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On July 22 2012 01:56 tube wrote:
Relative periods of inactivity are not scumtells, they're quite frankly just times when someone doesn't feel like playing. A bandwagon on me doesn't tell the town anything because it was so easy for mafia to make me an attractive lynch, despite that the only thing I can be indicted for is inactivity.
I can't speak for hopeless or fulla but you guys are going to find some difficulty making sense of things when I flip town.
Also, my vote on perfection reflects my confusion as to why the suspicion on him is suddenly cleared. Wiggles was undoubtedly going to be the d2 lynch anyway.
One of the prime resaons i became suspicious in first place was my lurking on the first day. You now use that in your defense of yourself but then vote for me. That dosent make sense and if you are town seems like a careless use of your vote. Regardless what are your thoughts now do still think im the prime suspect and if not what are your thoughts going forward.
and
fos tube
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In addition, Wiggles arguing for my lynch when nobody else was isn't in any way indicative of some convoluted attempt at bussing. He was trying to look pro-town by scumhunting random posts of mine while everyone else looked at Obvious.
After I argued with him with him being full aware that I'm actually town, it's in his best interest to back off since Obvious was an equally good lynch in his eyes.
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On July 22 2012 02:09 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 01:56 tube wrote:
Relative periods of inactivity are not scumtells, they're quite frankly just times when someone doesn't feel like playing. A bandwagon on me doesn't tell the town anything because it was so easy for mafia to make me an attractive lynch, despite that the only thing I can be indicted for is inactivity.
I can't speak for hopeless or fulla but you guys are going to find some difficulty making sense of things when I flip town.
Also, my vote on perfection reflects my confusion as to why the suspicion on him is suddenly cleared. Wiggles was undoubtedly going to be the d2 lynch anyway.
One of the prime resaons i became suspicious in first place was my lurking on the first day. You now use that in your defense of yourself but then vote for me. That dosent make sense and if you are town seems like a careless use of your vote. Regardless what are your thoughts now do still think im the prime suspect and if not what are your thoughts going forward. and fos tube
You're suspicious for the few posts you did make on the first day, they did nothing but vote on the person who already had the most votes.
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On July 21 2012 23:29 Hapahauli wrote:@ Hopeless1der - Good analysis, I have some commentary below regarding some of your conclusions. Agree on Jingle/YourHarry being guarenteed townies, however, I severely disagree with you on Tube. Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 13:13 Hopeless1der wrote:
--SNIP--
Day 1, wiggles was pushing tube as his scum read. I sincerely doubt he would have tried to bus that early in the game. This is a much weaker conclusion, but the case on tube seemed like a legitimate attempt to get him lynched.
I'm not 100% convinced that tube is town, but he's now going to be one of the last players I consider as a potential scum.
--SNIP-- While wiggles did build a case on Tube, its important to note the timing and situation in which he did so. Wiggles votes for Tube when the bandwagon train is firmly on Obvious.660 (3 votes for obvious, vs 1 vote for a bunch of other people) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=22#423They then get into an "argument" when Obvious.660 is set to lynch. After the night, drwiggl3s never mentions Tube again, even after grilling him for so long. This points to the "argument" being staged in a safe situation for both mafia. But the most incriminating evidence against Tube is his D2 vote and his complete lack of posting on D2. Tube was willing to post plently on N1, then immediately got quiet when suspicion was flying around Calgar and YourHarry. Furthermore, he comes in right when Jingle points out drwiggl3s scumslip and bandwagon votes iamperfection. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=44#870 <--- the vote, be sure to read the context around it
Hapa, you make a good point about wiggles dropping the case after day1. However, I disagree with your point about the specific timing of wiggles' vote. I dont think it was 'firmly' set on Obvious. The votecount following wiggles' vote is:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2012 05:43 Acrofales wrote:V V V V VOTE COUNT!!! Obvious.660 (4): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube, Evulrabbitz Tube (3): JingleHell, Obvious.660, YourHarry, drwiggl3s YourHarry (2): JingleHell, Hapahauli, calgar Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (1): calgar, Mufaa JingleHell (0): YourHarryNot yet voted: FullaObvious.660 set to be lynchedYou have about 2 1/4 hours till the deadline. Please use the correct format for voting, including ##s and unvotes when needed. Wrong votes will not be found by cntrl-f+ Show Spoiler [previous count] +On July 18 2012 01:56 Acrofales wrote:V V V V VOTE COUNT!!! Obvious.660 (3): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube Tube (1): JingleHell, Obvious.660 Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (1): calgar YourHarry (1): JingleHell, Hapahauli Not yet voted: Fulla, Mufaa, drwiggl3s, YourHarry, EvulrabbitzYou have about 6 hours till the deadline.+ Show Spoiler [previous count] +On July 17 2012 14:55 Probulous wrote:Vote Count Obvious.660 (2): YourHarry, JingleHell Tube (1): JingleHell, Obvious.660 YourHarry (0): JingleHellYou have about 17 hours till the deadline.
