EPTOn April 28 2012 07:43 ghost_403 wrote:
So you think an entire team with RISEN IN IT is just as terrible?
TL Mafia 'Area' LIII - Page 89
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
So you think an entire team with RISEN IN IT is just as terrible? | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
indecisiveness? fear? theres quite a few reasons a town risen would do what he did. just so you know, it seems to be that risen thought the lynch would go back to ottox. so what's the point of your argument? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On April 28 2012 07:47 johnnywup wrote: There is no reason for town risen to do what he did other than he's terrible? indecisiveness? fear? theres quite a few reasons a town risen would do what he did. just so you know, it seems to be that risen thought the lynch would go back to ottox. so what's the point of your argument? That's just not an argument either. | ||
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PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On April 25 2012 02:59 Mementoss wrote: Everyone keeps asking this question.. It seems like scum have noticed this...To me it feels as today went on Ottoxols posts have got worse and worse, newbier and newbier. It feels like in the scumQT someone just said, yeah dude just play the Newb card hard. This. I went through Mementoss's posts to see if he dropped any hints, but I couldn't find anything definite. MT was really wanting to lynch Ottox but I didn't catch him saying that he was totally sure ottox was scum or not. Right now Ottox is a good lynch but we still have more than a day and plenty other options that we need to look at. If votes start piling up on one person pay attention to everyone's reasons. We're one away from lylo, Town needs to take a close look at everything and everyone. | ||
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PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
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PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
I'm looking into more people now. Everything needs to be scrutinized. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
looking on ottox's filter....and yeah he seems scummy now. + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 16:57 Ottoxlol wrote: I don't get the sloosh kill btw, he contributed scarce, voted on VE. If not lynched he would have been pressured a lot today. Risen was the only one they both suspected to be scum, since sloosh kill has no other explanation then defending Risen I think he is town. he's criticizing scum for a kill (lol?).. and the other part of the post i can't get my head around. They both suspected risen to be scum, so risen is town? another thing: he avoids a lot of accusations and has a lot of useless posts (if not all), and he votes me by sheeping MG then unvotes me for this reason: if you can call that a reason. I "defend" him, so he gets off my back. then "has to vote zeph" while soft defending risen On April 26 2012 07:25 Ottoxlol wrote: I have to ##vote Zephirdd The Risen case is weak in my opinion, I can understand that points 1 and 4 can be suspicious but 2-3 doesnt seem scummy to me. He tried to defend VE, but not with the best tools, he tried to defend himself but not with the best tools. theres an awful lot of soft defending risen UNTIL....RIGHT BEFORE NIGHT ENDS?! On April 26 2012 08:52 Ottoxlol wrote: So its seems like ill get lynched, ill post my thoughts MG + Risen are most likely scum. Zeph Sent Mementoss laya are my other candidates. Zeph had some very strange logic and posts Sent is getting better, but the VE lynch is still there. Mementoss said his problem with me that i did not scumhunt at all, I posted the case on VE d1, d2 I tried to be helpful, posted case, took a stance, he did not lift his vote contrary to his post. laya stated that i am most likely town, zeph is maybe then he voted me for the kill. in that same post, he says MG IS MOST LIKELY SCUM! Remember who he sheeped and voted me because of it? MG! WOW! 2 PEOPLE HE SEEMED TO THINK WAS TOWN ENDED UP IN HIS SCUM LIST RIGHT BEFORE DEADLINE! And I mean he was soft defending risen a LOT. in fact, a little more than an hour before that he posted: On April 26 2012 07:25 Ottoxlol wrote: I have to ##vote Zephirdd The Risen case is weak in my opinion, I can understand that points 1 and 4 can be suspicious but 2-3 doesnt seem scummy to me. He tried to defend VE, but not with the best tools, he tried to defend himself but not with the best tools. But wait, in an hour he says that MG and Risen are most likely scum? .. so yeah, I think ottox is scum now. I want to note: NONE OF THIS is based on the vote/unvote from risen. But it does incriminate Risen and MG as possible scum buddies. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
Alright, Risen post time. First of all I will spoiler gonzaw's case and then gonzaw's response to Risen's response (if that makes sense). Then I will spoiler Paqman's main case. This is so all you lazy people don't have to go a-searching, and it'll be helpful having everything here. As I'm summarising, it's also worth pointing out that at some point slOosh found Risen's play 'off'. + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 01:16 gonzaw wrote: Risen: I'd like to lynch Risen and I'll tell you why This post is wishy washy as hell. First he starts by being unnecessary apologetic when laya called him out. He posts a very wishy washy statement like "from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy". Really? That's not the town Risen I know of. The town Risen I know of would instantly find people scummy and try to create discussion. Town Risen wouldn't stay neutral and spout wishy washy shit like "I'm not sure who's scummy". Then he keeps trying to appear more "innocent" and neutral by saying things like "I messed up last game with my pressure on