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Before nerf widow mine could one hit:
Stalker Zealot Sentry High Templar Probe Interceptor Oracle
After the widow mine could one hit:
Sentry High Templar Probe Interceptor
(Not including cloaked units)
What should be the purpose of the widow mine be in TvP? Strong, ground splash damage? Well, I would suggest a buff to the tank for that...
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In regards to these balance changes all I have to say is: WTF?
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On December 20 2012 15:27 ETisME wrote: don't you all think that one shotting drops and warp prism was pretty overpowered? (or in the sense that it makes drop play not so viable considering the risk and return) I reckon the nerf is too strong against toss but it is a good nerf against terran and zerg because nothing much has changed. It's good to have drop play back as well.
Euhm, what?
Widow mines were never capable of one-shotting warp prisms. I don't know where you got that idea. They were capable of one-shotting medivacs, but with the improved medivac, especially boost, I really didnt think that drops werent possible anymore, still dropped in TvT opponents to death.
And how would it be a good nerf against erran and zerg if nothing changes? Now you are saying that the nerf isnt needed against toss, and doesnt do anything against zerg and terran. Well in that case just dont do the nerf.
Anyway the main problem is that blizzard first needs to define the role of the widow mine. They don't have a clue which role it should fulfill, so the balance changes are going all over the place. Initially we had the shredder. The shredders role was defending outlying positions, but was removed because surpringly everyone dropped them in enemy mineral lines.
Now we got widow mines, they are pretty bad at defending outlying positiongs, and still dropped into enemy mineral lines. Blizzard claimed it was to help siege tanks with defending flanks, similar to mines in BW. However they are not practical for that. You can use them en mass on your flanks to slow down an enemy, but while that is fine for essentially free mines, you arent going to make large minefields when they cost money and population.
With the recent changes I get the idea blizzards wants them used as shown a few times: Select all mines, run into enemy army, burrow. Single target nerf is pretty big if you use that against toss air for example, less if you do it against a zerg army. But the main question should first be: Do you want that to be the primary role of the widow mine? I dont, not that anyone cares about what I think . That imo it shouldnt be the primary role, doesnt mean it never should be possible, but should they be optimized for that?
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Still happy it's not OP as hella as it was in BW
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It really wasnt that bad. People were starting to figure out how to deal with them and they were becoming less and less effective. Only problem that people were complaining about was it hitting mutas beside that it fine and it is STILL 1 shot mutas so I dont understand this change at all.
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The mine is grossly overpowered in a lot of situations, and too strong against zerg in general. They're not going to completely break a match up just so that you can chose your favourite unit composition everytime.
I think the splash damage is what needs to go. Make it stronger, with less splash, and it'll be easier to balance towards usefulness vs P, without it being overpowered vs Z.
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Not even Spider Mines one shot units like the Dragoon in SC:BW. I really like the change. I'd like to see them up the splash damage, though!
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On December 20 2012 17:58 Arco wrote: Not even Spider Mines one shot units like the Dragoon in SC:BW. I really like the change. I'd like to see them up the splash damage, though!
Or down the supply to 1 and down the damages to 80. This way, more mines field, less random 1 hit shot mutas, and gives a better map control... it's just so much better.
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On December 20 2012 17:55 MilesTeg wrote: The mine is grossly overpowered in a lot of situations, and too strong against zerg in general. They're not going to completely break a match up just so that you can chose your favourite unit composition everytime.
I think the splash damage is what needs to go. Make it stronger, with less splash, and it'll be easier to balance towards usefulness vs P, without it being overpowered vs Z.
The widow mine is only overpowered if you dont get or dont know what detection is and like to clump units into one big ball before a-moving.
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The problem is not what units terran gets but what they do. Right now both hellbat and widow mine counter lings and little more.
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they should finally remove the luckbased single target damage completely and give the mine 2 splash modes:
ground splash: sth. like 60 dmg so that 3 mines kill all zealots, stalker, roaches, marauder etc.
and air splash: sth. like 30 dmg to that mines severely damage mass air units without negating airplay.
while reducing the supply cost to 1 supply and removing the upgrade that lets them burrow in 1 sec...they are mines and for defensive purposes. not to shift-click-burrow 20 mines under a super expensive opponent army.
