and open in his posts. There is no need to try and force that honesty into something else.
Vote 2
TomB4.
Run out of time.
Will address when I get back in a couple hours.
Vote 3
+ Show Spoiler [HartnellWill] ++ Show Spoiler [Vote] +On June 02 2013 23:54 HartnellWill wrote:
I like how instead of a TomB4 case we get three posts saying "this player could have been scum but nah, I think they're townie".
Otherwise McCoy said pretty much everything there is to say.
##Vote: TheDavison McCoy? So I presume we are talking about the following: + Show Spoiler [McCoy1] +On June 02 2013 19:13 SMcCoy wrote:Tom raises some good points actually, here's a tl; dr for why Davison might be a good lynch, too. Show nested quote +
of those I'd be way more interested in DrT, JP and Tom flipping than the other three.
On my reread I think its unlikely Hurn is scum.
Show nested quote +I think we should look into H3 and TB4 most, those are the guys (TB4 more so)
I'll write up a full case on TB4 within this night phase.
Show nested quote +I'm not not considering JP, I need to reread to see what I think of him though. Update on that in a few minutes after I see whats what.
I'm reading filters now and will update with reads and reasons when I have them.
Tell me what you observe. & + Show Spoiler [McCoy2] +On June 02 2013 19:51 SMcCoy wrote:I have some doubts about today's lynch though  I know this much, it's not going to be Tom, but one of JP or Davis. Here's a summary of stuff Davis did: - Mentions JP for no reason as lynch choice, never posts anything else about him. When asked about it, he says he needs to reread. This shows he had no preconception of his own he could communicate to us, as to why JP is scum. Didn't deliver anything.
- Strange flipflop on his Hurndall read. He went from arguing he's town based on his posts and votes to suspecting he's scum for joining the DrT wagon.
- No promised case against TB4 to see yet.
- Announced DrT as possible lynch choice, tried to start wagon on Tom before lynch, didn't help us consolidate on DrT.
I suggest that among the two we lynch the dude first who posts less compared to the first cycle. Other than that JP and Davis are both the best choices, with no particular order of preference, barring any new contributions that give me a better impression on one of the two. Interestingly enough, McCoy didnt lead with a vote. He asked others for observations. Please explain why you chose me over JP.
Vote 4
+ Show Spoiler [JPertwee] ++ Show Spoiler [Vote] +On June 03 2013 05:04 JPertwee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 04:48 SMcCoy wrote:
JP is essentially confusing timings there.
What happened was this:
DrT asked Trout why he didn't comment on him,
Tom came in with the policy lynch request on trout,
JP dropped his case,
DrT immediately hopped on.
What JP was claiming:
That DrT took his time before hopping on the wagon after his (JP's) case was posted.
which is not true. I still don't know how you guys aren't understanding this. I will make it as clear as I possibly can, and this will be the last I speak of it. DrT was a scum read of mine on day 1, that should be clear to everyone that's read the thread. However, Troughton has claimed scum in the thread, I would rather kill the 100% scum, and then go after the 70%. Especially with the linking circumstances in the thread. I am not saying Dr. Tennant took his time before going after Troughton. I am saying he hesitated. We know now that Tennant is scum. He was offered a lynch on Troughton, and it took him two posts before he was willing to go after him, even though he had put a bit of suspicion on him earlier. The whole scenario reeked of distancing from Tennant, and then the realization that there was no possible lynch that wasn't him or Troughton. If Troughton were town, there wouldn't have been that "Oh, yeah, he's scummy, but I won't vote" -> "Aw, fuck it, I'll vote him". It would've been "Oh, wow, look at this case guys. This is the real scum right here." and he would've slapped his vote down right away. The hesitancy is his desire to stay alive finally winning out and showing him that either he dies, or his scum buddy who has done nothing but claimed scum dies. It's an easy choice from that point. I see Davison being the one most likely to round out this list of scum. While it's possible there were scum on the wagon, I think at this point it's more likely that both the scum were not on the wagon. Davison fits the bill for the last member of the scum team, especially once you factor in that the scum team seemed to have had very little pull on the lynch. I'm still 100% sure that Troughton needs to be lynched for us to win, and if I had my way we'd lynch him today. From the way everyone's acting I just don't see that as a possibility today. With Troughton off the table I think Davison is without a doubt the best lynch today, and is only second to Troughton in the likelihood of being scum. ##Vote: TheDavison Technically you have recanted this vote. What is interesting with this vote is, you say TheDavison is the most likely to round out the list of scum, but you do no provide any rationale, other than "he fits the bill" and your top read Troughton is unlikely to be voted. Please explain why TD is a scum read, as for me, your insinuations are not explicit, and I would contest not even implicit.
In short:
The reasoning of HartnellWill and JPertwee need more explanation. They are weak votes, and explicitly demonstrate one of two mindsets.
(1) Town: Lazy sheep riding the town leader bandwagon
OR
(2) Scum: Using the town leader vote to bandwagon a town lynch.
The question is, which mindset both those players fit into.
Based on the way the votes are structured, I would argue JP is scum (as he felt a need to over compensate his vote, even though it said nothing).
At least HartnellWill had the confidence to bluntly say, I am sheeping SMcCoy.
