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On June 09 2012 12:20 bucckevin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:00 HeroMystic wrote:On June 09 2012 11:56 Snoodles wrote:
The detonation time on mines should only be a couple seconds, at best, long enough for a pro to move them out of his ball if he's fast, but punishing if he's not. I mean, toss and zerg get storm and fungal and thermal lance and all that, and you have almost no time to react, but Terran AoE like siege and nukes, are completely avoidable and slow. I dunno. I'm actually not sure why people are complaining that the Willow mine sucks. Granted it was a showmatch, but they burrowed so fast and guaranteeing to kill a unit instantly is a good thing. Willow mines can also be reactored, which is a -huge- factor to take into account. The mines put a big bullseye on their target and then takes 10 whole seconds to detonate. In the battle report, the zerg just selects the one hydra and moved him away from his army. The one time it looked good, the zerg had no units, only queens and he just put all his queens next to each other to make it look cool. The mine can be so cost ineffective when the zerg just runs his lings in and then run the targetted one by the mine out of their army. I think mines do friendly fire damage once they attach too which means they can backfire on you if the enemy runs to your mineral line.
Are the mines autocast? If they aren't, you can simply target fire important units to the Zerg army while they're moving across the map. Imagine an Ling/Infestor/Ultra army walk across mines and you target the Infestors. That'd be pretty satisfying.
Obviously they're not free, so they're not nearly as good as spamming Spider Mines in BW. =/ But it's a good theoretical application to them.
EDIT: I do agree that the mine needs to explode sooner. 5 seconds at least.
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On June 09 2012 12:25 Kaw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:22 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:20 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:18 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:17 Xapti wrote:On June 09 2012 12:04 Doc Daneeka wrote:
i still think entomb and abduct are really dumb, contrived abilities. but i'm liking most of the rest of it. i especially like how they've decided to use the mothership. You're not using "contrived" in the right way, and "dumb" is really vague. I personally like both the abilities. Both of these abilities will make for much more active gameplay. Entomb is kinda crazy though, but I like how it works. I like the idea, most probably it will be balanced in Beta. I hate the idea. It is more of a macro mechanic than a form of harass. There is nothing exciting about flying into your opponents mineral line and back out once every 45 seconds. Its about as interesting as a zerg injecting larva. Well.. state of the game has talked about it before. Its more of a "pro" unit then a noob unit. Pros will love it, while noobs will hate it because it requires attention. :/ I'm not complaining that it is going to be difficult. I am complaining that there will be nothing interesting or skillful about using it. If you have the energy to cast entomb, then you fly into his mineral line and cast it. There is no decision to be made or strategy to be used. It is as difficult and as interesting as inject larva.
You have no idea how bad it is to freeze one whole mineral base do you? With that income lost, you basically just created a timing window for attack for yourself. Its fucking awesome.
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On June 09 2012 12:24 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:23 Esk23 wrote:On June 09 2012 12:20 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:19 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On June 09 2012 12:18 GinDo wrote:On June 09 2012 12:09 -Exalt- wrote:On June 09 2012 12:00 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 11:58 eden-san wrote:
And more importantly I do agree with people complaining about SC2 morphing into a WC3 kinda game with so many abilities around in each and every unit, kinda afraid that all those changes might entirely change the actual gameplay...
Brood gave the player a whole new set of units that required him to rethink his army comps and strategies without introducing any sort of game-breaking abilities, which allowed Blizzard to ensure that even if balance was broken only slight tweaks would be required to restore it.
HotS gives us game-breaking abilities in almost every unit, the kind of abilities that can end games directly... Impossible to truly balance imo and completely stupid. It also seems to dumb down early game by giving every one ways to scare off the opponent (PF-like add-on for Nexus, burrowed swarm host means you need detection before entering Z's base, and T... Well T).
A few good changes still:
- Hydras speed is greatly appreciated and not game breaking, merely renders them finally relevant end-game.
- Ultras charge is cool without being overpowered.
- Versatile, anti-biological hellions and anti-armored warhounds will make mech T an actually viable option in every match-up imo.
- Battlecruisers being buffed always is a welcomed change, even though a little underwhelming imo. I guess they made it to escape those widow mines LOLZ :D
- I actually find tempest to be an interesting unit that will add more depth to any engagement, will make positioning even more important (core mechanics of all Starcraft games).
Now for what I think sucks:
- Mothership core doesn't add more depth to the strategy of the game, I actually think it diminishes it.
