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On September 19 2012 08:16 Sharrant wrote:
When did I call for a blue role claim? Why are you just making shit up?
I wanted you to roleclaim, because of the little stint you and Thrawn had there. That struck me as scummy, so rather than wanting to lynch you, I wanted to get you to claim, and then depending on whether your claim was refuted or not, just drop it and possibly find someone that had revealed themselves as scummy while you were on the front of everyone's minds.
Ok you say you weren't asking for a blue roleclaim. Then you say you wanted him to claim to see if his claim could be refuted or not. If you're not expecting him to claim blue then how could his claim possibly be refuted (by a counter claim) if he doesn't claim blue?
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hey killing where's that post you promised us?
First you come in with the wildy off topic FOS post, then you make a vote for debears because you "liked sdm's post" which was pretty much the extent of your 2 sentence justification for your vote, then your next post is more about the FOS stuff and you give excuses for why you aren't posting and promise us a post which never came. ##FOS Killing
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Oh wow a serial killer read, this thread just got interesting. I have to wonder does a serial killer investigation come back as scum or as serial killer... Because if it comes back as serial killer you would almost have to go for investigation immunity.(making what you say more likely to be true) Also interesting that you say there is a serial killer. “he is, in fact, the serial killer.” You seem very sure there is one, know something we don’t  (I guess we will probably know after the first night) However your posting style seems town to me. Just the fact you came up with a long thought out post that appears to make sense at the moment.
Continuting to read the thread will comment as I go them probably comment more at the end. I will spoiler my thread rambling so it is easier to read.
+ Show Spoiler +
Wait what? Killing is acting odd. Will get to this later I guess. He seems really in to the votes aren’t permerment and throws them around a lot without much reason... Sonic is going at Debears... and killing jumps on immediately? Heat is on Killing and debears.
On September 19 2012 03:27 drazak wrote:Hey bro, I asked him some questions, lets let him answer before we form any opinions. IMO it seems that whenever someone defends osmeone before they answer questions relating to an FOS, it gives them some security and takes the pressure off considerably. Without pressure there's no point in doing an FOS. TBH I think it's kind of funky that you're defending people kush, lets be real here, this is about finding mafia, not making friends 
Aww but friends are good! But it is true you should only really search for friends late game when you can have at least one solid town read. On a side note drazak seems to be frustrated however he is frustrated with kush which I can understand. Thrawn points out there might not be an Sk good thing to note.
+ Show Spoiler +
Kush thinks of a scum team day one... oh good he says it is speculation. Sharrant drops the kush case when it seems to not go in his favour. Then votes debears, who is still not conviced debears is mafia. Thrawn calls him out on it, thrawn highly defensive but I know I get defensive of people who defend me as well.
(Ok I will leave the read though ramble for a minute)
Sharrant looks strange, he is randomly voting for someone who doesn’t seem suspicious to him.. just saying
*commence rambling again*
+ Show Spoiler +
Woah! Sharrent goes full out and then gets shut down... Yeah watch sharrent. Now he wants a role claim... I knew this thread would get interesting. Lolz supersoft...
Ok I have reached the end of the thread.
I am going to stay mostly away from the thrawn kush sonic debacle for the moment it’s not as clear as it should be.
FOS Killing
And
FOS Debears
FOS Sharrent
Ok killing is acting very strange. I do see his point (alongside Sharrent) about using a vote as a tool not a weapon however he isn’t providing much if any evidence to back up his votes. He is almost talking about reasons for what he does (with Fos and voting) before he does it. Maybe trying to spread confusion in a way that looks town. Last game as town he seemed to be much for active in a useful way at the start of the game however this could be down to time zones and such.
Debears, his defence of thrawn is either a scum hold trying to latch himself to a town or a town who is too inexperienced to want to go out with a solid scum read first. Both are plausible I will need more time to work out which is which. However thrawn is very defensive of him so if we do get a flip either by Nk or lynch it might mean something.
Sharrent is under suspicion for what I listed in my talk though of the thread however reasons such as Sk suspicions before night 1 voting for people while saying they are not suspicions (scum motivation for this if they flip town) The only question is Would a mafia bring this much attention to themselves? He is playing really aggressively. Also interesting how he says how he would act as a SK and the role claim thing could really only help mafia.
