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I think most long time DotA players are aware of most, if not some, of the history tying these two games together, but since DotA has been picked up by TL and there also happens to be many League players here I thought it would be good to share to those unfamiliar with it. To be honest, I haven't been around since the beginning, but I personally find this story to be one of the most compelling and captivating stories I've ever heard in relation to video games and their development. A story of ideology, drama, and humble beginnings to corporate attraction. The only thing missing is a triangle love affair.
So we begin our story in the old days of Starcraft 1 with a custom map known as Aeon of Strife made by someone named Aeon64. The concept of last hitting and attempting to reach the other player's base came from this game and would follow through to the Warcraft 3 mods, eventually leading to Eul making a game called "Defense of the Ancients" in 2002. More modern recognizable changes occurred during this period including the addition of spells, levels, and equipment. I would also like to point out during this time that these DotA versions, and the other many, many adaptations, are not very similar to the one we have today - simply a few concepts are shared.
Eul would eventually leave, letting others fiddle with DotA, and soon we would arrive at DotA Allstars in 2004 thanks to Meian and Ragn0r. Shortly after this version was further refined by a man named Guinsoo who would add many new heroes, leading to the birth of an actual competitive scene. Many consider Guinsoo to be the founder of this version of Dota Allstars. Later in 2004 Guinsoo would receive help from Icefrog and Neichus to keep up with the pace of the growing game and its rapidly growing fanbase. It was during this time that Pendragon would create a popular fan website known as dota-allstars.com
It was in 2005 that Guinsoo would take his leave (what he worked on during this time is up to speculation) and Neichus and Icefrog would take over. More heroes were added under Neichus and Icefrog, but it would not last as Neichus would also resign as developer, leaving Icefrog as the only one remaining between the 3 giants. Many have heard of Icefrog and he remains as the most influential DotA developer to this day. Developments throughout this time period weren't quick or drastic, but they were consistent and loyal to the game.
It would be around 2008-2009 in which the development of more modern versions with modern engines of DotA would be sought out for. The DotA scene still existed and did reasonably well in all parts of the world, but it still remained a Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne custom map.
Heroes of Newerth would be developed by the company S2, essentially a clone of DotA with a new engine, graphics, and art design. At one point in the beta it would reach upwards of 50k concurrent players online, but dropped off after release. It was also rumored that Icefrog was aiding in the design of the game at one point. That rumor, however, was unconfirmed although sources such as Pendragon and an anonymous Valve employee claimed it to be true. There would also be a blog on the subject of Icefrog called "The Truth About Icefrog" on aiding both S2 games and Riot, but other Valve employees dismissed the blog to be false.
Up until that point it seemed as though Pendragon and Icefrog remained relatively close as well as many other prominent figures. Most of these developers and important community members probably kept contact with each other, but rumors of differences in ideals and how to market the game clashed, leading to these people spreading apart and going in different directions. Pendragon wished to profit off the game; for so long it remained as a free, non-profit game for the players as just a custom map. Icefrog disagreed originally and wanted to keep the game free and open to everyone. Pendragon stated in his (in)famous letter to the dota-allstars community that Icefrog intended to sell rights for DotA to both Riot and S2 games behind his back, while Icefrog... well, said nothing because he's Icefrog. However, in defense of Icefrog, S2 replied "no comment" while Riot claimed they had never worked with Icefrog.
Pendragon and one of the original creators of Dota Allstars, Guinsoo, would then move on to team up with Riot. Back then in 2008 Riot was not a particularly large company, and no one really knew how far the game would go. Pendragon, previously stated to be the creator of the most popular dota fan-based website dota-allstars.com would shut it down for good in 2010 to completely move on to League of Legends. He claimed to archive the site but ultimately never kept his promise. Steve "Guinsoo" Freak made his sudden return to become the lead developer for League of Legends.
In 2009 Icefrog would officially work with Valve on the upcoming game DotA 2 while still remaining anonymous. It was also rumored that Eul, the original creator of DotA, was also part of the development team. This would also explain as to why an item titled "Eul's Sceptor of Divinity" keeps Eul's name in while the DotA 1 name "Guinsoo's Scythe of Vise" has the name Guinsoo removed.
And here we are today. League of Legends remains one of the most popular games in the world, holding millions of players with worldwide attraction including Korea and Taiwan backed by a multi-billion dollar company in Tencent. DotA has since been adopted by Valve, one of the most prominent if not the most prominent video game company in the world, carrying over its professional scene and previous talent in full.
If people were ever wondering why there is constant bickering between these communities, and why there always seems to be some sort of drama forming up behind the scenes then there you have it. League of Legends and DotA were not simply just games of the same genre in the same way that Call of Duty and Halo could both be considered FPS games. I don't have proof, but it is highly likely that relationships between the developers are not so great, and that they most likely never will be.
