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FA, I think that you represented the community very well there. Thank you.
People want a fun game, and are concerned about being repeatedly schooled by players with superior skill (control).
The solution here is not to impinge upon the difficulty of the control element, but to play players whose control similarly sucks. This is why effective pairing of players will be an important part of the SC2 ladder system.
I don't want to lose 300 games in a row because it just isn't fun, so pairing me with those of similar skill deals with my concerns while still allowing top players to continually practice the difficult aspects of the game.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Thanks =] That forum is seriously demoralizing tho, so much fighting - ALL THE TIME. Oh well.
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december sounds immature as hell, but maybe hes young whatever. He definately needs to realize the group of people hes talking to and remember that everyone who played starcraft was at that point once(and in terms of the complaining about things being hard, at least knew someone like that).
Hes going about shit the wrong way entirely.
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United States20661 Posts
That forum has too many people trying to create a DoW or CnCGenerals clone. Fucking hell. Can't deal with that. T_T
I trust Blizzard to go and read actual community sites of hardcore fans [i.e. us] as well as Korean sites [PGR21, etc], because the people who just post only on Blizzard forums are most likely those who don't know of any other forums, and just went to Blizzard site after hearing SC2 announcement.
However, I'm not as faithful in Blizzard PR as I once was. Sandlot T-T
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PS. How do I register for those forums? I'm browsing through the suggestions forums and I don't see anything obvious like a "register" button.
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On May 21 2007 15:09 pooper-scooper wrote: PS. How do I register for those forums? I'm browsing through the suggestions forums and I don't see anything obvious like a "register" button. You don't register just use one of your ID's gateway and CDKey.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 21 2007 15:07 LastRomantic wrote: That forum has too many people trying to create a DoW or CnCGenerals clone. Fucking hell. Can't deal with that. T_T
I trust Blizzard to go and read actual community sites of hardcore fans [i.e. us] as well as Korean sites [PGR21, etc], because the people who just post only on Blizzard forums are most likely those who don't know of any other forums, and just went to Blizzard site after hearing SC2 announcement.
However, I'm not as faithful in Blizzard PR as I once was. Sandlot T-T What about sandlot, I think it was handled well? :O
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My angle on the situation with crippled UI is that I'd like to do some advanced strategies and late game stuff, but as a slow player, bw forces me to focus almost entirely on massing and macro. If I want to win, I need to play in a dumber way. I hate losing to shit that I see coming, or gaining an advantage through outsmarting someone and then losing it through mechanical incompetancy time and time again. It's frustrating. If I play to win, it makes my games far more boring because I'm so slow the base management takes almost all of my time. Everyone macros like a mofo these days, PvT is about whether you max in 13 or 15 minutes now, people at my level can just throw armies at each other and hope for the best because they're too slow to seriously control those huge masses anyway. If I try to micro beyond the pathetic APM constraints allowed for my noobish skill level I WILL lose no matter how good I am at it. With the auto fexp everyone plays in 1v1s now, good luck doing anything complicated in the game past 15 minutes if your apm isn't 200. I explained it in another thread, people going OOH and AHH when a pro maelstrom+storm a bunch of devs, exactly proves my point, I'm not able to do these things in the games I play, and it's not because I can't think of it or can't micro the spells good enough.
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To summarize my post, I want the game to be more enjoyable, even if that's going to detract from the worshipping of the Amazing Mechanical Control the pros have.
My opinions are based on self-interest, it's really simple. I want the game to be fun and strategic much more than I want to watch and drool at pro replays and VODs.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Bah, when I was slower I used DAs and such things MORE often :D But I can see how the game has changed a lot since then, people used to be far worse at macro than they are now so you had a lot more room.
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I just hope blizzard has read one of my many posts about the same ideas/features I have suggested in other threads that I don't feel like listing here.
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if you cant do something to because you are too slow, get faster.
Its not like nada started playing bw with 350 apm and amazing mouse accuracy, its an aquired skill that some natural hand eye coordination can help with
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that guy complaining about how he loses to a <9pool all the time (it seems, lings coming in before rax is finished?) with all his nanosecond and picosecond bullshit is T_T. if he wants unlimited time because he can't make the first gateway or barracks fast enough he should go play turn-based strategy games -_-
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On May 20 2007 15:10 FrozenArbiter wrote: Well for one, we saw Pillars post here and I think he works on sc2 (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm almost certain it was insinuated/stated somewhere but there's soooooooo many threads/posts).