- Oracle, from the video you can see how Z was pretty much denied most mining from a base thanks to that one Oracle, and then it got that vision spell (with no possibility to dispell?), and then the cloak... Jesus.
- Tanks were already not used much vP, useless vZ end-game... What of it now? :D
- Reaper healing, lulz, that suddenly make them so much more useful eh? I feel like they could remove the factory requirement on the speed upgrade now that queen range was buffed.
- Swarm host and Vipers... Effectively making Z a slower caster race... Really Blizzard? Really?! lol, swarm host is fucking cool man. I don't know why you think it sucks, a siege breaker unit? Zerg has been yearning for a before broodlord type of unit. I love it. mothership is required, game design wise, for protoss to deal with mass broodlord / infestor / corrupter/ queen for certain timings in end game PvZ (when you are just maxing out, before you have the econ to switch into carriers).. at this timing you can get a vortex to essentially save you from the massive brood lord timings.. if you can not get the vortex for that you will die. the best part is, once zergs reliably split their brood lords, it will not be a simple Vortex = win, it will be a vortex = reduced enough brood damage to allow him to survive. for people to be angry about the mothership staying, really shows a lack of game knowledge from the community or people are just ignorant. and about TvP, I've tested it against some high master friends on the HOTS custom map (was accurate for the last version of HOTS) and mech just destroys protoss. Any protoss unit composition can easily be recked by battlehellion/warhound/ghost/viking, and you can almost always be ahead of the protoss w/ this style due to how many hellions you have that can be dropped and kill massive amounts of probes.. mech is finally good against protoss and terrans are still complaining? wuuuuut? People are complaining because we care more about FUN, then EZ WIN. We miss the Mech style of BW with TANKS and SpiderMine VULTURES. Right now Blizzard has given us 1a Battle Hellions and 1a Warhounds. Both of which look silly, and boring to play. Yeah, because everyone has completely figured out how to use all the new units and abilities to their fullest potential, already. Raven would like to talk to you. What good are Ravens when they get fungled to death from a mile away. Such an expensive units, takes forever to get the energy for HSM and easily counter by infestors. So a zerg should spend 4 fungals on a raven rather then the bio force of a terran? I would say that's a good trade.
I guess you didn't realize I meant mech+ravens vs broodlord, corrupter, queen + infestors. Ravens counter broodlord/corrupter very well but with the infestors in there the ravens won't touch the zerg army. Once terrans start to use ravens more, zergs will just be sure to have infestors to deal with them easily.
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On June 09 2012 12:26 ntssauce wrote:
WHY IS TERRAN FORCED INTO MECH !? + that mech doesn't work!
Why aren't there new BIO options!? mech so boring.
To appease all the people who want to play mech 
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
Has the VOD for the TvZ footage been posted?
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On June 09 2012 12:24 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:20 Ballistixz wrote:On June 09 2012 12:17 s3rp wrote:On June 09 2012 12:15 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:12 s3rp wrote:On June 09 2012 12:09 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:08 L0thar wrote:On June 09 2012 12:04 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:00 L0thar wrote:On June 09 2012 11:52 ImNightmare wrote:
[quote]
Because it is, blizzard already said Wing's of liberty is a TERRAN'S GAME. You have the most units now. Of course you won't have 5 more units. And in case you didn't count, HoTs allows zerg to have the same amount of units as terran. What are you talking about? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Terran_Unitshttp://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Zerg_UnitsNot counting specials like Mule, Changeling etc, I see 13 units on both sides. Yeah, I counted them, did you? marine,maruder,reaper, ghost, medivac, BC, thor, hellions, raven, banshee, tank, viking. = 12 Queen, lings, baneling, roach, hydra, ultralisk, infestor, corruptor, broodlord, mutalisk= 10. You sure you counted them? Aside from workers, you missed overlords and overseers. They are units too, you know? Not every unit can be a swiss army knife like queen or infestor. LOL, okay, then lets count your depot as units too. Of course, only the marine can. THose Depots sure can transport my units... Overlords count as Units fact. Fine, Command Centers can move and transport units so they should count too. The feared 5 SCV drop .. ( with upgrade for bunkerspace its 8 !!!!!!!!!!! ) planetary fortress. How is that a more a unit than a Overlord ? Its a static defensive building because you can't have enough supply to defend every base you have with bunker while still having enough potential to be aggressive.
its to prove a point on how ridiculous the argument is.
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On June 09 2012 12:26 ntssauce wrote:
WHY IS TERRAN FORCED INTO MECH !? + that mech doesn't work!
