EPTNewbie Mafia XL - Page 18
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Warent
Sweden205 Posts
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jampidampi
Finland386 Posts
On April 06 2013 16:25 Obzy wrote: Trying to follow guidelines on what sort of behavior people find scummy is pointless, it's been well proven even in our newbie game that we are willing to adapt. Scumminess indicators are not a thing that are engrained since birth. I feel like he was just trying to generate conversation and promote a positive town atmosphere - in the same way that my first few posts, upon re-reading, look sorta pointless. I was trying to help get the thread started, so we didn't have an empty day 1 that we couldn't draw good conclusions from. But why didn't continue talking about the things discussed then and instead brought up something else that doesn't serve a purpose? Bluefishing!? How in the world did you get that? Literally no matter what, the proper answer is to say VT. If Ravens had claimed VT, scum would know that he claimed VT. If he's blue, he doesn't have to tell the truth! The question looked like meaningless banter; if it was malicious, it was incredibly shallow, and calling it Bluefishing is absurd in the extreme. (imo ^^) Can you explain why a townie would ask that question? There is no way the answear is going to be alignment indicative in any way. Hehe I like being told that I'm liked though :0 It's motivating! Legitimately thinking that I was strongly town at that point may have been a bit much, but he didn't say that. I feel like you're trying to build a mountain out of a molehill here, and the connection is not as strong as you are making it out to be. He himself implied that it was a townread at the time. Blues also care about their image, though, presumably. They're trying to act like they are just VTs, but without denying information to town. And here, I think that if Rainbows was able to actually form a wagon on Saraf, it would have more to it than just this piece of information. It would be a terrific plan if they were scumbuddies and Rain had the amount of thread presence necessary to direct AND THEN UNDIRECT an entire lynch, several days in - but that's some tinfoil hat stuff right there. As such - I do not think that your case has merit. I'm not sure if it makes you scum or not, though - and I wish that Rain hadn't absolutely fucking exploded when you posted it lol. Does that answer the question to your satisfaction? Does his response to my case look like a townies response? He is overemotional and instantly OMGUSSES me. He missinterprets my logic. He clearly feels the pressure but still calls the case BS. How is this a townie response? In addition to everything I have already posted regarding Rainbow's innocence and my townread on him, I suppose I could also point out this - And these quotes are a pain to get - If he is scum, why is he antagonizing everyone one at a time, writing cases whimsically and without warning, dropping them at a feather's touch - almost if not always because he himself decided another case was better? I'm not verbose enough to explain this in a poetic way, but he's too batshit crazy to be scum at this point in time. (In a good way ^^;; )(...Imo. =P) The first few fall into the trolly start category and I don't think anyone could think of them as serious. He votes for Smancer for not answearing his question that by his own words meant nothing. He votes on Saraf totally missinterpreting Sarafs post. Do these votes hold any weight? I see them as scum trying to look for potential misslynches. His case on Raven has some good points but the others just bad. Then he OMGUSSES me and switches back to Raven. I see 1 vote that has a clear meaning. And I just noticed that he calls Raven null at the end of his case. | ||
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jampidampi
Finland386 Posts
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
VOTE COUNT: TheRavensname (2) Rainbows (3) Smancer (0) Saraf (0) jrkirby (3) JarJarDrinks, Smancer, nobodywonder jampidampi (0) Note Voting: Saraf, jrkirby, Fishgle, Moloch Someone is set to be lynched, but I don't know who! Will update as soon as I checked with the others. Deadline is in roughly 13 hours. Voting is mandatory. If you see your vote (or anyone else') out of place please inform me or someone else on the hosting team so that we can correct it. | ||
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Smancer
United States379 Posts
If you call whiskey and Advil PM going to bed, its more like passing out. With my huge fatness it is the only way to sleep :-) Earlier I based my case on kirby voting Rainbows. I thought Rainbows was doing a good job of getting the ball rolling and I thought jkirbys vote on him was scumy. Then he thought Rainbows was talking to him However based on the course of the night, between TRN, jamp and Rainbows I think we have a scum. The problem is to figure out who. I actually don't like Rainbows case against TRN. My opinion is that his case boils down to TRN was lurking. TRNs reaction seemed normal. What didn't make sense is jampidampi. His case against Rainbows really was bad. On April 06 2013 15:03 jampidampi wrote: Rainbows says how he likes Obzy. If you look at any mafia games posts, when someone likes someone, he thinks that guy is town. Just look at the list posts in this game: "I don't like XXX" is used in contexes, where people think