Over and out.
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@TD2
You missed my questions :/
+ Show Spoiler [H3 humor] +Have you ever considered a career as some kind of sportscaster? You crack me up. Remind me to nominate you for funniest player after the game. On May 29 2013 23:01 Hurndall3 wrote:
yup mccoys post is scummy as fuck.
until he makes himself seem more town:
##vote smccoy On May 29 2013 23:24 Hurndall3 wrote:
##unvote
strong response by smccoy On May 30 2013 03:17 Hurndall3 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 03:11 TheDavison wrote:
I'd like to bring attention to H3's posting, in reading and rereading the thread I found him less than useless. He has a fair number of posts and has been involved in discussion without adding anything to said discussion.
He blatantly sheeped an early case without adding anything to it and unvoted as soon as the casee responded. Since that moment he has been complaining about the difficulty of reading an all smurf game, which is the reason I've read the thread more than once, and hasn't added anything to the progression of day one discussion.
For now I find H3 the scummiest player in the thread and shall, therefore, vote for him. I ask each of you to either vote with me and tell me why yo agree with me or, if you are not voting with me, tell me why you disagree.
Vote:Hurndall ok
##vote thedavisonpretty self explanatory imo. This is his first post! On May 30 2013 06:43 Hurndall3 wrote:
wow i have the best sig On May 30 2013 06:54 Hurndall3 wrote:
um ok SMcCoy I tried to read your last post several times. Maybe my attention span is bad but half way through (between megacases 1 and 2) I kept getting so bored that I lot my concentration and had to start over. I still have no idea what you are trying to say but the gist I got was it was COMPLETELY INCONCLUSIVE lol. It's all analysis and no insight. On May 30 2013 09:42 Hurndall3 wrote:
can smcc's analysis be summarized for simpletons such as myself or can the complexity of the argument not be condensed? On May 30 2013 12:56 Hurndall3 wrote:
I don't know what's going on with PT but I dont know why he's voting me or what argument he's sheeping. On May 31 2013 00:06 Hurndall3 wrote:
the bandwagon of justice rolling through.. it is so beautiful
##vote ptroughton On June 01 2013 07:12 Hurndall3 wrote:
loll tom you gonna feel dumb when you find out you are wrong On June 03 2013 06:47 Hurndall3 wrote:
holy shite this is the most amazing town I've ever seen. On June 03 2013 09:58 Hurndall3 wrote:
oh shit pretty sick twist. I'm waiting for the awesome things therealmccoy has to say. He has to convince me that someone else is scum for me to be cool with him.
Things that point to TD1 being town.
+ Show Spoiler [TD1] +On May 30 2013 03:11 TheDavison wrote:
I'd like to bring attention to H3's posting, in reading and rereading the thread I found him less than useless. He has a fair number of posts and has been involved in discussion without adding anything to said discussion.
He blatantly sheeped an early case without adding anything to it and unvoted as soon as the casee responded. Since that moment he has been complaining about the difficulty of reading an all smurf game, which is the reason I've read the thread more than once, and hasn't added anything to the progression of day one discussion.
For now I find H3 the scummiest player in the thread and shall, therefore, vote for him. I ask each of you to either vote with me and tell me why yo agree with me or, if you are not voting with me, tell me why you disagree.
Vote:Hurndall
In his first post, he twice emphasizes how much he has read the thread (bolded). I feel like scum are less likely to talk themselves up like this because they don't want to be held to high expectations, unlike townies. Minor point.
+ Show Spoiler [TD1] +On May 30 2013 22:39 TheDavison wrote:
This is a game where none of us, even you, can make people listen to them based on their names so each of us should be evaluating individual cases on a merit basis and I should not have to be in thread actively pushing for it to be considered. Because I could be anyone from Grush to Syllo I expect you to look into my cases as if they come form someone worth listening to.
This little speal feels genuine to me and again feels like a townie's attitude. He wants to be listened to and respected.
+ Show Spoiler [TD1] +On May 30 2013 23:54 TheDavison wrote:
Doc, don't you feel bad for accussing someone of "maybe not reading the thread" when you yourself are clearly not reading the thread. You 'could kill him' someone else 'has a point' you couldn't be less committal if you tried.
Baker, you are right. DocT is one scummy mother fucker.
smcc pointed this out already. If TD is scum trying to save his scumbuddy he has a funny way of showing it. Mind you, this is just as the trout wagon started picking up steam.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 31 2013 03:40 Eccleston wrote:
On second thought, I do find it quite strange that PT2 even bothered writing his mini case on Hurndall. If he is mafia trying to just skate by without doing anything, why make this stupid post instead of sheeping McCoy? I can think of two reasons:
1. DrT is mafia and PT2 doesn't want to add any more pressure on him.
2. DrT is town and PT2 doesn't want to be held accountable if he is to be lynched.
I can't see any pro-town motivation behind his post though... Maybe he doesn't find DrT scummy, but can't be bothered to voice his opinion? Because it's hard to believe that he really is that convinced on Hurndall... The guy had posted about 300 words at that time.
On May 31 2013 03:42 TheDavison wrote:
I think you mean me, Eccelson, not PT.