Why aren't there new BIO options!? mech so boring.
Because Terran's are complaining mech doesn't work? So blizzard tries to make mech work? I swear you can't make everyone happy man
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On June 09 2012 12:15 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:14 L0thar wrote:On June 09 2012 12:09 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:08 L0thar wrote:On June 09 2012 12:04 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:00 L0thar wrote:On June 09 2012 11:52 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 11:50 L0thar wrote:On June 09 2012 11:47 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 11:46 L0thar wrote:
....aaand the TvZ battlereport only supported my previous view that Terrans are getting shafted in HoTS. They are getting the weakest (which could be balanced) and most boring (which sadly couldn't) additions from all races.
But the one mine detonation was kinda funny, I'll give you that. Too bad other things were rather cryworthy.
Because its a zerg expansion? Like WoL is a terrans game? I hope you do realise you have more units then zerg or protoss currently right? WoL's not Terran game, where the fuck that sentinent comes from? It's singleplayer is T centered, just as HotS will be Z centered. Multiplayer experience should be equally balanced and fun for all races, otherwise Blizz is failing big time. Because it is, blizzard already said Wing's of liberty is a TERRAN'S GAME. You have the most units now. Of course you won't have 5 more units. And in case you didn't count, HoTs allows zerg to have the same amount of units as terran. What are you talking about? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Terran_Unitshttp://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Zerg_UnitsNot counting specials like Mule, Changeling etc, I see 13 units on both sides. Yeah, I counted them, did you? marine,maruder,reaper, ghost, medivac, BC, thor, hellions, raven, banshee, tank, viking. = 12 Queen, lings, baneling, roach, hydra, ultralisk, infestor, corruptor, broodlord, mutalisk= 10. You sure you counted them? Aside from workers, you missed overlords and overseers. They are units too, you know? Not every unit can be a swiss army knife like queen or infestor. LOL, okay, then lets count your depot as units too. Of course, only the marine can. Sure, when my depots starts flying around providing almost free scouting, carrying my units and baneling bomb things underneath them. Until then, no, but good try. Barracks, factory, starport, CC. Terran flying building with more HP then a overlord AND can produce units oh and they move faster then a overlord. what do you know! And they benefit from the buidling armor. Until then, no ,but good try. Give it up bro, you are struggling to make yourself right.
Your "until then" comment made no sense here, bad try this time.
And from all races zerg should shut up the most when it comes to counting building as units, with their supply free, low mineral costing, moveable spine and spore clawer. You dug your own grave here.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51709 Posts
its funny if I used a tempest on steppes of war I'm pretty sure I could shoot from my natural to my enemy's natural lol.
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On June 09 2012 12:27 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:24 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:23 Esk23 wrote:On June 09 2012 12:20 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:19 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On June 09 2012 12:18 GinDo wrote:On June 09 2012 12:09 -Exalt- wrote:On June 09 2012 12:00 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 11:58 eden-san wrote:
And more importantly I do agree with people complaining about SC2 morphing into a WC3 kinda game with so many abilities around in each and every unit, kinda afraid that all those changes might entirely change the actual gameplay...
Brood gave the player a whole new set of units that required him to rethink his army comps and strategies without introducing any sort of game-breaking abilities, which allowed Blizzard to ensure that even if balance was broken only slight tweaks would be required to restore it.
HotS gives us game-breaking abilities in almost every unit, the kind of abilities that can end games directly... Impossible to truly balance imo and completely stupid. It also seems to dumb down early game by giving every one ways to scare off the opponent (PF-like add-on for Nexus, burrowed swarm host means you need detection before entering Z's base, and T... Well T).
A few good changes still:
- Hydras speed is greatly appreciated and not game breaking, merely renders them finally relevant end-game.
- Ultras charge is cool without being overpowered.
- Versatile, anti-biological hellions and anti-armored warhounds will make mech T an actually viable option in every match-up imo.
- Battlecruisers being buffed always is a welcomed change, even though a little underwhelming imo. I guess they made it to escape those widow mines LOLZ :D
- I actually find tempest to be an interesting unit that will add more depth to any engagement, will make positioning even more important (core mechanics of all Starcraft games).
Now for what I think sucks:
- Mothership core doesn't add more depth to the strategy of the game, I actually think it diminishes it.
- Oracle, from the video you can see how Z was pretty much denied most mining from a base thanks to that one Oracle, and then it got that vision spell (with no possibility to dispell?), and then the cloak... Jesus.
