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Where do you get that 9-3 from in TvT ?? But losing to Fantasy (10-2), and Bogus (10-4), who finished 3rd of the previous GSL is hardly being weak at TvT... To know where he stands, just look at today's games. He was a top tier player in his proleague all-kill, with a domination reminiscent of his BW days, all EG-TL players were constantly on the backfoot, behind, not being able to harass him and trying to play catch-up. Making excellent players look bad is a sign of a very good form.
I didn't look at the games in the U&D matches since I was unable to, but I'd be surprised if he was ridiculous.
I'd rank him as an ace in Proleague, and a regular middle class code S player, with options, since he's definitely there as far as skill goes, and his experience and consistency means he wouldn't like drop to code B in two seasons. Once he doesn't get surprised any more, I shudder
And it's coming from someone who doesn't like Flash. But I have to admit his strengthes.
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United States32587 Posts
mid Code S
excellent TvP questionable TvT good TvZ unmatched intangibles (effort, clutch, experience, etc etc)
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On January 07 2013 09:19 mrRoflpwn wrote: I would rank him as high Code A~ low Code S right now because of the the fact that he has failed to make it to Code S twice now. He is definitely very good as we see in proleague but when compared with the Code S talent he is not at their level.
variance - he is one of the worlds best players. The fact that he lost to baby, fantasy and bogus doesn't change anything, as those 3 guys are among the best in the world as well.
To be honest all the kespa terrans are insanely good and superior to the GSL terrans, and I am not looking at results, just how they play.
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Definitely a case of people having extraordinarily high expectations right out of the gate that weren't immediately met. At this point I think it is absolutely fair to say that mechanically he is top tier, he is still developing key instincts and I would say learning his opposition as well.
When you have an organization like KeSPA where players have been playing and competing against one another for so long in a single game, and all the sudden throw in a large injection of players it'll take some time to adapt. I would imagine learning new opponents is a rather large albeit overcome-able impasse at the moment.
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Low code S level. And his tvt isn't as weak as people like to claim. Stop looking at data from a stupidly small sample size and look at his games, his tvt is fine.
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I thought he was overrated but would show promising results eventually. I never though they would be this good, and he's still continuing to rise. I don't like the use of "He's Code S level" because the Code S-ness of things are just iffy to me, but I will admit he's nearing the top a lot quicker and farther than I thought.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 07 2013 09:27 insanet wrote: Now that Bisu sucks, Flash fans have taken the lead as the most annoying fans of all.
According to Fantasy, Bisu is actually good again now. I'm having my doubts still though. But I agree, the Flash/Stephano fans are pretty bad, and seeing them collide in the LR thread yesterday was absolutely hilarious.
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What ever flash is now wont matter. Because once the first GSL for HOTS happens he will be king.
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On January 07 2013 09:28 dbg wrote: hes the best terran player in the world
If he surpasses 4 Code S championships, when right now he can't even qualify, we'll talk.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36709 Posts
On January 07 2013 09:33 StreaK wrote: hes code F for Flash Omfg.... this... so much this...
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OP here. Lovely opinions thus far; and hopefully this thread doesnt turn into any flame war.
Question that few have tackled:
Is he among the best Kespa players on the same tier as Rain, Bogus (Innovation), Soulkey, Roro and the likes who have succeeded in getting to the elusive GSL: Code S? Or is he a tier below them overall?
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The problem with the top notch koreans is that Code S and Code A is almost the same fucking level.
Any Code A player can beat Sniper in a match. High skill caps between the korean pros doesn't exist yet.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 07 2013 09:35 LighT. wrote: OP here. Lovely opinions thus far; and hopefully this thread doesnt turn into any flame war.
Question that few have tackled:
Is he among the best Kespa players on the same tier as Rain, Bogus (Innovation), Soulkey, Roro and the likes who have succeeded in getting to the elusive GSL: Code S? Or is he a tier below them overall?
I think Flash is on equal footing with most of the top KeSPA players. He is not the best, but he is certainly among the top-5-or-so.
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On January 07 2013 09:35 BoB_KiLLeR wrote: The problem with the top notch koreans is that Code S and Code A is almost the same fucking level.
Any Code A player can beat Sniper in a match. High skill caps between the korean pros doesn't exist yet.
I agree with the sentiment that Code A and Code S are really close, but it's not fair to pick on Sniper. I personally feel the same way, he's a GSL champion that just doesn't inspire confidence. However, while any Code A player could beat any Code S player on a good day, keep in mind that it requires a good day. On average, the Code S player will be superior.
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i think many people underestimate just how much "luck" plays a factor in something like code S. At that level EVERYONE is extremely powerfull with god-tier mechanics and is practicing as hard as they can for the win, so sometimes i believe there truly is players that just wake up that morning and luck just blesses them with an incredible day where they "overperform" or maybe they might "underperform".
I believe all players at that high level have god-tier mechanics, and i believe what truly sets apart the highest players from the rest of the pack is having a higher level of "mind mechanics". I believe what makes flash truly great is really mechanics of the mind, not mechanics of the hands, because I believe at THAT LEVEL nearly all of the korean super-top pros have equal powers when it comes to mechanics of the hands.
So because all the super-top pros are all fairly equally powerful when it comes to mechanics of the hands, you can tell a player is great if he seems to rise above the pack through mechanics of the mind, and flash seems to be doing that and hes still rapidly improving.
But at the end of the day whether or not you think flash is doing that is all a matter of opinion. Its all a gut feeling whether or not someone thinks or doesnt think he is a top10 player at the moment
the general skill gauge ive been using recently is looking at whichever MLG is the most recent MLG championship, normally the top4 korean players there are pretty strong and arguably in the worlds top10 at the moment (not including foreigners sadly just because such as when huk beat MC at a MLG, I didnt count him as a top 10 player sure he did very well but i mean there probably was 10 koreans in korea at that time that were better than him. when it comes to korean players however imo the top4 koreans at each MLG are most likely in the worlds top 10. but also remember the top10 probably changes every month so this "determining whether someone is top10" mindset is all still just likely mostly formed through opinions anyway so take it with a grain of salt
anyway what do you see when you look at last mlg? bomber, flash, leenock, and life all in the top 4. to be honest, those are also probably players in the top10 currently. Its funny how iffy bomber is though, he will crush through an entire tournament when hes having a good day and then go lose in the finals. Id say fantasy, parting, rain and players in that calibur are also in the top10 currently
It really is 100% opinion and there are no facts to support what anyone believes in this matter, It all just comes down to gut feeling and at the end of the day its all opinions. But IMO flash is currently a top10 player in the world, and if hypothetically he were to play a best of 3 against every player in code S next week I bet he would win over 80% of those games.
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I think he is on the status that DRG was before destroying everyone on the GSL, when he used to all kill tons of people untill he got used to the GSL format.
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he's still a couple level below Fantasy and MVP lol. As right now Fantasy is the best, MVP is injured so no comment.
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On January 07 2013 09:41 tuho12345 wrote: he's still a couple level below Fantasy and MVP lol. As right now Fantasy is the best, MVP is injured so no comment. Would you mind explaining your reasons for Fantasy being seeded 1, while MVP 2? Just out of curiousity.
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On January 07 2013 09:28 Waxangel wrote: mid Code S
excellent TvP questionable TvT good TvZ unmatched intangibles (effort, clutch, experience, etc etc)
How is his TvT questionable?
All of his macro TvT's have been great.
Vs STC at MLG, Ryung in GSL, Taeja last night, and even the OSL series vs Last was good.
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