I'm the one with a minor case on H3 who didn't comment on DrT at that time. On May 31 2013 03:47 Eccleston wrote:
Uhhh... I meant PT. He made his post on H3 in the midst of the DrT discussion without bothering to comment on it. I think I confused you by calling it a case. I should've just called it a post, because it really isn't a valid case. On May 31 2013 03:49 TheDavison wrote:
ah, that makes more sense.
This exchange feels townie to me. TD wasn't in the thread and therefore wasn't obliged to say anything. But then he popped in just so he could tell someone else to properly accuse him of being scum. Just seems off from a scum perspective.
+ Show Spoiler [MS1] +
Davis's vote on TB4 doesn't look scum-motivated to me. I don't think Davis could have had any expectation of actually lynching TB4 yesterday, after the votecount was 7-0. It would be a pretty fucking ballsy play as scum to try to start a lynch on a townie knowing that in all likeliness your scumbuddy is about to get lynched, flip red, and make you look bad. Between the two explanations, I think it's more plausible that he actually believes in that "two wagons are better than one" theory (and therefore was genuinely trying to help town) than that he is an exceptionally ballsy scum player.
This is my explanation of why it is easier to explain his odd vote on TB4 from a town perspective than from a scum perspective.
+ Show Spoiler [TD1] +On June 02 2013 04:51 TheDavison wrote:
Actually this is interesting, there was a time on page 7-8 where Trout was leading in votes four to three by my count. It was at that time when HWill came in and voted DrT bringing him to four as well. While I was feeling bad on the Hwill voting I really like his timing. I think a scum coming into the thread at that time would try to push the trout lynch and, with a few reasoned arguments could probably actually sway people.
Feeling better about Hwill after that read. I'd suggest everyone go look at page 7 and 8 actually.
And finally, as brought up by smcc, this quote feels townie and I think TD1 brought up a good point here, which originally went unnoticed by the rest of us.
I concede that I might be overthinking a couple of these, but there are enough small things that make me feel like TD1 was town that I wouldn't be comfortable with lynching TD2 today. On top of that, TD2 seems eager to contribute. So, I'd be very unhappy with a TD lynch today.
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This is what I see in the 14 posts of Eccleston's filter.
1 /in post
4 general earlygame banter posts discussing setup, other people's motives, etc.
1 post consisting of very fluffy DrTennant analysis that doesn't actually do anything and looks intentionally drawn out
1 post defending PT2
1 post redacting the post defending PT2 (note that this isn't scummy per se, but the fact that there's no pressure involved and the speculation doesn't do much to advance the game makes this post scummy in context)
1 post of wat
3 one-liners
1 post instasheeping DrT and redacting the post redacting the post defending PT2. Note the flip flops on possibly the strongest read this guy has had all game
1 post soft defending DrT
##Unvote
##Vote: Eccleston
Back to the lurker den
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Power just died.am phone posting. Eccleston and troughton are the last two scum. Tennant had that made up reasoning about why ecclestons fluff, post wasn't scummy. Eccleston soft buses tennant then defends troughton. Then realizes he's going to lose either an active teammate or an inactive one and switches to bus troughton. after a long time finally puts his vote on tennant, then defends troughton again. Then defends tennant even though he's now voting for him.
## vote eccleston
If I have power in morning, will try to post more before leaving.
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Unofficial Votecount
JP (3): Baker, smcc, MS1
TD (3): TB4, AMG, H3
Eccleston(1): HW
Not Voting (4): Trout, TD, Eccleston, JP
6 votes needed to lynch.
Blech. I'm not feeling especially confident about today's lynch.
I definitely don't want to lynch TD for reasons I already stated.
I still think JP has a good chance of being scum, but his recent posting makes me uneasy. He's actually showing interest in playing the game and finding scum. Then again maybe he's only doing this because I called him out for not scumhunting...
I'd feel pretty good about lynching Eccleston, but I'm not sure it's the right move if he'd be modkilled regardless.
I guess we could lynch HW but there is still the matter of his vote yesterday, and he recently started doing something that could be classified as a contribution.
In summary I could be OK with a lynch on HW, Eccleston, or JP, but I'm really not too confident that any of them is the right move. Hrmph. I'm feeling JP > Ecc > HW (from best lynch to worst).
Going to bed soon and won't be back until a few hours before the deadline. I trust you guys to figure out a sensible direction to go in. Hopefully we'll get some of those promised contributions from TD2/PJ/ECC.
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ninja'd
Unofficial Votecount
JP (3): Baker, smcc, MS1
TD (3): TB4, AMG, H3
Eccleston(2): HW, JP
Not Voting (3): Trout, TD, Eccleston
6 votes needed to lynch.
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Let's let the new Davison post a bit.
I really don't like JP's last post.
I'm running short on time and will be back tomorrow. For now:
##unvote
##vote JPertwee
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Nope. I do not like this Eccleston lynch that is forming.