The votecount at deadline:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2012 07:31 Probulous wrote:Vote Count Obvious.660 (6): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube, Evulrabbitz, YourHarry, Fulla Tube (2): JingleHell, Obvious.660, YourHarry, drwiggl3s, YourHarry (0): JingleHell, Hapahauli, calgarFulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (3): calgar, Mufaa, Hapahauli, calgar JingleHell (0): YourHarryObvious.660 set to be lynched+ Show Spoiler [Previous Vote Count] +On July 18 2012 05:43 Acrofales wrote:V V V V VOTE COUNT!!! Obvious.660 (4): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube, Evulrabbitz Tube (3): JingleHell, Obvious.660, YourHarry, drwiggl3s YourHarry (2): JingleHell, Hapahauli, calgar Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (1): calgar, Mufaa JingleHell (0): YourHarryNot yet voted: FullaObvious.660 set to be lynchedYou have about 2 1/4 hours till the deadline. Please use the correct format for voting, including ##s and unvotes when needed. Wrong votes will not be found by cntrl-f+ Show Spoiler [previous count] +V V V V VOTE COUNT!!! Obvious.660 (3): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube Tube (1): JingleHell, Obvious.660 Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (1): calgar YourHarry (1): JingleHell, Hapahauli Not yet voted: Fulla, Mufaa, drwiggl3s, YourHarry, EvulrabbitzYou have about 6 hours till the deadline.+ Show Spoiler [previous count] +On July 17 2012 14:55 Probulous wrote:Vote Count Obvious.660 (2): YourHarry, JingleHell Tube (1): JingleHell, Obvious.660 YourHarry (0): JingleHellYou have about 17 hours till the deadline.
There was still ample opportunity to get tube lynched and wiggles did make some effort to do so. Tube's posting history is most certainly against him, but I still think he is town.By no means do I expect this to change your mind, but I want it made clear that I think tube is town and I am not currently willing to push for his lynch.
I went through calgar's filter, and I especially took notice of his case against iamperfection.
Looking at the way the votes fell, I think Hapa and calgar might have had the right idea day1 voting for iamperfection. At the end of day1:
Jingle, Harry, Evul are all voting for Obvious' lynch and are pretty much confirmed townies. I think tube is also town, and Fulla doesn't read scum. which leaves iamperfection. (This all goes out the window when you consider tube or fulla being mafia, which at present I do not)
Calgar, I'm reading you as town now. I don't like the way you side with Hapa but not Jingle during N1, but I think thats the remnants of the Day1 'wait and see' business so I'm not going to count that against you.
I agree with your earlier case that iamperfection is scum:
On July 20 2012 07:19 calgar wrote:Here’s my case:+ Show Spoiler +Let’s go back to iamperfection who I called out very early. I brought his case up before anyone else, as a matter of fact. If it’s such an obvious case then why was I the first to bring it up? I’d also like to remind you that a confirmed townie was suspicious of him. This is one of the reasons I thought obvious was innocent. Do me a favor and re-read my initial argument: On July 17 2012 06:24 calgar wrote:Two – Nice of you to grace us with a single post, iamperfection. I feel like this may have been somewhat buried so I’d like to bring it back to people’s attention. I want to call to attention poor logic and assumptions. Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 00:42 iamperfection wrote:It means i got me eye on you google is kind of usefull.