ET so I'm not sure how to get everyone posting". Then the rest of the post is fluff about Mementos' plan. He doesn't seem to have a solid stance on the matter (says things like "I don't like directing blues, though I realize this game has special stuff going on") yet he just keeps talking about it. Also, please note the tone of his post. It seems neutral, but most of all it's not aggressive at all. It seems submisive. Layabout called him out and he seems afraid and posts only because he was called out. Also take notice of the bolded "Posting lots is pro-town" bit, I'll use it later. He just barely comments on the marvel issue, but doesn't really take any stances. He keeps up with his "I still don't think anybody is scummy" excuse to avoid taking stances on people. He also doesn't comment on other things happening in the thread, like VE's "case" on me, or my case against VE, or the Paqman/Mattchew issue, nothing. Again, note the bolded bit too. Now here's the kicker. Here he goes against layabout and votes him, and his reason is "I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me"... ...really? I already said how this seems like Toad's play from LI. He ignores current discussion, he avoids taking a stance on the current events, and instead decides to FoS someone completely irrelevant for shitty reasons, and keeps his vote there. This vote only disrupts town because he fails to justify it and derails current discussions. Not only that, but it makes it so he can "justify" his vote and just leave it there, so he can fake trying to contribute. But there's another important thing to take into account: Notice how aggressive he's become against layabout. Why did the tone of his post and his behaviour change so much? In that first post he sounded afraid. Laya called him out and he sounded submissive against him, he was the opposite of aggressive. He posted trying to please laya, had a very neutral tone, was wishy-washy and didn't take any stances. Yet now that layabout points out Risen being suspicious, he flips and goes all crazy against him? Really? I don't buy that change of behaviour, it's inconsisent, it's way too sudden and doesn't make sense with the way he was posting before. Hey, remember that bolded bits I was mentioning before? Here: He says that posting a lot is pro-town, yet he's not following his own advice and is barely posting! So really people, Risen is scum because:
So people, let's lynch Risen ##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Risen + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 08:18 gonzaw wrote: Okay, major thoughts after spending like 3 hours reading the thread: About Risen: First of all, I'll deal with your "rebuttal" (if you can call it that) of my case here: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 06:45 Risen wrote: What kind of stupid shit is this? By request of jubjub Pac I'll respond. Wishy washy? What the hell do you want from me not even a day into the game? How the hell could ANYONE have true feelings of someone being scum that early on. You can have policies that guide you, such as kill every idiot you see, like anyone on VE or lynch lurkers like BM, but you can't possibly have feelings of people being scummy that early on. Only people who are atrocious at this game would take that point seriously. Oh look, we have pac taking it seriously. I'm so shocked. You say this posting looks like Toad from LI? Awesome. I'm not Toad. Also, where do you get me being SUBMISSIVE to layabout. The guy was playing like an idiot and I called him out on it. If you count me apologizing for cursing as being "submissive" then you need to get your head checked. How can you go from me voting layabout to trying to get approval from him. Stupidity at it's finest. BUT Pac wants me to address this piece of shit case so lets keep going. Wtf? Risen, as soon as LI started you pressured people (ET, johnny, others), you FoSed them and started discussion. And it was like 2 hours into D1 You can't possibly use the "what the hell do you want from me not even a day into the game?" excuse at all when you don't don't do that when you are town. Yes, you were being submissive, before you called laya out, not after (geez read my fucking post I specifically quote the post I'm talking about) On to your little bullets. 1) I've been busy as all hell, but I've been trying to come in and read and post instead of lurk. Screw it, I should have just lurked. You're right, posting in the thread is anti-town. My bad, I was wrong. I'll stop posting. Thanks for the sarcasm that doesn't accomplish anything. Okay, so you pull off the "busy" excuse...does that justify your lack of activity until then? If you are busy/go away/etc you should tell us so we know about it before we even have to point that out to you. 2) Not taking a solid stance? I SAID DONT DIRECT BLUES. IT IS BAD. How much more solid does it get? What do I have to do to make it more solid? It seemed to me you were just talking just to talk there. You said things like "Well, but I don't see how pointing that out is scummy, but well..", spent talking quite a lot about Mementoss' plan, and all that just to say "don't direct blues". Don't worry though, this is not that important 3) A flimsy vote on layabout? You right... because votes before a day has passed in the game are going to be super solid. Oh wait. They're not. Only an idiot or scum would try and say something like this. I'm leaning idiot because at least your vote isn't with the derps on VE. Yes it's a flimsy vote, and don't use that excuse again, you know it doesn't work like that and it doesn't justify your vote AT ALL. For instance, there were PLENTY of JUSTIFIED votes from other players before you voted layabout, so your point is rendered moot and only serves to make it seem you are avoiding justifying your vote at all and misdirecting it. 4) I like how you call me passive and then point number 