Egypt post Mubarak - Page 6

On December 10 2012 07:28 Rassy wrote:
Been thinking about this a bit more.
It seems reasonable to be against the referendum based on previous posts but i still wonder if this is the whole story.
Morsi has been in power as an intermediate as far as i know (pls correct me if am wrong) whos task is to guide egypt through this transition towards an economy.
They have drafted a concept constitution about wich people can vote.
It seems no more then logical that if the concept is not accepted by the people, that the status quo should stay.
Morsi and his clan will have to draw up another constitution and see if that one gets accepted.
Beeing against the referendum purely based on the fact that if it does not pass, morsi will stay in power i find a weak argument.

I think he's saying that the world has a problem wherein democracy is introduced to countries where it hasn't been before and is being abused by the majority to create an undemocratic society that has a veneer of democracy

And here is what i think is the true reason of beeing against this referendum.
There actually is a majority in egypt for a constitution like the one they want the vote on.
This constition is not to our liking and therefor we are against it, even though it seems to be a democratic process.
Democracy is fine for us, as long as the majority votes for what we do like.
If the majority does not vote for "us" then they are not ready for democracy, and need to be guided into making the right choise, the choise we all would like to see.

Somehow this does not feel right.
I do realise there is a legit concern about the workings of a democracy when a democracy is just beeing build up in a place it never been before, but this concern should not be used as an argument to basicly get rid of democracy all together.

On December 10 2012 08:44 HellRoxYa wrote:


On a related note, anti corruption studies conducted at my university (University of Gothenburg / Quality of Government Institute) has shown that, as far as corruption goes, democracy does practically nothing. What you need is institution building, proper infrastructure, proper law, and so on. Basically all those things we in the west gradually built along side industrialization, before becoming democratic (The US being a rare exception). Now as I said this research mainly focuses on corruption but the findings are pretty much that democracy is a very nice way to top off an otherwise good society, but it doesn't, by itself, make the good society happen.

(Reuters) - European Council President Herman Van Rompuy, visiting Cairo, said on Sunday the European Union and other financial institutions had offered Egypt over 5 billion euros to support Egypt's democratic transition.

"The European Union and associated financial institutions have offered an amount of more than 5 billion euros, or more than $6.5 bln, in grants, concessional loans and loans for a period of 2012 and 2013 to support Egypt's democratic transition," Rompuy told reporters.

There were four times as many 'insulting the president' lawsuits during President Mohamed Morsi's first 200 days in office than during the entire 30-year reign of former president Hosni Mubarak.
This is the claim made by Gamal Eid, human rights lawyer and executive director of the Arab Network for Human Rights Information (ANHRI).

Moreover, the number of such lawsuits during the Morsi era is more than during the entire period dating back to 1909 when the law was introduced (originally for 'insulting the king'), Eid said via Twitter.

Members and sympathisers of the Muslim Brotherhood, the group from which President Morsi hails, have allegedly used the accusation to intimidate opposition figures in the media.

In early January 2013, Islamist lawyers filed a lawsuit against political satirist Bassem Youssef for 'undermining the standing of the president' after he poked fun at President Morsi's speeches and put his image on a pillow. The charges were dropped before the case reached court.

In December 2012, the president's office accused psychiatrist Manal Omar and TV host Mahmoud Saad of insulting the president on the latter's programme Akhir Al-Nahar. They discussed the psychological effects of suppression and jail on those in power, with reference to President Morsi who spent seven months in jail during the Mubarak era and was detained for three days during revolution.

It came on the fourth day of violence that has swept the country and left more than 50 dead.

Thousands of people have protested against the rule of President Mohammed Morsi and a court verdict to execute 21 people that were involved in a riot last year that left 74 football fans dead.

In a bid to restore calm, Mr Morsi has declared a month-long state of emergency in the three cities of Ismailiya , Suez and Port Said - which has seen the worst of the violence.

But defying the 9am to 6pm curfew, thousands of protesters demonstrated in the affected cities last night.
The army has been deployed in two of the cities and cabinet approved a measure to let soldiers arrest civilians.

A cabinet source told Reuters any trials would be before civilian courts, but the step is likely to anger protesters who accuse Mursi of using high-handed security tactics of the kind they fought against to oust President Hosni Mubarak.

Heba Morayef of Human Rights Watch in Cairo said the police would once again have the right to arrest people 'purely because they look suspicious', in a throw back to the regime of former president Hosni Mubarak.

'It is a classic knee-jerk reaction to think the emergency law will help bring security,' she said. 'It gives so much discretion to the Ministry of Interior that it ends up causing more abuse, which in turn causes more anger.'

Demonstrations are continuing for a fifth consecutive day today as police fire volleys of teargas at dozens of youths throwing stones in Cairo.

The protests on Sunday come on the anniversary of Morsi's poll victory, which made him the nation's first democratically elected leader after the 2011 revolution against the regime of Hosni Mubarak.

Protesters packed Tahrir Square in Cairo - the focal point of the revolution - blaming Morsi for a stagnant economy, worsening security and an ongoing lack of basic services Many waved red cards and chanted "irhal" - "leave".

For scale, satellite map showing anti-Morsi protests (green) and pro-Morsi protests (red).

Protesters in Egypt aiming laser lights at military helicopter.

On July 01 2013 13:26 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
That would make it the biggest protest/unrest in history.

CAIRO — Egypt’s armed forces threatened on Monday to intervene in the country’s political crisis, warning President Mohamed Morsi and other politicians that they had 48 hours to respond to an outpouring of popular protests that have included demands for his resignation.

In a statement read on state television, General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, the head of the Egyptian military, said the mass demonstrations that intensified over the weekend, including the storming of the Muslim Brotherhood headquarters in Cairo early Monday, reflected an “unprecedented” expression of popular anger at Mr. Morsi and his Islamist backers in the brotherhood during his first year in power.

@ianjameslee Ian Lee 44m
Egyptian military helicopters flying around Cairo with Egyptian and military flags. #Egypt pic.twitter.com/8UyjOBANCm