Although calgar's premise is wrong. I think a mafia member is more likely to put much more thought into their posts then a non mafia member. From my 1 game of experience in which i played more of a lurker role as a mafia member the other 2 members put a ton of thought and effort into their posts. Even as going as far as having the coach review their posts before posting them to see what they thought. Your logic: Hmm, so my premise about his anti-town behavior is wrong, based on your limited observations of being mafia last game? What?! First, that’s a terrible sample size. Second, it’s fallacious to assume that anything in your previous games has any relevance on how people will act in this one. Poor logic and mafia-like. What relevance does your specific last game have at all to our situation here? Show nested quote +You are by far looking the more sucpicious right now. The accusation on tube is telling to me. After the heat on you it seems you like you know want to set up a policy of lynching lurker or people that do one liners. Instead of drving the attention on one person it appears to me you are trying to get us looking at a whole group in order to confuse the town
FOS Calgar
Also, i think there is a possibility yourharry post was an attempt to get attention away from calgar
smaller FOS on YourHarry It looks like you just scanned my post quickly and attacked it as “trying to shift suspicion”. Did you even read it or consider what I meant? It seems like many others agree with me about his anti-town behavior. It seems you’re defending anti-town behavior of tube here. Why are you suggesting that I have some grand strategy of people to lynch? It looks to me like I made one very specific post about a single player. Yet I have plans of setting up a lynching policy to "confuse the town". Putting words into my mouth - very suspicious.Your post strikes me as if you were mafia and were planning how to enter the game late. You decided to jump onto someone’s reasoning bandwagon to try and avoid attention. Why do I say this? You make no effort in original thought. To me it looks like you scanned the thread, looked at who had been attacked, and said “Oh yeah I agree, FOS on the same two guys as jingle”. I think my case is straightforward and makes sense. Iamperfection has a habit of just jumping onto other people’s suspicions. It’s clear that he’s not even bothering to read the thread. He says neither I nor hapa have made arguments as a reason for us to be suspicious. We both, in fact, do. It’s like he’s playing a different game or all the arguments and evidence is just flying over his head. He then backs off of me after I vote him to avoid a confrontation. Now he’s back at it, tagging onto me with no reasoning. Look at this quote: On July 20 2012 01:24 iamperfection wrote:
Jingles claim looks legitamate to me. I'm not buying any crap that jingle should be dead because he bread crumbed. It would be so risky for jingle to lie and hell this is newbie mafia i didnt spot the bread crumb and im sure a lot of players didnt spot it. He bandwagons with jingle again. His second and third sentences are logically disconnected. What does the issue of whether or not mafia picked up on the breadcrumb have to do with how risky it is for jingle to lie? His play is so careless. It's fact that I've challenged people in the thread to talk more. iamperfection has never done this. Why does it seem that I am the only one that feels strongly about this? I think perf is very likely mafia. Even if you think I'm a bit suspicious, I knew jingle was JK so you're saying that mafia knew of the JK and didn't shoot. Why would mafia ever pass up such an easy blue? It looks like the mafia may have missed the breadcrumb. iamperfection missed it and I think he’s mafia. Is this not plausible? Lynch him first – you can always come back to me with more information.
However, I've come to that conclusion using a read that conflicts with your own (that tube is or isnt town). I'd like to get some more posts from both tube and iamperfection to confirm our reads, but I am most comfortable pushing for iamperfection's lynch tomorrow.
Most recently, iamperfection voices his concern that YourHarry is probably a bad idea, but doesn't switch his vote until after Jingle has moved on. It could very well be that he was scared of drawing attention, or he could be hiding behind Jingle's town cred. I see either action as being scum than being town. He made no pro-active effort to save YourHarry, and I count that against him.
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On July 22 2012 02:20 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 23:29 Hapahauli wrote:@ Hopeless1der - Good analysis, I have some commentary below regarding some of your conclusions. Agree on Jingle/YourHarry being guarenteed townies, however, I severely disagree with you on Tube. On July 21 2012 13:13 Hopeless1der wrote:
--SNIP--
Day 1, wiggles was pushing tube as his scum read. I sincerely doubt he would have tried to bus that early in the game. This is a much weaker conclusion, but the case on tube seemed like a legitimate attempt to get him lynched.
I'm not 100% convinced that tube is town, but he's now going to be one of the last players I consider as a potential scum.
--SNIP-- While wiggles did build a case on Tube, its important to note the timing and situation in which he did so. Wiggles votes for Tube when the bandwagon train is firmly on Obvious.660 (3 votes for obvious, vs 1 vote for a bunch of other people) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=22#423They then get into an "argument" when Obvious.660 is set to lynch. After the night, drwiggl3s never mentions Tube again, even after grilling him for so long. This points to the "argument" being staged in a safe situation for both mafia. But the most incriminating evidence against Tube is his D2 vote and his complete lack of posting on D2. Tube was willing to post plently on N1, then immediately got quiet when suspicion was flying around Calgar and YourHarry. Furthermore, he comes in right when Jingle points out drwiggl3s scumslip and bandwagon votes iamperfection. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=44#870 <--- the vote, be sure to read the context around it Hapa, you make a good point about wiggles dropping the case after day1. However, I disagree with your point about the specific timing of wiggles' vote. I dont think it was 'firmly' set on Obvious. The votecount following wiggles' vote is: + Show Spoiler +On July 18 2012 05:43 Acrofales wrote:V V V V VOTE COUNT!!! Obvious.660 (4): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube, Evulrabbitz Tube (3): JingleHell, Obvious.660, YourHarry, drwiggl3s YourHarry (2): JingleHell, Hapahauli, calgar Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (1): calgar, Mufaa JingleHell (0): YourHarryNot yet voted: FullaObvious.660 set to be lynchedYou have about 2 1/4 hours till the deadline. Please use the correct format for voting, including ##s and unvotes when needed. Wrong votes will not be found by cntrl-f+ Show Spoiler [previous count] +On July 18 2012 01:56 Acrofales wrote:V V V V VOTE COUNT!!! Obvious.660 (3): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube Tube (1): JingleHell, Obvious.660 Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (1): calgar YourHarry (1): JingleHell, Hapahauli Not yet voted: Fulla, Mufaa, drwiggl3s, YourHarry, EvulrabbitzYou have about 6 hours till the deadline.+ Show Spoiler [previous count] +On July 17 2012 14:55 Probulous wrote:Vote Count Obvious.660 (2): YourHarry, JingleHell Tube (1): JingleHell, Obvious.660 YourHarry (0): JingleHellYou have about 17 hours till the deadline.
