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On June 15 2012 18:11 Defacer wrote: But you have to fair, sc2superfan. Over the course of Obama's presidency there were many instances when the Conservative Congress was willfully obstructing progress and being obstinate, and opposing Obama's decisions simply because he was Obama. they opposed his policies because they did not believe in them, i might as well say that you opposed Bush just because he was Bush.
Remember last Christmas when Boehner lost control of Congress, and the Republicans almost allowed taxes to rise after Obama and the Senate agreed to extend the payroll tax? Or their endless cock-blocking of routine appointments of key positions -- filled by personnel agreed upon by Republicans and Democrats -- which Obama eventually had to circumvent?
if you think that this kind of thing is anything new, then you need to learn what the term "Borking" means and where it comes from.
This kind of active sabotage is not revisionist history or imagined. You can blame Obama for not compromising or understanding the conservative perspective, but you can equally blame Republican congress for creating an environment where compromise wasn't even an option.
How do you compromise with someone that who's idea of negotiation is holding their breath until they pass out?
like i said, Obama has done nothing to compromise with us, so our position is that we shouldn't compromise with him, at all. if he had wanted to be a non-partisan President, he could have been. this idea that Republicans all hated Obama from the second he came in is revisionist history. most Republicans either supported Obama or were neutral about him, and they only turned on him when he decided to be the most leftist President we've ever had.
like i said, our definitions of compromise are so wildly different that im not sure there could ever be an agreement here.
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ron paul
User was warned for this post
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On June 16 2012 07:13 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 07:06 sc2superfan101 wrote:On June 15 2012 18:54 Probe1 wrote: sc2superfan101 I triple dog dare you to back up anything you've said with [citations]. A third of the country thought he was behind 9/11.
Right. oh ye of little faith: http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-215_162-2242387.htmlAccording to a July poll conducted by Scripps News Service, one-third of Americans think the government either carried out the 9/11 attacks or intentionally allowed them to happen in order to provide a pretext for war in the Middle East. 1/3 of respondents != 1/3 of Americans. Sadly, when you target stupid people for your survey, you get a lot of stupid answers. I wish people could get this. No group of people except an all-inclusive group of ~305M people can speak for ~305M people. yeah, well, that is moving the goalposts wildly beyond what could be considered reasonable. i suppose that you don't take any polls into account, ever, for any reason? i mean, that's a fine position to take, and i can't really argue with it, but at the same time, you are in the vast minority on that.
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On June 16 2012 07:07 forgottendreams wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 05:56 snailmouth wrote:On June 15 2012 20:53 Geo.Rion wrote:On June 15 2012 17:50 snailmouth wrote: Facts below, still love Obama?
1. Current National Debt: $15,782,580,057,771 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $926,046/min
2. Interest on National Debt: $3,827,378,018,217 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $287,376/min
3. Current GDP: $15,205,695,897,699 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $802,589/min 4. US Federal Spending: $3,651,989,529,450 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $181,130/min
5. Current Federal Tax Revenue: $2,301,724,804,226 - 6/14/2012 DECREASING by approxmiately $792/min
6. ??????
7. Profit!
scary statistics, GJ, now go and do the same research on the Bush administration, or any administration these past 30-40 years, save for Bill Clinton's. ???? Profit Exactly my point! It doesn't matter who wins. But here's the deal, we owe 3.5 trillion in interest for the year of 2012 SO FAR.. its going up by a rate of 287,000 dollars a minute. On top of that we have a budget deficit so large that we need to borrow another 1.5 trillion. The real problem is we only have about 2 trillion dollars of tax revenue coming in (which is slowly decreasing by 700 dollars a minute GO OBAMA!! GET THE PHAT CATS!!) so how do you pay those bills? You dont YOU BORROW MORE and then you're interest GOES UP!! Before you know it ladies and gents our national debt will far outweigh our GDP. YOU CAN EXPECT A DEFICIT OF AT LEAST 18 TRILLION DOLLARS NEXT YEAR! It's never going down its just going to keep growing and when it dwarfs the GDP our currency will crash.. Imminent collapse people. How do I protect myself from the collapse? Do you think I should buy a bunker or sell my house and put into gold?
Learn Japanese/Korean/Mandarin/maybe Russian/German.
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Seems like a lot of false or misleading data being thrown around... Seems like every political debate/discussion ever created.