XXX is scummy. Yet when I ask him to explain his liking of Obzy, he says he liked the name and that he has posted a lot, when at the time, Obzy had three posts. If look at those three posts, that is not a good basis for a town read. On April 06 2013 15:03 jampidampi wrote: This scummy since Rainbows clearly cares his image. I don't understand this. I want to find the scum, but, I also care about my image. I am town I want people to think I am town too. In regards to your point about Rainbows thinking someone was town. I think Rainbows has had more scum reads in this game so far than anyone. Lastly your demand for Rainbows to answer your questions is just silly. On April 06 2013 14:00 jampidampi wrote: Rainbows you better answear my questions. NOW So late in the game, when the focus has entirely shifted, you want him to go back and answer questions on policy? On April 05 2013 14:20 jampidampi wrote: Rainbows, what is the purpose for this post? Why should we tell beforehand what kind of behaviour we see as scummy? And your other big question you demand answered is why he made this comment: On April 05 2013 12:57 Rainbows wrote: I like you, Obzy. Those are your big questions? That has nothing to do with the current case he made against TRN. Or any of the recent pages for that matter. ##Unvote ##Vote:jampidampi Rainbows why are you sticking to your TRN vote and not voting for jampidampi after you saw how bad his case was. | ||
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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
On April 06 2013 15:18 Rainbows wrote: SCUM DON'T WANT TO BE THE CENTER OF ATTENTION YOU RETARD You and Ray were the center of attention last game... worked pretty well for you guys then. | ||
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jampidampi
Finland386 Posts
And like half of Rainbows cases were really bad. Look at his case on Saraf. A bunch of missinterpretings and lies. His case on nobodywonder? Picks up one post, says that nobodywonder doesn't have a read on Rainbows, when wonder gave his read on him in the post Rainbows bought up. Rainbows calls out Ravens for not giving his opinion on nobodywonder, even though Ravens called him dump town. And do you think Rainbows reacted to my case in a townie way? | ||
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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
On April 06 2013 21:40 Smancer wrote: Rainbows why are you sticking to your TRN vote and not voting for jampidampi after you saw how bad his case was. Probaly same reason he was voting Saraf over NW when he thought Saraf could be town and NW was just scummy: Because he doesn't feel like it. For someone who is upset over a lack of logic in this game, hes being pretty illogical. | ||
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Saraf
United States160 Posts
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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
On April 06 2013 22:42 Saraf wrote: TRN: I was looking over the thread trying to put cases together last night when Rainbows blew up and decided "fuck it, I'm just gonna go to bed". Now that I'm well-rested I'll be going through everyone's filter and dropping a vote. But I do appreciate you noticing the lurk, I just didn't have patience for the shitfest at midnight. Fair enough. | ||
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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
On April 06 2013 22:26 jampidampi wrote: Rainbows giving Obzy a townread based on Obzys first three posts doesn't matter? And like half of Rainbows cases were really bad. Look at his case on Saraf. A bunch of missinterpretings and lies. His case on nobodywonder? Picks up one post, says that nobodywonder doesn't have a read on Rainbows, when wonder gave his read on him in the post Rainbows bought up. Rainbows calls out Ravens for not giving his opinion on nobodywonder, even though Ravens called him dump town. And do you think Rainbows reacted to my case in a townie way? I really dislike the fact that Rainbows didn't seem to care even before his explosion. Go and look at his cases, theres not just misinterpretations, there are flat out ignorings of things that are being stated in the same post as the ones he uses as evidence. | ||
Obzy
United States525 Posts
Hi Warent~ I'll answer as best I can, then I'm gonna finish up this day9 vid and head to bed lol. Paused in part 3 ^^ That's correct, I don't mind that Rain completely misinterpreted Saraf's intent. I feel like everybody noticed this, and it was mentioned frequently (as Rain has been the center of attention), and Rain absolutely refused to re-read it and just kept trailblazing with different scumreads and hasn't looked back. Not really a way that I'd desire to play, personally - but I don't really think that there can be a meaningful distinction drawn between town and scum for misinterpreting something like that and never looking back. + Show Spoiler + And if there was one, it would be that scum wouldn't fail to correct something that seemed sort of obvious lol. Regarding Raven - the thing that sort of clicked with me was the meta argument - I mean, he was one of the players that I was content with lynching at the time (and still am, of course - at the moment) due to not being a solid townread, and my townreads have the votes atm -_-;; Rain's argument is reasonable, but really boils down to "He's got no reads (that I like