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Having the option to live forever is good, doesn't mean you actyally have to take the option.
I for one want to see a day where we can sip wine on battlecruisers, get a spunge bath on a medivac and pontificate on the meaning of the universe with a "high" templar. My grand grand grand grand (you get the idea) children will marvel at their grandx4father's military prowess as I command 4 simultanously nuking of zerg hatcheries.
Yes. Who wouldn't want to see that?
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On March 31 2013 16:40 sths wrote: Having the option to live forever is good, doesn't mean you actyally have to take the option.
I for one want to see a day where we can sip wine on battlecruisers, get a spunge bath on a medivac and pontificate on the meaning of the universe with a "high" templar. My grand grand grand grand (you get the idea) children will marvel at their grandx4father's military prowess as I command 4 simultanously nuking of zerg hatcheries.
Yes. Who wouldn't want to see that? A person who believes in a galactic peace.
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On March 31 2013 16:37 ooni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 16:32 SheepleArePeopleToo wrote: Seriously, with all the bullshit happening today. Don't you think death is the only way out.
I don't know about you, but I don't want to live to deal with all this bullshit society has put up forever (I won't be specific about what because I know everyone would get mad). Not saying I want to die now but come on, if you live forever you'd see various shit that would make you want to kill yourself. And if you look at history, it's just shit on a merry-go-round I agree, our society is pretty fked up. However, I believe society will get better. I mean imagine the life in the 50's, then 1900 then before that... Just keep looking back. We have advanced (though do not know how much), our sense of morality allowed us to put forward human rights, environmental protection policies and such. And these advances are only getting better. Maybe we do live in a fked up society, however, your parents were living in a worse society, and their parents before that. Perhaps, the society will suddenly get worse but not according to the current projection.
You mean decadence?
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On March 31 2013 15:54 Aterons_toss wrote: As someone who very recently started studying a bit of robotic and is looking forward to ( hopefully ) work in the field of bionics ( hence i read a few things about it ) id say no... it won't be possible.
Let's consider you live to be 80 ( so it's year 2073 ) and you are relatively healthy... you might have a chance to see the people that are "starting" to become "immortal" but unless you are a billionaire you won't be able to have a go at it. I believe the most positive point of view I ever read about having a completely robotic body estimated it would take at least until 2060 and that brain transfer will likely only be possible 10-20 years later.
But you have to also take in consideration that the estimations we have now could be the equivalent of Space odyssey in the 50s, so although people approximate this things now based on the fact that the brain connected prosthesis industry is growing very fast and it's looking very promising in 20 years people might just loss interest and research founding from states could drop up until the point where it would take hundreds of years more to achieve what you want.
And last when you see this "industry" hit its prime you will likely have each and every church goer out on the streets protesting about it, so you could go as far as to say that it might get banned/frowned upon by the state in countries like America, Russia, Polland, Mecix, Argentina, Brazil and even England,France or Spain.
So if we are to be pessimistic you will have only a handful of European countries, China and Japan with private developers that research the things you need for "cyborgs" and do so mostly for immediate commercial purposes and a handful of universities that get state founds to study the field. So even if you are Warren Buffet , one of the Waltons or a king in one of the Arab emirates you will still have to hang in til about 2080-2100 to become (relatively) "immortal".
Your failing to consider the advancements in general medicine. Chances are, if your below 30 (especially if your a young child) you will live at least to be 100 years old. And this is simply due to better treatments and so on.
Also, unless some drastic happens, I seriously doubt religion will have much say in matters like these in 80 years. Especially in European countries like UK and France. (They are pretty much secular in most issues already.)
And those who say they wouldn't want to live forever, you're missing the point. While immortality does by definition say that you can't die, what we are really talking about here is freeing us from the shackles of our biological clock. (Be it through reversing aging, transplants or us becoming one with machines.)
I fully agree - living for ever does sound dull. But what we are offered here is immortality - until we choose to end our lives. And for me, that sounds just fine. And I can't see why anyone would not want that. But then again, most TLers are young and don't really understand what it is to be like 80. (Myself included.)
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On March 31 2013 16:56 NonFactor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 15:54 Aterons_toss wrote: As someone who very recently started studying a bit of robotic and is looking forward to ( hopefully ) work in the field of bionics ( hence i read a few things about it ) id say no... it won't be possible.
Let's consider you live to be 80 ( so it's year 2073 ) and you are relatively healthy... you might have a chance to see the people that are "starting" to become "immortal" but unless you are a billionaire you won't be able to have a go at it. I believe the most positive point of view I ever read about having a completely robotic body estimated it would take at least until 2060 and that brain transfer will likely only be possible 10-20 years later.