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On June 16 2012 07:19 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 07:13 Chargelot wrote:On June 16 2012 07:06 sc2superfan101 wrote:On June 15 2012 18:54 Probe1 wrote: sc2superfan101 I triple dog dare you to back up anything you've said with [citations]. A third of the country thought he was behind 9/11.
Right. oh ye of little faith: http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-215_162-2242387.htmlAccording to a July poll conducted by Scripps News Service, one-third of Americans think the government either carried out the 9/11 attacks or intentionally allowed them to happen in order to provide a pretext for war in the Middle East. 1/3 of respondents != 1/3 of Americans. Sadly, when you target stupid people for your survey, you get a lot of stupid answers. I wish people could get this. No group of people except an all-inclusive group of ~305M people can speak for ~305M people. yeah, well, that is moving the goalposts wildly beyond what could be considered reasonable. i suppose that you don't take any polls into account, ever, for any reason? i mean, that's a fine position to take, and i can't really argue with it, but at the same time, you are in the vast minority on that.
I'd be more suspect of the Scrips poll than most others. Firstly, they don't explain their polling methods besides "random selection," which means there might be response biases; it was part of a massive survey. Secondly, the survey that question was a part of returned some other "interesting" results. Evidently ~40% of Americans think the US government is withholding proof of the existence of intelligent life from others planets." Thirdly, a Rasmussen poll conducted shortly afterwards found that only 22% of Americans are truthers, which, while scary, is much lower than Scripps' figure and well beyond Scrips' claimed margin of error. Fourthly, this.
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On June 16 2012 05:56 snailmouth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 20:53 Geo.Rion wrote:On June 15 2012 17:50 snailmouth wrote: Facts below, still love Obama?
1. Current National Debt: $15,782,580,057,771 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $926,046/min
2. Interest on National Debt: $3,827,378,018,217 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $287,376/min
3. Current GDP: $15,205,695,897,699 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $802,589/min 4. US Federal Spending: $3,651,989,529,450 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $181,130/min
5. Current Federal Tax Revenue: $2,301,724,804,226 - 6/14/2012 DECREASING by approxmiately $792/min
6. ??????
7. Profit!
scary statistics, GJ, now go and do the same research on the Bush administration, or any administration these past 30-40 years, save for Bill Clinton's. ???? Profit Exactly my point! It doesn't matter who wins. But here's the deal, we owe 3.5 trillion in interest for the year of 2012 SO FAR.. its going up by a rate of 287,000 dollars a minute. On top of that we have a budget deficit so large that we need to borrow another 1.5 trillion. The real problem is we only have about 2 trillion dollars of tax revenue coming in (which is slowly decreasing by 700 dollars a minute GO OBAMA!! GET THE PHAT CATS!!) so how do you pay those bills? You dont YOU BORROW MORE and then you're interest GOES UP!! Before you know it ladies and gents our national debt will far outweigh our GDP. YOU CAN EXPECT A DEFICIT OF AT LEAST 18 TRILLION DOLLARS NEXT YEAR! It's never going down its just going to keep growing and when it dwarfs the GDP our currency will crash.. Imminent collapse people. I wasn't aware that we pay ~50% interest rates on U.S. debt, because that's what it would take to pay $3.5 trillion in interest in just 6 months.
In actuality, we're paying about $200-300 billion in interest payments per year at current interest rates, or just under 8% of our total budget. This is really what matters, and what plays a large role in determining if markets find U.S. debt attractive. As a point of comparison, we were spending closer to 10% of our budget on interest payments in 2007, before any sign of the collapse. Also, it's key to note how fast the economy is growing compared to the debt. As soon as the economy is growing faster, we'll start to see the debt to erode on its own.
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On June 16 2012 07:17 sc2superfan101 wrote:
like i said, Obama has done nothing to compromise with us, so our position is that we shouldn't compromise with him, at all. if he had wanted to be a non-partisan President, he could have been. this idea that Republicans all hated Obama from the second he came in is revisionist history. most Republicans either supported Obama or were neutral about him, and they only turned on him when he decided to be the most leftist President we've ever had.
like i said, our definitions of compromise are so wildly different that im not sure there could ever be an agreement here.
Give me a single 'compromise' that Congress Republicans wanted as an example, please.
I think it's critical to note that Obama agrees with you -- the established and veteran GOP isn't the problem. In Cleveland, he specifically calls out "Romney, and his allies in Congress" -- and has been making this distinction for a while now.
But don't take my word for it. Even Jeb Bush agrees that the freshman Republican congress has been purposefully obstructing policy to the detriment of the GOP and the country.
