On January 22 2013 17:58 samurai80 wrote: once again a base trade into only winfestors remaining into zerg win...
pls stop your balance whining. it was just as gruesome when Roro lost like 15 broodlords to just storm.
I think most people here agree that the infestors winning ez pz at the end was kinda ..."sad" for such a good and even game.
also you can micro out of storms (which roro opted not to do) you cant micro vs infestors
Kinda difficult to micro broodlords out of storm.
But incredibly easy not to clump them like that.
I'm sure you guys saw those mass transfusions. If I had to choose between sparing APM to transfuse and trying to micro broodlords, which most liikely lowers their damage output, I think I'd choose to transfuse, just as the zerg player did.
On January 22 2013 18:05 DJHelium wrote: Rain can just camp the edge of the 4th base with a stalker or three, preventing the mining and making it less effective to use infestor energy vs him.
I think Roro could've just put a spine behind the mineral line and chilled his corruptors above so they could protect the drones. Not sure if that works though.
Did he even have corruptors left though? Probably could work but with blink it would still be more efficient to snipe spinecrawlers in those positions than going in head first into the forest
On January 22 2013 18:02 eGoRama wrote: Why would you try to push against infestors and 20 Spines? To lose your Archons and 1/2 of your Stalkers. Wasn't good decision imo.
Yeah. Not sure why Rain chose to attack there. His third was up much faster. All he needed was obs/cannon at third and some army to defend from infestor run by. Then he just needs 1-2 colo to deny mining on that base from the ridge. I think maybe he thought he was behind economically.
I agree with this. Roro had the better econ but Rain overestimated how big that advantage was. Plus, Rain had the base up faster which would help him close the gap quickly.
On January 22 2013 17:58 samurai80 wrote: once again a base trade into only winfestors remaining into zerg win...
pls stop your balance whining. it was just as gruesome when Roro lost like 15 broodlords to just storm.
I think most people here agree that the infestors winning ez pz at the end was kinda ..."sad" for such a good and even game.
also you can micro out of storms (which roro opted not to do) you cant micro vs infestors
Kinda difficult to micro broodlords out of storm.
But incredibly easy not to clump them like that.
I'm sure you guys saw those mass transfusions. If I had to choose between sparing APM to transfuse and trying to micro broodlords, which most liikely lowers their damage output, I think I'd choose to transfuse, just as the zerg player did.
Yeah, and split BLs before the battle while the vortex was active and while he was killing the mothership with his corruptors.
On January 22 2013 18:05 DJHelium wrote: Rain can just camp the edge of the 4th base with a stalker or three, preventing the mining and making it less effective to use infestor energy vs him.
I think Roro could've just put a spine behind the mineral line and chilled his corruptors above so they could protect the drones. Not sure if that works though.
Did he even have corruptors left though? Probably could work but with blink it would still be more efficient to snipe spinecrawlers in those positions than going in head first into the forest
I think he saved three of them. Well still dangerous since one fungal means certain death for stalkers in that case and Rain can't replace any of his army
The thing is that against infestors Rain wants to force that energy to be spent far away from his nexus. Without Splash he simply cannot deal with infestors by defending his third. So if he forces Roro to defend he can pin those infestors back home. at least he can ideally.... It's just bad design.
On January 22 2013 18:02 eGoRama wrote: Why would you try to push against infestors and 20 Spines? To lose your Archons and 1/2 of your Stalkers. Wasn't good decision imo.
This is why Rain lost. Those spines were prebuilt so they didn't cost RorO anything (in the sense that they were sunk costs). Never a good idea to lose units to static defenses in low econ scenarios.
Should have expanded and defended.
I think he was worried that if he defended, it would give Roro enough time to put up BL's again. Remember, he has no idea how much bank Roro still had. He probably felt he had the advantage on the ground in that moment and was trying to utilize it. It would take a while for Rain's expo to come back online and even longer to push out a new mothership. As you saw, Roro still had a ton of infestors, so it wouldn't be too difficult for him to scrape together 5-6 Broodlords and go back on the attack. It's easy for us to see because we have god vision, but for him as the player, it's a much tougher call.
After the main battle Rain saw that there are many Infestors - which means that Roro spend his gas on them not on broods + Roro was never able to take 5th base with 2 gases = low bank. Its better to try to defend your expand and build Stalker/Collosi combo then to walk down a ramp with 14 Infestors and 20 Spines and your army is 15 Stalkers and 3 Archons
On January 22 2013 18:02 eGoRama wrote: Why would you try to push against infestors and 20 Spines? To lose your Archons and 1/2 of your Stalkers. Wasn't good decision imo.
This is why Rain lost. Those spines were prebuilt so they didn't cost RorO anything (in the sense that they were sunk costs). Never a good idea to lose units to static defenses in low econ scenarios.
Should have expanded and defended.
I think he was worried that if he defended, it would give Roro enough time to put up BL's again. Remember, he has no idea how much bank Roro still had. He probably felt he had the advantage on the ground in that moment and was trying to utilize it. It would take a while for Rain's expo to come back online and even longer to push out a new mothership. As you saw, Roro still had a ton of infestors, so it wouldn't be too difficult for him to scrape together 5-6 Broodlords and go back on the attack. It's easy for us to see because we have god vision, but for him as the player, it's a much tougher call.
After the main battle Rain saw that there are many Infestors - which means that Roro spend his gas on them not on broods + Roro was never able to take 5th base with 2 gases = low bank. Its better to try to defend your expand and build Stalker/Collosi combo then to walk down a ramp with 14 Infestors and 20 Spines and your army is 15 Stalkers and 3 Archons
hmm good point about the no 5th = low bank. Although they had very few engagements before that point and things were sort of chaotic so maybe Rain wasn't sure? I don't know. I just know that the player doesn't have nearly as much info as we do. Also, rain had zero money, so it would take him quite a while to make colossi. Time in which Roro would be able to secure his expo and start making BLs again. I think he panicked when he saw all those spines rooting and got aggressive and then got owned by fungals.
I'm left really frustrated by that ending, it just felt so awkward to watch after that great game. I loved roro's ' fuck your warp prisms' spore crawler placement, rain's consistent good feedbacking of infestors, various bases being destroyed or canceled with harass and runbys. The little back and forth leading up to the epic mothership neuraling and then endless storms on the broodlords. Heck even roro's snipe of rain's expansion at the end was exciting ( made me miss coca doing that at mlg's and stuff) but that final forced fight was just ugly and depressing to watch.
On January 22 2013 18:02 eGoRama wrote: Why would you try to push against infestors and 20 Spines? To lose your Archons and 1/2 of your Stalkers. Wasn't good decision imo.
This is why Rain lost. Those spines were prebuilt so they didn't cost RorO anything (in the sense that they were sunk costs). Never a good idea to lose units to static defenses in low econ scenarios.
Should have expanded and defended.
exactly. infestor is fine now : its a support unit with great harass power. but against protoss deathball, mass it doesn't do any damage.
Infestor being "fine" is subjective and too early to tell. Majority of people still hate them . Blizz nerfed them a few times and they are probably still monitoring the situation. That aside, I find that the infestor is just a boring unit that doesn't create excitement. Who wants to watch the things the infestor do?
Holy shit. SKT defeated STX, the weakest team, in round 2 week 1. Then they never won a single match again. Their next and last R2 match is against KT, who isn't doing so hot lately as well.