4 is saying I'm being too aggressive. This case is air tight guys, let's all get on the Risen choo choo. Right Janaan? Read my case. You were extremely passive until layabout called you out. Then you became extremely aggressive ALMOST INSTANTLY 5) People don't have lives my b I always forget about that. I wasn't supposed to head back to Vegas until next weekend and when I signed up for this game it didn't matter anyways. It took two years to start, though, and I've only been able to read the thread from my phone. Now I'm able to type on a keyboard and tear this horrid case to shreds. Excuses, excuses, excuses. You can't possibly tell me that you think people calling you out because you are not posting means we are idiots because we didn't know that you "weren't supposed to head back to Vegas" or you were "busy" right? Yes, it's possible you were busy, it's possible that Vegas thing happened and you were away or something. However, it's very possible that you had tiny bits of free time between those times to post too. It's entirely possible that you are scum, you were "busy", but when you had free time you just said "Oh fuck it, supposedly I'm still "busy" so I'll just not post for a while". I did it in Newbie IV for instance, where I just said things like "I'm going to uni and I'll be busy this week so I won't be able to post too much". I was busy and going to uni, but when I came back home I just read the thread, read the scum QT and talked to some people there and then did nothing at all and keep lurking. Then every other time I posted I'd say "Oh I'm back from uni/I'm not that busy anymore/blablabla". I wasn't lying, but I was exaggerating it so I was justified in not posting. So you making these kind of excuses doesn't let you off the hook at all. And like I said, if you are going to be legitimately busy, or going away to Vegas (or coming back to Vegas, I didn't really understand that part), then if you don't want misunderstandings you point it out to us. It's not required if you are able to establish your innocence before it, but since you completely failed at that in your case, yes you should have. Also, here's his filter from LI (was town): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046&user=62525 The fact that I could almost instantly peg him as town in that game, while I'm having lots of doubts about his alignment this game should indicate something, at least regarding Risen's earlier behaviour (before he went through that AFK period) I'm kind of torn about this now. Before he started being "active" again, he was scummy as fuck. However, he started using his usual "townie" aggressive act after being called out. He started being assholes to everybody, posting actively, and FoSing everybody without any reasoning at all and just being a dick. There are 2 interesting aspects I found:
Now, this may seem like a conspiracy theory, but even though Risen's past actions would "exonerate" him in many people's eyes (because he's playing to his meta, posting actively, going against the VE lynch and trying to lynch BM, etc), the way he performed said actions, and the way he's been acting regarding those other players make me very uneasy. I find it possible Risen is scum, decided to go all "Fuck this shit I'll FoS everybody, play to my town meta and oppose the VE lynch to gain cred", which is why I'm pointing this out. Holy shit this post is gigantic, I'll post my thoughts on other players in a minute + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 06:53 PaqMan wrote: Risen is scum. + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 14:14 Risen wrote: He already pointed it out in his post voting for you. You're a little late. Posting from my phone I'll be home in a couple hours but it's a little late. Just read everything on my phone, though. Alright, cool, nothing really wrong with it. No real content and nothing that circulates discussion, but hey it's his first post. I'll give that to him. One thing to note is the bolded though. On April 22 2012 02:22 Risen wrote: Yeah I'm sorry. Just woke up. I'll get posting. Posting lots is pro-town and from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy. I'd rather we put pressure on someone who isn't posting. I messed up last game with my pressure on ET so I'm not sure how to get everyone posting. From the last page I do have a problem with mementoss' idea. It seems solid but as you said on this page, all vigs would have to get on board. I don't like directing blues in the first place (i realize this game has special stuff going on, though, so I don't think forwarding the idea is scummy. I just don't think we should do it). Another problem with your plan mt is your directing of jailkeepers. By directing jk away from targets and the vigis you give scum a potential three kill night. They can kill the vig, another person, and then if the vigi target is town they get to laugh at us. To sum, don't direct blues. I think there's been enough discussion about it and with no clearly best plan there's no way to get everyone behind one plan. #1 - He posts this roughly 30 minutes after layabout's post. He coincidentally woke up when he name gets mentioned. I'll give him benefit of the doubt on this one #2 - posting lots is pro-town. But, you don't even have a full page of posts in your filter, even though D1 is a few hours from ending.