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On December 20 2012 18:02 Loccstana wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 17:55 MilesTeg wrote: The mine is grossly overpowered in a lot of situations, and too strong against zerg in general. They're not going to completely break a match up just so that you can chose your favourite unit composition everytime.
I think the splash damage is what needs to go. Make it stronger, with less splash, and it'll be easier to balance towards usefulness vs P, without it being overpowered vs Z. The widow mine is only overpowered if you dont get or dont know what detection is and like to clump units into one big ball before a-moving.
That's not OP. OP is when a unit is able to shut down entire tech trees, think Gatling gun vs. Viking horde. Example, widow mines hitting cloaked units and range 12 for 500 damage.
The drilling claw upgrade give the widow mine unparalleled flexibility to use as either an offensive, defensive or support role. I love Ryung's dynamic use of widow mines to ambush, assault and contain his opponents.
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On December 20 2012 17:58 Arco wrote: Not even Spider Mines one shot units like the Dragoon in SC:BW. I really like the change. I'd like to see them up the splash damage, though! Spider mines in BW were essentially free (or at least part of a package deal) and didnt take population. Are you really comparing them 1 on 1 to HotS spider mines?
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On December 20 2012 17:11 ledarsi wrote: Blizzard should be actively trying to discourage using mines like banelings. The baneling never was a very interesting unit, and now they want to make another one that functions slightly differently? No. The mine should be a powerful positional defensive unit. And it should hurt a LOT.
Come on, Blings are super-cool, and can cause so much tension in a match. Absolutely awesome unit. Just listen to the reaction of the crowd when some bling-bombs explode under a whole group of marines...
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Russian Federation216 Posts
i wont use them just because they destroy my own units and this happends not because of me. i just cant give my opponent ability to destroy my own units. well, they're pretty good alone, but this is not "core" unit, as blizzard wanted.. funny that only mines cant be added to deathball, since hellbats, vipers, oracles, tempest and locusts is designed right for improve deathball power
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the concept of a mine thats basically a burrowed missile tower and can shoot air is so bad that is in effect unfixable
with the amount of patches left before release im losing hope that hots will be worth their money for terran players
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On December 20 2012 18:18 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 17:58 Arco wrote: Not even Spider Mines one shot units like the Dragoon in SC:BW. I really like the change. I'd like to see them up the splash damage, though! Spider mines in BW were essentially free (or at least part of a package deal) and didnt take population. Are you really comparing them 1 on 1 to HotS spider mines?
this!
you had 3 of them and a vulture for just 75 minerals and no gas at all
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I think the only way to save the Widow Mine conceptually at this point is to make it an effective tool against Protoss, while making it less effective against Zerg. The Mine is far too powerful at shutting down Zerg harass, while very weak against Protoss harass. The best compromise to me seems to make it deal more damage, removing the splash, and making it more mass-able.
-Reduce to 1 supply -Buff primary target damage to a number high enough to kill all protoss gateway units (170-ish) -Remove the splash damage -Remove ability to hit air -Possibly return the ability to hit air through an upgrade at the same tech level as Drilling Claws. Possibly swap Drilling Claws with this upgrade.
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Widow mines are currently terrible. They do nothing to promote positional play. The 1 second burrow upgrade just allows them to be used in a deathball...yay.
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The Widow Mine was overly powerful before, and now is just powerful. They said in their explaination that they didn't like it 1 hitting things like the Banshees. Now it still does a ton of damage. After the patch it still (1 shots mutas, 1 shots huge groups of lings, 1 shots Banelings, 1 shots Infestors, 1 shots hydras, 1 shots all workers, 1 shots Sentries, 1 shot observers, 1 shots High templar and Dark templar, and it 1 shots interceptors). I don't really see why the OP of this thread and many others think that this unit needs to 1 shot everything in the game. They are still strong. Your argument about sample size can also be used against you, there isn't a big enough sample size to say one way or the other. Blizzard is just trying stuff out, they are making a ton of changes. Expect more to come.
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