You think he's scum after this post:
On May 31 2013 03:05 Eccleston wrote:I think lynching PT2 at this time would be unwise. He's made one post and thrown a vote on Hurndall3 for being "brief and blunt", and suddenly, ten hours later, he's a prime suspect? I think you're stretching it when you say that Show nested quote +Being present but not caring about scumhunting is actually much worse than simply not being present at all, because there is standing evidence that a player has at least taken the time to read and post, but still is not contributing. That's far from "null" in my opinion. At the time of his post the thread was about three and a half pages long. It doesn't really take much effort to read that and then write a five paragraph RP post and throw a vote on someone. He could just as well be disinterested townie. I could understand it if you were pushing him as a policy lynch because you're not certain about DrT, but how he is "far from null" is beyond me. He has made one (half serious) post in the entire game. Has he been useless? Yes. Does that make him scum? No.
Look at the time this is posted on Page 8. The voting is:
DrT(3): McCoy, Baker, Msmith
Hurndall(2): Ptrout, Thedavis
Ptrout(4): Tom, Jpertwee, DrT, Hrundall
Now examine this post with the information that DrT is scum and pretend that you're Eccleston, also scum. "Hey guys, I think lynching the leading counterwagon to my teammate would be extremely unwise at this point because he's just as likely to be town."
Now, I know Msmith already touched on this and came to the conclusion that Eccleston tried to back out of this read later, but I really do believe Eccleston was just overthinking it. Why would he have made the original post in the first place? The Ptrout wagon was picking up steam and leading at this point (4-3), bussing here is exceptionally premature as DrT was not leading the vote count, why would you start discrediting your teammates only chance at survival when he wasn't even close to doomed? If he WAS going to bus here, why wouldn't he just slam his vote down on DrT in the same post and make it official and be on the wagon sooner.
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GM asked me (TheRealMcCoy) to continue posting under "TheDavison"
For reference:
+ Show Spoiler [Post 1] +On June 03 2013 09:04 TheRealMcCoy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 08:37 GMarshal wrote:
TheDavison has been taken over by a new player Guys, GM confirmed me on my non-smurf account, but HAS NOT confirmed me on this smurf yet. I'm blurring the lines of what is acceptable as Davison appears to be the prime candidate for this lynch and almost 24hrs has expired - so there so is much work to be done to prove innocence. Apologies GM for jumping the gun. Feel free to reprimand me if you want.
All: Below are the actions I plan to take over the next 24hrs. Feel free to direct questions my way between now and then. (1) Dissect the cases against Davison with my fresh perspective. Note: I can not explain the "why" of Davison. However, as I know his alignment, I can try to understand the motive and give my take on what occurred. (2) Determine a valid counter candidate to lynch Note: I know I am town - yet I also understand that heeds no meaning until I establish my innocence.
Please be patient, I know everyone enjoys a passionate and robust defense. However, I do like the post count of the game currently, therefore, do not wish to break away from that. In short: I am going to start working on the two points above, and will make every effort to answer questions headed my way post-replacing.
+ Show Spoiler [Post 2] +On June 03 2013 10:03 TheRealMcCoy wrote:Vote 1+ Show Spoiler [A.McGann] ++ Show Spoiler [Vote] +On June 02 2013 13:35 A McGann wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 19:08 TheDavison wrote:
I'm not scum though TT.
I think we should look into H3 and TB4 most, those are the guys (TB4 more so) who were trying to puh counter wagons but ended up on the DrT wagon. That seems like the most likely place for scum to be in my mind, they would want to create a counter wagon on town and yet get the credit from a scum lynch.
TB4 still looks like scum to me, I don't like that no one tried to swing the lynch at all, I'd much prefer that we had a real possibility of a counter wagon to see where the votes ended up. With a tight race we'd have learned a lot more from a scum lynch. Ah well, it is what it is.
McGann, I disagree, it was clear to me at least that DrT was going to be the lynch no matter what. Barely over the line is totally false.
I'll write up a full case on TB4 within this night phase. In all seriousness though that shouldn't be needed, he is scum. In addition to your JPertwee read that never materialised, you never came through on this full case on TB4, either. What you have written about him so far is unconvincing to say the least. He was never trying to gain credit for the Dr Tennant lynch. Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 03:25 TheDavison wrote:On May 31 2013 12:47 TomB4 wrote:
I can name at least two people who would make better lynches (whom I haven't already), but it's pretty pointless given that it looks to be a fruitless endeavour right now. It's better for me to sit on those reads and see how they develop without interference.
