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On June 09 2012 12:42 s3rp wrote:They might've added it again but in the build with the showmatch there was no nitro packs available in the techlab . Not sure whats accurate though.
I'm assuming the HOTS station at MLG has a newer build than the showmatch... so I think live MLG info trumps showmatch info.
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On June 09 2012 12:36 Kaw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:31 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:30 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:27 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:25 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:22 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:20 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:18 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:17 Xapti wrote:On June 09 2012 12:04 Doc Daneeka wrote: i still think entomb and abduct are really dumb, contrived abilities. but i'm liking most of the rest of it. i especially like how they've decided to use the mothership. You're not using "contrived" in the right way, and "dumb" is really vague. I personally like both the abilities. Both of these abilities will make for much more active gameplay. Entomb is kinda crazy though, but I like how it works. I like the idea, most probably it will be balanced in Beta. I hate the idea. It is more of a macro mechanic than a form of harass. There is nothing exciting about flying into your opponents mineral line and back out once every 45 seconds. Its about as interesting as a zerg injecting larva. Well.. state of the game has talked about it before. Its more of a "pro" unit then a noob unit. Pros will love it, while noobs will hate it because it requires attention. :/ I'm not complaining that it is going to be difficult. I am complaining that there will be nothing interesting or skillful about using it. If you have the energy to cast entomb, then you fly into his mineral line and cast it. There is no decision to be made or strategy to be used. It is as difficult and as interesting as inject larva. You have no idea how bad it is to freeze one whole mineral base do you? With that income lost, you basically just created a timing window for attack for yourself. Its fucking awesome. I'm also not saying it isn't good. I'm saying that as it stands now it works the same way as inject larva which is stupid for players and is stupid for spectators. Look at the battle report. What can you say about that harass besides "He is spending his energy as well as any player above platinum is expected to." The toss won dude.. and by cutting income , you are cutting units. Pretty good trade IMO. I don't think you understand what I am saying. If inject gave a zerg 100 larva it would be stupidly strong, but it would still be as exciting to watch as it is now. Entomb is good. I'm not denying that. The problem is it is fucking boring and the only "skill" involved is casting it every time you get the energy for it. Harassing with entomb works the same way dropping mules does for terran, and they are equally exciting to watch. Entomb is a macro mechanic, not a form of harass.
I agree completely. I don't want a harass unit that is essentially a skill-check for my macro abilities, I want an exciting high-risk, high-reward unit that I can stick in a warp prism that rewards skilful micro (hint, hint: reaver).
Seriously though, I'm not advocating that we bring back the reaver but it was definitely a hell of a lot more fun to watch and to use than the oracle looks to be.
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Hydras are scary. Like seriously scary. No doubt someone will come up with a 12 min hydra/viper all in.
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On June 09 2012 12:45 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:42 s3rp wrote:They might've added it again but in the build with the showmatch there was no nitro packs available in the techlab . Not sure whats accurate though. I'm assuming the HOTS station at MLG has a newer build than the showmatch... so I think live MLG info trumps showmatch info.
I guess that would make Reapers useful again. TvT early game is gonna be a bitch though :o .
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On June 09 2012 12:44 Plethora wrote: Know what I'm deciding I dislike most about SC2 and all these new units are just hammering home? The lack of anything fun and microable...
I miss vultures, reaver & shuttle, muta micro, hell even marine vs lurker micro.
What are the most microable units in SC2? Reaper (nerfed to the point of being irrelevent) Banshees maybe? Blink Stalkers? Both have some fun micro tricks but nothing thats really going to make a crowd ooh and ahh. I think the coolest microing in SC2 is probably marine splitting vs banelings. That's one of the very few things you can watch a pro do and really just kinda marvel at sometimes. Aside from that, what is there?
the oracle isn't micro-able and won't rely on multitasking/micro late game? oh, ok.
what about a new mech TvP that will involve a lot of hellions that can be dropped / microd at protoss expansions, or mines that can be placed at mineral fields, etc. that isn't just as micro intensive as spam right-clicking a flock of mutas? ok.
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looking very interesting, ignoring balance wise, that show match was played quite nice (I don't like how creep looks on minimap though)
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I like the fact that terran gets absolutely nothing new against zerg in HotS.
Warhound is only good against mechanical units ,zerg has none.
Widow mines are bullshit since they'll just attach to zerglings which will make them into an ultimate allahu akhbar unit.
