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On June 09 2012 12:37 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:36 HeroMystic wrote: Also, serious question.
Can we all agree that Reaper in this build is worse than it currently is now? It heals pretty fast, the terran didn't get nitro packs for it so its slow but its understandable since its a show match. I would say it is a good harasser, would love to give it a go From what I saw, Nitro Packs weren't even an option. It got completely removed.
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On June 09 2012 12:37 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:36 HeroMystic wrote: Also, serious question.
Can we all agree that Reaper in this build is worse than it currently is now? It heals pretty fast, the terran didn't get nitro packs for it so its slow but its understandable since its a show match. I would say it is a good harasser, would love to give it a go
There is no Nitro Packs in the current build its replaced by the heal. Which would be worse than the current Reaper.
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On June 09 2012 12:37 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:25 Fencer710 wrote: Reapers also have 60 HP, which is great for both the early game and adding Reapers to a Terran late-game Bio composition as a gas dump in TvZ and TvP. Without Stim and no nitro packs i doubt that .
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They should make warhound a four-leg mech. Otherwise we have three two-leg robots in terran factory, battlehellion, warhound, thor, which look quite redundant in concept (not redundant in competitive gameplay). You know, a whole bunch of robot wondering around doesn't look starcraft.
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Oracle entomb delays up to 31 seconds? Basically reducing income by 50% if cast once per minute? -.-
And abduct, don't have to say much about how this ability pretty much ruins any type of positional play. Especially when you combine it with Consume, you pretty much always have it up.
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On June 09 2012 12:25 Plethora wrote: So as a terran player, heres my thing. When I'm playing against zerg, and the game is going along things happen, blah blah, then I see broodlords. Most of the time its "oh shit, gotta do something about that". There's just that little bit of fear, even if I'm ahead, even if I am successfully able to deal with them, its just kind of an intimidating unit.
Toss is a bit different in that its the deathball itself that's scary, but still, its there. There are times where, playing against a protoss I can be on even footing or even slightly ahead, and I scan and I see that army and just kinda groan because I know its gonna be incredibly hard to deal with. Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming its impossible, its just that slight fear that I think is ultimately good for the game.
What does terran have? What can I shoot for late game that's going to inspire that fear in my opponent. well RIGHT NOW Siege tanks are scary units. With HotS that will change though.
Call me stupid because I don't watch too much TvP, but terrans can death ball vs protoss or zerg with hellion-siegetank-thor (which will change to tank-hellion-warhound-thor). I know it's not the most common strategy (especially vs P), at least at the top level, but unless you're also top level that's probably not relevant. Note i'm not saying it's OP, but it takes specific preparation and tactics to deal with a terran death ball just like a protoss death ball.On June 09 2012 12:40 Nagano wrote: And abduct, don't have to say much about how this ability pretty much ruins any type of positional play. Especially when you combine it with Consume, you pretty much always have it up. Consume? is that a new ability for viper? works the same way as deflier's or what?
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On June 09 2012 12:38 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:36 HeroMystic wrote: Also, serious question.
Can we all agree that Reaper in this build is worse than it currently is now? I heavily disagree. In the game casted by Day9 and Rob Simpson you can see that a Reaper expand build can definitely be viable for early game harassment and possibly to contain creep, since they now have 60 HP and that 50/50 ability to heal out of combat. You can also bring them along with your mid-game push to kill off some more Zerglings.
You could to that a billion times better with speed instead of the Heal.
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On June 09 2012 12:38 HeroMystic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:37 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:36 HeroMystic wrote: Also, serious question.
Can we all agree that Reaper in this build is worse than it currently is now? It heals pretty fast, the terran didn't get nitro packs for it so its slow but its understandable since its a show match. I would say it is a good harasser, would love to give it a go From what I saw, Nitro Packs weren't even an option. It got completely removed. There is ^
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On June 09 2012 12:39 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:37 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:36 HeroMystic wrote: Also, serious question.