Troughton is still a better lynch than DrT and he still has enough votes to be a viable candidate. He's not responded at all to any of the votes he's received. In fact, he's still done nothing at all since his first two posts. This post is incredible. Not in a good way. If you as town genuinely think this we'll have words post game. I find it much more likely however that the first sentence of this post is a lie, either a stupid gambit or a scum trying to look like they have more to contribute than they do. I don't like how TB4 is trying to defend DrT from this lynch either, his arguments for DrT being town are non-existent while his attacks on Trout seem like he fell for a modified Kenpachi trap. The role playing did not disguise Trout's motives or reads it was simply flavour. But it was odd. And scum love to attack odd things since they cannot genuinely hunt scum. For the moment ##Unvote
##Vote: TomB4I'm curious to see what he has to say and the rest of you are getting DrT lynched already. Time for another wagon so that the day gets interesting. The first part of your original case against him boils down to "I think this sentence is untruthful, I have no way to prove it". The next part is criticizing his defence of DrTennant. If you think Tom and Dr.Tennant are both scum together, why would you not join the majority of people already lynching DrTennant. If they were both your scum reads, you should have been happy to see either one die to confirm your suspicions. Furthermore, if they're both scum as you put forward, what would splitting this lynch between two scum prove? All this does is run the risk of a no-lynch as townies tussle with two competing wagons, both of which are accurate. You are not thinking like a townie and your original case is hollow. When pressed you deliver (questionable) town reads on people not in question and avoid commenting on the contentious ones. ##Vote: TheDavison The gist of your vote to me is: "You do not like TheDavison opinion of TomB4." Rebuttle(1) Since when is activity indicative of alignment? Perhaps those "promised' cases never materialised due to the inactivity which led to him being replaced. What does this do for your vote? Have you considered TheDavison entry into the thread? + Show Spoiler +On May 30 2013 03:11 TheDavison wrote:
I'd like to bring attention to H3's posting, in reading and rereading the thread I found him less than useless. He has a fair number of posts and has been involved in discussion without adding anything to said discussion.
He blatantly sheeped an early case without adding anything to it and unvoted as soon as the casee responded. Since that moment he has been complaining about the difficulty of reading an all smurf game, which is the reason I've read the thread more than once, and hasn't added anything to the progression of day one discussion.
For now I find H3 the scummiest player in the thread and shall, therefore, vote for him. I ask each of you to either vote with me and tell me why yo agree with me or, if you are not voting with me, tell me why you disagree.
Vote:Hurndall That first post was bold, blunt and brash. A combination stereotypical of town confidence. Yet, you are willing to throw away that explicit read simply because TheDavison had differing thoughts on a player you MUST CERTAINLY think is town (i.e. TomB4). - Otherwise the chainsaw defense makes no sense to me.
(2) This is most abundant when you attempt to tie scum motive to TD analysis of TB4 & Dr.T defense. Here, you present tunneled conclusions and juxtapose this mentality with the actions of TheDavison. Thus, by design, TheDavison would always become scum for you. I offer the following: Start reading TheDavison/me by face value. The Davison has been nothing but blunt, candid and open in his posts. There is no need to try and force that honesty into something else. TomB4. Run out of time. Will address when I get back in a couple hours. Vote 3+ Show Spoiler [HartnellWill] ++ Show Spoiler [Vote] +On June 02 2013 23:54 HartnellWill wrote:
I like how instead of a TomB4 case we get three posts saying "this player could have been scum but nah, I think they're townie".
Otherwise McCoy said pretty much everything there is to say.
##Vote: TheDavison McCoy? So I presume we are talking about the following: + Show Spoiler [McCoy1] +On June 02 2013 19:13 SMcCoy wrote:Tom raises some good points actually, here's a tl; dr for why Davison might be a good lynch, too. Show nested quote +
of those I'd be way more interested in DrT, JP and Tom flipping than the other three.
On my reread I think its unlikely Hurn is scum.
Show nested quote +I think we should look into H3 and TB4 most, those are the guys (TB4 more so)
I'll write up a full case on TB4 within this night phase.
Show nested quote +I'm not not considering JP, I need to reread to see what I think of him though. Update on that in a few minutes after I see whats what.
I'm reading filters now and will update with reads and reasons when I have them.
Tell me what you observe. & + Show Spoiler [McCoy2] +On June 02 2013 19:51 SMcCoy wrote:I have some doubts about today's lynch though I know this much, it's not going to be Tom, but one of JP or Davis. Here's a summary of stuff Davis did: - Mentions JP for no reason as lynch choice, never posts anything else about him. When asked about it, he says he needs to reread. This shows he had no preconception of his own he could communicate to us, as to why JP is scum. Didn't deliver anything.
- Strange flipflop on his Hurndall read. He went from arguing he's town based on his posts and votes to suspecting he's scum for joining the DrT wagon.
- No promised case against TB4 to see yet.
- Announced DrT as possible lynch choice, tried to start wagon on Tom before lynch, didn't help us consolidate on DrT.
I suggest that among the two we lynch the dude first who posts less compared to the first cycle. Other than that JP and Davis are both the best choices, with no particular order of preference, barring any new contributions that give me a better impression on one of the two. Interestingly enough, McCoy didnt lead with a vote. He asked others for observations. Please explain why you chose me over JP. + Show Spoiler [Vote] +On June 03 2013 05:04 JPertwee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 04:48 SMcCoy wrote:
JP is essentially confusing timings there.
What happened was this:
DrT asked Trout why he didn't comment on him,
Tom came in with the policy lynch request on trout,
JP dropped his case,
DrT immediately hopped on.