The votecount at deadline: + Show Spoiler +On July 18 2012 07:31 Probulous wrote:Vote Count Obvious.660 (6): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube, Evulrabbitz, YourHarry, Fulla Tube (2): JingleHell, Obvious.660, YourHarry, drwiggl3s, YourHarry (0): JingleHell, Hapahauli, calgarFulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (3): calgar, Mufaa, Hapahauli, calgar JingleHell (0): YourHarryObvious.660 set to be lynched+ Show Spoiler [Previous Vote Count] +On July 18 2012 05:43 Acrofales wrote:V V V V VOTE COUNT!!! Obvious.660 (4): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube, Evulrabbitz Tube (3): JingleHell, Obvious.660, YourHarry, drwiggl3s YourHarry (2): JingleHell, Hapahauli, calgar Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (1): calgar, Mufaa JingleHell (0): YourHarryNot yet voted: FullaObvious.660 set to be lynchedYou have about 2 1/4 hours till the deadline. Please use the correct format for voting, including ##s and unvotes when needed. Wrong votes will not be found by cntrl-f+ Show Spoiler [previous count] +V V V V VOTE COUNT!!! Obvious.660 (3): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube Tube (1): JingleHell, Obvious.660 Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (1): calgar YourHarry (1): JingleHell, Hapahauli Not yet voted: Fulla, Mufaa, drwiggl3s, YourHarry, EvulrabbitzYou have about 6 hours till the deadline.+ Show Spoiler [previous count] +On July 17 2012 14:55 Probulous wrote:Vote Count Obvious.660 (2): YourHarry, JingleHell Tube (1): JingleHell, Obvious.660 YourHarry (0): JingleHellYou have about 17 hours till the deadline. There was still ample opportunity to get tube lynched and wiggles did make some effort to do so. Tube's posting history is most certainly against him, but I still think he is town.By no means do I expect this to change your mind, but I want it made clear that I think tube is town and I am not currently willing to push for his lynch.
I went through calgar's filter, and I especially took notice of his case against iamperfection. Looking at the way the votes fell, I think Hapa and calgar might have had the right idea day1 voting for iamperfection. At the end of day1: Jingle, Harry, Evul are all voting for Obvious' lynch and are pretty much confirmed townies. I think tube is also town, and Fulla doesn't read scum. which leaves iamperfection. (This all goes out the window when you consider tube or fulla being mafia, which at present I do not) Calgar, I'm reading you as town now. I don't like the way you side with Hapa but not Jingle during N1, but I think thats the remnants of the Day1 'wait and see' business so I'm not going to count that against you. I agree with your earlier case that iamperfection is scum: Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 07:19 calgar wrote:Here’s my case:+ Show Spoiler +Let’s go back to iamperfection who I called out very early. I brought his case up before anyone else, as a matter of fact. If it’s such an obvious case then why was I the first to bring it up? I’d also like to remind you that a confirmed townie was suspicious of him. This is one of the reasons I thought obvious was innocent. Do me a favor and re-read my initial argument: On July 17 2012 06:24 calgar wrote:Two – Nice of you to grace us with a single post, iamperfection. I feel like this may have been somewhat buried so I’d like to bring it back to people’s attention. I want to call to attention poor logic and assumptions. Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 00:42 iamperfection wrote:It means i got me eye on you google is kind of usefull.
