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"Death is with me every second of the day! My every moment is spent in either dealing out death or worshiping it! So tell me, who under the stars is better suited than I to be Death's consort?" -- Thanos, Infinity Gauntlet Series.
I'm not a religious woman, so thinking about death is something that seems particularly grim. Unfortunately, it is a topic that has been on my mind far too much lately. The absolute certainty of death for humans seems like it would wreck motivation for anything--if you're going to face oblivion inevitably, what is the point in effort in any actions?
Perhaps humans simply ignore it as much as possible in order to allow other motivations to occupy their mind. Perhaps we simply allow primal instincts to take over our sub-conscious mind, so we became similar to a rat in search of food and a mate before its tiny heart stops beating. Or perhaps humans simply need to game themselves into some belief of maintaining consciousness or semblance of their living form in an 'after-life' of any form (be it a heavenly dimension, or the eternal slumber undreaming some believe in) in order to hold themselves from insanity.
I think my love of astronomy and astrophysics has really hurt my ability to keep mind with other people. The further I get into knowledge of the cosmic forces that have shaped this universe, the more I realize a sad truth that very few people seem to be willing to swallow down and accept. The meaning of life has been apparent from the start; There is no special meaning to life. Life itself is just a part of the materials that make up everything in the universe, with some special attributes. Life enjoys energy, and it has structured itself in ways to best further its chances of having energy pass through it, converting energy, and harvesting energy from sources. Other than that, we're simply products of chemicals.
The three most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen, Oxygen and Helium. Hydrogen and Oxygen are the two major parts of the human body, and indeed life "as we know it" (I'll get back to this phrase.) We're just a certain combination of those elements. A combination that enjoys energy. So we're not special in the chemical department. Somewhat unique from our knowledge so far, maybe... But not something too extraordinary.
It's a fair jump to consider from there how many star systems there are in the Milky Way galaxy, ~300 billion, and consider that even if each had an average planetary system composed of just two planets, that's a LOT of dice rolls for life--a dice roll that very likely has been hit more than once in our own planetary system, with the high chance of aquatic lifeforms on Europa, and Mars and Venus both previously having had possible temperate environments for life. It's dumbfounding to even consider that life is unique to our system--let alone even rare in our galaxy, or the universe. Once again, we're common, much like stars and nebulae, much like the other forms of these plentiful materials.
So we spend our time trying to figure out some real meaning to life. We sit around trying to figure out our preexisting divinity within the universe, to make meaning of our time before death. Yet, there is none. We are no more special than Hydrogen in Jupiter, or the Iron being fused in some star about to explode. This comes into the search for "life as we know it," which always conjures up ideas to me of sentience not being so much a gift, as an oddly cruel penalty--it tricks us into spending time trying to find extra purpose and not focusing on how we truly fit into the universe, as just another rock.
With these thoughts in mind, I'm still at an inner conflict. On one hand, I long for the day I stop being an energy converter occupying time pondering the intricacies of what "is" and simply "be" along with all the other elements. On the other hand, I am absolutely terrified of the prospect of life extinguished. Fear of the unknown, fear of losing the joys that exist with experiencing the universe--probably the most special thing about life, is that it's capable of appreciating the universe itself. Fear of losing the love of my boyfriend--an ironic fear, considering the emotional considerations of a corpse, yet perhaps more of a fear of causing him pain from my own departure?
Then I think forward to ideas of eternal--at least until the universe tears itself apart or something--life, and how the human conscious as it currently exists could deal with such time on its hands. Such life could almost surely only continue as an imprint of personality and conscious itself within a memory cell... a computer or something similar. This is an idea that always tickles me, for it comes with obvious boons, but also extreme penalties--such as the Universe becoming an incredibly boring place after the age of stars. Would it be worth it, though?
Maybe. I'd give it a shot. There's just too many cool things that life won't exist long enough to experience in this universe.
  
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On May 24 2012 02:59 Alay wrote:
We are no more special than Hydrogen in Jupiter, or the Iron being fused in some star about to explode. This comes into the search for "life as we know it," which always conjures up ideas to me of sentience not being so much a gift, as an oddly cruel penalty--it tricks us into spending time trying to find extra purpose and not focusing on how we truly fit into the universe, as just another rock.
It seems to me like you're contradicting yourself. If we are no more special then the hydrogen in Jupiter then how can we have sentience? If you admit to the fact that sentience is a real thing then you must therefore concede that the combination of elements within us is somehow more special then the combination of hydrogens in Jupiter (which as far as we know is not sentient and does not spend time on searching for "life as we know it.") And if we are somehow special then why not embrace that fact. You'll have plenty of time to be hydrogen (if that's what you really want to be) but you have very little time to be human. I'd say just enjoy it.