What JP was claiming:
That DrT took his time before hopping on the wagon after his (JP's) case was posted.
which is not true. I still don't know how you guys aren't understanding this. I will make it as clear as I possibly can, and this will be the last I speak of it. DrT was a scum read of mine on day 1, that should be clear to everyone that's read the thread. However, Troughton has claimed scum in the thread, I would rather kill the 100% scum, and then go after the 70%. Especially with the linking circumstances in the thread. I am not saying Dr. Tennant took his time before going after Troughton. I am saying he hesitated. We know now that Tennant is scum. He was offered a lynch on Troughton, and it took him two posts before he was willing to go after him, even though he had put a bit of suspicion on him earlier. The whole scenario reeked of distancing from Tennant, and then the realization that there was no possible lynch that wasn't him or Troughton. If Troughton were town, there wouldn't have been that "Oh, yeah, he's scummy, but I won't vote" -> "Aw, fuck it, I'll vote him". It would've been "Oh, wow, look at this case guys. This is the real scum right here." and he would've slapped his vote down right away. The hesitancy is his desire to stay alive finally winning out and showing him that either he dies, or his scum buddy who has done nothing but claimed scum dies. It's an easy choice from that point. I see Davison being the one most likely to round out this list of scum. While it's possible there were scum on the wagon, I think at this point it's more likely that both the scum were not on the wagon. Davison fits the bill for the last member of the scum team, especially once you factor in that the scum team seemed to have had very little pull on the lynch. I'm still 100% sure that Troughton needs to be lynched for us to win, and if I had my way we'd lynch him today. From the way everyone's acting I just don't see that as a possibility today. With Troughton off the table I think Davison is without a doubt the best lynch today, and is only second to Troughton in the likelihood of being scum. ##Vote: TheDavison Technically you have recanted this vote. What is interesting with this vote is, you say TheDavison is the most likely to round out the list of scum, but you do no provide any rationale, other than "he fits the bill" and your top read Troughton is unlikely to be voted. Please explain why TD is a scum read, as for me, your insinuations are not explicit, and I would contest not even implicit. In short: The reasoning of HartnellWill and JPertwee need more explanation. They are weak votes, and explicitly demonstrate one of two mindsets. (1) Town: Lazy sheep riding the town leader bandwagon OR (2) Scum: Using the town leader vote to bandwagon a town lynch. The question is, which mindset both those players fit into. Based on the way the votes are structured, I would argue JP is scum (as he felt a need to over compensate his vote, even though it said nothing). At least HartnellWill had the confidence to bluntly say, I am sheeping SMcCoy. Over and out.
MSmith1: I will address your queries when I get back.
Today is busy day unfortunately.
JPeterwee: Originally, you were pushing Troughton AND voted TheDavison.
Now, you are pushing Troughton AND voting Ecleston.
I have two questions then.
(1) If Troughton is your consistent scum read. Please share again in laymans terms why you are not campaigning for his vote?
(2) Please share your thoughts on Baker1986. and his love for Ace // SMcCoy.
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Why is Baker in question?
And take the identity speculation elsewhere, I signed up here to get away from meta arguments, and that's all that'll lead to.
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United States22154 Posts
On June 03 2013 13:53 TheDavison wrote:
(2) Please share your thoughts on Baker1986. and his love for Ace // SMcCoy.
No speculating about people's identity. Its in the OP approximately 4 times and in the big white box
Thanks for your cooperation. ^_^
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United States22154 Posts
PTroughton2 is under new management
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On June 03 2013 14:08 A McGann wrote:
Why is Baker in question?
Mr McGann, I shall explain in three parts.
(1) Why did I bother to consider Baker
Because I don't like sycophants.
As scum they easily blend in with town status quo and thus, are never held accountable.
There is no shame to agree with someone else.
However, Baker has taken this into the realms of hyperbole.
His posting of late is nothing more than to create a SMcCoy fan club.
(2) Why did I ask JP to give me an opinion on Baker
Because I wanted to see how he reacted when asked to discuss something that has not received much attention.
(3) But seriously, why Baker1986.. who has he pissed off?
That is precisely the point.
Baker1986 is a person who has bugged since since before I replaced in.
Now I am in the game, I felt this was a way to inject some original thought into the thread for discussion.
Perhaps he is simply a townie that loves his leader. There is no shame in that either.
However I still think it is critical for him to put his cock on the block and share his *own* thoughts before being prompted to go "+1".
In my opinion, this stream of thoughts can only improve towns position, not hinder.
Anyways, here are some exerts of Baker1986 fanaticism.
+ Show Spoiler +If it is unclear. All the references to "sheep" refer to "SMcCoy". This has gone on for multiple days now. On June 01 2013 22:37 Baker1986 wrote:
My man McCoy On June 02 2013 05:39 Baker1986 wrote:
Also, I'm starting a McCoy fanclub.