Although calgar's premise is wrong. I think a mafia member is more likely to put much more thought into their posts then a non mafia member. From my 1 game of experience in which i played more of a lurker role as a mafia member the other 2 members put a ton of thought and effort into their posts. Even as going as far as having the coach review their posts before posting them to see what they thought. Your logic: Hmm, so my premise about his anti-town behavior is wrong, based on your limited observations of being mafia last game? What?! First, that’s a terrible sample size. Second, it’s fallacious to assume that anything in your previous games has any relevance on how people will act in this one. Poor logic and mafia-like. What relevance does your specific last game have at all to our situation here? Show nested quote +You are by far looking the more sucpicious right now. The accusation on tube is telling to me. After the heat on you it seems you like you know want to set up a policy of lynching lurker or people that do one liners. Instead of drving the attention on one person it appears to me you are trying to get us looking at a whole group in order to confuse the town
FOS Calgar
Also, i think there is a possibility yourharry post was an attempt to get attention away from calgar
smaller FOS on YourHarry It looks like you just scanned my post quickly and attacked it as “trying to shift suspicion”. Did you even read it or consider what I meant? It seems like many others agree with me about his anti-town behavior. It seems you’re defending anti-town behavior of tube here. Why are you suggesting that I have some grand strategy of people to lynch? It looks to me like I made one very specific post about a single player. Yet I have plans of setting up a lynching policy to "confuse the town". Putting words into my mouth - very suspicious.Your post strikes me as if you were mafia and were planning how to enter the game late. You decided to jump onto someone’s reasoning bandwagon to try and avoid attention. Why do I say this? You make no effort in original thought. To me it looks like you scanned the thread, looked at who had been attacked, and said “Oh yeah I agree, FOS on the same two guys as jingle”. I think my case is straightforward and makes sense. Iamperfection has a habit of just jumping onto other people’s suspicions. It’s clear that he’s not even bothering to read the thread. He says neither I nor hapa have made arguments as a reason for us to be suspicious. We both, in fact, do. It’s like he’s playing a different game or all the arguments and evidence is just flying over his head. He then backs off of me after I vote him to avoid a confrontation. Now he’s back at it, tagging onto me with no reasoning. Look at this quote: On July 20 2012 01:24 iamperfection wrote:
Jingles claim looks legitamate to me. I'm not buying any crap that jingle should be dead because he bread crumbed. It would be so risky for jingle to lie and hell this is newbie mafia i didnt spot the bread crumb and im sure a lot of players didnt spot it. He bandwagons with jingle again. His second and third sentences are logically disconnected. What does the issue of whether or not mafia picked up on the breadcrumb have to do with how risky it is for jingle to lie? His play is so careless. It's fact that I've challenged people in the thread to talk more. iamperfection has never done this. Why does it seem that I am the only one that feels strongly about this? I think perf is very likely mafia. Even if you think I'm a bit suspicious, I knew jingle was JK so you're saying that mafia knew of the JK and didn't shoot. Why would mafia ever pass up such an easy blue? It looks like the mafia may have missed the breadcrumb. iamperfection missed it and I think he’s mafia. Is this not plausible? Lynch him first – you can always come back to me with more information. However, I've come to that conclusion using a read that conflicts with your own (that tube is or isnt town). I'd like to get some more posts from both tube and iamperfection to confirm our reads, but I am most comfortable pushing for iamperfection's lynch tomorrow. Most recently, iamperfection voices his concern that YourHarry is probably a bad idea, but doesn't switch his vote until after Jingle has moved on. It could very well be that he was scared of drawing attention, or he could be hiding behind Jingle's town cred. I see either action as being scum than being town. He made no pro-active effort to save YourHarry, and I count that against him.
I made a read that yourharry constant attacking against jingle was dumb. I dont think a group of scum along with a coach would have wasted time and effort investing in making jingle look scummy when it was pretty clear that jingle was town . The on read that i was absoulute on was that jingle was town so that is why i followed his lead.
Now your suggesting that i bussed a power role scum at the same time putting my own neck on the line due to the voting numbers. It also wasnt very clear that we would be able to get done under the time constraits that we had. You can continue to waste time persuing me but i think the tube vote is a telling sign and his answers have not been good enough to clear any suspcion that i have so i will continue to try to get him to talk so we get a clearrer picture.
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@ Hopeless (regarding Tube) - Oh wow that's my mistake on the vote timing, I had used the wrong votecount post to post my case. However, even with the new vote timing (4 Obvious, 3 Tube), its not like Tube's in any danger in that situation. For that matter, with multiple townies very aggressively pushing for Obvious's lynch at that point, it was pretty obvious (no pun intended) that Obvious.660 would get lynched.
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also im going to the casino for the rest of the night wish me luck.
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On July 22 2012 02:39 iamperfection wrote:
also im going to the casino for the rest of the night wish me luck.
Good luck sir, may they not rob you for all you're worth =D
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On July 22 2012 01:56 tube wrote:
Relative periods of inactivity are not scumtells, they're quite frankly just times when someone doesn't feel like playing. A bandwagon on me doesn't tell the town anything because it was so easy for mafia to make me an attractive lynch, despite that the only thing I can be indicted for is inactivity. I'm not sure I understand why you don't feel like playing for days at a time when you joined the game with a pledge to be an active, participating member. You're worthless to the town as an inactive member. More of a liability, in fact, because while other townies have managed to 'clear' their names with good play, you've been inactive and made a rash, suspicious D2 vote without reading. You can be indicted for that as far as I'm concerned.