But you have to also take in consideration that the estimations we have now could be the equivalent of Space odyssey in the 50s, so although people approximate this things now based on the fact that the brain connected prosthesis industry is growing very fast and it's looking very promising in 20 years people might just loss interest and research founding from states could drop up until the point where it would take hundreds of years more to achieve what you want.
And last when you see this "industry" hit its prime you will likely have each and every church goer out on the streets protesting about it, so you could go as far as to say that it might get banned/frowned upon by the state in countries like America, Russia, Polland, Mecix, Argentina, Brazil and even England,France or Spain.
So if we are to be pessimistic you will have only a handful of European countries, China and Japan with private developers that research the things you need for "cyborgs" and do so mostly for immediate commercial purposes and a handful of universities that get state founds to study the field. So even if you are Warren Buffet , one of the Waltons or a king in one of the Arab emirates you will still have to hang in til about 2080-2100 to become (relatively) "immortal". Your failing to consider the advancements in general medicine. Chances are, if your below 30 (especially if your a young child) you will live at least to be 100 years old. And this is simply due to better treatments and so on. Also, unless some drastic happens, I seriously doubt religion will have much say in matters like these in 80 years. Especially in European countries like UK and France. (They are pretty much secular in most issues already.) And those who say they wouldn't want to live forever, you're missing the point. While immortality does by definition say that you can't die, what we are really talking about here is freeing us from the shackles of our biological clock. (Be it through reversing aging, transplants or us becoming one with machines.) I fully agree - living for ever does sound dull. But what we are offered here is immortality - until we choose to end our lives. And for me, that sounds just fine. And I can't see why anyone would not want that. But then again, most TLers are young and don't really understand what it is to be like 80. (Myself included.)
Not even religious but religion wont be as small as you think in this lifetime.
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Is this idealogy yours or have you been initiated into it? To think that it is the belief in a creator that has caused these troubles is naive and dangerous.
If you spend some time researching history, you will see that it is the manipulation behind the church/organized religions that is to blame. Orchestrating wars is only the tip of the iceberg with these people, mass manipulation is the true crime you should be upset out.
For more information or for an overview of what the future might be , your search words are: Novus ordo seclorum
It is the fact that it is possible to manipulate people through these means. At least with science people are more educated in their decisions, and take steps to ensure their right/true.
And as for initiation, I'm in my own cult any joiners?
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Considering we can't reliably cure most cancers yet, and a big chunk of what we do generally is unsustainable, I don't think we'll be able to achieve immortality any time in our lifetime, if ever. Science is pretty sick awesome, but there is limits.
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Will sience be ready? Maybe, depends on what you consider as immortal. I would say yes.
But way more important: Will society be ready? Never. Immortality will need some heavy changes in the organism. And if i think about how hard it is to get i.e. transgenic food to the marked. It takes YEARS of approval and even then noone realy wants to use it. And that is only a minor change in the plants...
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I'd like to just not get old. Even if I die at like 75, I just want to look like I'm 25 for 50 years (I'm 28 now and I'm already noticing the long descent).
The ripple effects of even allowing people to live an extra 20 years on average would be incalculable. Think about how that would change the economy, people would be able to work longer, or play longer, or both. It would delay inheritance. It would allow people who are geniuses in their field to continue their work. Think about how it sometimes takes a lifetime to reach the point where one is able to make a breakthrough in their field, but then they die. What if they had an extra 20 years? Their momentum would continue.
Whether we'll see it. I doubt it. One of my biochemistry professors last year is studying aging. Basically they're stil trying to figure out what even causes aging. Shortening DNA telomeres? Oxidation? Other processes? Combination? We still don't even have a cure for male pattern baldness. I think we're more likely to see techniques/compounds that increase youthfulness, and might allow for a few more decades within our lifetime, but I'm doubtful of an all out cure. What's most likely going to be the method of granting immortality is genetic engineering. So those of us who are born already, might be at a disadvantage.
As for religion, there's really no way to say objectively if it's done more bad or more good. My opinion is that religion is so deeply rooted in our culture, that even if you're athiest 100%, there's still been so much influence on you that "X is bad, Y is good" that has it's roots in religion, it's hard to say. I think we'd be like African tribes if we never had religion in our culture/history where it's all about short term selfishness. Watch "Blood Diamond". Interestingly, I feel like the Starcraft universe is a pretty close depiction of what the future could be like once religious vestiges has continued to fade. The campaigns are basically "Blood Diamond" in space. I mean with so much treachery, traitors, manipulation, using violence just as often as diplomacy. Where might is almost always right, with the one exception of the love the characters have for one another which makes for a better story, but I think would be pretty much gone if the universe were really in such a state in the future.