Anyone wishing to join can type in the thread:
##McCoy for President On June 02 2013 18:29 Baker1986 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2013 16:10 TomB4 wrote:I need to read in on Davison, but I avoided doing so on the idea that I'd be quite biased given he was attacking me. I should probably take time to remove that autotown read on him and look into it more. Anyway I wanted to post my reads before deadline but was unfortunately away (playing paintball). No one died? First thing I wanted to get out of the way: do we think none of the scum bussed on day 1? This is a 12 player game, there are almost certainly 3 scum. What's the most likely split for votes by scum? I don't think it's likely that both scum bussed unless they are more active than I think they are. It certainly doesn't seem like the most active players are scum, and the only person who is suspicious at all that has posted a fair amount is JP. His vote was on PT. On DrT the two most suspicious players are HW and Eccleston. Everyone else looks fine. So, unless one of the scum has tricked us, there are five players (six if you count me) that we should look into. JP HW Eccleston TheDavison Ptroughton Someone is probably getting replaced/modkilled-for now let's assume it's PT and ignore him. If he gets replaced we will probably know his alignment (hopefully) decently well within 24 hours of his replacement coming in, assuming the replacement is reasonably active. If PT is not the one being replaced we should strongly consider killing him, since it means he is somehow active enough to stay in the game, yet has contributed nothing to town and is not active by town standards, i.e. probably scum. Thus the replacement issue should probably resolve itself. So, going with the assumption that PT is being replaced, we look at 4: JP HW Eccleston TheDavison I found myself agreeing with some of Davison's logic, particularly that contested lynches on day 1 are useful. However, I'm not sure why, if he was truly interested in starting a wagon, he didn't push me harder. In addition, he never swapped his vote back to DrT at the end of the day, even stranger for a townie. Even if he didn't have the motivation to push me after his initial votepost I would at the very least expect some sort of vote back to the main candidate to prevent a no-lynch. This is extended majority, not plurality. His vote was wasted, and removing two votes from the main wagon would result in no-lynch. As town he should know that. More interesting, is the effort that Davison put into reading and posting about everyone, except JP. I don't like forming connections before flips but this one is extraordinarily out of place. On June 02 2013 04:25 TheDavison wrote:On June 01 2013 19:23 SMcCoy wrote:@ TomI need your exact reasoning for giving JP a townread. He's the next guy I would lynch. All the noise he has been making was always an attempt to shift the lynch away from DrT, I will show it in more detail. @ TheDavisonI want to know why you're not considering JP, and I would like you to comment on the points written in favor of H3 so far. Multiple players have given him townreads, myself included.______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Then, I don't like how this guy joined the wagon, he has basically no other posts of value, and keeps himself the option open to switch to trout should the counterwagon gain steam: On May 31 2013 05:00 HartnellWill wrote:
##Vote DrTennant. Other than skimming the thread, Tennant's filter is surprisingly empty of anything that would contribute to town. Mostly asking others to do work for him while he sits and waits and gets his postcount up.
And while I'm reading PT2's case right now, it wouldn't be a surprise to see both of them role scum. DrT votes him without saying another word. Sheeping the wagon that isn't him because it isn't him that will get killed if it goes through. Vigi should probably shoot Trout for uselessness, although I would speculate that he's town based on current information. Nonetheless it's better if we take him out of the equation. Hartnelwill might be another viable option cause he's a lurker. I'm not not considering JP, I need to reread to see what I think of him though. Update on that in a few minutes after I see whats what. Note that this never happened, despite Davison staying around and posting on PT, and HW, two of the easiest people to comment on. Both of their filters are almost completely void. (there was also a post on MSmith IIRC) In light of all of this I think it's quite likely Davison is scum. EcclestonBased on what I've read of Eccleston's posts I think he's probably the most likely to be town out of the entire lot. In fact, I think he's quite likely to be town. He's made very specific observations that are quite hard for scum to make. I do not, for example, think that the average TL scum player would say anything like these: On May 31 2013 19:25 Eccleston wrote:On May 31 2013 11:20 Hurndall3 wrote:
##unvote
##vote DrT
k I think I can sheep this DrT shit now that I read the case thoroughly.
these are the points that convinced me to sheep.
1 DrT's overdefense
2 unnatural calmness
3 repeated appeal that scum is among the inactives
4 one dimensional scumreads Can you explain to me why you think that these points are exclusive to a scum mindset? For example, point three could be explained from a town perspective too; if DrT is a townie being tunneled, trying to shift the attention toward the lurkers is a perfectly valid thing to do if he thinks that the mafia are lurking. Before, you dismissed his "overdefense", as brought up by MSmith1 here (it's point two in his post), saying that "2 people are searching for something to talk about early game. This is true of both town and scum." What made you change your mind? How often do scum reference posts and actually question the logic of someone else on such a specific level? Generally scum find it hard to fake the "figuring out" process because they've already been given the alignments of everyone in the game. It's almost impossible to fake this kind of specific questioning process-if questioning is faked by scum, it's usually more general or nebulous. On May 31 2013 03:05 Eccleston wrote:I think lynching PT2 at this time would be unwise. He's made one post and thrown a vote on Hurndall3 for being "brief and blunt", and suddenly, ten hours later, he's a prime suspect? I think you're stretching it when you say that Being present but not caring about scumhunting is actually much worse than simply not being present at all, because there is standing evidence that a player has at least taken the time to read and post, but still is not contributing. That's far from "null" in my opinion. At the time of his post the thread was about three and a half pages long. It doesn't