Transformer hellions are without comment ,do not see any use for them in TvZ.
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On June 09 2012 12:47 -Exalt- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:44 Plethora wrote: Know what I'm deciding I dislike most about SC2 and all these new units are just hammering home? The lack of anything fun and microable...
I miss vultures, reaver & shuttle, muta micro, hell even marine vs lurker micro.
What are the most microable units in SC2? Reaper (nerfed to the point of being irrelevent) Banshees maybe? Blink Stalkers? Both have some fun micro tricks but nothing thats really going to make a crowd ooh and ahh. I think the coolest microing in SC2 is probably marine splitting vs banelings. That's one of the very few things you can watch a pro do and really just kinda marvel at sometimes. Aside from that, what is there? the oracle isn't micro-able and won't rely on multitasking/micro late game? oh, ok. what about a new mech TvP that will involve a lot of hellions that can be dropped / microd at protoss expansions, or mines that can be placed at mineral fields, etc. that isn't just as micro intensive as spam right-clicking a flock of mutas? ok.
The oracle is an eazy peazy no-micro no-skill unit. With one click of a button you shut down someone's economy. What a joke. Terran has enough units they gotta micro, while Protoss have very very few and win most of their engagements with A+moving.
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On June 09 2012 12:45 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:44 larse wrote:On June 09 2012 12:43 Elvin wrote:On June 09 2012 12:40 Xapti wrote:On June 09 2012 12:25 Plethora wrote:
well RIGHT NOW Siege tanks are scary units. With HotS that will change though. Call me stupid because I don't watch too much TvP, but terrans can death ball vs protoss or zerg with hellion-siegetank-thor (which will change to tank-hellion-warhound-thor). h ball. Siege tanks are by no means scary. I am not gonna call you stupid but there is no such thing as mech death ball vs protoss. Everyone now knows that tanks are dead in HOTS. I do hope that Ghosts get a buff, which could make Siege Tanks more viable since the Ghosts could shut down the Vipers, as well as sniping things like Banelings and Hydralisks.
Ghosts shut down vipers, since they are psionic and ALSO have energy, so they can be sniped or empd...
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Canada11132 Posts
On June 09 2012 12:44 Plethora wrote: Know what I'm deciding I dislike most about SC2 and all these new units are just hammering home? The lack of anything fun and microable...
I miss vultures, reaver & shuttle, muta micro, hell even marine vs lurker micro.
What are the most microable units in SC2? Reaper (nerfed to the point of being irrelevent) Banshees maybe? Blink Stalkers? Both have some fun micro tricks but nothing thats really going to make a crowd ooh and ahh. I think the coolest microing in SC2 is probably marine splitting vs banelings. That's one of the very few things you can watch a pro do and really just kinda marvel at sometimes. Aside from that, what is there? Well actually even banshees have very sluggish micro control compared to wraith micro. It's the fate of modern gaming really. Faster unit movement, but sluggish turn rate/ response time.
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On June 09 2012 12:36 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:32 eden-san wrote:On June 09 2012 12:00 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 11:58 eden-san wrote: And more importantly I do agree with people complaining about SC2 morphing into a WC3 kinda game with so many abilities around in each and every unit, kinda afraid that all those changes might entirely change the actual gameplay...
Brood gave the player a whole new set of units that required him to rethink his army comps and strategies without introducing any sort of game-breaking abilities, which allowed Blizzard to ensure that even if balance was broken only slight tweaks would be required to restore it. HotS gives us game-breaking abilities in almost every unit, the kind of abilities that can end games directly... Impossible to truly balance imo and completely stupid. It also seems to dumb down early game by giving every one ways to scare off the opponent (PF-like add-on for Nexus, burrowed swarm host means you need detection before entering Z's base, and T... Well T).
A few good changes still: - Hydras speed is greatly appreciated and not game breaking, merely renders them finally relevant end-game. - Ultras charge is cool without being overpowered.
- Versatile, anti-biological hellions and anti-armored warhounds will make mech T an actually viable option in every match-up imo. - Battlecruisers being buffed always is a welcomed change, even though a little underwhelming imo. I guess they made it to escape those widow mines LOLZ :D
- I actually find tempest to be an interesting unit that will add more depth to any engagement, will make positioning even more important (core mechanics of all Starcraft games).