and respect and stuff)." The line "I hate to meta people, but TRN in previous games was active, scumhunting, and voted early Day 1. He's reserving his vote right now which irks me. He has done no scumhunting this game and is teetering on the edge of null on everybody." made me look at the activity level in his previous game, and it looked quite different - and I didn't want to take excuses into account. I will try to (if I don't get lazy) take a more in-depth look at his posts in the previous game compared to his posts here tomorrow, ignoring the activity level due to his illness - but I'm not much good at detailed analysis lol. My metric was activity level, which is potentially flawed, if the activity dropoff is entirely due to illness. Even if I ended up concluding "Well, I guess I can't tell the difference between the games :["... That would just convince me that I was bad at metaing people, and he STILL didn't have any reads, so he's still the same level of scumread as any others. I'll try to be able to speak more accurately about the difference in his play this game and his play last game tomorrow, if i don't get annoyed at the time investiture lol. If someone else wants to do it that'd be terrific  sigh my internet went out last night at like 1:18 and i finished writing up this message at like 1:25 and it's 1:45 and I fucking quit I'm going to bed I'll post this when I get up tomorrow and then I'll read the thread. But to re-emphasize on what I think your post starting on page 18 was - I did indeed notice the same thing everyone else did regarding Rain's Saraf mistake, and I still don't really get how people apparently went "Ah, a clear mistake. He must be scum." *shrug* anyways going to bed. you should get this tomorrow morning [for me. quite a bit later for you. my apologies  ]So last night I wrote this post and then my internet went out - I spent a bit trying to fix it and then gave up and went to bed. It's a response to Warent's questions - I haven't read past his first post on page 18 yet, i'll go ahead and do that now lol. just got up. | ||
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Warent
Sweden205 Posts
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jampidampi
Finland386 Posts
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
##Unvote TheRavensName ##Vote JampiDampi I still haven't gone over your filter from last game ^^ Until I do, my thoughts on meta might just be wrong, and in that case, you're merely lurking and being elusive like several other people. Jampi, though - But why didn't continue talking about the things discussed then and instead brought up something else that doesn't serve a purpose? None of it served a purpose. When I look at Rainbows' filter, everything before On April 05 2013 13:19 Rainbows wrote: Now that the abhorrent spamming is over by me, I want everyone to grace us with their presence asap. Talk about what little has occured so far, or anything. I pretty much think is pointless and non-alignment-indicative. Fluffy, yes. Trying to get the thread started and encourage rather than shut down conversation? Also yes. It doesn't really matter whether or not he kept talking about the same useless things, and instead introduced something else useless, IMO. Can you explain why a townie would ask that question? There is no way the answear is going to be alignment indicative in any way. I think he was just bantering. It sounded like the sort of thing that debears/mr.cc were chatting about back in forth in my first game, newbie XXX, and they were both town. He himself implied that it was a townread at the time. Well, cool. I guess I'm supertown then. I don't see how something like that would make him scum, in any case - -; Being seen as town != being seen as VT. If a blue seems like a VT, how the heck does he claim if it comes to that? And blues know they are on the towns side, se they don't need to care to look like town. It comes naturally. Scum on the other hand, do care that they are seen as townie. They need to survive and not be lynched. They have a fear that people think they are scum. So they care that people see them as town. Heh. If a blue seems like a VT, he won't need to claim. The only ones worried about whether or not their actions will permit them to claim blue are scum, since they would expect to eventually HAVE to claim. Real blues shouldn't need to claim. (Unless you're Rainbows and go insane and claim too early and maybe ragequit. hehe :l) Does his response to my case look like a townies response? He is overemotional and instantly OMGUSSES me. He missinterprets my logic. He clearly feels the pressure but still calls the case BS. How is this a townie response? In my first game, when someone made a case on me that (in retrospect) was clearly misinterpreting the facts, I absolutely blew up at him and panicked. Overemotional, immediate omgus, I completely ignored his logic, which was a little silly because as I was VT, it couldn't've been perfect ^^ - Why the heck would I call that a scumtell when I have done it myself? lol Regarding Rain on Saraf - it amuses me that in your last paragraph, you say that his vote on Saraf was unserious, but in your other paragraph I didn't specifically quote, you say that his vote on Saraf was to set up for later. At this point, I would rather vote you than Ravens. I'll tell you the same thing I'd like to tell all people I am voting - If you don't want me to think you're scum, find me a scum that's not one of my townreads and convince me and everybody else that they are scum. If it's good enough, logical enough, etc - then we'll hit scum, and you'll survive an additional day. And if you can't do that without hitting my townreads, you're the lynch. :3 | ||