really take much effort to read that and then write a five paragraph RP post and throw a vote on someone. He could just as well be disinterested townie. I could understand it if you were pushing him as a policy lynch because you're not certain about DrT, but how he is "far from null" is beyond me. He has made one (half serious) post in the entire game. Has he been useless? Yes. Does that make him scum? No. This post reflects Eccleston's initial thought process regarding my opinion of PT yesterday. What's interesting is not necessarily this post itself, because I think the average scum could probably reasonably fake something like this. What's most interesting are his followup posts that demonstrate that he was thinking about this. IMO most scum would not put in the effort to think about what another player has written and said about someone else because they don't have to-they don't know how to fake the process, and so they only show the results of that process. This is partly also, IMO, why scum are so reluctant to swap votes. It's hard for scum to realistically be able to fake a decision-making process when their ulterior goal is to blend in. Eccleston doesn't display any of those tendencies. He's almost certainly town IMO. If anyone can find instances where I am wrong about what I've said above, I'd love to hear it. The only thing that could possibly be held against Eccleston, IMO, is his relatively low recent activity, but given the context of the game I do not think it is a point worthy of consideration unless his inactivity persists. So, this leaves JP and HW. HartnellWill has nothing. Nothing really to say on this-he could also potentially be the person for whom GM was looking for a replacement. His vote timing is not early enough to be conclusive evidence of him being town and not late enough to be conclusive evidence of him bussing either. JP is consistent throughout his attacks on PT. The worst things against JP are: his lack of presence at crucial times for town during the day. He wasn't around for the lynch, his vote never moved from a doomed wagon, and he acted relatively strange with respect to the flipped scum. However, there are a couple things in his favor, particularly this little bit, which is what I was referencing when I said I found his tone to be townish. On June 01 2013 02:02 JPertwee wrote:
You could telling me I should defending Dr. Tennant. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? I'm telling you why we should lynch Troughton first, and then Tennant tomorrow unless something comes up that clears him. I don't care to defend Tennant, if he wants to defend himself, he can. I have no interest in it. I have interest in lynching my top scum read, which is the guy who has claimed scum in the thread. Bolded emphasis mine-this is not much but I don't think this anger is faked. Certainly he could be frustrated scum (with the lynch of his buddy perhaps) but I'm wary of that. Generally displays of frustration and use of tone like this is indicative of a townie. The only other thing worthy of any mention is Davison's failure to provide a read on JP, but that is more reflective of Davison's alignment than JP's. Based on what we have in the thread right now, I would say that Davison and JP are our best bets for lynches today, but I would strongly favor Davison precisely because he made a promise on reads that he didn't follow up on despite being present and following up on other reads. HW and PT have no posts and there is probably some mod intervention that is going to happen with at least one of them, and Eccleston to me looks like he is town. + Show Spoiler +On June 02 2013 07:50 Baker1986 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2013 06:52 SMcCoy wrote:
Deliver some more analysis on your scumspects pls, or at least agree with what others write, you're supposed to push the lynches you claim to want you know. A lot of the stuff we're talking about isn't really relevant for tomorrow's lynch and that is displeasing.
If I was scum I probably couldn't care less if Town-Tom thought I was scum. wat TL;DR On June 02 2013 19:24 Baker1986 wrote:
Do I have to, can't I just sheep you? On June 02 2013 22:02 Baker1986 wrote:
I'd probably just sheep this Davison lynch too, tbh On June 03 2013 08:12 Baker1986 wrote:
but why not just sheep mccoy? He's the president after all...
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On June 02 2013 21:16 A McGann wrote:
Tom, in regards to how many scum were on the Dr.Tennant wagon, I'd say a maximum of 1. The idea of both remaining scum being on Dr.Tennant (and therefore everyone not on that lynch is town) is outlandish enough that I'm willing to discount it. I will admit I have not read the whole thread since replacing in.
(i.e. my knowledge of the thread is based on my readings pre-replacement)
The OP says the # of roles is not given; can you please clarify how the thread/yourself came to the discovery of 3 scum?
I have played in 13 player games with 4 scum, 3 scum, 3 scum + 1 3P.
I am still puzzled with what logic/knowledge such a bold statement derived from?
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On June 03 2013 09:32 MSmith1 wrote:
@TheRealMcCoy aka TD2
I just have three questions
[1]How much of the thread have you read already? I read the whole thread as an observer, kept updated and developed opinions on several characters.
Not that it means anything, but I did support the Dr.T lynch.
[2]Before you replaced in, were you in the Obs QT, casually obsing on your own, or not following at all? I was not in the ObsQT.
As an aside, if I was, I believe that would make me ineligible to replace in.
[3]If you're the real mccoy, who the fuck did Baker just appoint president? TheRealMcCoy was my way of signalling to everyone I was up to date with the thread before replacing in.
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On June 03 2013 15:47 TheDavison wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2013 21:16 A McGann wrote:
Tom, in regards to how many scum were on the Dr.Tennant wagon, I'd say a maximum of 1. The idea of both remaining scum being on Dr.Tennant (and therefore everyone not on that lynch is town) is outlandish enough that I'm willing to discount it. I will admit I have not read the whole thread since replacing in. (i.e. my knowledge of the thread is based on my readings pre-replacement) The OP says the # of roles is not given; can you please clarify how the thread/yourself came to the discovery of 3 scum? I have played in 13 player games with 4 scum, 3 scum, 3 scum + 1 3P. I am still puzzled with what logic/knowledge such a bold statement derived from?
EBWOP
Please ignore that moment of stupidity.
After another review of the OP, it shoes 3/3 Derridians.
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EPT