I can't speak for hopeless or fulla but you guys are going to find some difficulty making sense of things when I flip town. Also, my vote on perfection reflects my confusion as to why the suspicion on him is suddenly cleared. Wiggles was undoubtedly going to be the d2 lynch anyway. The suspicion isn't suddenly cleared. It more of on hold since better targets have come up since then. And we've learned a lot by going after those various targets while you haven't helped at all.
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@Hapa: I understand that Obvious looked like the more likely lynch target, but I still think that tube was in enough trouble that wiggles' efforts were not that of a Day1 bus. 4-3 with just over 2 hours is plenty of time. The voting ended 6-2, so you're right about people pushing for Obvious' lynch, but this is after-the-fact information. At the time it occurred, I still saw a good chance for tube to be lynched, and that gives me a town read since wiggles' flipped scum.
In any case, he's not confirmed. If you develop a strong case on him I will absolutely consider it.
@iamperfection: Jingle was clearly town. You are not clearly town, and leaving a vote on YourHarry makes you look scummier as you'll have been on both mislynches in that case. In addition, you were in the company of Jingle and Hapa - who started the case on YourHarry. You made your vote to "make us happy" in the first place. It just doesn't look good. In the event of a mislynch, you're the one I'm going to suspect most.
Overall you haven't done much for town. You're scummier to me than tube, or anyone else in the game right now. I don't think pursuing your lynch is a waste of time at all. It should generate some discussion and hopefully confirm some reads going into the next day, even if we end up lynching someone else. The burden is now on you to prove your towniness.
And finally, Good luck at the casino.
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I was dead wrong about JingleHell. He is CONFIRMED TOWNIE.
But in my defense, even though I didn't buy his claim, I also did express my reservation on why JingleHell is not a good lynch, at least not yesterday. And my suspicion mostly came from not believing that he did not know vanilla townies get roleblocked. Of course, after what happened with drwiggle, I want to almost COMPLETELY withdraw any suspicion I had with Jingle.
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On July 22 2012 03:26 YourHarry wrote:
I was dead wrong about JingleHell. He is CONFIRMED TOWNIE.
But in my defense, even though I didn't buy his claim, I also did express my reservation on why JingleHell is not a good lynch, at least not yesterday. And my suspicion mostly came from not believing that he did not know vanilla townies get roleblocked. Of course, after what happened with drwiggle, I want to almost COMPLETELY withdraw any suspicion I had with Jingle.
Okay. Now help us find more scum or identify more townies. What is your take on my read of tube being townie?
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Everybody was happily asleep. One of those nasties who wanted full control of their happy old age home was gone. Or.. well. Not everybody was happily asleep... JingleHell was up to his usual tricks. He was sneaking around the hallway wondering who he'd tie up tonight.
However, he didn't know that someone else was prowling about that night. As he was walking up a stairwell he heard a loud bang and a steadily increasing rattle.
JingleHell, the Jailer was rode over by a rampant wheelchair.
It is now day 3. You have 48 hrs to vote. Vote in this thread. If you have any questions about your role, please PM one of the hosts.
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Alright townies, I’ll call it like I see it.
Sorry to see you go jingle, we'll bag the rest for ya.
@confirmed townies – I consider everyone besides iamperfection, tube, fulla, and speed to be more or less ‘confirmed’ as town. This is in varying degrees, of course, considering the fact that we're going on guesses based on our reasoning. I feel reasonably confident that there is enough info to make solid assumptions here in most of the cases.
@direction – It’s difficult to say where to go now because the remaining players are a mix of inactivity and suspicious activity which is helping the mafia hide. I think all four of them have been generally inactive, some moreso than others. I assessed what tiny bit of mufaa’s old filter was there and the vague feel I got based off of it was town. Going off of what little that is, I’m inclined to put him/speedbump on hold and go towards the other three for now.
IGMEOY iamperfection, tube, fulla
I'll kick things off with this vote since it seems to be where hopeless and hapa are leaning towards also.
##Vote iamperfection
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I've been accused/questioned, so I've written a defense but no answers. So first off why am I suspicious?
Tell me what you want me to answer and I can help.
It would help if I wasn't ignored 
Also, so how many blue roles usually are there? We can pretty much assume there's no medic, is there usually 3 thou. So we might have a vigi to help?