#3 - posting lots is pro-town and from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy. So what does that mean? Well he's doing what I was previously accusing Mattchew of, not taking a definite side. He's not making a solid opinion on anything. The rest of his post is fluffy. He gives his input on MT's plan and that's it. He doesn't establish any solid ground on any of the issues at hand. His only mention of scum is that "nobody looks scummy". On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote: I don't get your reasoning mt or anyone else's voting for marvel. He's posting and it's very early day 1. There isn't that much to go off of so I don't think he's scummy. This part's important as he does end up voting marv with a very stupid reason. On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote: I hatelurkers, they always fuck us and it isn't pro-town at all. I'd rather not lynch someone who's here day 1. And who does Risen end up voting for? Marv! Risen is full of shit. His only reason for voting marv is because marv voted for VE. But what about Bill Murray? Dude's lurking the entire D1 and votes for VE. Based on just this quote you would think that Risen votes BM but he jumps right in the wagon that BJ made and votes marv. On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote: Posting is pro-town and I don't think we should be scaring people away from posting day 1 bc it just gives people an excuse to be worthless dafuq are you talking about? His next post is basically useless but the next 3 posts are is gold. On April 22 2012 02:58 Risen wrote: Oh, alright. I had read the vigi shot being refunded, but didn't apply that to them not shooting if they were killed. And wtf? Where the fuck do you get me targeting ANYONE right now? Do you see me voting any "lurkers"? Did I point any out? No. I didn't. Why didn't I? Because I know how early it is in the game. Take your useless shit somewhere else layabout. What's with the sudden freak out? All layabout does is make a little comment on you and you blow up. On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote: I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me. ##vote layabout I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too. He immediately votes layabout all because of this little comment: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 02:54 layabout wrote: Anybody feel like Risen is hustlin' us? Also take note of the bold. That's his only mention of BJ&BH. The next couple of posts are useless. So far he still hasn't contributed jack to Town and his posts are weak. UNTIL we get to this one: Why is he so defensive all of a sudden? He definitely is acting off. He's acting like he's guilty of something. He immediately proclaims himself as an easy wagon. But look where he ends up putting his most recent vote! On April 22 2012 03:56 Risen wrote: No. Why even bring that up? I'd call you scum if I thought you were scum. Scum aren't the only ones who jump on a stupid wagon. Lazy townies who don't feel like posting or playing jump on them and screw town too. Again he's acting way too overly-defensive. Chill out bro. On April 23 2012 04:27 Risen wrote: Hey folks. I'm not actually voting layabout. Just woke up, was out drinking last night. I'm going to be going through everyone's filters and I'll make a giant post containing my analysis. It has been two hours since and he still hasn't made his giant post. So far he's keeping up with the thread so I highly doubt he's even working on one. On April 23 2012 04:27 Risen wrote: Let me catch up on the thread, though. Why are there two votes on me? I assumed when layabout wasn't able to start the choo choo that train died. He's "surprised" he has votes on him and is still convinced that layabout's little comment was an attempt to start a wagon on him. It's been two hours since he woke up and that's plenty of time to read through the thread. Despite this, he still has not said a single thing on Gonzaw's case against him. He hasn't brought it up nor has he made a single mention of it. As of that^^ post he still has not given any solid opinions on who is scummy and who's not. Spoilered because I don't want to clutter my case >.> + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote: Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time. Okay, finally have an opinion. johnnyboy is your biggest scumread. On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote: I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim. Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess. I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel. ##vote marvellosity He shits up the rest of this post with useless crap. But wait!! Despite johnnyboy having Risen's biggest scumread, Risen votes for marv?!?!?! Whyyyy??? Here's why: On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote: I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel. ##vote marvellosity He's voting marv because marv placed his vote on VE. I call complete bullshit on Risen. He put his vote on marv because marv is easy wagon #1. Sound familiar? We got you cornered mofo. If Town has enough sense to realize this then you're getting lynched today. This next bit is kind of for ghost and (the deceased) layabout, and comes from gonzaw. + Show Spoiler + He starts his "Everybody voting VE is scum/idiot" thing (just like he did the "Everybody NOT voting VE is scum/idiot" thing in LI). However, he just fixates on marv and BM. He FoSes marv just for voting the claimed doctor...something 6 more players did and he didn't mention them at all at that point(he does briefly mention BM though). He does mention all of them in the 2nd post....but he doesn't make a lot of conclusive stands on them. He mentions that he thinks sloosh and layabout are just idiots, good. He mentions that he thinks marv and BM are scum..good I guess? He still doesn't state why he thinks marv is scum out of all those players just for voting VE (marv had stated reasons for voting VE before, just like most that voted VE by that point). He mentions BM and then starts the crusades to get him lynched, good. However...he mentions that Sentinel and Oxxolul are being "derps" for voting VE and mentions scummy things about them...but then he never mentions them again. If he FoSes marv for voting VE for shitty reasons, and he keeps picking up fights with him because of it, why doesn't he call Sentinel or Oxxolul out? I mean, we know that when