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Warent
Sweden205 Posts
TRN: Jampi: Why are you calling Rainbows out for policy lynching? He seems to have made it pretty clear he hates policy discussion in general, and he has yet to really use it in any of his previous games. Jrk: Postig at random people is actually how rainbows plays. Look at the previous two newbie mini games for proof of that. Do you have another scum read? Or is the phrase other guy just referring to the lurkers? Doesn't this look like TRN pointing out that Rainbows behavior is just Rainbow being Rainbow, I fail to understand why he would do that (early on) if he were hoping for a lynch against him? | ||
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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
First off - fuck you rainbows, for being such an arrogant emotional mess. Here's a tip: it's less about what you say, and more about how you depict it. You didn't make any friends because of your abrasive behavior. I understand you were forced to reveal so you wouldn't get lynched, but it was your own damn fault that everyone suspected you. second - fuck you rainbows, if you're actually abandoning the game. third - THERAVENSNAME, WARENT, JAMPIDAMPI why are your votes still on rainbows? Are you guys implying that rainbows' reveal was a fake? If it were fake, there's a huge chance someone would counter-reveal, making it a terrible move for scum. it just doesn't make any sense for him to be scum, no matter how badly he plays. 4th - i think obzy has done a good job explaining further reasons as to why it's unlikely that rainbows is scum. 5th - someone asked about a comment i made about a read on Moloch. disregard it. we have bigger fish to fry now. plus, it was an early-game hunch. Moloch's posts have gotten a lot more substantive and level-headed from since i got the read. 6th - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359¤tpage=18#345 - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359¤tpage=12#231 I really think this is the best lead we have so far, coupled with the fact that he's still pushing a lynch on rainbows, who just revealed as the vigilante. ##Vote:jampidampi | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
On April 07 2013 02:31 Warent wrote: Sadly I'm on my way out... but yeah, perhaps I'm overreacting on his mistake, perhaps - but I still fail to see how you can be so darn certain he is town. He's my strongest townread. I could always be wrong, I've only played one game before. But I'll eat my hat [I do not own a hat] if he is not town. Lynching my strongest townread is something INCREDIBLY STUPID lol. Honestly, I don't like the votes on Kirby either! I explained that quite some time ago, On April 06 2013 10:55 Obzy wrote: At the moment, I would like to lynch out of a pool that includes everyone _other than_ Smancer, Fish, Rain, me, and Kirby. More detailed posting from everybody else would be terrific, although I will (of course) not say no to detailed posting from ye other four ^^ Specifically, I would like some general reads. A full list isn't entirely necessary, but we should consider beginning to consolidate IMHO, and I don't like our current two vote leaders as lynches right now. here and a few posts back, where I note that I didn't have a solid read (town or scum - I think he posted in between, because I originally wrote "me, and surprisingly Kirby" and deleted it cause it looked dumb) on Kirby at the time. As a result, I do not like where JarJar, Nobodywonder, Warent, RavensName, and Jampi have placed their votes - If my vote-target doesn't change, that's fine, scum can put their vote on my townreads. I can give that permission I suppose But you other 3-4 ought to change. I'm less certain that Kirby is a bad lynch compared to Rain, but he's definitely, definitely worse than Jampi is right now. | ||
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Warent
Sweden205 Posts
First of all, I'm can't be sure of this, but I've decided to stick with my vote on Rainbow, for the main reason outlined below. First and foremost I see no reason what so ever for a townie to lie + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359¤tpage=8#148 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359¤tpage=17#338 My point is that all his behavior could very easily have been an act, trying to make us believe that he is just "to butt crazy to be a scum", he did trick everyone last game with a fake claim - I don't think he is stupid. Secondly, Lynching Rainbow will, according to my judgement, give us lots of valuable information. If he would flips green, everyone who has been defending him will look very, very townie - and those of us making cases against him has some explanation to do... You could argue that this is true for all lynches, but Rainbow is the case were most players have expressed opinions. Thirdly: Outbursts, Aggression (?), irrationality, rage quitting (?), And a vigilant claim on top of that... Well, to say it Rainbow style: Warent no like. Then, perhaps, I'm biased since I value logic and rationality. | ||
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