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On July 22 2012 08:30 Fulla wrote:I've been accused/questioned, so I've written a defense but no answers. So first off why am I suspicious? Tell me what you want me to answer and I can help. It would help if I wasn't ignored Also, so how many blue roles usually are there? We can pretty much assume there's no medic, is there usually 3 thou. So we might have a vigi to help? fulla - the main reason I am suspicious of you is because you have a much smaller post history. This isn't necessarily suspicious in itself, but we're getting down to the end of the game and other players have managed to clear themselves in 'the towns' eyes. This leaves me in the dark a lot more than people with 4+ pages of filter. I haven't been able to get a read on you yet. With 4 people left to clear, this means the odds for you are higher than at the start.
Your vote for obvious and justification for it D1 are one of the reasons. You said it would be a no-lynch if you didn't vote but I think it was already decided. It's fishy that you misrepresented the actual scenario.
Leaving your vote where it was D2 also makes people a little uneasy.
You've been consistent on your hopeless case but I'm inclined to read him town. He jumped onto wiggles very quickly. Your tube case, I don't really know.
There are likely 3 blues in order for the game to be balanced. Whether or not that is the case, I'm not entirely sure.
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Poop. No medic. GG Jingle, great job this game
D2 started out on the wrong track, but fortunately we pulled a good lynch out of it at the end. Let's find us another scum D3.
@ Calgar - I'm on the same page with you on iamperfection, but I thought you mentioned before the D2 lynch that you were reading him as townie? Why the change in attitude?
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GG. I'm astounded. Much <3
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GG Jingle. I'm going to be really sad if it actually is my fault you're dead.
On July 22 2012 08:30 Fulla wrote:I've been accused/questioned, so I've written a defense but no answers. So first off why am I suspicious? Tell me what you want me to answer and I can help. It would help if I wasn't ignored Also, so how many blue roles usually are there? We can pretty much assume there's no medic, is there usually 3 thou. So we might have a vigi to help?
@Fulla:
First off, on the blue roles:
From what I've read, on TL newbie games are in general mafia favoured for one reason or another. Some hosts may attempt to give the town more blue roles to even the odds so to speak. That said, I haven't got a clue what a reasonable set up might be as I haven't played enough. I'd look into old Newbie Mini Mafia games for reference.
As to why you're suspicious:
When you were discussing the lynch on tube, you explained your reasoning such that if someone had a statistic that we pretty much wouldn't have, we could avoid lynching him. There is far more to making a scum read than just the number or length of a post. Your contributions were weak and in general not helpful in hunting scum.
When you addressed Obvious, you came to the conclusion that alot of the reasoning used to vote for him seemed flawed, but you ended up voting for him anyways without really contributing anything to the discussion. I get that you may not have has a strong read one way or another, but the failure to weigh in on the discussions and sit by the sidelines while the town does all the work makes you look bad.
Your vote day 1:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2012 07:10 Fulla wrote:Where the hell is obvious? Sigh.. It seems it's all down to me, I hate it when this happens. Let obvious be lynched or vote tube and force a no lynch. Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 06:16 JingleHell wrote:
Fulla, when he made that post, he was leaving his vote on tube, and also called me suspicious. Does that make us the fourth and fifth scum in that list of three you're accrediting to him?
Good point, I overlooked that. Let's see what he flips then. ## Vote Obvious.660 Completely untrue based on the lynch mechanics used this game. In no way could there have been a no lynch unless every single person voted for a no lynch. The fact that you didn't know this isn't necessarily scummy, but it makes you a liability because if you don't even understand the rules of the game, what confidence is there going to be in your reads when the thread is 50 pages long? I'm past the point of wanting to lynch someone for being bad town, as I think there is enough information to hunt scum, but earlier in the game, this type of behaviour might have stirred up a case on you if we lacked sufficient scum reads.
Your vote day 2 (and my response to your case):
+ Show Spoiler +On July 19 2012 23:16 Fulla wrote:
I screwed up the quoting, I meant to add, the part where he jumps in throws in more suspicion on Obvious, keeping it thriving, then try's to stay out of it and takes a stance that's he still going to vote me for lurking anyways.
That to me is very scummy.