- Tanks were already not used much vP, useless vZ end-game... What of it now? :D
- Reaper healing, lulz, that suddenly make them so much more useful eh? I feel like they could remove the factory requirement on the speed upgrade now that queen range was buffed.
- Swarm host and Vipers... Effectively making Z a slower caster race... Really Blizzard? Really?! lol, swarm host is fucking cool man. I don't know why you think it sucks, a siege breaker unit? Zerg has been yearning for a before broodlord type of unit. I love it. mothership is required, game design wise, for protoss to deal with mass broodlord / infestor / corrupter/ queen for certain timings in end game PvZ (when you are just maxing out, before you have the econ to switch into carriers).. at this timing you can get a vortex to essentially save you from the massive brood lord timings.. if you can not get the vortex for that you will die. the best part is, once zergs reliably split their brood lords, it will not be a simple Vortex = win, it will be a vortex = reduced enough brood damage to allow him to survive. for people to be angry about the mothership staying, really shows a lack of game knowledge from the community or people are just ignorant. and about TvP, I've tested it against some high master friends on the HOTS custom map (was accurate for the last version of HOTS) and mech just destroys protoss. Any protoss unit composition can easily be recked by battlehellion/warhound/ghost/viking, and you can almost always be ahead of the protoss w/ this style due to how many hellions you have that can be dropped and kill massive amounts of probes.. mech is finally good against protoss and terrans are still complaining? wuuuuut? People are complaining because we care more about FUN, then EZ WIN. We miss the Mech style of BW with TANKS and SpiderMine VULTURES. Right now Blizzard has given us 1a Battle Hellions and 1a Warhounds. Both of which look silly, and boring to play. Yeah, because everyone has completely figured out how to use all the new units and abilities to their fullest potential, already. Raven would like to talk to you. What good are Ravens when they get fungled to death from a mile away. Such an expensive units, takes forever to get the energy for HSM and easily counter by infestors. So a zerg should spend 4 fungals on a raven rather then the bio force of a terran? I would say that's a good trade. I guess you didn't realize I meant mech+ravens vs broodlord, corrupter, queen + infestors. Ravens counter broodlord/corrupter very well but with the infestors in there the ravens won't touch the zerg army. Once terrans start to use ravens more, zergs will just be sure to have infestors to deal with them easily.
Ravens don't even have to touch the zerg army. if we were to use your late game scenario, pdd shuts down corrupters and vikings fuck the broodlords. maybe you think it doesn't work, but pro terrans have been using the ravens recently, just watch MLG bro.
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On June 09 2012 12:27 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:25 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:22 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:20 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:18 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:17 Xapti wrote:On June 09 2012 12:04 Doc Daneeka wrote:
i still think entomb and abduct are really dumb, contrived abilities. but i'm liking most of the rest of it. i especially like how they've decided to use the mothership. You're not using "contrived" in the right way, and "dumb" is really vague. I personally like both the abilities. Both of these abilities will make for much more active gameplay. Entomb is kinda crazy though, but I like how it works. I like the idea, most probably it will be balanced in Beta. I hate the idea. It is more of a macro mechanic than a form of harass. There is nothing exciting about flying into your opponents mineral line and back out once every 45 seconds. Its about as interesting as a zerg injecting larva. Well.. state of the game has talked about it before. Its more of a "pro" unit then a noob unit. Pros will love it, while noobs will hate it because it requires attention. :/ I'm not complaining that it is going to be difficult. I am complaining that there will be nothing interesting or skillful about using it. If you have the energy to cast entomb, then you fly into his mineral line and cast it. There is no decision to be made or strategy to be used. It is as difficult and as interesting as inject larva. You have no idea how bad it is to freeze one whole mineral base do you? With that income lost, you basically just created a timing window for attack for yourself. Its fucking awesome.
Yeah it's fcking awesome. Other races actually gotta micro and put some work into harassing the enemies ecomony while Toss gets to easily click a button to lock down an entire mining base and then fly away. lololol I don't know why Blizzard likes making Protoss easy and easier to play. Should give Toss units that actually take some micro to use and not just A+move across the map and win.
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On June 09 2012 12:25 Plethora wrote:
So as a terran player, heres my thing. When I'm playing against zerg, and the game is going along things happen, blah blah, then I see broodlords. Most of the time its "oh shit, gotta do something about that". There's just that little bit of fear, even if I'm ahead, even if I am successfully able to deal with them, its just kind of an intimidating unit.