However taking a tip from your book... I would be happy to vote sharrent for the moment at least. I will reread the thread when I get back and probably be able to post a bit. In any case I should be able to manage one ok sized post at night. (as well as minor posts in the day as I get time)
##Vote: Sharrent
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Because it's an open set up, reds actually can claim blues here with an element of risk but also some safety. If he claims blue then it can possibly be refuted, but no one really should claim blue, it doesn't make a lot of sense to at this point. But there's always the possibility. It's like your earlier bait for someone to go after your weak argument and hopefully slip up, there's not a huge chance of a slip that big, but you're gathering information.
Hell, we could even get lucky enough that two reds would claim to be the masons, and be lucky enough to have masons to refute that.
I'm not sure why a role claim on one person that was noted by a few people as scummy, is so scummy. A mass role claim on day one would be instalynch scummy, but this is my alternative to trying for a lynch on him day 1. Just to put some pressure and see what comes of it.
Anwyays, I too am wondering where Killing's post is. I came into this little debate because of him and debears, but now Killing has mysteriously vanished. It's possible that I came in a little too hot on debears, when I should've been going after Killing.
I'm waiting for Kush and Killing's posts now. Hopefully we can get some more people talking again, this really ended up coming down to 4 people. Just by the numbers it's actually somewhat likely that no mafia are involved in our little dispute.
@Jacob
You misread that slightly. That was not "he is in fact the serial killer" it was "I feel he is, in fact, the serial killer". The difference is that it was not "He is the serial killer" it was "I feel he is". And pease, people, read carefully. This is the third or fourth time that someone has said I didn't find debears suspicious before I voted, when I clearly stated that I was suspicious of him he was just not my number 1 suspicion. You're still a player I would like to hear more from, Jacob, but at this point you're not a suspect to me.
I'm obviously not the happiest to be up here, but I think it's helping my reads on people. I'm still not sure about Thrawn taking debears under his wing, that still strikes me as scummy, but aside from a few misreadings, his posts have generally been quality and it's felt like he was going after me rather than trying to start a bandwagon on me. I even get the same feeling from debears, which is killing me.
I guess a possibility I hadn't thought of, is that the two of them could be the masons. That would actually make sense in my mind, and give reason as to why they protected each other off the bat. I don't want to take my vote off of debears just yet, but that may change come Kush's and Killing's posts.
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Oh I feel... yeah my bad I missed that part. Don't worry you will hear more from me as the game goes on just hard at the moment with so many assigments I have like two due tonight... hmm the role claim thing just seems so... scummy I still can't see how it helps town as much as you think it would...
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It's not so much how much it helps the town right now. I wanted to push debears, and that was a good start short of trying to actually lynch him. Lynching him stands a much higher chance of actually hurting the town, but offers greater reward if he were lynched and flipped red. Whereas claiming is a slow burn, if he's a townie, it doesn't really effect him all that much (yes, it could get him killed by the mafia, but after claiming green there's more reward to killing an unclaimed person). But if he is mafia it's a bit of a slow burner, he has to claim now, which cuts down on the opportunities that open up to them later.
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On September 19 2012 09:29 JacobStrangelove wrote:
Oh I feel... yeah my bad I missed that part. Don't worry you will hear more from me as the game goes on just hard at the moment with so many assigments I have like two due tonight... hmm the role claim thing just seems so... scummy I still can't see how it helps town as much as you think it would...
Yeah same thing with me. No matter how I llook at all the ways a role claim could work out it always ends up not making any sense to have been suggested by a town player
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imo don't even think about serial killer until he kills someone and we know he exists.
look for a substantial post from me at like 10 pm. I will break down debears latest post and expand on my argument about why I think he's scummy.
the second half of d1 is approaching and I think we should solidify our bandwagons instead of accusing people like thrawn who are just not gonna get lynched today.
also why are so many people already voting sharron? His play is really stupid with the roleclaim call, but stupid play doesn't make you mafia. you think first time mafia would really be so confidently retarded like that?