##Vote Hopeless1der When I threw my suspicion on Obvious I made it clear that I would be willing to vote him as well and that I supported his lynch. Your entire case on me is based primarily on the fact that I pressured you day 1. On July 19 2012 23:39 Fulla wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 23:23 JingleHell wrote:
That reads painfully like an OMGUS, Fulla. I actually had to look that up on google. So he votes me, I get angry and react voting him back? The point was: - He didn't contribute to other suspicions/discussions. - Kept on and on about how inactive I am. (other inactive players what about them?) Why so over the top? - Seems he REALLY wanted me in the spotlight with suspicion. - Still managed to come in and make sure obvious was lynched. - But try to stay out of it with me and his target. Is that not dodgy? - I absolutely contribute to other suspicions/discussions. - I kept on and on because I WANT YOU TO BE ACTIVE. If I started going after every lurker, I would not only be wasting my time, but I'd have looked like I just wanted to policy lynch all of the lurkers. This doesn't do anything towards hunting scum because lurkers don't give you any information. I focused on one player to try to get a more active town. - If you would have taken some time to be active and contribute some reads to the town, I would have gladly removed my vote and moved on. I don't think your posts have been very productive. - If I needed to switch my vote to secure Obvious' lynch, I would have done so. - Let's be clear. I was the only person to vote for you. No one else has considered this to be particularly scummy (yet?) I was not actively pushing for your lynch, I wanted some activity from you and voting for you seemed like it might light a fire under you. Unfortunately it didn't. My vote was for pressure only, and it never seemed necessary to switch it later in the day. It wouldn't have affected any of the votes, and I was happy at the time with Obvious' lynch. For the other parts of your case: When tube was being criticized, we spent almost 4 pages banging on that drum. It was getting old. Seriously, do you think I wasn't justified in suspecting you based on my observations? Shortly after my post tube picked up his posting and the discussion continued. When you re-appeared ( Page 18), I responded to you 15 minutes later and never heard from you again. My question about your activity got answered when calgar brought it up again, but to me it looked like you were actively avoiding the fact that I was trying to call you out. When you returned the next time, my vote was already on you, but you never even addressed it. I'm pretty much convinced you didn't even notice at the time. If you had, why did you wait until the next freaking day to acknowledge it? I don't get how I can be seen as scummy based on my actions when you made absolutely no effort to confront me or defend yourself from my vote. You were never in any real danger anyways, but all of the sudden I'm scum because of it. When you call me out for creating an environment of suspicion, my focus at that point was tube, Obvious, and you. How does that constitute everyone? Your case doesn't make sense here. I wanted YOU to know how suspicious you are. If I'm the only one saying anything, clearly you don't see it. If multiple people call you on it, perhaps you'll be more inclined to contribute more to town. On July 19 2012 23:11 Fulla wrote:
I was not the only 1 lurking, yet it had barely been a day and he wants everyone know how suspicious I am? OH LOOK OTHER LURKERS (see spoiler for more details)! On July 19 2012 23:11 Fulla wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2012 08:48 Hopeless1der wrote:
Content notwithstanding, the following players are still on a 1 page filter:
(Post count started from Day 1 post)
Iamperfection: 3 posts
Fulla: 5 posts
Mufaa: 5 posts
drwiggl3s: 14 posts
Evulrabbitz: 7 posts
Players from above who voted for Obvious.660:
Iamperfection
Evulrabbitz
Fulla
I'll be gone for a bit. Going to look into iamperfection when I return, because he looks scummiest of the players listed there. This to me reads, his scum buddies got Obvious lynched, but these instead wants these 3 lynched. Note that Evlrabbitz turned out town as well. It leads to believe iamperfection is in fact town as well. So, I decided that I had a scummier read than you that I wanted to look at and that makes HIM town? You're grasping at straws by this point trying to paint me as scum.
Moving forward:
Fulla if you still think I'm scum, I'd love to talk about it. In the meantime, I think you're town but doing a poor job of it. I don't plan to vote for you today. Please make a more thorough effort to read through the thread, identify things you find scummy and reasons you think they are scummy. The reasoning is in many cases the more important part of that equation as it is the part that convinces the rest of the town that your read is legit.
Stand behind your decisions and play with conviction. If someone does something that you disagree with, make certain that they know that and why you feel that way.
For example:
On July 21 2012 04:43 Fulla wrote:
I REALLY dislike how many votes Harry is getting it just makes me think of an exact bandwagon repeat of the obvious lynch. If he was scum I'd at least expect a struggle other scum trying to defend him or accuse others. Or if not scum jumping in and bussing him for town cred.
As far as I know jingle is confirmed town? So I will just vote whatever he says. He's a much better player than me anyways.
I'm at work so I can't contribute much this is from my mobile. I'll be back 30 min before deadline for a better read and vote.
I still think my current vote is scum hopeless or hapless sorry I forgot? The guy trying to lynch me for nothing. But I'll back jingle.
Last thing the eerie silence about Harry getting lynched makes me think mafia are just sitting back laughing letting it happen. Can we vote someone else please?
You don't need permission to switch your vote. You made a correct read on YourHarry, but if Jingle hadn't jumped onto wiggles I don't think you would have switched your vote from Harry. You said yourself that you'd just vote whatever he says. Well to the town's great despair, he's gone now. What is your plan going forward?
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EBWOP Last paragraph) I was wrong about Fulla's vote, he was still on me D2. Reading that post I'd assumed that he'd already switched to match Jingle. Sentiment still stands at the end there. Push to get people off of someone you read as town and explain why.
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