he's town he just rages against EVERYBODY that does something he doesn't want to do or something he disapproves. Why does he completely ignore Sentinel and Oxxolul from then on? Why does he totally fixate on marv and BM, yet FoSes them using reasoning that applies to those other 2? He even implied he thought Oxo/Sentinel were suspicious or he was having doubts about them, it doesn't make any sense for him to ignore them. However, he just decides to "pick" the players that have more votes on them: marv and BM. That's quite a coincidence. Sentinel nor Oxxo had votes or suspicions on them, while marv and BM had votes and a lot of suspicions on them. It seems too much of a coincidence, specially since he doesn't mention anything about voting for marv/BM because they are more likely to get lynched or anything. What's the scum motivation for this? Well, the obvious one is that Otto and/or Sentinel are scum, marv and BM are town, and Risen decides to oppose the VE lynch to gain more town cred now that he's been called out. Since he decides to oppose the hell out of the VE lynch, he has to play to his town meta and FoS those that voted for VE, so he decides to FoS the townies that are under heavy suspicion from the ones that voted VE to blend in with other players. It may seem unlikely, but I don't see a town motivation for Risen to IGNORE both Sentinel and Ottolul throughout the whole game since that post of his, specially considering his heavy stance regarding VE, and those that voted for VE. We can note here that gonzaw specifically picked out that Risen hadn't been having a go at Ottoxlol or Sentinel. So it's nice for a bit of WIFOM at any rate. Unfortunately I think this might be slightly undone by a further fact. People need to pay attention to this. + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2012 08:53 Risen wrote: Done reading now. I looked at everyone and I think Ottoxlol has somehow managed to slip his way out of votes with the exception of mt. He'll be receiving my vote for now and this is why. + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 14:41 Ottoxlol wrote: I haven't played mafia on tl To the question you addressed to Paqman, I have some suspicions because some people doesnt like logic, but i think its too early to decide its their limitations or theyre scums. First thing that caught my eye. Tbh it's no biggie. It's a small thing, but I absolutely hate people who go "I'm noob". He's implying that he's played before, just somewhere else, so why does he need to say anything at all? On April 22 2012 06:52 Ottoxlol wrote: About marvel, i think he's not a scum just had no time to post, I would like to see him defend himself. He had 2 bad questions then he afked, I don't believe that's enough for my vote. He will post later, so I think it's useless to discuss. That's not enough for your vote but you put your vote on gonzaw b/c he FoSd you? On April 22 2012 07:38 Ottoxlol wrote: [UoN] Sentinel had two real posts, the first + Show Spoiler + Just wondering, what's the chance gonzaw's not mafia but just making an extremely retarded point? At any rate, what I don't get is number 6. If I was GF pretending to be vig, I'd shoot as many of the other vigs as I could. And if I was JK, I'd protect those vigs who I trust to be either town vigs or some other blues. He doesnt know that GFs cant shoot.. Nuf said, very bad post, calling out gonzaw but not making a case against his plan + Show Spoiler + I'm starting to think all of you people purposely post when I sleep Let's do it like this - everyone just do whatever the fuck they want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. If it's not beneficial in some way to town, then lynch them. If there's one thing I know, it's that voting/lynching/etc. plans always benefit mafia because they can pull them to their advantage (and also you get lynched when your plan especially sucks). Keeping in mind with this train of thought, I will proceed to do whatever the fuck I want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. When I get back, I'll read filters and try and put more on the table. I would wait till he put more on the table before we jump to conclusions, I disagree with that plans always benefiting mafia. He's talkin more in general terms, so maybe if he states his case more clearly we'll get more information. Sentinel, if you would be so kind to tell us your opinion about who's benefiting the town right now and who's not, i would like to read what do you think who should we lynch. The first half of his response can be taken two ways. One, he isn't catching onto the fact that sentinel means the godfathers having goons shoot them. The other, is that he knows this and is simply trying to make a post where he looks useful. The second half is fine, but he's asking for Sentinels thoughts without really doing much himself. On April 22 2012 16:36 Ottoxlol wrote: He has 5 votes right now against marv's 6. Is he a good player? He argued we shouldn't give any info to the scum then claim he's a JK. If he did not claim and we lynch marv or anyone, then scum wouldnt kill him because he had votes. This contradiction is enough for me to vote VE, everyone saying he is a good player, if he is indeed town JK he shouldn't have played this way. So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum. ##Vote: VisceraEyes This is where some serious bells and whistles should be going off for anyone who spots it. Can't find it? "So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum" What horrible justification for a vote. I'm aware he made a few posts asking VE questions, and finding him a little suspicious, but it feels like he's trying to shift the blame away from himself before VE even flips. Oh well, you guys say he's good and no one good would play like this so imma vote him. On April 22 2012 22:43 Ottoxlol wrote: Forget the plan, we already discussed it too much. I don't