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In defense of Sharrant -
He's in a similar position to debears - bad decisions do not necessarily mean scum. Think about it - what could a mafia hope to gain by this? Getting a lynch is far too ambitious, and a role claim isn't worth getting so much attention to yourself.
Mafia wouldn't want to aggressively pursue targets, they want to passively follow the crowd. Sharrant rode hard on debears, and has shown that he's willing to use his vote freely. I think that trying to get a role claim is a bad idea (debears will claim vanilla town no matter what role he is, this tells us nothing) but I don't see what's scummy about that. He's actively scumhunting, and both of his ideas (kush being SK, pressuring on debears) are original.
Someone mentioned the possibility of debears+thrawn being masons, which is something I didn't think of. The bromance between the two is pretty apparent since the beginning. Both have said that they believe the other is town, and they've used FOS (against sonic) and vote (against Sharrant) in unison. Thoughts?
I don't see a strong case for both debears and Sharrant right now. I'd be more inclined to vote for KillingTime if anything.
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@thrawn it seems like everything debears has posted has been some form of interaction with you, so it's impossible to have anything outside of that. Also understand I don't think that argument hinges on you being mafia as well.
On September 19 2012 11:44 RemedySC wrote:
Being active shouldn't exclude someone from a possible lynch candidate, so I still have my suspicions, but i'll leave those for later.
Day 1, in a game with lurkers, I think being active should exclude someone from being lynched. Lynching an active poster day 1 usually results in lynching a townie, this is common mafia knowledge.
Our reads of active players will get better. Our reads on lurkers will remain the same.
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Also I don't see how drazak is connected at all with debears/thrawn. The only thing he's posted on the topic isn't even significant:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 19 2012 03:23 drazak wrote:
As far as looking at Debears goes, I think it's a dead end, I'd definitely like to see his response, but I don't think your reasoning was very good kush, you yourself have show how saying something would look from each perspecting, which is exactly what Debears was doing. IN addition, it's an examination of motives, which is important, everyone has a motive.
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##vote debears
I would be open to changing my vote to cubu.
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The mason possibility for thrawn and debears actually makes sense considering how they are acting. However I think it is a overreach. We know there are mafia but we do not know if there are masons. (i think)
Going to bed now.
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One more thing: debears and sharrant both exhibit bad play. However I think debear's bad play (buddying) is indicative of scum whereas sharrant's bad play is just null read badness.
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kush what do you think about killing? he's been pretty lurky and has displayed some scummy behavior.
On September 19 2012 08:29 thrawn2112 wrote:
hey killing where's that post you promised us?
First you come in with the wildy off topic FOS post, then you make a vote for debears because you "liked sdm's post" which was pretty much the extent of your 2 sentence justification for your vote, then your next post is more about the FOS stuff and you give excuses for why you aren't posting and promise us a post which never came. ##FOS Killing
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On September 19 2012 12:10 thrawn2112 wrote:kush what do you think about killing? he's been pretty lurky and has displayed some scummy behavior. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 08:29 thrawn2112 wrote:
hey killing where's that post you promised us?
First you come in with the wildy off topic FOS post, then you make a vote for debears because you "liked sdm's post" which was pretty much the extent of your 2 sentence justification for your vote, then your next post is more about the FOS stuff and you give excuses for why you aren't posting and promise us a post which never came. ##FOS Killing
I think he is very scummy and honestly the only reason I let up on him was because he accused debears who I thought was more scummy.
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@Atreides
That was me that mentioned the possibility of them both being masons.
@Kush I agree with you about lurkers at this time. I'm ready to bury the hatchet on both debears and thrawn in order to get rid of one of our hard lurkers.
The way I'm looking at it right now, is everyone has done things that are varying degrees of scummy. But we're all actively posting. I don't like the Thrawn/debears dynamic, it really strikes me as scum, but I'm starting to lean more towards the lurkers.
In particular, I think there's one candidate that would clear up most of this. Most of the reason for me voting for debears in the first place was because of KillingTime. He's promise some posts, but hasn't delivered. Unless he makes a large contribution tomorrow, I expect that is where my vote will end up. I ended up going with debears when I thought one of them was scum, but debears has at least been somewhat active.