P.S. If studying astrophysics has given you a case of the nihilisms you should try quantum biology. I have never been as happy as when I realized I could control the superposition of electrons with my mind!
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Since you're already pretty knowledgeable about Astrophysics, let me confuse your mind even further. The universe is believed to be always expanding, due to the things known as dark matter and dark energy which I don't understand. While energy/matter expands and spreads out, entropy is always increasing until eventually it reaches a state of infinite entropy and the entire universe is reduced to a state of complete, utter nothingness. There's no way to stop this, although this won't matter because humans will probably go extinct within a few million years (most likely even earlier), and the sun will become a red giant and swallow the planet up in about 5 billion years.. What else is there....
In summary: we're doomed.
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On May 24 2012 04:12 Heh_ wrote:
Since you're already pretty knowledgeable about Astrophysics, let me confuse your mind even further. The universe is believed to be always expanding, due to the things known as dark matter and dark energy which I don't understand. While energy/matter expands and spreads out, entropy is always increasing until eventually it reaches a state of infinite entropy and the entire universe is reduced to a state of complete, utter nothingness. There's no way to stop this, although this won't matter because humans will probably go extinct within a few million years (most likely even earlier), and the sun will become a red giant and swallow the planet up in about 5 billion years.. What else is there....
In summary: we're doomed.
And all starlight will have likely burned out by that point, so the ultimate state of matter is one that will happen likely devoid of almost all energy left from the original creation.
On May 24 2012 03:46 FryBender wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 02:59 Alay wrote:
We are no more special than Hydrogen in Jupiter, or the Iron being fused in some star about to explode. This comes into the search for "life as we know it," which always conjures up ideas to me of sentience not being so much a gift, as an oddly cruel penalty--it tricks us into spending time trying to find extra purpose and not focusing on how we truly fit into the universe, as just another rock.
It seems to me like you're contradicting yourself. If we are no more special then the hydrogen in Jupiter then how can we have sentience? If you admit to the fact that sentience is a real thing then you must therefore concede that the combination of elements within us is somehow more special then the combination of hydrogens in Jupiter (which as far as we know is not sentient and does not spend time on searching for "life as we know it.") And if we are somehow special then why not embrace that fact. You'll have plenty of time to be hydrogen (if that's what you really want to be) but you have very little time to be human. I'd say just enjoy it. P.S. If studying astrophysics has given you a case of the nihilisms you should try quantum biology. I have never been as happy as when I realized I could control the superposition of electrons with my mind!
The point I was trying to get at (which may have been diluted, this is more of a rambling blog) is that we have been too busy trying to find its own appointed divinity (what inherently makes us super special!) rather than considering how we actually fit into it all. Sentience is unique to life (as far as we know, of course) but is only really present in a few life forms, the higher thinking ones. That makes us anomalous, but not necessarily more special than any other product of the universe with unique properties.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
my best friend is an astrophysicist so we talk about this a lot. usually at a picnic table with reclining wooden chairs under the sun and with calvin and hobbes collections and a bong. it has a significant effect on your conclusions, to ponder how meaningless you are while feeling absolutely delighted with being alive. there's a lot of liberating ramifications in bleak facts.
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For religious people theres is meaning in life.
If you are atheist then of course, you believe life is a result of a bizarre coincidence, then of course there would be no everlasting meaning to life. The only purpose would be to have as much fun as possible before you die. Forever.
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That's a very cold way of looking at life. You're obviously not religious so you won't see the whole side of life that religious people see, but you are still a person with thoughts, emotions and relationships. That is what makes life worth living, it's what makes it different from the universe. While we may be made up of elements and our universe is controlled by systems, life as a human is much more. We can think, we can feel emotion, we can love, we can have fun and enjoyment. It annoys me when people look at the world in a far too scientific way. Science is a tool that helps us understand the universe, but try to look at other aspects of life, the human side. Stephen Hawking said that while science helps us understand the universe, it can't really help us understand human thinking and emotion as there are far too many formulae to ever calculate. Only atheists really see the world in such an empty way, everyone else sees it having a purpose and a meaning and I take comfort in my beliefs. If you can't do that, then at least try and find enjoyment in life. Living life and experiencing it is what gives life meaning.
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For me it's a question of result versus process. When you learn an instrument do you do it to play better or because you enjoy the process of practicing? Do we talk to people to exchange information and form stronger relationships or because we enjoy the time spent with them?
In what sense is the 13.7 billion years that has happened so far more meaningful than the next 80 years? Or this very moment for that matter?
