EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXXII - Page 61
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
yamato77
11589 Posts
| ||
|
AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
and do you mean now, or is patience a virute | ||
|
AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
Wasn't I someone with an intent to do stuff? | ||
|
Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Arnarnion (1) Yamato77 Yamato77 (1) AxleGreaser Not Voting: Everybody else You have ~34 hours until deadline | ||
|
yamato77
11589 Posts
| ||
|
yamato77
11589 Posts
| ||
|
AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On December 10 2012 23:44 yamato77 wrote: Because it was going nowhere. He could not understand you or at least acted like he couldn't and I tried to make your posting more effective by pointing out what he kept getting confused by. He did not undertsand what I said first, after that he seemed to have no problem How did this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17129692 "I tried to make your posting more effective by pointing out what he kept getting confused by" Why choose to suddenly answer things put by kickstart? | ||
|
AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On December 10 2012 23:49 yamato77 wrote: By the way, I already know this is your scum read on me so cut to the chase and make your point. My point is that when other town players are doing things with intent to hunt scum, other town players stand back and watch. Often not being directly involved gives you the most accurate insights. It is scum that try to direct how other hunt scum. Is that not your understanding? In the end Oats flipped scum, as scum you knew that, and perhaps you id not know what I was looking for, but hat i was proceeding with intent was enough for you to want to interfere. Thats a strong scum tell for me. | ||
|
AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On December 10 2012 23:54 AxleGreaser wrote: My point is that when other town players are doing things with intent to hunt scum, other town players stand back and watch. Often not being directly involved gives you the most accurate insights. It is scum that try to direct how other hunt scum. Is that not your understanding? In the end Oats flipped scum, as scum you knew that, and perhaps you id not know what I was looking for, but hat i was proceeding with intent was enough for you to want to interfere. Thats a strong scum tell for me. A final question for you how would analyse this case against you Does it look bad for you? | ||
|
yamato77
11589 Posts
| ||
|
AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
| ||
|
AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On December 10 2012 23:55 yamato77 wrote: I fail to see how me posting that is scum motivated based solely on your perspective on the timing of the post. There were several posts in the sequence, you claimed they had an intent I do not see that when i read the actual posts. | ||
|
AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
Do you remember why you asked this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17179532 | ||
|
yamato77
11589 Posts
Is this really that important? | ||
|
AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
Have you noticed that too? | ||
|
Sylencia
Australia1057 Posts
| ||
|
AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
It is easy to get tunnel visioned. I will need to read this thread again | ||
|
yamato77
11589 Posts
It is no secret that I find Arn suspicious. His play up to this point in the game is highly suspect from a town standpoint. On day 1, his suspicions were mainly focused on Kick, and in fact one of his wordiest posts this game was made to this effect. But then, inexplicably, he backs off this suspicion and then ultimately hammers the vote on Oats. For reference, this is the timeline of the events of his play Day 1. On December 05 2012 11:21 Arnarnion wrote: Based on the general style in which players have been approaching the game I have a couple of reads First with regards to Yam Man, I have a bit of town read on him based mainly on the way he has been approaching the game by asking questions, even if they have been aggressive. This style of play seems to be harsh but information driven town play since it is actually creating an environment where conversation can actually move forward. This should be obvious given the fact we are still talking about it. If his move against Axle was scum motivated, to what end? He would possibly get Axle lynched and then be cast into immediate suspicion on D2, since he would called out for pushing a mis-lynch. This question oriented play style promotes clarity of peoples intentions, which is ultimate of town's goals In contrast, all of Dickstart's actions have seemed to be aimed towards stalling the game. First, and I've made this point a couple of times, his wishy washy approach to pointing FoS on Yam Man did not help players understand the possible intentions. The fact that he put suspicion on Yam without trying to ask Yam why he acted the way he did does not provide information from Yam on whether he is scum or not. Kick did not ask for Yam's opinion on the accusation and instead attempted to get our reads on Yam without really committing to his own. Why would a town do this? This seems like a very scummy play, trying to get a case on player moving the conversation forward without actually providing any strong evidence on why that player is scum and fishing for scum reads from the rest of town to get that player lynched. As for his case: Here he attacks Yam's use of pressure, which as I've already stated, seems to be more of a town play than scum. Also, going after weaker noobs is more indicative of a town looking for answers, and a scum player would be more focused on targeting noobs who were playing scummily. Kick also gives HIMSELF as an example of proper treatment of confused noobs, which basically says "Hey, guys look at what a good town I am!! I'm not picking on poor defenseless Axle, and anyone who does is clearly scum!" This is a shit argument since it only says that players who play nice are town and players