Toss is a bit different in that its the deathball itself that's scary, but still, its there. There are times where, playing against a protoss I can be on even footing or even slightly ahead, and I scan and I see that army and just kinda groan because I know its gonna be incredibly hard to deal with. Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming its impossible, its just that slight fear that I think is ultimately good for the game.
What does terran have? What can I shoot for late game that's going to inspire that fear in my opponent. What do I get to cement a lead when I have one in the late game? All I see them doing with Terran in HotS is fiddling around with the early and midgame. I'm not saying there aren't some good things in there, but they aren't addressing the real issue with T, which is a lack of any real lategame options. I mean, maybe they are really going to try to make BCs a consistent factor in competative play. If so, then great, I'll take it, but I feel like its gonna need more than a casted short term speed boost for that to happen...
Pro speed boost BC micro.............. I think just race switching will be better.
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On June 09 2012 12:27 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:25 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:22 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:20 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:18 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:17 Xapti wrote:On June 09 2012 12:04 Doc Daneeka wrote:
i still think entomb and abduct are really dumb, contrived abilities. but i'm liking most of the rest of it. i especially like how they've decided to use the mothership. You're not using "contrived" in the right way, and "dumb" is really vague. I personally like both the abilities. Both of these abilities will make for much more active gameplay. Entomb is kinda crazy though, but I like how it works. I like the idea, most probably it will be balanced in Beta. I hate the idea. It is more of a macro mechanic than a form of harass. There is nothing exciting about flying into your opponents mineral line and back out once every 45 seconds. Its about as interesting as a zerg injecting larva. Well.. state of the game has talked about it before. Its more of a "pro" unit then a noob unit. Pros will love it, while noobs will hate it because it requires attention. :/ I'm not complaining that it is going to be difficult. I am complaining that there will be nothing interesting or skillful about using it. If you have the energy to cast entomb, then you fly into his mineral line and cast it. There is no decision to be made or strategy to be used. It is as difficult and as interesting as inject larva. You have no idea how bad it is to freeze one whole mineral base do you? With that income lost, you basically just created a timing window for attack for yourself. Its fucking awesome.
I'm also not saying it isn't good. I'm saying that as it stands now it works the same way as inject larva which is stupid for players and is stupid for spectators. Look at the battle report. What can you say about that harass besides "He is spending his energy as well as any player above platinum is expected to."
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On June 09 2012 12:27 MCDayC wrote:
Has the VOD for the TvZ footage been posted?
I don't think so. I'm waiting for it too, the MLG stream is too laggy.
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On June 09 2012 12:27 L0thar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:15 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:14 L0thar wrote:On June 09 2012 12:09 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:08 L0thar wrote:On June 09 2012 12:04 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:00 L0thar wrote:On June 09 2012 11:52 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 11:50 L0thar wrote:On June 09 2012 11:47 ImNightmare wrote:
[quote]
Because its a zerg expansion? Like WoL is a terrans game? I hope you do realise you have more units then zerg or protoss currently right? WoL's not Terran game, where the fuck that sentinent comes from? It's singleplayer is T centered, just as HotS will be Z centered. Multiplayer experience should be equally balanced and fun for all races, otherwise Blizz is failing big time. Because it is, blizzard already said Wing's of liberty is a TERRAN'S GAME. You have the most units now. Of course you won't have 5 more units. And in case you didn't count, HoTs allows zerg to have the same amount of units as terran. What are you talking about? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Terran_Unitshttp://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Zerg_UnitsNot counting specials like Mule, Changeling etc, I see 13 units on both sides. Yeah, I counted them, did you? marine,maruder,reaper, ghost, medivac, BC, thor, hellions, raven, banshee, tank, viking. = 12 Queen, lings, baneling, roach, hydra, ultralisk, infestor, corruptor, broodlord, mutalisk= 10. You sure you counted them? Aside from workers, you missed overlords and overseers. They are units too, you know? Not every unit can be a swiss army knife like queen or infestor. LOL, okay, then lets count your depot as units too. Of course, only the marine can. Sure, when my depots starts flying around providing almost free scouting, carrying my units and baneling bomb things underneath them. Until then, no, but good try. Barracks, factory, starport, CC. Terran flying building with more HP then a overlord AND can produce units oh and they move faster then a overlord. what do you know! And they benefit from the buidling armor. Until then, no ,but good try. Give it up bro, you are struggling to make yourself right. Your "until then" comment made no sense here, bad try this time. And from all races zerg should shut up the most when it comes to counting building as units, with their supply free, low mineral costing, moveable spine and spore clawer. You dug your own grave here.