just disagree with your claim, I wrote it down why is it a bad play. You still did not respond Why does he edit his quote in his further responses to remove the part where he justifies his vote saying VE wouldn't play like this? Why not just quote it? It's small, but small things add up. I absolutely HATE people who edit the things they're quoting. On April 24 2012 15:52 Ottoxlol wrote: I havent finished reading everything, but so far I had an idea I thought I will write down the VE voters relationships maybe we can figure something out. Sentinel attacked BM Ottox did not attack anyone from this grp marv attacked Zeph BM defending Zeph and marv laya attacking marv, defending zeph Zeph attacking BM, and marv I think this will not make a strong read, but I try If Sentinel is scummy, we should investigate Zeph and vice versa If laya is scummy we should investigate Zeph and vice versa If marv is scummy we should investigate BM and vice versa . So my read is there are 0 or 2 scums in the VE voter group, maybe we can use this later What is this? It's the worst defined list I've ever seen. My mind is trying to wrap itself around the logic here but can't because it's intentionally confusing FOR NO REASON. On April 24 2012 16:57 Ottoxlol wrote: I don't get the sloosh kill btw, he contributed scarce, voted on VE. If not lynched he would have been pressured a lot today. Risen was the only one they both suspected to be scum, since sloosh kill has no other explanation then defending Risen I think he is town. Why are you buddying me here? By the logic in this post it sounds like you're accusing me of offing the people who were suspicious of me. Instead, you end with the conclusion that Risen is town. What? Also, the sloosh kill DOES have another explanation and it was already posted in the thread by someone else, blue-hunting. That's not a defense. That a useless post in which you bolded one part of his entire case. On April 24 2012 19:45 Ottoxlol wrote: You did not make a good enough case against Marv and you did not defend VE. So you were not that confident. Continuing his 1v1 fest after harping on the gonzaw/VE 1v1. Standard, but what sticks out here is that he's telling BJ he didn't make a strong enough case against marv and didn't defend VE. Yeah, his case on marv was too weak, but saying he didn't defend VE is a lie. On April 24 2012 20:37 Ottoxlol wrote: LOL I don't understand your case. You say the reason I'm scum because the way i voted VE. First I made a case about why VE is playing badly about the massvigclaim plan, then when he claimed, I stated my reasoning why he shouldn't have, and because you guys said he's the best player ever it's obvious that he is scum. I stated why a scum VE would claim and asked him why did he think the claim was good play. He did not respond, started accusing every second player and yelling, then rqd. I blame my vote on VE's bad play and lack of interest. You still did not respond why is this strong enough to switch from tunneling marv. Stating my posts are worthless, when you did not help town at all (not defending VE when you claim it was obv he's town, not stating a single good case that would rally ppl from VE), is the nail in your coffin. #vote BlazingJitsu Votes BJ after their OMGUS mud-flinging. The end result of this argument is BJ's modkill b/c he couldn't keep his cool when trying to argue with someone who was clearly being willfully absurd. On April 24 2012 21:48 Ottoxlol wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 21:29 Mementoss wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 10:38 Ottoxlol wrote: It seems like the ppl doesnt read the whole thread. My case against VE was simple. He told us never give up any information to the scum, then proceed to a bad claim that ensures his early death as a blue. This is bad play, hes the best player ever so he would not do that if he is indeed town JK. I tried to ask him about this decision tell me what did I miss or what was his idea what would happen, no answer. He ignored my 6 posts directed towards him, then after the votes started to pile up on him he tried defending himself, I told him what am i interested in, he talked about the massvigclaim after we already closed it and had nothing to do with his lynch. He did not read my posts, failed to comprehend them and when I asked him to explain his play he start writing in all caps, and ragequitting. Like a scum VE. The timing was strange too, the claim was around the time BM ninja voted. I did not vote on him because of his bad play, I voted him because he did not answer to my accusations or questions just gave up like a little girl. He says statements that have the potential to explain why it could have been scummy actions but he never explains why its scummy. Such as: "The timing was strange", wait what, how? Also, you did not vote on him based on bad play? Then why the fuck did you talk about it so much in all your posts directed to him? It musta had somewhat of a good influence on your voting towards him. My other posts explained why the timing was strange. If scum VE wants to claim he claims when he's pressured and an easy wagon appears. I said the bad play can mean 2 things, either he's town or a scum (wow that was surprising). If he would have answered why he thought it was good as townie or at least not give up I would have considered that he's not trying to escape the lynch with a fakeclaim, but he tried something that was not optimal. If you look at my filter you can see, I asked about him because before his claim I had only a little suspicion on him + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 23:27 Ottoxlol wrote: Scum VE failed at logic at the plan discussion phase, then proceeded to avoid answering to my questions 5 times in a row. Since he still did not explained why it is good for us that he claimed, I don't see how can this be anything but anti-town. Scum would