 
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Didn't something happen with Pendragon like spamming the dota forums or something? And that's why a lot of dota people hate him? I thought I heard sometihng about that
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On September 09 2012 10:32 TheWorldToCome wrote:
Didn't something happen with Pendragon like spamming the dota forums or something? And that's why a lot of dota people hate him? I thought I heard sometihng about that
He purged the teamliquid of dota and never released the archived versions that he had.
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The relationship between Guinsoo/Pendragon + Icefrog becomes even more interesting if you consider some of the changes that Riot games has made to LoL since release. The two games are surprisingly different from each other now given their origins. In the early days, LoL champs were a lot more similar to DotA heroes in terms of power/balance. There were a lot of really really strong/OP abilities + champs back in the day, which have since been nerfed to their current levels now. DotA2 on the other hand pretty much retains DotA 1's design philosophy. It's almost like twins separated at birth turning into two people with completely different personalities, lol.
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On September 09 2012 11:14 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
The relationship between Guinsoo/Pendragon + Icefrog becomes even more interesting if you consider some of the changes that Riot games has made to LoL since release. The two games are surprisingly different from each other now given their origins. In the early days, LoL champs were a lot more similar to DotA heroes in terms of power/balance. There were a lot of really really strong/OP abilities + champs back in the day, which have since been nerfed to their current levels now. DotA2 on the other hand pretty much retains DotA 1's design philosophy. It's almost like twins separated at birth turning into two people with completely different personalities, lol.
I think that's because of the addition of new developers who weren't so into the dota 1 scene. If you look at the very early LoL concepts they tried to go for a COMPLETELY different looking game, but eventually the finished product ended up being a lot closer to dota. The map and interface were way different, perhaps trying to distance themselves away from dota 1. I think now they are trying very hard to distance any relation to dota 1 despite LoL's origins being closely related. The birth of the term "moba", turrets, champions, summoners, etc when there is nothing stopping them from using the conventional dota counterparts.
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Wow... I never knew they were this close together. Man... and is guinsoo phreak? Now that would be REDICULOUS.
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Guinsoo is Steve Feak (not Freak)
Phreak is Dave Turley
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Didnt Pendragon also put up LoL ads? So when you visited Dota Allstars after its content was deleted you would get to see a LoL advertisement? Atleast thats what i heard somewhere and it would of course be a giant insult to the dota community.
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On September 09 2012 11:14 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
The relationship between Guinsoo/Pendragon + Icefrog becomes even more interesting if you consider some of the changes that Riot games has made to LoL since release. The two games are surprisingly different from each other now given their origins. In the early days, LoL champs were a lot more similar to DotA heroes in terms of power/balance. There were a lot of really really strong/OP abilities + champs back in the day, which have since been nerfed to their current levels now. DotA2 on the other hand pretty much retains DotA 1's design philosophy. It's almost like twins separated at birth turning into two people with completely different personalities, lol.
I disagree guisoo's dota was way more op than Icefrog's dota, After 6.xx was released the game became much more balanced than the popular 5.84 version...
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Japan11285 Posts
No wonder they removed the 'Guinsoo' in the scythe of vyse.
Thanks for the read.
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On September 09 2012 15:29 Scio wrote:
Didnt Pendragon also put up LoL ads? So when you visited Dota Allstars after its content was deleted you would get to see a LoL advertisement? Atleast thats what i heard somewhere and it would of course be a giant insult to the dota community.
He did
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On September 09 2012 15:54 ragnorr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 15:29 Scio wrote:
Didnt Pendragon also put up LoL ads? So when you visited Dota Allstars after its content was deleted you would get to see a LoL advertisement? Atleast thats what i heard somewhere and it would of course be a giant insult to the dota community. He did
Yep the site was purged off the internet, all the guides, every single post, everything got deleted permanently, for a LoL ad
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Dota Allstars is released now! I wonder why Pendragon decided to put it up after such a long time...
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On November 17 2012 00:14 noobcakes wrote:
Dota Allstars is released now! I wonder why Pendragon decided to put it up after such a long time...
I'm wondering the same thing. Too little, too late for forgiveness now I would imagine.
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What a great history. This is just gold. Thank you.
While reading this I was definitely reminiscing about War3 DotA. Downloading a new map just about every week. They definitely were consistent with the moving development forward. Having a balanced team 5v5 game was so key to extending the life of War3. That type of balance didn't exist in 4v4 games. Having a fair and competitive game I could play with 3 or 4 of my friends provided so many good times.
However finding and joining the same game with 4 of your friends in that interface I recall was sometimes difficult :-)
Regardless of what side you fall on it is good to see these guys as lead developers to successful, hopefully profitable titles. For all the free fun, and content the original DotA maps provided, I would hope it pays off for them.
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EPT