"Ronald Reagan would have, based on his record of finding accommodation, finding some degree of common ground, as would my dad — they would have a hard time if you define the Republican party — and I don’t — as having an orthodoxy that doesn’t allow for disagreement, doesn’t allow for finding some common ground."
Conservatives might have ignored Bush’s apostasy except that this was the second time in two weeks that he had strayed from the reservation. On June 1, he told the House Budget Committee that he would be willing to accept a budget deal that cut spending $10 for every $1 of tax increase. The GOP party line is that taxes must not be increased by so much as a penny for any reason. Bush also denounced the so-called pledge against raising taxes that virtually every Republican has signed, noting that he never signed it.
Barack Obama has often praised Reagan. Meanwhile, Republican leaders admit that Reagan would clearly be out of step with his party and would not be able to secure its presidential nomination today. Jeb Bush is not the only one.
Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee: “Ronald Reagan would have a very difficult, if not impossible time being nominated in this atmosphere of the Republican Party.”
Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA): Reagan “would never be elected today in my opinion.” Other Republicans note Reagan’s commitment to compromise and working with Democrats to find solutions to pressing national problems.
Former chairman of the Republican National CommitteeHaley Barbour: “Let me make sure that one thing is clear about Ronald Reagan’s Republican Party: Reagan did not demand or expect everyone to agree with him on every issue. He wasn’t a purist. Some candidates are vying to be the most conservative candidate, and some voters are seeking purity in their choice. Well, in politics purity is a dead-dog loser. You need unity. And purity is the enemy of unity.”
Former Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE): “Reagan wouldn't identify with this party. There's a streak of intolerance in the Republican Party today that scares people. Intolerance is a very dangerous thing in a society because it always leads to a tragic ending. Ronald Reagan was never driven by ideology. He was a conservative but he was a practical conservative. He wanted limited government but he used government and he used it many times. And he would work with the other party.”
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2012/06/15/Why-Ronald-Reagan-Would-Not-Lead-Todays-GOP.aspx#page1
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On June 16 2012 07:51 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 05:56 snailmouth wrote:On June 15 2012 20:53 Geo.Rion wrote:On June 15 2012 17:50 snailmouth wrote: Facts below, still love Obama?
1. Current National Debt: $15,782,580,057,771 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $926,046/min
2. Interest on National Debt: $3,827,378,018,217 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $287,376/min
3. Current GDP: $15,205,695,897,699 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $802,589/min 4. US Federal Spending: $3,651,989,529,450 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $181,130/min
5. Current Federal Tax Revenue: $2,301,724,804,226 - 6/14/2012 DECREASING by approxmiately $792/min
6. ??????
7. Profit!
scary statistics, GJ, now go and do the same research on the Bush administration, or any administration these past 30-40 years, save for Bill Clinton's. ???? Profit Exactly my point! It doesn't matter who wins. But here's the deal, we owe 3.5 trillion in interest for the year of 2012 SO FAR.. its going up by a rate of 287,000 dollars a minute. On top of that we have a budget deficit so large that we need to borrow another 1.5 trillion. The real problem is we only have about 2 trillion dollars of tax revenue coming in (which is slowly decreasing by 700 dollars a minute GO OBAMA!! GET THE PHAT CATS!!) so how do you pay those bills? You dont YOU BORROW MORE and then you're interest GOES UP!! Before you know it ladies and gents our national debt will far outweigh our GDP. YOU CAN EXPECT A DEFICIT OF AT LEAST 18 TRILLION DOLLARS NEXT YEAR! It's never going down its just going to keep growing and when it dwarfs the GDP our currency will crash.. Imminent collapse people. I wasn't aware that we pay ~50% interest rates on U.S. debt, because that's what it would take to pay $3.5 trillion in interest in just 6 months. In actuality, we're paying about $200-300 billion in interest payments per year at current interest rates, or just under 8% of our total budget. This is really what matters, and what plays a large role in determining if markets find U.S. debt attractive. As a point of comparison, we were spending closer to 10% of our budget on interest payments in 2007, before any sign of the collapse. Also, it's key to note how fast the economy is growing compared to the debt. As soon as the economy is growing faster, we'll start to see the debt to erode on its own.
For your interest.