So it goes on a few ifs, but the lurker that I'm most comfortable going after in this situation is KillingTime. If we lynch him, and if he flips mafia, that's the end of any case of mine against debears and Thrawn.
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Hmm masons... that might make sense but it's a rather big jump. (although I can't exactly argue with making big jumps) If we do go for the inactive people that would be killing time and cubu. Only problem with that is we literally don't have enough information to get a lynch.
However I would disagree with this
On September 19 2012 12:00 kushm4sta wrote:
##vote debears
I would be open to changing my vote to cubu.
Personaly I would lynch killing over cubu as while cubu is lurking more he hasn’t said anything suspicious. (Mainly because he has said nothing at all) Whereas killing said he was writing a post, then went in lurk mode. And voted debears based purely on Sonics post without saying what he agrees with or disagrees with.
That said where on earth is stutters? His only post is in regards to kush not wanting to be night killed. Something everyone jumped on. I have to admit that does make him look suspicious considering he said he would be super active pregame.
On September 15 2012 13:58 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 13:36 JacobStrangelove wrote:
/in Urg fine.... i'm in... but I will have a serious drop in the amount I will be posting at random times.... Don't worry. I'll have more time this game so we can switch places from xxvi and I'll be super active and you can lurk then confirm yourself with a vig shot :p. Just don't be like me and shoot the medic. XD
Considering an active lynch is risky (unless someone comes up with a rock solid argument) I want to put the pressure on Stutters in particularly and killing. If both of these suddenly become active in a good way then I will probably either stay on sharrant (although this is getting a little less likely) or cubu (although I really don’t want to considering last game)
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Damn, I'm way too tired to concentrate.
I will be back early in the morning.
Good night.
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A lot of good info to go through. I'm going through filters now to try and get some concrete reads but at a glance my biggest reads with activity would be Kush and Sharrant. Killing needs to show up to have something on him but if he doesn't I wouldn't be opposed to a policy lynch.
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Oh cool stutters is here *waits* Funny how you show up right after I make a statement about you but it could be coincidence.
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I just woke up - yeah I meant to post more last night but couldn't for irl reasons. Sorry I know that looked bad.
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On September 19 2012 13:58 KillingTime wrote:
I just woke up - yeah I meant to post more last night but couldn't for irl reasons. Sorry I know that looked bad.
Yeah it looks really bad, that said assuming you are mafia you would probably do everything you could to get a post out to avoid this... (as in last night although you would probably also do a post like this anyway)
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Sharrant Canada. September 19 2012 12:15. Posts 15 PM Profile Quote #
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@Atreides
That was me that mentioned the possibility of them both being masons.
@Kush I agree with you about lurkers at this time. I'm ready to bury the hatchet on both debears and thrawn in order to get rid of one of our hard lurkers.
I will be able to post an argument on you and Kush tomorrow, most likely in the morning.
In the lurkers, there is one that still has my attention, Rethos.
On September 19 2012 06:33 rethos wrote:
@thrawn2112 since the whole debears affair, your conflict with SDM seemed to have been left in the air. What is your current read about SDM? Do you have any other reads that the town might want to know about?
This was his last post. Although he is posting, his posts are not beneficial. Most of the latest ones contain questions. He hasn't directed accusations at anyone.
Why, if he is town, is he trying to convince people he is right? What does that do? How does that help? Is it just bad town play?
This is just a sample of what he does. Three questions in a row that he did not post an answer for himself.
Most of his other posts follow a similar format. He just directs the question at someone. I understand the difference in time zones affecting the amount of posts. However, the quality is poor. He isn't taking a stand on anything.
Looks like he is trying to look active without provoking anyone.
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oh and heads up. Besides classes through 5, I have practice at 6 PM CST.  I won't be here for the 2 hours up to and for a while after the lynch , unless my coach changes his mind. I will post what I can in the morning and lunch.