who are jerks are clearly scum, and by the way, Kick plays nice and thus must be town. I fear it comes from a mischievous scum looking to get a mislynch on a semi-suspicious player than from a concerned town and so I'm going to go ahead and ##Vote Kickstart This is his "case" on Kickstart. In this he attacks Kick for his suspicion of me, and almost nothing else. He calls Kick's play wishy-washy and decides that I was pro-town for what I did, a dubious distinction at the time for a town player to make. Now, as I've stated before, I think it was obviously in scum's best interest to attempt to side with me Day 1 because I am perceived as an easy target for manipulation based on my overall play in the last NMM. But, as others have expressed, there is a little doubt as to how far scum would take their double-team Day 1 lest they be caught at the same time. This argument, however, does not apply to Arn because of his following actions... On December 05 2012 15:07 Arnarnion wrote: I'm becoming less and less sure about who is scum at this point, I am beginning to think that it may be possible that two sides of town have started going at it while scum can easily sit it out with having to contribute much. This heated debate is not producing much more meaningful information from either side and I think the conversation needs to calm down and be reconsidered, since there seems to be a lot of rash and reactionary voting going on, which I don't believe is productive to town. The thread is turning into a brawl, which will make it easier for scum to sheep a vote without much more reason than jidolboy gave. Given that, I myself am going to ##Unvote for the meantime until the conversation becomes a little more productive and informative. On December 06 2012 04:55 Arnarnion wrote: As you can see as of right now I'm not voting for anyone. While I am less convinced than I was that Kick is scum, I'm also not ready to say that that makes Oats scum. The fight that broke out between them seems more of a town on town altercation to me and it seems like a good cover for scum to push agenda as town tears itself apart. I haven't liked the actions jidolboy and Sylencia sitting the game out until close to the vote then quickly squeaking their ill explained votes in. And based off of going through their respective filters, I find Sylencia's approach more scum and jidolboy's more newbie town. I say this because based off of their votes Sylencia goes through a list of sheeping other peoples points and then finally votes Oats after saying nothing original, reads scummy to me. jidolboy literally just votes with no explanation after being being absent for long while, and then sheeps when pressed about, which seems more like a frightened noob who didn't realize how suspicious he was being. So I'm going to ##Vote: Sylencia Now suddenly both Kick AND Oats are town, and Sylencia the Lurker is scummy. This distances scum Arn from scum Oats in that Arn did not stay on the Kick bandwagon, and is therefor less in the way of the collateral damage from Oats flipping scum. If you think Rad is too close, Arn is certainly the PERFECT distance away from Oats while still managing to push the scum agenda day 1, get a mislynch. Only now instead of going after Kick he's pushing a Lurker Lynch on Sylencia without ever having mentioned it before. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! On December 06 2012 08:20 Arnarnion wrote: How's is voting for my top scum read not giving a fuck about who is lynched? I give a fuck, I just I'm not sure you have the right guy and I'm pretty sure that Sylencia has exhibited some scummy behavior. That being said, since you guys seem set on lynching Oats above anyone else and I don't like the idea of a no lynch, I will ##Unvote and ##Vote: Oatsmaster, since I don't have a strong enough town read on him to adamantly say don't lynch him. I just hope this is worth it. I still think there should be more attention on the sheeping lurkers, though. Why would town do this? If you think Sylencia is scum why not make a case on him like you did Kick? Why vote for Oats, a player you had said just ONE POST AGO looked town to you? It makes no sense, unless you were trying to get heat off your back for the consecutive days by making a "pro-town" play. Arn even makes the defense that he did it for information, which is somewhat understandable from a town perspective. On December 07 2012 02:01 Arnarnion wrote: I voted for Oats because a no lynch seemed more detrimental to town than either a scum lynch or a mislynch. So I voted him hoping that if he flipped scum, he flipped scum and yay, one down and one to go, or if he flipped town, clearer reads could be made on people who voted for him or against him. A no lynch would do nothing good for town besides keeping a possible scummer or a possible town alive and scum could then pull off an easy NK. When I voted, I voted for coin flip reasons, which aren't very good reasons but I felt it would be better for town than to let nothing happen. But if he was really pushing a pro-town information play from the beginning, why would he suddenly vote against that day 2? On December 09 2012 11:41 Arnarnion wrote: I'll tell you why i didn't vote to consolidate. If I voted Rad and he turned out not to be scum, what would happen next? Someone would be NK'd and then I would be placed under suspicion like the last time I voted to consolidate, you guys would lynch me next and boom, 4 dead town in a row for one scum. If you guys were wrong it would be the end of town and I wasn't willing to risk that, especially since the only people on the vote where the sheepiest player we have, a guy I don't trust, and someone who seems to think that he has solved game because he led a lynch on scum day one. I wasn't buying it. He wants to avoid the suspicion he thinks we had of him after his play Day 1. Why would you vote for Oats day 1 and not Rad day 2 if you thought that both had a chance not to flip scum? His reasoning for voting Oats day 1 is in DIRECT CONTRADICTION with his reasons for not voting for Rad day 2. The play is EVEN SAFER day 2 because there is already one scum dead, so a mislynch