Yeah.. I think i did. Sigh, spine crawler rush always wins me games. You caught me. I wish though it can be build behind mineral lines where workers can't touch it and I can salvage it for 75% of my income back. oh wait...
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On June 09 2012 12:30 Kaw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:27 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:25 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:22 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:20 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:18 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:17 Xapti wrote:On June 09 2012 12:04 Doc Daneeka wrote:
i still think entomb and abduct are really dumb, contrived abilities. but i'm liking most of the rest of it. i especially like how they've decided to use the mothership. You're not using "contrived" in the right way, and "dumb" is really vague. I personally like both the abilities. Both of these abilities will make for much more active gameplay. Entomb is kinda crazy though, but I like how it works. I like the idea, most probably it will be balanced in Beta. I hate the idea. It is more of a macro mechanic than a form of harass. There is nothing exciting about flying into your opponents mineral line and back out once every 45 seconds. Its about as interesting as a zerg injecting larva. Well.. state of the game has talked about it before. Its more of a "pro" unit then a noob unit. Pros will love it, while noobs will hate it because it requires attention. :/ I'm not complaining that it is going to be difficult. I am complaining that there will be nothing interesting or skillful about using it. If you have the energy to cast entomb, then you fly into his mineral line and cast it. There is no decision to be made or strategy to be used. It is as difficult and as interesting as inject larva. You have no idea how bad it is to freeze one whole mineral base do you? With that income lost, you basically just created a timing window for attack for yourself. Its fucking awesome. I'm also not saying it isn't good. I'm saying that as it stands now it works the same way as inject larva which is stupid for players and is stupid for spectators. Look at the battle report. What can you say about that harass besides "He is spending his energy as well as any player above platinum is expected to."
The toss won dude.. and by cutting income , you are cutting units. Pretty good trade IMO.
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On June 09 2012 12:29 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:27 Esk23 wrote:On June 09 2012 12:24 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:23 Esk23 wrote:On June 09 2012 12:20 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:19 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On June 09 2012 12:18 GinDo wrote:On June 09 2012 12:09 -Exalt- wrote:On June 09 2012 12:00 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 11:58 eden-san wrote:
And more importantly I do agree with people complaining about SC2 morphing into a WC3 kinda game with so many abilities around in each and every unit, kinda afraid that all those changes might entirely change the actual gameplay...
Brood gave the player a whole new set of units that required him to rethink his army comps and strategies without introducing any sort of game-breaking abilities, which allowed Blizzard to ensure that even if balance was broken only slight tweaks would be required to restore it.
HotS gives us game-breaking abilities in almost every unit, the kind of abilities that can end games directly... Impossible to truly balance imo and completely stupid. It also seems to dumb down early game by giving every one ways to scare off the opponent (PF-like add-on for Nexus, burrowed swarm host means you need detection before entering Z's base, and T... Well T).
A few good changes still:
- Hydras speed is greatly appreciated and not game breaking, merely renders them finally relevant end-game.
- Ultras charge is cool without being overpowered.
- Versatile, anti-biological hellions and anti-armored warhounds will make mech T an actually viable option in every match-up imo.
- Battlecruisers being buffed always is a welcomed change, even though a little underwhelming imo. I guess they made it to escape those widow mines LOLZ :D
- I actually find tempest to be an interesting unit that will add more depth to any engagement, will make positioning even more important (core mechanics of all Starcraft games).
Now for what I think sucks:
- Mothership core doesn't add more depth to the strategy of the game, I actually think it diminishes it.
- Oracle, from the video you can see how Z was pretty much denied most mining from a base thanks to that one Oracle, and then it got that vision spell (with no possibility to dispell?), and then the cloak... Jesus.
- Tanks were already not used much vP, useless vZ end-game... What of it now? :D
- Reaper healing, lulz, that suddenly make them so much more useful eh? I feel like they could remove the factory requirement on the speed upgrade now that queen range was buffed.