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Let me clarify on the blue roleclaim
Sharrant Canada. September 19 2012 07:45. Posts 11
@Kush
Don't worry, I don't get pissy, it doesn't help anyone in this game. Obviously no one is going to role claim as mafia, so he'll claim something from town (either blue or green). You say getting him to roleclaim as a blue is scummy, why do you assume he's a blue? Hell, if he's a blue, he should lie and claim VT. I think he's a mafia, thus I want him to claim, because if he is mafia HE HAS TO CLAIM A TOWN ROLE. Yes, he may be a townie that's entirely true. But more likely in my mind at this point is that he's a mafia. Making his claim early means that he'll be somewhat stuck on roles, can't claim blue or he'll most likely get outted as mafia, and claiming town will eventually show a discrepency.
You say LIE if i am a blue role and claim vt. You're telling someone else how to play a blue role. Both of those, from what I have seen in previous games, are usually more hurtful than helpful and can be scummy (Xatalos calling for a vig kill on kville)
Roleclaiming would just add to the confusion in the semi-open setup. You can't confirm roles due to the possibility of multiples of the same one.
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On September 19 2012 09:40 kushm4sta wrote:
imo don't even think about serial killer until he kills someone and we know he exists.
look for a substantial post from me at like 10 pm. I will break down debears latest post and expand on my argument about why I think he's scummy.
the second half of d1 is approaching and I think we should solidify our bandwagons instead of accusing people like thrawn who are just not gonna get lynched today.
also why are so many people already voting sharron? His play is really stupid with the roleclaim call, but stupid play doesn't make you mafia. you think first time mafia would really be so confidently retarded like that?
Because like you said we're halfway into d1 and it's time to start voting. Would he make a big mistake as first time mafia? Maybe? Who knows? The point is it happened. You also gotta look at his vote for debears. Ignore what your read on debears is and just look at that post. It's so washy washy.... Combine that with the role claim nonsense and that's why I'm voting for him.
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Ok going to sleep now. I'll be back later when I wake up but then I'll be gone fishing for a while. I should be back at least 4 or so hours within deadline though.
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On September 19 2012 09:46 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 09:40 kushm4sta wrote:
imo don't even think about serial killer until he kills someone and we know he exists.
look for a substantial post from me at like 10 pm. I will break down debears latest post and expand on my argument about why I think he's scummy.
the second half of d1 is approaching and I think we should solidify our bandwagons instead of accusing people like thrawn who are just not gonna get lynched today.
also why are so many people already voting sharron? His play is really stupid with the roleclaim call, but stupid play doesn't make you mafia. you think first time mafia would really be so confidently retarded like that? Because like you said we're halfway into d1 and it's time to start voting. Would he make a big mistake as first time mafia? Maybe? Who knows? The point is it happened. You also gotta look at his vote for debears. Ignore what your read on debears is and just look at that post. It's so washy washy.... Combine that with the role claim nonsense and that's why I'm voting for him.
So wait I misunderstood. This is just his first game on TL not his first game. But he could be talking about IRL mafia.
@Sharront Is this your first game of forum mafia?
Thrawn I think you are referring to when sharrant voted for debears right after saying he's not the most suspicious person.
People are misunderstanding how some people use ##vote. They use it like ##fos basically and just change their vote a bunch of times throughout the day.
I do not think there is anything inherently scummy in that.
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On September 19 2012 05:07 Sharrant wrote:
At the same time, debears isn't really the most suspicious person to me, his defense of Thrawn could be scummy, or it might not be. It was weird, but not a strong tell either way in my opinion. However, there is getting to be a large web of people involved with debears either way.
##unvote Kushm4sta
##vote debears
I do however think that it will be a distraction until it is resolved. THere's a good chance he flips scum, and that would reflect poorly on Thrawn, who up until this point I've been relatively sure he was town. I'm not convinced he's mafia, but I'm suspicious enough of him I'd like to get to the point where we can force a claim.
debears not most supicsious person
his defense of thrawn could be scummy or not but not a strong tell either way
vote for debears
it's a destraction that needs to be resolved
there's a good chance he flips scum
not convinced debears is mafia
wants to force debears to claim
How is this a rational justification of a vote, even it's just a pressure vote? And this line "I'm not convinced he's mafia, but I'm suspicious enough of him I'd like to get to the point where we can force a claim." is the scummiest sounding thing I've read in the thread so far.