means less D2 than it did D1, but yet he's more paranoid about mislynching a town, and why? Let's look at the post again. On December 09 2012 11:41 Arnarnion wrote: I'll tell you why i didn't vote to consolidate. If I voted Rad and he turned out not to be scum, what would happen next? Someone would be NK'd and then I would be placed under suspicion like the last time I voted to consolidate, you guys would lynch me next and boom, 4 dead town in a row for one scum. Because he doesn't want to be placed under suspicion. Why would a town player think that the same play would somehow get him lynched D3 when it didn't get him lynched D2? He wouldn't. A scum player, would, however, because they would have known that Oats was scum D1 and knew that town wouldn't attack the people on his wagon, but the D2 mislynch of town Rad would DEFINITELY garner some suspicion for the people on his wagon. I voted for Rad despite these potential consequences but yet Arn didn't? Furthermore, why is he so worried about Rad being town when the guy hasn't really been that pro-town? He never even offers up a defense of Rad's play that makes him think he's town, but yet he's so worried about it that he decides not to consolidate and risk a mislynch? On December 09 2012 13:28 Arnarnion wrote: Kick, just because I've been lurking doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. And 3 out of 7 people is not the majority of town. And I didn't tell you guys not to vote rad because A) I didn't think I(Captain Lurker) could change the minds of the guy who got the first lynch and his two nodding followers and B) I was agonizing up to the last minute on whether or not I would consolidate because I keep thinking there is the possibilty that my reads are wrong, but this time I felt like if I went and voted without thinking that there would be a 50/50 chance that that action could mean a win for scum or town. And I didn't want to make that decision. I threw my vote down on Yam because of the two people that sheeped you for that vote on Rad, his behavior has been the most inconsistent throughout the game and he hasn't had his own idea since he first went after Axle, jidol has a least been up front about it. You are being followed around by two people without any opinions themselves and feeling like you're hot shit because of it. Wake up Why do you trust Yam now, when you clearly didn't before? I really want to know, because I don't under stand why everyone is talking about him like he's confirmed town. The only other reason he offers up for not consolidating is because Jidol and I are "sheeping Kick" which is somehow bad. He never considers the arguments against Rad, he only thinks about the consequences of the lynch and who he can vilify for wanting to lynch him. He picks me because I am under suspicion from other players, even though he once called my play town favored. I don't see the town thinking in this play. I see a lot of scum thinking. His play has been aligned with what I perceive as the scum agenda for both days. D1, push an easy mislynch. Day 2, deny town the information from a lynch and kill off the towniest player in the game at night. D3? Well I suppose he'll have to make a REAL GOOD case against me now. | ||
|
yamato77
11589 Posts
| ||
|
Rad
United States935 Posts
Why the sudden change of heart? It's troubling that you would view me as town, suddenly sheep vote me, then when that failed you spread suspicion across 3 other people (who aren't me), make a case on arn and throughout the case you repeatedly mention me as if to set me up for the final mislynch (even though you clearly dropped suspicion on me with this post): On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote: So my FoS is on Syl, Arn, and Axle. There exists the distinct possibility that Axle is scum, though proving so is difficult. Syl voted for jidol for basically no reason except that he was lurking. In hindsight, I think the vote looks incredibly stupid because I have a pretty decent town read on jidol at the moment, and despite his low post count haven't had a scum read on him all game. On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote: Believe me, you have the wrong idea if you think my play D2 is scummy at all. I sheep the towniest player in the game in a majority lynch on a player who was strongly associated with the scum we lynched day 1 and somehow that is scum play? There are some holes in that logic. Right, so what exactly is it about your d2 play that was so townie? Can scum not sheep the towniest player? Can scum not jump on someone's wagon for a bullshit association case? These seem like things scum would WANT to do if they thought they could get away with it. What exactly did you do on d2 that was so amazingly townie? My mislynch would have pushed suspicion onto kick the most with no one to blame after he was mislynched, and a jidolboy mislynch afterwards would have been easy following that if he wasn't named VT. On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote: Regardless, if that is your only reason for not voting him, you should reconsider why it is that he is being cast into the spotlight in the first place, which is his continually questionable play up to this point. After the failed wagon on Kick, he has done basically nothing the whole game. More of the same, FoS 3 other people, but keep that suspicion on me alive. On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote: Now if you HONESTLY doubt Rad's guilt Suggesting you don't doubt my guilt, which seems odd considering you didn't FoS me and have just spent all your time making a case on arn. On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote: Right now I lay blame at both your feet for the lack of any new information D2 because neither of you seem very involved in this game. I guarantee you will get lynched if you don't change that. So it's syl's and arn's fault, but definitely not axle's fault even though you FoS'd him just before this statement. What new information could you have even gotten from my mislynch? Oh wait, I know. Kick flipped town, jidolboy is now confirmed town, so that leaves only... YOU. ##Vote: yamato77 | ||
| ||