- Swarm host and Vipers... Effectively making Z a slower caster race... Really Blizzard? Really?! lol, swarm host is fucking cool man. I don't know why you think it sucks, a siege breaker unit? Zerg has been yearning for a before broodlord type of unit. I love it. mothership is required, game design wise, for protoss to deal with mass broodlord / infestor / corrupter/ queen for certain timings in end game PvZ (when you are just maxing out, before you have the econ to switch into carriers).. at this timing you can get a vortex to essentially save you from the massive brood lord timings.. if you can not get the vortex for that you will die. the best part is, once zergs reliably split their brood lords, it will not be a simple Vortex = win, it will be a vortex = reduced enough brood damage to allow him to survive. for people to be angry about the mothership staying, really shows a lack of game knowledge from the community or people are just ignorant. and about TvP, I've tested it against some high master friends on the HOTS custom map (was accurate for the last version of HOTS) and mech just destroys protoss. Any protoss unit composition can easily be recked by battlehellion/warhound/ghost/viking, and you can almost always be ahead of the protoss w/ this style due to how many hellions you have that can be dropped and kill massive amounts of probes.. mech is finally good against protoss and terrans are still complaining? wuuuuut? People are complaining because we care more about FUN, then EZ WIN. We miss the Mech style of BW with TANKS and SpiderMine VULTURES. Right now Blizzard has given us 1a Battle Hellions and 1a Warhounds. Both of which look silly, and boring to play. Yeah, because everyone has completely figured out how to use all the new units and abilities to their fullest potential, already. Raven would like to talk to you. What good are Ravens when they get fungled to death from a mile away. Such an expensive units, takes forever to get the energy for HSM and easily counter by infestors. So a zerg should spend 4 fungals on a raven rather then the bio force of a terran? I would say that's a good trade. I guess you didn't realize I meant mech+ravens vs broodlord, corrupter, queen + infestors. Ravens counter broodlord/corrupter very well but with the infestors in there the ravens won't touch the zerg army. Once terrans start to use ravens more, zergs will just be sure to have infestors to deal with them easily. Ravens don't even have to touch the zerg army. if we were to use your late game scenario, pdd shuts down corrupters and vikings fuck the broodlords. maybe you think it doesn't work, but pro terrans have been using the ravens recently, just watch MLG bro.
I am and nobody build a single Raven yet :O
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On June 09 2012 12:29 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:27 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:25 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:22 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:20 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 12:18 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:17 Xapti wrote:On June 09 2012 12:04 Doc Daneeka wrote:
i still think entomb and abduct are really dumb, contrived abilities. but i'm liking most of the rest of it. i especially like how they've decided to use the mothership. You're not using "contrived" in the right way, and "dumb" is really vague. I personally like both the abilities. Both of these abilities will make for much more active gameplay. Entomb is kinda crazy though, but I like how it works. I like the idea, most probably it will be balanced in Beta. I hate the idea. It is more of a macro mechanic than a form of harass. There is nothing exciting about flying into your opponents mineral line and back out once every 45 seconds. Its about as interesting as a zerg injecting larva. Well.. state of the game has talked about it before. Its more of a "pro" unit then a noob unit. Pros will love it, while noobs will hate it because it requires attention. :/ I'm not complaining that it is going to be difficult. I am complaining that there will be nothing interesting or skillful about using it. If you have the energy to cast entomb, then you fly into his mineral line and cast it. There is no decision to be made or strategy to be used. It is as difficult and as interesting as inject larva. You have no idea how bad it is to freeze one whole mineral base do you? With that income lost, you basically just created a timing window for attack for yourself. Its fucking awesome. Yeah it's fcking awesome. Other races actually gotta micro and put some work into harassing the enemies ecomony while Toss gets to easily click a button to lock down an entire mining base and then fly away. lololol I don't know why Blizzard likes making Protoss easy and easier to play. Should give Toss units that actually take some micro to use and not just A+move across the map and win.
Woah... I play zerg dude, please don't take it out on me.
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On June 09 2012 12:29 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:27 Esk23 wrote:On June 09 2012 12:24 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:23 Esk23 wrote:On June 09 2012 12:20 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 12:19 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On June 09 2012 12:18 GinDo wrote:On June 09 2012 12:09 -Exalt- wrote:On June 09 2012 12:00 ImNightmare wrote:On June 09 2012 11:58 eden-san wrote:
And more importantly I do agree with people complaining about SC2 morphing into a WC3 kinda game with so many abilities around in each and every unit, kinda afraid that all those changes might entirely change the actual gameplay...
Brood gave the player a whole new set of units that required him to rethink his army comps and strategies without introducing any sort of game-breaking abilities, which allowed Blizzard to ensure that even if balance was broken only slight tweaks would be required to restore it.