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So I'm kind of demoralized atm about my debears case since no one is even talking about debears anymore but me. Sharrant has effectively consumed everyone's attention.. so I guess bad job sharrant whether you are town or scum.
Case against debears recent post.
On September 19 2012 07:21 debears wrote:+ Show Spoiler +First thing, SDM Sonic Death Monkey Sweden. September 19 2012 05:13. Posts 355
Reading thrawn's explanations and looking back at Debears filter it's possible he understood thrawn's plan That was what I was going for. Obviously, I poorly worded that part cuz it didn't get through. Also, at the time I made the thrawn defense post, I did not want to repeat what every1 else was saying. I saw that you were criticizing thrawn for doing something similar and it looked odd to me. Thus, I decided to question you. Once you kept saying you didn't see the logic, I tried to explain it. @KushWhy are you trying so hard to associate drazak, thrawn, and me. Understandly, my earlier posts would link me and thrawn. However, drazak does not come anywhere into play. Look at my filter there is one post about drazak. + Show Spoiler + debears United States. September 18 2012 22:42. Posts 8 PM Profile Quote Edit #
filter
To me, thrawn is giving a town read at this point.
+ Show Spoiler +
A couple of you (SDM for instance) are concentrating at how stupid an idea lynching the last person is. Let's look at motivations for this:
1) Thrawn as town - prevent the lurker discussion from going overboard. Present an idea that should provoke an "you're an idiot" response from town members (with a long shot of some mafia jumping on him about the idea).
2) Thrawn as mafia - Put up an idea that a thinking town would take seriously, make himself look suspcicious. Possibly lynch the most inactive player if it works.
The idea has far superior town motives.
remember that Thrawn didn't linger on the idea. He dropped it after the responses were pretty clear on it. SDM did
+ Show Spoiler +
I think Thrawn has sufficiently answered the question.
I also believe that thrawn's defense of kush earlier was not indicative of scum.
+ Show Spoiler +
The argument that Remedy was more of a shot in the dark, seeing as all of us hate lurkers. Thrawn dismissed a possibly dumb argument before a giant flame war started (kush did give warning earlier).
I also support thrawn's logic with drazak:
+ Show Spoiler +
Thrawn is currently not timid about calling people out within reason.
To add to the argument, drazak's post also sounds indecisive. might, maybe, probably, think. While that alone is not anywhere near enough to condemn someone, it does raise suspicion on drazak.
I find it odd how both are you are playing right now. Kush is lieing (and btw my main critic was SDM and not KillingTime). And this: + Show Spoiler + Sharrant Canada. September 19 2012 05:58. Posts 8 PM Profile Quote #
filter
On September 19 2012 05:26 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
Well that bolded part is just a straight up lie. I don't see how drazak fits into your theory... I was the first one to call drazak out on his unreasonably defensive post and I've never defended him. So once again, is the only reason you think I'm scum because of your debears association case?
Show nested quote +
Ok Sharrant that is a ridiculous vote. You start out saying "debears isn't really the most suspicious person to me" and say his defense of me "was weird, but not a strong tell either way in my opinion."
Then you vote for him and say "there's a good chance he flips scum" and you're "not convinced he's mafia" after saying his defense of me was a null read. So, what exactly is your read on him and if you don't have a read then why are you voting for him? All I see is a bunch of "he may be scum" and "he is a null read."
That's a ridiculous vote? You pick choice words out to discredit what I said, and try to make it personal. I'm fairly convinced the two of you are mafia after that. You know who I think is most suspicious, that hasn't been a secret. This has been mentioned in every post that Kush is my number one target, but that's not going anywhere. I think you should re-read my post. Several times even. Yes, his defense of you wasn't particularly strong either way in and of itself, that's what I said. That's one moment of his play, and you jumped all over that. So Kush is number one on your list. Makes sense that you would vote for him yet: + Show Spoiler +At the same time, debears isn't really the most suspicious person to me, his defense of Thrawn could be scummy, or it might not be. It was weird, but not a strong tell either way in my opinion. However, there is getting to be a large web of people involved with debears either way.