Maybe I just jumped to conclusions.
Anyway, mnm is well connected, I'm sure she knows what she's talking about!
Where did he post? Can you tell me his screen name or link me to his post please?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 21 2007 16:10 Gandalf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2007 15:10 FrozenArbiter wrote: Well for one, we saw Pillars post here and I think he works on sc2 (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm almost certain it was insinuated/stated somewhere but there's soooooooo many threads/posts).
Maybe I just jumped to conclusions.
Anyway, mnm is well connected, I'm sure she knows what she's talking about! Where did he post? Can you tell me his screen name or link me to his post please? Well, I think he first posted in the Blizzard.com frontpage thread but he answered and confirmed his position here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=53506 =]
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On May 21 2007 16:10 Gandalf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2007 15:10 FrozenArbiter wrote: Well for one, we saw Pillars post here and I think he works on sc2 (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm almost certain it was insinuated/stated somewhere but there's soooooooo many threads/posts).
Maybe I just jumped to conclusions.
Anyway, mnm is well connected, I'm sure she knows what she's talking about! Where did he post? Can you tell me his screen name or link me to his post please?
In this big honkin' thread: http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=53506
Edit: Ah, beat me to it.
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United States20661 Posts
On May 21 2007 15:12 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2007 15:07 LastRomantic wrote: That forum has too many people trying to create a DoW or CnCGenerals clone. Fucking hell. Can't deal with that. T_T
I trust Blizzard to go and read actual community sites of hardcore fans [i.e. us] as well as Korean sites [PGR21, etc], because the people who just post only on Blizzard forums are most likely those who don't know of any other forums, and just went to Blizzard site after hearing SC2 announcement.
However, I'm not as faithful in Blizzard PR as I once was. Sandlot T-T What about sandlot, I think it was handled well? :O
Oh, some parts were nice. (Getting all players, getting tournament finished) Some parts were not so nice. (Draft, team icons)
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That forum gives me a headache.
osakanone wrote: Oh, and for those who think Micro/formation management is retarded, watch the work of a Korean player called SlayerS_BoxeR.
He makes use of it to the point where some units can't even strike him because of the time it takes them to get into range (some might remember using 3 marines against a zerg unit in a triangle formation. The zerg unit should have slaughtered the marines but instead of sitting like idiots, they moved and fired in turn and slayed it.)
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Hmmmmzz... Starcraft has 'attack-move' yeah?
Warcraft (2) didn't.
Would anyone have been happier if Starcraft didn't have attack-move?
If b.net had been as populated back then as it is now and if Warcraft 2 had had 'pros', do you suppose they'd complain that 'Attack-move takes the skill out of the game, only noobs want attack-move' and do you suppose Blizzard would listen to them?
And if Blizzard had listened to them and they had made Starcraft just a version of Warcraft 2 with upgraded graphics, would anyone have been happy about that?
No, they wouldn't.
When Blizzard made the move from Warcraft 2 to Starcraft, they initially made a futuristic warcraft with semi-3d graphics (just look at the alpha pictures if you can find them, SCII.org used to have them before it died from lack of interest). But people back then said 'I don't give a $!@% about the graphics, just make the gameplay better'.
So Starcraft became a better game: they downgraded to a graphics system similar to Warcraft 2 (pixelated 2d) and instead improved gameplay and Starcraft was a winner. Starcraft was so innovative, it was massively copied by other companies.
Then they started making WC3 and people were all like 'omg they're going to change the gameplay, quickly, kill Blizzard before this travesty comes to pass!'
Blizzard changed the gameplay again and the effect was great: WC3 was immensely popular, dozens of games popped up with heroes that leveled up and everything, WC3 is still the best of them though.
So what in the name of satan's ballsack makes you think that SC2 wouldn't have gameplay changes too? For that matter how can you even think that SC2 could even become popular if it didn't, in part, build on WC3's innovations?
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I died a little inside reading the suggestions forum.
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