The Federal Budget
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On June 16 2012 07:17 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:11 Defacer wrote: But you have to fair, sc2superfan. Over the course of Obama's presidency there were many instances when the Conservative Congress was willfully obstructing progress and being obstinate, and opposing Obama's decisions simply because he was Obama. they opposed his policies because they did not believe in them, i might as well say that you opposed Bush just because he was Bush. Show nested quote + Remember last Christmas when Boehner lost control of Congress, and the Republicans almost allowed taxes to rise after Obama and the Senate agreed to extend the payroll tax? Or their endless cock-blocking of routine appointments of key positions -- filled by personnel agreed upon by Republicans and Democrats -- which Obama eventually had to circumvent?
if you think that this kind of thing is anything new, then you need to learn what the term "Borking" means and where it comes from. Show nested quote + This kind of active sabotage is not revisionist history or imagined. You can blame Obama for not compromising or understanding the conservative perspective, but you can equally blame Republican congress for creating an environment where compromise wasn't even an option.
How do you compromise with someone that who's idea of negotiation is holding their breath until they pass out?
like i said, Obama has done nothing to compromise with us, so our position is that we shouldn't compromise with him, at all. if he had wanted to be a non-partisan President, he could have been. this idea that Republicans all hated Obama from the second he came in is revisionist history. most Republicans either supported Obama or were neutral about him, and they only turned on him when he decided to be the most leftist President we've ever had. like i said, our definitions of compromise are so wildly different that im not sure there could ever be an agreement here.
Obama isn't even more leftist than previous presidents like Richrad Nixon. I mean, how is passing healthcare reform that is largely similar a Republican proposal being unprecedently leftist? Was the 94 Republican Congress the most leftist congress in history? I honestly have trouble figuring out how anyone, left or right, could consider Obama the most leftist president in the United States of America without being deliberately dishonest.
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Edit: Obama's policies are to the right of Canada's conservative 'right-wing' Prime Minister.
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On June 16 2012 07:51 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 05:56 snailmouth wrote:On June 15 2012 20:53 Geo.Rion wrote:On June 15 2012 17:50 snailmouth wrote: Facts below, still love Obama?
1. Current National Debt: $15,782,580,057,771 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $926,046/min
2. Interest on National Debt: $3,827,378,018,217 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $287,376/min
3. Current GDP: $15,205,695,897,699 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $802,589/min 4. US Federal Spending: $3,651,989,529,450 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $181,130/min
5. Current Federal Tax Revenue: $2,301,724,804,226 - 6/14/2012 DECREASING by approxmiately $792/min
6. ??????
7. Profit!
scary statistics, GJ, now go and do the same research on the Bush administration, or any administration these past 30-40 years, save for Bill Clinton's. ???? Profit Exactly my point! It doesn't matter who wins. But here's the deal, we owe 3.5 trillion in interest for the year of 2012 SO FAR.. its going up by a rate of 287,000 dollars a minute. On top of that we have a budget deficit so large that we need to borrow another 1.5 trillion. The real problem is we only have about 2 trillion dollars of tax revenue coming in (which is slowly decreasing by 700 dollars a minute GO OBAMA!! GET THE PHAT CATS!!) so how do you pay those bills? You dont YOU BORROW MORE and then you're interest GOES UP!! Before you know it ladies and gents our national debt will far outweigh our GDP. YOU CAN EXPECT A DEFICIT OF AT LEAST 18 TRILLION DOLLARS NEXT YEAR! It's never going down its just going to keep growing and when it dwarfs the GDP our currency will crash.. Imminent collapse people. I wasn't aware that we pay ~50% interest rates on U.S. debt, because that's what it would take to pay $3.5 trillion in interest in just 6 months. In actuality, we're paying about $200-300 billion in interest payments per year at current interest rates, or just under 8% of our total budget. This is really what matters, and what plays a large role in determining if markets find U.S. debt attractive. As a point of comparison, we were spending closer to 10% of our budget on interest payments in 2007, before any sign of the collapse. Also, it's key to note how fast the economy is growing compared to the debt. As soon as the economy is growing faster, we'll start to see the debt to erode on its own.
you're just plain wrong we pay about 20% interest on our debt which is roughly 3 trillion a year and growing. according to your 200 billion dollar figure the interest rate would be like 0.013% you really think thats our interest rate LMAO www.usdebtclock.org
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On June 16 2012 10:33 snailmouth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 07:51 aksfjh wrote:On June 16 2012 05:56 snailmouth wrote:On June 15 2012 20:53 Geo.Rion wrote:On June 15 2012 17:50 snailmouth wrote: Facts below, still love Obama?