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I find quite amusing that later you are born, the better if humanity keeps dodging anihilation (asteroid, random aliens with faster than light travel capabilities, Marvel villain, etc). We have the chance to do things ppl didn't even consider possible 50-500 years ago (internet, computers, robots, planes, going to the moon, etc). Our grand grand kids (dunno how many more years) might have the chance to live 200-300 years, travel to other planets, etc.
Thing of stargate sg-1, many of that stuff might be achievable.
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TLADT24919 Posts
sorry, doubt it lol. For one, there will always be death from other causes so even if you could reverse aging, there is still a chance you'll die from another cause. Second, I'm not sure it's even possible. Aging is due to oxygen radicals that chip away at your body as time passes. I just can't help but feel like there is more to it than that and that there isn't a ton we can do(didn't research much into causes of aging so my guess). Keep in mind that cells have a limit to their replication(read it somewhere) so even if you remove aging, eventually, your body won't keep recovering from any injuries. Third, as someone mentioned, doubt it'll be available to the common folk, likely those who have a ton of money to throw around. Going to space costs $20M so imagine cost of immortality? Finally, umm I forgot XD
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On March 31 2013 16:00 FSUrequiem wrote: I'm sorry in advance for anybody who is religious.
IMO (please keep this in mind) religion has caused so many problems in the world that as soon as everyone realizes it, they will stop being religious. Just think what would have happened if we all devoted our lives to science instead of gods. This could already be accomplished by now, and war would probably be non existant under the right circumstances.
Again, I'm sorry to all those who are religious, this is just my experience. I highly highly highly doubt that
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genetics + nano robot technology + AI
I totally believe in maybe 50 years we´ll see (when third world war won´t happen) that we will be able to alter many things of the human body. Not immortality like in Perry Rhodan but a form of longlivity.
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The universe is big, really really big. If I was immortal, there would be a lot of things that would keep me occupied. How long would it take to walk the Earth? By the time you finished, it would have changed. Walk it again? Come back in 3 million years and walk it. Study the new fauna and flora that have evolved. Track the life of a planet or planets. I think if my body was immortal, my mind would become something I never dreamed of. Give me mortality any day.
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I really hope so, but alas I think we'll miss it by a bit.
EDIT: I have that existential yuckiness in my stomach that I get when I think about death. Thanks, TL.
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Immortality is impossible as not even our universe is immortal or eternally sustainable, so no immortality wont ever happen.
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On March 31 2013 18:42 Celadan wrote: Immortality is impossible as not even our universe is immortal or eternally sustainable, so no immortality wont ever happen. Let's say "artificial life extension". True immortality is obviously impossible.
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I'm happy to say no, we won't be alive. I'm 26 right now and I don't think living forever would be cool at all.
1. It's bad for human evolution, because if people are staying alive, room will soon run out and we'll be forced to stop having children. 2. It's bad for innovation, for the same reason as reason 1. No new people means fewer and eventually no new ideas. Youth tends to think against the mainstream and a child's imagination is limitless. 3. You wil have to pay taxes all your life and probably work all your life, yes that's eternity. You can kiss that retirement goodbye. 4. Mental damage from past trauma's will continue to accumulate, even if your physical body doesn't age. There is evidence that seeing a loved one pass away, seeing a terrible accident or the like will imprint a permanent malformation in your ability to function normally all the time. Now I know that if people don't die, you won't be sad about it, but there will surely be other traumatic experiences to accumulate. 5. As a result of #4, we will all eventually go insane. I'm pretty sure no one wants to live forever (watch Highlander). Some people may take 300 years to realize this, and then end their life (if they still can).
That being said: I wouldn't mind becoming ~200 years old in a healthy state (still able to live by myself is important) to see how the world changes, watch my great grand children grow up and enjoy the good parts of life. I think 200 years is my personal limit though. I have been through a lot already and im only 26, I don't think I'd be able to handle it if for example my wife died now. For that I'm glad theres always an escape route out of life.
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I don't think being completely immortal is possible: even if you stop ther aging, you will die in a very long time (billins of years) because of entropy. Even universe will "die", unless some crazy scientist discover how to create free energy or something like that.
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