##unvote Kushm4sta
##vote debears So I'm not the most suspicious, yet I"m the one you vote for. And, not only that, you are going after me. Funny how you agree with kush, the person you most suspect for mafia, on that. And another thing that raised my eyebrows was how quickly you gave up on attacking kush although you still think he is sk: + Show Spoiler + Sharrant Canada. September 19 2012 03:14. Posts 8 PM Profile Quote #
filter
On September 19 2012 02:09 kushm4sta wrote:
Defense of Sharrant's case against me
Good...scumhunting...dude..
there I didn't flame.
1 You call me insincere because at first I say sorry cubu for bandwagoning him last game, then I call him out for lurking?
I am not going to make a case against him for lurking, but I think a COUPLE words saying so and so are lurking we still need a post is fine.
And yeah I will say cubu played really really bad last game. I wont apologize for saying that. I'm still sorry for lynching him.
I was not trying to start a flame war for with cubu, I was just trying to get him to post. I think encouraging lurkers to post by calling them out or asking them questions is productive. Making cases against lurkers is not productive.
It was just a couple of words, but it is all in the wording. It was the whole underlined, bolded, italicized call out of him. I agree that lurkers need a kick in the pants to start posting more. I'd like to see more posts from Cubu, Stutters, and Killing Time specifically. You've taken a few steps on the road to seeming town to me, but it's a long journey for you, I'm still sticking with my first call.
2
Show nested quote +
I "keep on about NKs" only because people are calling me out for that statement and I want to defend myself. I will stop talking about NK if you stop.
But since you brought it up again let me talk more about my stance on nks:
+ Show Spoiler +
And if you're afraid to make yourself a target, then you don't put up as much as you can. NKs provide can provide just as much information as lynches can. On the first read through of your post, I was more convinced of your townieness. But your "I only talk about NKs because you guys talk about! But I'm going to talk about it again, and then say how it was a bad idea to talk about it in the first place." that's put me in an odd spot. It sends real mixed signals to me.
3
Show nested quote +
I never reversed my stance on anything. 1 post a day is not lurking if its a long post. Lynch lurkers, yes, but 1 post a day does not make you a lurker.
@sharron Is there anything else you want me to address or is that it? Also please give more effort to organize your posts better. Singling out the different arguments made against me was quite hard.
I'll take this one as a misinterpretation of your wording earlier. You have the benefit of the doubt there, I retract that point from before.
I think my post was more than adequately formatted, every point I called you on was bolded, every town read you gave was underlined, each point was addressed immediately afterwards, and was followed by a concise conclusion. If you have a suggestion on how to better format my posts, do tell.
You've gained some leniency, in that I know have more of a doubt that you might just be a townie who just sort of blurts out whatever they're thinking, but my vote stays on you for now until you post your own scum reads. But I appreciate that you are remaining civil, I think it helps the town out more.
KillingTime, you're starting to come up on my radar more and more. You seem to be riding coat tails, and posting a recap, rather than analysis of events, and then you come out swinging at debears based off of very, very little.
People I would like to hear more from: debears, KillingTime, Rethos, Jacob
You're all up there because I would like to get a better read on you, or I'd like to know more about your opinions.
People I need to hear more from: Atreides, Cubu, Drazak, Remedy, Stutters
And you're all up here because you're either suspicious, or lurking.
My current suspicions are Kush (SK, possibly blue or self important green), KillingTime/debears (One of these two is mafia I think, more likely KT), Stutters (Maf, low content, low posts)
We need to operate under the impression that among ourselves is not just the mafia, but a serial killer. It changes reads on people by an incredible amount. There's too many strategies open to an idependant killer if we don't also try to address them in our scum hunting. You basically stated that you are leaving kush alone. Yet you hide it in a mass of text about formatting. The rest of the post is you telling people who need to post. I liked the kush SK notion, but your current activity isn't making much sense.