Can we all agree that Reaper in this build is worse than it currently is now? It heals pretty fast, the terran didn't get nitro packs for it so its slow but its understandable since its a show match. I would say it is a good harasser, would love to give it a go There is no Nitro Packs in the current build its replaced by the heal. Which would be worse than the current Reaper. It's worse for all-in's and late-game harassment where you have a lot of Medivacs, but it's better for late-game play where you don't really want your Reapers to go way ahead of your Bio army.
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In other news, M18M is probably very giddy about all these new Stargate units.
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They might've added it again but in the build with the showmatch there was no nitro packs available in the techlab . Not sure whats accurate though.
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On June 09 2012 12:40 Xapti wrote:well RIGHT NOW Siege tanks are scary units. With HotS that will change though. Call me stupid because I don't watch too much TvP, but terrans can death ball vs protoss or zerg with hellion-siegetank-thor (which will change to tank-hellion-warhound-thor). h ball.
Siege tanks are by no means scary.
I am not gonna call you stupid but there is no such thing as mech death ball vs protoss.
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On June 09 2012 12:42 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:39 s3rp wrote:On June 09 2012 12:37 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:36 HeroMystic wrote: Also, serious question.
Can we all agree that Reaper in this build is worse than it currently is now? It heals pretty fast, the terran didn't get nitro packs for it so its slow but its understandable since its a show match. I would say it is a good harasser, would love to give it a go There is no Nitro Packs in the current build its replaced by the heal. Which would be worse than the current Reaper. It's worse for all-in's and late-game harassment where you have a lot of Medivacs, but it's better for late-game play where you don't really want your Reapers to go way ahead of your Bio army.
Instead they fall behind the stimmed Bio ... I can manage Reapers running ahead before battles but them falling behind in battles would suck mightily.
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On June 09 2012 12:18 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:09 -Exalt- wrote:On June 09 2012 12:00 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 11:58 eden-san wrote: And more importantly I do agree with people complaining about SC2 morphing into a WC3 kinda game with so many abilities around in each and every unit, kinda afraid that all those changes might entirely change the actual gameplay...
Brood gave the player a whole new set of units that required him to rethink his army comps and strategies without introducing any sort of game-breaking abilities, which allowed Blizzard to ensure that even if balance was broken only slight tweaks would be required to restore it. HotS gives us game-breaking abilities in almost every unit, the kind of abilities that can end games directly... Impossible to truly balance imo and completely stupid. It also seems to dumb down early game by giving every one ways to scare off the opponent (PF-like add-on for Nexus, burrowed swarm host means you need detection before entering Z's base, and T... Well T).
A few good changes still: - Hydras speed is greatly appreciated and not game breaking, merely renders them finally relevant end-game. - Ultras charge is cool without being overpowered.
- Versatile, anti-biological hellions and anti-armored warhounds will make mech T an actually viable option in every match-up imo. - Battlecruisers being buffed always is a welcomed change, even though a little underwhelming imo. I guess they made it to escape those widow mines LOLZ :D
- I actually find tempest to be an interesting unit that will add more depth to any engagement, will make positioning even more important (core mechanics of all Starcraft games).
Now for what I think sucks: - Mothership core doesn't add more depth to the strategy of the game, I actually think it diminishes it. - Oracle, from the video you can see how Z was pretty much denied most mining from a base thanks to that one Oracle, and then it got that vision spell (with no possibility to dispell?), and then the cloak... Jesus. - Tanks were already not used much vP, useless vZ end-game... What of it now? :D - Reaper healing, lulz, that suddenly make them so much more useful eh? I feel like they could remove the factory requirement on the speed upgrade now that queen range was buffed. - Swarm host and Vipers... Effectively making Z a slower caster race... Really Blizzard? Really?! lol, swarm host is fucking cool man. I don't know why you think it sucks, a siege breaker unit? Zerg has been yearning for a before broodlord type of unit. I love it. mothership is required, game design wise, for protoss to deal with mass broodlord / infestor / corrupter/ queen for certain timings in end game PvZ (when you are just maxing out, before you have the econ to switch into carriers).. at this timing you can get a vortex to essentially save you from the massive brood lord timings.. if you can not get the vortex for that you will die. the best part is, once zergs reliably split their brood lords, it will not be a simple Vortex = win, it will be a vortex = reduced enough brood damage to allow him to survive. for people to be angry about the mothership staying, really shows a lack of game knowledge from the community or people are just ignorant. and about TvP, I've tested it against some high master friends on the HOTS custom map (was accurate for the last version of HOTS) and mech just destroys protoss. Any protoss unit composition can easily be recked by battlehellion/warhound/ghost/viking, and you can almost always be ahead of the protoss w/ this style due to how many hellions you have that can be dropped and kill massive amounts of probes.. mech is finally good against protoss and terrans are still complaining? wuuuuut? People are complaining because we care more about FUN, then EZ WIN. We miss the Mech style of BW with TANKS and SpiderMine VULTURES. Right now Blizzard has given us 1a Battle Hellions and 1a Warhounds. Both of which look silly, and boring to play.