Now for what I think sucks: - Mothership core doesn't add more depth to the strategy of the game, I actually think it diminishes it. - Oracle, from the video you can see how Z was pretty much denied most mining from a base thanks to that one Oracle, and then it got that vision spell (with no possibility to dispell?), and then the cloak... Jesus. - Tanks were already not used much vP, useless vZ end-game... What of it now? :D - Reaper healing, lulz, that suddenly make them so much more useful eh? I feel like they could remove the factory requirement on the speed upgrade now that queen range was buffed. - Swarm host and Vipers... Effectively making Z a slower caster race... Really Blizzard? Really?! lol, swarm host is fucking cool man. I don't know why you think it sucks, a siege breaker unit? Zerg has been yearning for a before broodlord type of unit. I love it. I still don't see how this is a siege breaker. Imagine today we get the swarm host, only role I'd find them would be to repel early pressure... After that the money spent on them is money you didn't spend on fast units for counter measures, so to me it is only a defensive unit for early pressure. You'd really need a lot of them to have any sort of impact as it is now, and in big engagements I'd rather have more hydras/ling/bling rather than that, because just like tanks they are very immobile and requires you to move step by step to be able to use them... Makes your supposedly fast overwhelming ground army suddenly a slow ass one. As for the overal feeling I got from it it feels like as if you could send waves of drones at the other guy without suffering any cost... Sure it's free, free food for collossi/tanks :D Viper/Hydra/Swarmhost looks very good in the preview PvZ game, though, combined with fast hive tech to assault the third/fourth of the Protoss. Remember the changes aren't final, either. Swarm host if clearly designed for pre-Hive strategies (there is no question that once you reach hive you should get broodlords if your aim is to break any sort of siege), so I really have no idea how they actually fit the the unit comps you can get before that.
Though I do agree it's kinda pointless to discuss details on the units, I just don't really feel the swarm host "fits" the style nor the needs (ultras' charge and hydras' speed do).
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On June 09 2012 12:52 TheBlueMeaner wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:45 Fencer710 wrote:On June 09 2012 12:44 larse wrote:On June 09 2012 12:43 Elvin wrote:On June 09 2012 12:40 Xapti wrote:On June 09 2012 12:25 Plethora wrote:
well RIGHT NOW Siege tanks are scary units. With HotS that will change though. Call me stupid because I don't watch too much TvP, but terrans can death ball vs protoss or zerg with hellion-siegetank-thor (which will change to tank-hellion-warhound-thor). h ball. Siege tanks are by no means scary. I am not gonna call you stupid but there is no such thing as mech death ball vs protoss. Everyone now knows that tanks are dead in HOTS. I do hope that Ghosts get a buff, which could make Siege Tanks more viable since the Ghosts could shut down the Vipers, as well as sniping things like Banelings and Hydralisks. Ghosts shut down vipers, since they are psionic and ALSO have energy, so they can be sniped or empd...
EMP'ing Air Units is lets call it funky. Very hard to target air-units with EMP and actually hit.
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when out of ideas look to BW is what I gathered
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Is there a terran match out there to watch???
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On June 09 2012 12:55 shadymmj wrote: when out of ideas look to BW is what I gathered
Isn't that what the community wants? I always here cries about making SC2 more like BW.
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On June 09 2012 12:55 bhfberserk wrote: Is there a terran match out there to watch???
There was a TvZ on the MLG main stream but don't bother it was depressing everything they showed looked awful and useless.
Seriously the Terran played Mech and just got obliterated without any chance of ever winning the game .
The actually interesting stuff was never shown sadly .
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One problem of viper is that it can extract energy from spines. And spines can move, so that basically means viper will never out of energy as long as zerg has some spines or spores following the main army.
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On June 09 2012 12:57 larse wrote: One problem of viper is that it can extract energy from spines. And spines can move, so that basically means viper will never out of energy as long as zerg has some spines or spores following the main army.
I dunno about "never out of energy". The ability takes away 200hp for 50energy, so realistically, you can only drain so much before letting your spines and spores regen all that health back.
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I know it's 2v2 and this not of high balance importance, but I wonder if unburrowed spines/spores have detection when an allied oracle casts preordaine on them. XD
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On June 09 2012 12:57 larse wrote: One problem of viper is that it can extract energy from spines. And spines can move, so that basically means viper will never out of energy as long as zerg has some spines or spores following the main army. Defilers could consume Zerglings for energy, so Viper consume is not entirely unprecedented. The spells can be balanced if needed.
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