1. Current National Debt: $15,782,580,057,771 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $926,046/min
2. Interest on National Debt: $3,827,378,018,217 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $287,376/min
3. Current GDP: $15,205,695,897,699 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $802,589/min 4. US Federal Spending: $3,651,989,529,450 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $181,130/min
5. Current Federal Tax Revenue: $2,301,724,804,226 - 6/14/2012 DECREASING by approxmiately $792/min
6. ??????
7. Profit!
scary statistics, GJ, now go and do the same research on the Bush administration, or any administration these past 30-40 years, save for Bill Clinton's. ???? Profit Exactly my point! It doesn't matter who wins. But here's the deal, we owe 3.5 trillion in interest for the year of 2012 SO FAR.. its going up by a rate of 287,000 dollars a minute. On top of that we have a budget deficit so large that we need to borrow another 1.5 trillion. The real problem is we only have about 2 trillion dollars of tax revenue coming in (which is slowly decreasing by 700 dollars a minute GO OBAMA!! GET THE PHAT CATS!!) so how do you pay those bills? You dont YOU BORROW MORE and then you're interest GOES UP!! Before you know it ladies and gents our national debt will far outweigh our GDP. YOU CAN EXPECT A DEFICIT OF AT LEAST 18 TRILLION DOLLARS NEXT YEAR! It's never going down its just going to keep growing and when it dwarfs the GDP our currency will crash.. Imminent collapse people. I wasn't aware that we pay ~50% interest rates on U.S. debt, because that's what it would take to pay $3.5 trillion in interest in just 6 months. In actuality, we're paying about $200-300 billion in interest payments per year at current interest rates, or just under 8% of our total budget. This is really what matters, and what plays a large role in determining if markets find U.S. debt attractive. As a point of comparison, we were spending closer to 10% of our budget on interest payments in 2007, before any sign of the collapse. Also, it's key to note how fast the economy is growing compared to the debt. As soon as the economy is growing faster, we'll start to see the debt to erode on its own. you're just plain wrong we pay about 20% interest on our debt which is roughly 3 trillion a year and growing. according to your 200 billion dollar figure the interest rate would be like 0.013% you really think thats our interest rate LMAO www.usdebtclock.org I don't think you understand how the debt works. Do you know the difference between debt and deficit?
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On June 16 2012 12:08 kwizach wrote: Do you know the difference between debt and deficit? I think this is the source of the confusion
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On June 16 2012 12:08 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 10:33 snailmouth wrote:On June 16 2012 07:51 aksfjh wrote:On June 16 2012 05:56 snailmouth wrote:On June 15 2012 20:53 Geo.Rion wrote:On June 15 2012 17:50 snailmouth wrote: Facts below, still love Obama?
1. Current National Debt: $15,782,580,057,771 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $926,046/min
2. Interest on National Debt: $3,827,378,018,217 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $287,376/min
3. Current GDP: $15,205,695,897,699 - 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $802,589/min 4. US Federal Spending: $3,651,989,529,450 6/14/2012 Increasing by approximately $181,130/min
5. Current Federal Tax Revenue: $2,301,724,804,226 - 6/14/2012 DECREASING by approxmiately $792/min
6. ??????
7. Profit!
scary statistics, GJ, now go and do the same research on the Bush administration, or any administration these past 30-40 years, save for Bill Clinton's. ???? Profit Exactly my point! It doesn't matter who wins. But here's the deal, we owe 3.5 trillion in interest for the year of 2012 SO FAR.. its going up by a rate of 287,000 dollars a minute. On top of that we have a budget deficit so large that we need to borrow another 1.5 trillion. The real problem is we only have about 2 trillion dollars of tax revenue coming in (which is slowly decreasing by 700 dollars a minute GO OBAMA!! GET THE PHAT CATS!!) so how do you pay those bills? You dont YOU BORROW MORE and then you're interest GOES UP!! Before you know it ladies and gents our national debt will far outweigh our GDP. YOU CAN EXPECT A DEFICIT OF AT LEAST 18 TRILLION DOLLARS NEXT YEAR! It's never going down its just going to keep growing and when it dwarfs the GDP our currency will crash.. Imminent collapse people. I wasn't aware that we pay ~50% interest rates on U.S. debt, because that's what it would take to pay $3.5 trillion in interest in just 6 months. In actuality, we're paying about $200-300 billion in interest payments per year at current interest rates, or just under 8% of our total budget. This is really what matters, and what plays a large role in determining if markets find U.S. debt attractive. As a point of comparison, we were spending closer to 10% of our budget on interest payments in 2007, before any sign of the collapse. Also, it's key to note how fast the economy is growing compared to the debt. As soon as the economy is growing faster, we'll start to see the debt to erode on its own. you're just plain wrong we pay about 20% interest on our debt which is roughly 3 trillion a year and growing. according to your 200 billion dollar figure the interest rate would be like 0.013% you really think thats our interest rate LMAO www.usdebtclock.org I don't think you understand how the debt works. Do you know the difference between debt and deficit? I'm starting to think he doesn't know what interest, debt, deficit, budget, percent, and trillion actually mean.