no one is stopping you from using Tanks and Mines/ bf hellions with warhound/battle hellions.. terrans will never stop complaning I guess until blizzrd releases Starcraft 2: Broodwar which is just brood war with updated graphics.
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On June 09 2012 12:43 Elvin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:40 Xapti wrote:On June 09 2012 12:25 Plethora wrote:
well RIGHT NOW Siege tanks are scary units. With HotS that will change though. Call me stupid because I don't watch too much TvP, but terrans can death ball vs protoss or zerg with hellion-siegetank-thor (which will change to tank-hellion-warhound-thor). h ball. Siege tanks are by no means scary. I am not gonna call you stupid but there is no such thing as mech death ball vs protoss.
Everyone now knows that tanks are dead in HOTS.
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On June 09 2012 12:43 Elvin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:40 Xapti wrote:On June 09 2012 12:25 Plethora wrote:
well RIGHT NOW Siege tanks are scary units. With HotS that will change though. Call me stupid because I don't watch too much TvP, but terrans can death ball vs protoss or zerg with hellion-siegetank-thor (which will change to tank-hellion-warhound-thor). h ball. Siege tanks are by no means scary. I am not gonna call you stupid but there is no such thing as mech death ball vs protoss. There have been some 2-base pushes/all-in's where the Terran goes for Marine/Medivac/Siege Tank against the Protoss.
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On June 09 2012 12:42 s3rp wrote:They might've added it against but in the build with the showmatch there was no nitro packs available in the techlab . Not sure whats accurate though. Obviously, the showmatch build is older since they definitely pre-recorded it prior to MLG. Plus, didn't Day[9] visit Blizzard HQ to do some Diablo 3 interviews and stuff some time ago? I might need to check what clothes he was wearing, since perhaps the timing of the showmatch build might be that old.
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Know what I'm deciding I dislike most about SC2 and all these new units are just hammering home? The lack of anything fun and microable...
I miss vultures, reaver & shuttle, muta micro, hell even marine vs lurker micro.
What are the most microable units in SC2? Reaper (nerfed to the point of being irrelevent) Banshees maybe? Blink Stalkers? Both have some fun micro tricks but nothing thats really going to make a crowd ooh and ahh. I think the coolest microing in SC2 is probably marine splitting vs banelings. That's one of the very few things you can watch a pro do and really just kinda marvel at sometimes. Aside from that, what is there?
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On June 09 2012 12:44 larse wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:43 Elvin wrote:On June 09 2012 12:40 Xapti wrote:On June 09 2012 12:25 Plethora wrote:
well RIGHT NOW Siege tanks are scary units. With HotS that will change though. Call me stupid because I don't watch too much TvP, but terrans can death ball vs protoss or zerg with hellion-siegetank-thor (which will change to tank-hellion-warhound-thor). h ball. Siege tanks are by no means scary. I am not gonna call you stupid but there is no such thing as mech death ball vs protoss. Everyone now knows that tanks are dead in HOTS. I do hope that Ghosts get a buff, which could make Siege Tanks more viable since the Ghosts could shut down the Vipers, as well as sniping things like Banelings and Hydralisks.
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