I think we tend to put way too much emphasis on results and ignore the process that gets us there.
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On May 24 2012 09:10 AusShinDig wrote:
That's a very cold way of looking at life. You're obviously not religious so you won't see the whole side of life that religious people see, but you are still a person with thoughts, emotions and relationships. That is what makes life worth living, it's what makes it different from the universe. While we may be made up of elements and our universe is controlled by systems, life as a human is much more. We can think, we can feel emotion, we can love, we can have fun and enjoyment. It annoys me when people look at the world in a far too scientific way. Science is a tool that helps us understand the universe, but try to look at other aspects of life, the human side. Stephen Hawking said that while science helps us understand the universe, it can't really help us understand human thinking and emotion as there are far too many formulae to ever calculate. Only atheists really see the world in such an empty way, everyone else sees it having a purpose and a meaning and I take comfort in my beliefs. If you can't do that, then at least try and find enjoyment in life. Living life and experiencing it is what gives life meaning.
Purpose and meaning is not necessary for enjoyment. This universe is absolutely brilliant, and nothing brings me more joy in my life than looking at planetary nebulae and letting my mind wander on the significance of what I'm looking at. A whole other star, similar to ours, maybe with a planetary system, having its star eject its outer lays.
Beautiful as can be from afar, devastating and maybe cataclysmic for anything in that system, the simple cycle of fusion ending stability.
Past that though, speculation on the meaning of life's existence is about as pointless as speculating on the outermost dimension capsule (assuming our universe is "inside" or "part" of something external to it, which seems likely but not necessarily the case) origin purposes.
At some point, there ends a purpose in creation, or a reason for creation. There lies the point where something came to be because it simply did. It's often met with the argument of "if it could have not, when it did, then it had to have happened for a reason" yet if it didn't happen, who or what would exist to question why it didn't happen, as opposed to those who question why it did?
Indeed, I am atheist in the common sense of the word, though that does not devoid me of a sense of spirituality--although it may be considered a warped form by some, I suppose.
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I kind of ran into the same "problem". I thought about (with great fear) death too much too often in the last 2 months or so. As I grow older, I realize the inevitability of our deaths in a deep fashion.. and I have depressing feelings concerning my last moment. One cannot imagine the time he just is not here anymore. Its also hard to explain this to anyone around, because they seem to not understand it. That is - I'm pretty alone to bear it.
The biggest problem I have with it is not the fear itself; it's the loss of motivation that comes with the realization of the fact. Why should I even bother to try hard to achieve anything? Whatever we do, the universe will become a nasty place in few billions of years. It seems to suck the happiness out of the things I do in life.
Religious guys and girls have much easier time going through this I guess. But.. if there was a god, he would be unable to stop us from asking "who created you"? And what is the meaning of this? What is the meaning of your existence?
Now.. this brought me to a variety of different thoughts during the last weeks. I wasn't willing to accept the shit, and my mind wandered through many possible solaces to take comfort in. I am still very afraid of death and dying, but I became to realize that there's much more to it.
It's just a huge sea of thoughts that leads me to my current "state of truth" - we have no idea about just about anything. If we look away from the stupid values and propagandas of our modern civilisation, what do we actually know about the questions of life, death and the meaning of it al? The science is a fun thing, but it will always have its limitations. We are used to think in numbers and concepts that make sense to us - like fractions of time, size, 3D space etc - that in fact are not absolute. Time can be very relative, depending on its perception (is flies' life subjective experience shorter or longer than that of a human?), as well as anything else we seem to base our assumptions on.
What the eyes see the mind believes. We are very limited. We just have a few senses through which we experience the world and the universe. We are used to that limitation and we are only devastaded when we loose a sense that we already have. Just imagine not being able to see for 20 years and then suddenly opening your eyes. How many things are there completely unknown to us?
I love science as I love my life, and for the most part, I only believed in verified facts and theories of people much smarter than me. But I deeply realize the limits of such an attitude. Science rewrites itself every once in a (little) while, once we learn something new. It happened so many times that it's pointless to argue - it will happen again. It is fun and it explains some stuff, but I don't think that it will ultimately bring us the answers we are looking for; most definitely, not in our lifetimes.
Whatever the aftermath of our lives will be - nothing is meaningless. Why would it be? What would be the "meaning of life"? Figuring out the meaning itself? And what would be next?  In the least, life is a vacation from the of eternity.
And the best way I like to put it - what would be the meaning of this world / universe's existence in case you were not born?
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From the perspective of a god you have no purpose.
From your own perspective it's whatever you chose.
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EPT