There are several points in this post where debears directly copies thrawn's arguments without backing them up.
@Kush
Why are you trying so hard to associate drazak, thrawn, and me. Understandly, my earlier posts would link me and thrawn. However, drazak does not come anywhere into play. Look at my filter there is one post about drazak.
I'm not trying hard. I wrote one sentence bringing up that possibility, people asked me about it, and I answered them. If anything I was trying hard to get people to drop it.
This is beating a dead horse to a bloody pulp. Either he didn't read my posts, or he is doing it on purpose. Scum loves shit like this because they can get a lot of scumhunt mileage over something that contributes nothing.
(Kind of like getting on someone's ass for voting instead of fosing..)
Basically he is copying thrawns argument directly without expanding on it or even explaining it, and he doesn't acknowledge my answers to thrawn.
Kush is lieing.
I'm lying about? Again this is a repeat of something thrawn said. With nothing to back it up or anything. Just randomly throwing down some baseless suspicion.
The dick riding has continued, only instead of actually defending thrawn, he just copies all his claims and leaves out of the logic behind them.
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hey lurkers for all your sakes you had better come up with good contributions.... remember what we decided on at the start of the game?
kush I completely get what you are saying about debears 'dickriding' all game... but on its own is that a good justification for either a town or a scum read, especially in a newbie game? Besides the interactions between myself and debears do you find anything else scummy about him?
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On September 18 2012 12:08 kushm4sta wrote:
remedy getting a good scum read d1 is impossible. It's the easiest thing ever for scum to look like town day 1.
Unless we have no lurkers, we should lynch the biggest lurker or the scumiest semilurker but please not someone active.
I disagree, nothing is impossible
I don't like that *active* part in the second line. Being active shouldn't exclude someone from a possible lynch candidate, so I still have my suspicions, but i'll leave those for later.
##FOS kushm4sta (There, not in a spoiler!)
Now then...
This Sharrant vs. Debears arguement. I think both of them are posting very strangely.
I have a stronger scum feeling on Sharrant though as of this moment.
I don't see why you would switch your vote after having two decently long posts about Kush with a semi-good arguement, and than after one paragraph about debears, change your vote.
So I also ##FOS Sharrant
I am going to do some more reading and try to have a better argument done before going to sleep.
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Killingtime is missing. Seems pretty convenient that he goes missing as soon as the heat is off him. But for now there are more important matters to discuss since I doubt a banwagon on killing is happening.
I'm not going to vote yet. Day 1 scum reads are pretty bad. They are necessary, definitely, but it seems like they are just wrong more often than not. This leads me to the unpopular topic:
How do people feel about lynching a lurker. I would much rather lynch a lurker day 1 than let them sit there with his automatic null read forever. And who would we lynch instead? A possible active townie who is just playing bad?
Think about this, we have serious lurkers in CUBU and ATREIDES.
We have semi lurkers in REMEDY and STUTTERS.
How sure are you that Sharrant is mafia? Personally I'm not sure enough to vote for him over a lurker.
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Kush, this post stood out to me also.
On September 19 2012 07:21 debears wrote: Why are you trying so hard to associate drazak, thrawn, and me. Understandly, my earlier posts would link me and thrawn. However, drazak does not come anywhere into play. Look at my filter there is one post about drazak.
Debears posts do seem to link him and Thrawn, and if drazak is a part of this trio, than this post could just be another defense for his said teammate.
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kush I'm open to a lurker lynch as I said at the start of the game but I think sharrant is actually a pretty good lynch candidate. If town ends up being divided as hell then that's when we should start talking about our favorite lurkers, so to get the ball rolling on that I think everyone should start throwing out their top scumread votes. kush, and others, if you delay your vote as long as possible then you are basically going to force town into a lurker lynch. lurker lynch = back up plan and it should be avoided if we can actually agree on a strong scum read.
sooooo if you haven't voted yet now's the time
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look at my filter, other than saying "I don't think we don't have anything definite yet, lets look at his answers though" I speak nothing about debears or thrawn, no defense. Your scum trio falls apart with me. going to bed, will have more constructive things after sleep.
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EPT