HotS gives us game-breaking abilities in almost every unit, the kind of abilities that can end games directly... Impossible to truly balance imo and completely stupid. It also seems to dumb down early game by giving every one ways to scare off the opponent (PF-like add-on for Nexus, burrowed swarm host means you need detection before entering Z's base, and T... Well T).
A few good changes still:
- Hydras speed is greatly appreciated and not game breaking, merely renders them finally relevant end-game.
- Ultras charge is cool without being overpowered.
- Versatile, anti-biological hellions and anti-armored warhounds will make mech T an actually viable option in every match-up imo.
- Battlecruisers being buffed always is a welcomed change, even though a little underwhelming imo. I guess they made it to escape those widow mines LOLZ :D
- I actually find tempest to be an interesting unit that will add more depth to any engagement, will make positioning even more important (core mechanics of all Starcraft games).
Now for what I think sucks:
- Mothership core doesn't add more depth to the strategy of the game, I actually think it diminishes it.
- Oracle, from the video you can see how Z was pretty much denied most mining from a base thanks to that one Oracle, and then it got that vision spell (with no possibility to dispell?), and then the cloak... Jesus.
- Tanks were already not used much vP, useless vZ end-game... What of it now? :D
- Reaper healing, lulz, that suddenly make them so much more useful eh? I feel like they could remove the factory requirement on the speed upgrade now that queen range was buffed.
- Swarm host and Vipers... Effectively making Z a slower caster race... Really Blizzard? Really?! lol, swarm host is fucking cool man. I don't know why you think it sucks, a siege breaker unit? Zerg has been yearning for a before broodlord type of unit. I love it. mothership is required, game design wise, for protoss to deal with mass broodlord / infestor / corrupter/ queen for certain timings in end game PvZ (when you are just maxing out, before you have the econ to switch into carriers).. at this timing you can get a vortex to essentially save you from the massive brood lord timings.. if you can not get the vortex for that you will die. the best part is, once zergs reliably split their brood lords, it will not be a simple Vortex = win, it will be a vortex = reduced enough brood damage to allow him to survive. for people to be angry about the mothership staying, really shows a lack of game knowledge from the community or people are just ignorant. and about TvP, I've tested it against some high master friends on the HOTS custom map (was accurate for the last version of HOTS) and mech just destroys protoss. Any protoss unit composition can easily be recked by battlehellion/warhound/ghost/viking, and you can almost always be ahead of the protoss w/ this style due to how many hellions you have that can be dropped and kill massive amounts of probes.. mech is finally good against protoss and terrans are still complaining? wuuuuut? People are complaining because we care more about FUN, then EZ WIN. We miss the Mech style of BW with TANKS and SpiderMine VULTURES. Right now Blizzard has given us 1a Battle Hellions and 1a Warhounds. Both of which look silly, and boring to play. Yeah, because everyone has completely figured out how to use all the new units and abilities to their fullest potential, already. Raven would like to talk to you. What good are Ravens when they get fungled to death from a mile away. Such an expensive units, takes forever to get the energy for HSM and easily counter by infestors. So a zerg should spend 4 fungals on a raven rather then the bio force of a terran? I would say that's a good trade. I guess you didn't realize I meant mech+ravens vs broodlord, corrupter, queen + infestors. Ravens counter broodlord/corrupter very well but with the infestors in there the ravens won't touch the zerg army. Once terrans start to use ravens more, zergs will just be sure to have infestors to deal with them easily. Ravens don't even have to touch the zerg army. if we were to use your late game scenario, pdd shuts down corrupters and vikings fuck the broodlords. maybe you think it doesn't work, but pro terrans have been using the ravens recently, just watch MLG bro.
No they haven't. With what you just said, apparently it's you who needs to watch more, play more and learn sc2 more lol no offense intended. In late game situations there are typcially so many corrupters that PDD really isn't too effective, they run out of energy extremely fast. Fungle owns vikings+ravens and the only reason Terran gets ravens in the first place in that late game situation is to kill the Broodlord/corrupter army with HSM. But fungle>HSM range.
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On June 09 2012 12:27 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:26 ntssauce wrote:
WHY IS TERRAN FORCED INTO MECH !? + that mech doesn't work!
Why aren't there new BIO options!? mech so boring. Because Terran's are complaining mech doesn't work? So blizzard tries to make mech work? I swear you can't make everyone happy man
BUT I WANT A BLASTOISE!
... Bio doesn't really work against protoss either. so they should fix that too with a new unit .. i think you shouldn't focus only on mech.
Zerg gets spellcaster and siege unit and upgrades to old ones :/ !
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EPT