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I think you're just in denial or something. Do you understand that we have to pay interest on our 15 trillion dollar national debt? Do you understand that we make less money from taxes than the interest on the debt alone? We have already past the point of no return so like I said it doesn't matter if you are a member of Obama's personality cult or not because neither he or Romney can do a thing about it at this point. Not sure where you make the assumption that I don't know the difference between debt and deficit spending tho. I'm sure you do realize that deficit spending does add to the debt tho.. which in turn incurs interest.. which in turn adds to the deficit and the total debt.
Also i love how nobody is bringing up the obviously untrue "we only pay 200 billion in interest" after i pointed out the ridiculously low rate that would require 0.013%
Instead of making rational counter arguments you should all slap Obama bumper stickers on your foreheads, call me names and tell me how stupid I am.
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On April 19 2012 18:18 Mentalizor wrote: Scumbag europeans will ruin this poll (^_^) Really to us (at least in Denmark) Obama is somewhat a right-wing politician and Romney is just off the charts right winged. I think if a vote between these two happened in Scandinavia Obama would have 80%+ of the votes.
Same goes for France and frankly any EU country or almost. Their politics are just a major right step from ours, Romney would be considered a fanatic and an unrealistic / unresponsible choice for a huge part. Seriously guys, please dont fuck up
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On June 16 2012 16:41 snailmouth wrote: I think you're just in denial or something. Do you understand that we have to pay interest on our 15 trillion dollar national debt? Do you understand that we make less money from taxes than the interest on the debt alone? We have already past the point of no return so like I said it doesn't matter if you are a member of Obama's personality cult or not because neither he or Romney can do a thing about it at this point. Not sure where you make the assumption that I don't know the difference between debt and deficit spending tho. I'm sure you do realize that deficit spending does add to the debt tho.. which in turn incurs interest.. which in turn adds to the deficit and the total debt.
Also i love how nobody is bringing up the obviously untrue "we only pay 200 billion in interest" after i pointed out the ridiculously low rate that would require 0.013%
Instead of making rational counter arguments you should all slap Obama bumper stickers on your foreheads, call me names and tell me how stupid I am. You got it. You obviously don't know what debt, deficit, and interest actually mean.
Deficit is the difference between budgeted revenue and expenditures, in this case over a fiscal year. It's not a cumulative number and really only partially measures the rate at which debt grows.
Debt is the total amount of money owed, and in this case, it's how much the U.S. owes in total to everybody who buys treasury notes, does business with the government on lines of credit, and whom have yet to receive owed benefits.
Interest is the cost of having the debt, measured by annual fees paid to the issuer of the credit. Because of the nature of credit, you can borrow money to pay off other lenders, which means only the interest really matters when talking about debt burden.
For the U.S., we are borrowing all short term debt at a rate near 0%, meaning we just borrow money from a new creditor to pay off the old at almost no cost. Mid term debt, the 10 year note specifically, is getting close to 1.5% yearly cost and is what is considered to be the bellwether of the actual cost of debt. For the sake of simplicity, if we use the U.S. debt as $15 trillion and 1.5% interest rate, we find that the cost of borrowing that money is $225 billion a year.
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On June 16 2012 16:41 snailmouth wrote: Also i love how nobody is bringing up the obviously untrue "we only pay 200 billion in interest" after i pointed out the ridiculously low rate that would require 0.013%
They're talking about annual interest payments, which is what is relevant to the deficit (see above post for definition of "deficit").
It sounds like you're talking about the future sum of all expected interest payments on the current debt?
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On June 16 2012 09:21 Defacer wrote: Edit: Obama's policies are to the right of Canada's conservative 'right-wing' Prime Minister. Non-US are far more left-wing than the US in general. Blame the Cold War, really. Anti-socialism spawns from a war that ended 20 years ago.
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