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Ok - well I think the best thing for me to do Is go through the questions drazak asked me last night:
Players I want to see more from - There are lots of players in this category:
1. RemedySC - Not much interesting in his posts, nothing scummy but nothing strong
2. Drazak - Again, he made fair points about me and I am answering his questions - he has said he will also try to post more today. If there is one thing that I learnt from XXVI it is that associational cases are bad though. So leave off this how is he connected to X&Y on D1.
3. Stutters
4.Cubu!!! - I am quite happy to policy lynch cubu every game I play with him if he is not posting more. Cubu post more or I will vote for you.
Two strongest town reads: (though town reads are kind of dubious atm, because strong mafia probably look like town now -d1 we are more trying to catch a weaker mafia I think)
1. Thrawn - I don't put much stock in the idea that him & Debears are necessarily linked in some way - but his posting has been strong all day
2. Sonic - Solid town posts, less high up for me though, just because I have the experience of playing with him in XXVI and know he is a strong player who fooled me for large parts of that game.
When I went to bed, I thought Sharrant was towny - he was following the same train of logic that I did and he was . Now I just don't know - others have totally fought with him on asking debears to roleclaim and that was a bad idea, I don't think he is a good d1 lynch, there is too much chance he flips bad town, but he is definitely a player I want to look at more closely as the game progresses
And the most important part - scum:
1.Debears - my scum read on him from yesterday has not changed that much, his hugely defensive posting since then is a bad, and I agree with Kush's attack on his last post. I sort of like that he is attacking rethos - but rethos is an easy target, a lurker who has only posted questions so far. I await to see what he has to say about Sharrant.
2.Atreidies - 3 posts, all bad , random setup speculation. You can pretty much sum up everything he has said so far as "I'm not convinced" - That is not at all scummy per se - but you need to combine that attitude with efforts to scumhunt yourself and contribute actively. Because he hasn't, it looks scummy to me.
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On September 19 2012 14:05 debears wrote:Show nested quote + Sharrant Canada. September 19 2012 12:15. Posts 15 PM Profile Quote #
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@Atreides
That was me that mentioned the possibility of them both being masons.
@Kush I agree with you about lurkers at this time. I'm ready to bury the hatchet on both debears and thrawn in order to get rid of one of our hard lurkers. I will be able to post an argument on you and Kush tomorrow, most likely in the morning. In the lurkers, there is one that still has my attention, Rethos. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 06:33 rethos wrote:
@thrawn2112 since the whole debears affair, your conflict with SDM seemed to have been left in the air. What is your current read about SDM? Do you have any other reads that the town might want to know about? This was his last post. Although he is posting, his posts are not beneficial. Most of the latest ones contain questions. He hasn't directed accusations at anyone. Show nested quote +Why, if he is town, is he trying to convince people he is right? What does that do? How does that help? Is it just bad town play? This is just a sample of what he does. Three questions in a row that he did not post an answer for himself. Most of his other posts follow a similar format. He just directs the question at someone. I understand the difference in time zones affecting the amount of posts. However, the quality is poor. He isn't taking a stand on anything. Looks like he is trying to look active without provoking anyone.
I actually like that you are attacking me belive it or not. That gives you some town points. But my suspicions on you still stand. I am asking A LOT of questions yes. But i do belive those are all beneficial.
Let's go over them on a post by post or even better group by group.
First of all i asked questions when SDM and thrawn2112 where the only ones that were getting a discussion going. After all the questioning I posted my opinion on it. The deal has fallen flat since you arrived but I still did not forget it so I asked for a conclusion in my last post because it seems bad to leave loose ends like that.
On to the second group of questions. Those are all directed at thrawn2112, your main defender. It's actually in my opinion an interogatory of both you and thrawn2112 and I like first making all things clear before I drop my 2c. Also all these questions are obviously (in my opinion) accusations directed towards you. Every single one can be understood to be "I find [object of said question] suspicious behaviour". The reason they are questions is because I am having a dialoge and not just writing down my thoughts.
TL,DR: The reason I pose un-answered questions is because they are all directed questions. Questions that I for one think should be answered by the person I ask. Please keep this discussion going if you are not satisfied with my answer.
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EPT