claim this if they want to avoid a d1 lynch and a nice wagon appears that not too suspicious to jump on. Like the BM train. I wonder how many scums are on that. If i were a vig i would definitely shoot there. Well you dodged matthews question. So that makes you scum by your own logic? You say its anti-town, or bad town, you don't say its scummy, or why its scummy. Just its bad for town. You note that scum would do this to avoid a day 1 lynch, but wait, VE didn't do that, he had barely any pressure on him when he claimed, he had 3 votes to Marvs 6. So this is just wrong. Also you say that scum would want to jump on the BM wagon, well at the time BM wagon as you call it was barely even moving. I think it had 2-3 votes. What? I did not say why is it scummy? Reread. I was arguing if he's playing a bad townie play or a scummy scum play, this choice of words further proves my previous reply that I wanted him to respond, to explain his play.VE had 5 votes against marv's 6. This is also in one of my posts, this was why I argued he shouldnt have claimed because scum was very unlikely to night kill the second highest vote. He claimed right after BM voted for him -> ninja vote ez wagon. Basically your avoiding giving a detailed opinion on who is scum and why they are scum at all costs. You give handy suggestions like vigs shoot into BM voters. Or your little WIFOM earlier, but that is it. I don't, I had a case d1 about VE, I pushed it. It was a big fail. If I have a strong read I will post it. You really didn't have that much of a case on d1. What you did have was everyone else making points and you jumping onto those points pushing it as your case. You proceeded to hide behind your defense that VE was playing bad and therefor scum. On April 24 2012 22:21 Ottoxlol wrote: I believe that there is at least one scum on that list, I read them all. I couldn't come up with a case that's strong. Bm contributed zero, it is really hard to analyse someone with zero posts. Marvellosity been attacked d1 with a very weak case, I did not find anything suspicious there layabout he was on my d1 list because I felt his opinion switches were a bit suspicious but d2 he's been posting some very good things, i think he's town Sentinel wasn't too involved in the debates, the case against him is semi decent, but if we punish someone because he did not got involved it should be the one with the least contribution Zephridd's defense is that he was afk too. We have 3 players who did some afking Sent BM Zeph from the VE crowd, Sentinel and Zeph tried contributing so I would vote rather BM then those other 2. He's getting votes and called out why don't he post and he's still just lurking around. BM please get into the game and show us you are town, or else I feel you'll get lynched. WHAT?! You look at that entire list of people on VE and you can't come up with ANYONE? Earlier you had your Glenn Beck twisted logic post saying 0 or 2 people on your list were probably scum... or something. Now you're saying you can't find anyone, anyone out of the list of people who voted for VE scummy? BM was lurking all day 1, and you can't find that scummy? You find nothing suspicious about marv's play? I don't think marv is scum, and I can point out some suspicios things no problem. There is no one who is above suspicion until they flip green. Layabout goes from being a little scummy to you to not being scummy at all simply because he's "posting better"? Sentinel is scummy as sin! You even pointed out DAY ONE that you thought Sentinel could possibly be acting scummy. It hasn't gotten better for him in my eyes. How can you not make a case? Are you protecting a scumbuddy here? You pointed out that 0 or 2 people on VE might be scum. I'm leaning towards you knowing the number of scum on him. You can't make a case on Zeph? CMON. The guy's defense is that he was lurking! Ahem... I mean afk. You're saying Sentinel and Zeph are in the clear for you, but BM has to go? I will be the first one to hate on BM, but to say BM is your scum read but not zeph/sent is outrageous. BM start posting or you have feelings that he will be lynched. Where were you yesterday when I was shouting for his lynch. Now that sent/zeph are under suspicion, though, lynch the lurker. What remains after that post is one liner after one liner and then this. On April 25 2012 08:03 Ottoxlol wrote: Risen gonzaws case against him He tried to defend VE, but with not the best tools After that he starts to rally people to other candidates (marv/bm). He explained that he did FoS these people only because they had votes on them so it would have been easier to get ahead of VE. I think his reasoning is clear, I find him town. BM He doesnt post, ninja-votes. There is no real case against him because he doesn't post. I can't wrap my head around him, some say scummy, some say don't I can't really decide. If people want to lynch him I will have no objection at all. Sentinel He did not provide any reasoning on his vote for VE or get into the debate about it. A bit scummy. I would vote for him too Marv. From the beginning I felt like BJ is tunneling him too much, he answered his accusations but BJ couldn't understand them, I can relate to that. I am neutral towards him Zephirdd he defended himself with stating he afked, he's still not active enough, hard to judge. Daniel One real post, he votes BM but then promise us a case on marv and that he'll post, we are still waiting. Brood Two posts, he votes marv, I point out some inconsistency in his post but he did not respond. No posts, no case johnnywup I missed this case before, I think a couple of ppl too because no one really talked about this. I am feeling confident voting for johnny. ##Vote: johnnywup More buddying of me and a post containing your "feelings" culminating in a complete swap to voting johnny b/c he's being a little indecisive. Ottoxlol is scum and I will be voting for him. ##vote: Ottoxlol Here we are. Risen's first major case of the game. Risen's major case is against Ottoxlol, when Ottoxlol wasn't even a popular candidate yet. This is pretty important and noticeable. In the Risen & Ottoxlol are scum theory, Risen could easily have manufactured a case against a townie at this point. Risen brings up his case on more than one occasion to try to get people to read it. Ok, now I've pointed this out, is where it gets sketchy. We're at the vote-time. On April 26 2012 08:52 Risen wrote: Can anyone figure out the vote count? I'm panicking having my vote on the same target as BM This... now this is horrible. Just horrible. The fact is, there is almost always going to be scum ON BOTH SIDES of a lynch. Why oh why oh why would you be worried that someone you think might be scum is voting for your candidate? Ottoxlol is practically Risen's ONLY strong case the whole game. And he's letting this be thrown off because of who BM is voting for? Arrrrrghhh!!! Anyway. On April 26 2012 09:14 Risen wrote: If I was a townie I would vote me and I don't know anything that could change my mind.I'll do everything I can before I'm gone. Here he says he will do everything he can. On April 27 2012 09:08 Risen wrote: I've been wrapped up in eve since I've given up here, but I still think ottox is scum. I'm sorry I fucked up. Good luck, town. Why have you given up? You said you were going to do everything you can before you're gone. On April 28 2012 03:36 Risen wrote: I agree completely. Which is why ##vote MidnightGladius jk, back from classes. Gimme a while since I'm playing eve atm This is also fucking lame. If you're bloody town Risen, make a bloody effort to make up for your stupid, stupid screwup and play this game for town to win. I'm playing Eve is not valid. Summary: There seem to be two extremely conflicting points that I don't know how to resolve, because they point in opposite directions. 1) Risen making a case and pushing for an Ottoxlol lynch before it became fashionable 2) Risen being pushed off his, by far, strongest read on some BM nuttery. I'm absolutely torn. Risen has actually done spectacularly little scumhunting apart from Ottoxlol. This means it could have been a bus that backfired horribly as deadline approached. On the other hand, why even bring the heat on to Ottoxlol? It seems such an unnecessary play. Everyone's thoughts please. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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Ottoxlol
735 Posts
i come from a different mafia community, i wont post any wifoms you guys think it is as bad as scumslips. why is it strange that i change opinions? there was a lot going on between my vote on you and the post where I suspect MG. "has to vote" yes. I waited a lot but in the end I had to vote Zeph. My strongest read was MG. If I vote MG I die. I felt Risen was scummy, but the case was weak. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
##vote: ottoxlol I'm voting BM tomorrow. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On April 28 2012 08:38 Risen wrote: Whatever I'm voting ottoxlol. I gave up when I realized it came out that we lost a second blue. Who else is there to make a case on? I already screwed us by completely screwing up yesterday b/c I'm horrible. I read through people's filters and this game is so trashed what's the point? I'm going to vote for ottox, he's still my strongest scumread besides BM who everyone seems to be A OK with lurking like a boss then popping in for two seconds then popping back out. Same with freakin St Daniels I don't care that he was sick or whatever. Every game I'm in is ruined by lurkers. When ottox flips that means I'm lynched next. And then it's pretty much lylo according to gonzaw's earlier statement. I'm sorry, like I said earlier this is pretty much the second consecutive gamed I've ruined and I didn't even know I could ruin a game when I wasn't an alignment checker. ##vote: ottoxlol I'm voting BM tomorrow. You're only ruining it by not playing to win. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
The case risen makes against ottox is good the first time i read it. Re-reading it, it's a lot of empty text with a lot of "commentary" of what ottox is posting...not many actual points. The points he does make are mostly on small points. The big points he does make are good though, imo. But that's only like 10% of the actual post. I do find it odd it took him 33 pages to have a one sentence blurb, then on page 62 he makes a case on him. With no mention of ottox in between. NONE. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On April 28 2012 08:44 johnnywup wrote: Marv, I wouldn't call it an early strong case on ottox. The first time risen MENTIONS ottox it's on page 33, and it's one sentence. The next time is 29 pages later...which is when he makes his case, and says a lot, and then votes for him. The case risen makes against ottox is good the first time i read it. Re-reading it, it's a lot of empty text with a lot of "commentary" of what ottox is posting...not many actual points. The points he does make are mostly on small points. The big points he does make are good though, imo. But that's only like 10% of the actual post. I do find it odd it took him 33 pages to have a one sentence blurb, then on page 62 he makes a case on him. With no mention of ottox in between. NONE. I don't think you're thinking about it the right way. I thought his case was decent, and obviously actually had a fair amount of effort put in to it. By 'early' I meant that it was putting a shitload of pressure on Ottoxlol that wasn't there at that point. As in, he wasn't just wagonning with the case. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
This is the point. This is what I want you to think about. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
Thoughts? | ||
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