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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
The problem is, a lot of filters read very fluffy so far. I want vonKlaust, Yomi, and Dittert to all post something more solid, and HiroPro to post anything at all. Directly at Yomi -- what's your reasoning behind Brood being mafia? You've posted you believe it, but haven't made a case yet. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On April 12 2012 23:56 yomi wrote: ##vote: dittert did I do that right? Please make your votes bold, like so: ##Vote: Snarfs I'll do a vote count now. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
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Dittert
United States97 Posts
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
Votecount ArcticFox (2) Xatalos imallinson Dittert (1) yomi HiroPro (0) About 31 hours to the lynch. Remember the person who has the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched (tie goes to first person to get that number of votes)! If you notice any mistakes please let me know. | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:00 Dittert wrote: @yomi Can you explain your vote for me? I checked your filter, and you never make a substantial claim against me. Also, FWIW, you're the first ACTUAL liar I've found. You claim to be the first person in the thread to attack me, but willz and Arctic attacked me first. This is what I meant when I in the beginning of the thread said that you should be careful with your accusations. Could you please put forward some actual evidence for him lying? If not, could it just be that he didn't take notice of the other attacks? | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
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yomi
United States773 Posts
This is what I thought was suspicious: On April 12 2012 08:11 BroodKingEXE wrote: Hi Guys, I would like to kick off this game with a discussion question: What do you guys think of a Lynch all Lurkers and a Lynch all Liars policy? This is often a strategy employed in games to get scum to talk, and thus be able to separate them from the group. I strongly suggest such a policy, because in forum Mafia we naturally only have the posts of the Mafia to weed them out. If they aren't talking or are lying we will never be able to figure out the truth. Many others have said policy discussion is suspicious. I agree. That's why I was the first to point out dittert and also pointed out, and am iterating my stance against, brood, the other policy wonk. Brood proposes a lurk or lie policy. Dittert proposes an RNG policy. Kharad engages both of them in what I think is a ridiculous discussion. I accuse all three in the first concrete post of the whole thread. Now I am accused of not being concrete, not contributing, etc. Sorry I don't spam the thread, I guess I should. Every post I have made I have accused someone. What is more solid than that? Arctic please vote. You say you don't want to vote early but it's really not that early anymore. Remember I posted that I thought you were town? I'm less and less convinced of that. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On April 12 2012 15:57 Xatalos wrote: + Show Spoiler + The person I want to lynch the most right now is: ArcticFox. Here is what I got from his filter so far: On April 12 2012 08:34 ArcticFox wrote: Let's not waste Day 1. Too many times I've seen people say it's not important. We can find out plenty as long as everyone posts. Please be active so we don't waste our first lynch on a bored townie. The sooner everyone posts, the sooner we can get to the real scumhunting. On the surface this looks like friendly advice to fellow townies, but this is EXACTLY the kind of posting I did on A Game of Thrones Mafia as a Mafia Framer. His attitude seems like he wants to appear useful, but he doesn't really say anything useful - the opposite of actual townies who want to be useful, but don't care as much about their appearance. The overall feel I get from this post is "please don't lynch me, I'm being useful!" On April 12 2012 08:58 ArcticFox wrote: I hope our blues this game are as clever as you were that game, KB. Discussion is good. Idle chat is not. As you newer people confirm, please post shortly after with your thoughts on these policies as well. First of all: why discuss about blue roles at all? This is the same mistake I did in A Game of Thrones Mafia - we kept talking about blue roles in the Mafia chat, so subconsciously I mentioned possibilities about the blue roles even in the normal thread. And what do you mean with "idle chat is not good"? So far this "idle chat" has been very useful (certainly much more useful than silence or the trolling/flaming we had in A Game of Thrones Mafia...). Also, you keep mentioning policies, which is something Mafia loves to do - you can appear somewhat useful without actually contributing anything. On April 12 2012 09:21 ArcticFox wrote: Verrrrry WIFOM reasoning. Be careful of that. It sounds logical, but discussing motive rarely leads anywhere. What if scum decides to bus? What if someone jumps up to defend because they think RNG is silly, or they have a blue read on him? This line of reasoning leads nowhere fast, and it's best to ignore it. You're tripping my scum-o-meter pretty hard right now. Got any better suggestions? There he goes again, talking about blue roles. It's too bad it probably ends now after I mention this, but I would have wanted to see how many times he can talk about blue roles / blue reads during the game, since this is the second time already in only 7 hours... And if you think Dittert is Mafia, why not vote for him or even put any real pressure on him? It looks like you just want to fake pressure an obvious target (a suspiciously acting townie) or put some distance between yourself and a fellow Mafia (if he gets lynched, you can claim you "pushed for his lynch" all along). On April 12 2012 10:28 ArcticFox wrote: I would prefer not to have to policy lynch at all, but liars and lurkers is a good place to start if we don't have any solid scumreads by the end of Day 1. So in short -- more people should post so we have more information to go on and can avoid a policy lynch. You look like you want to make a policy lynch, since you keep talking about policies, but still try to appear as if you "want" to lynch a Mafia player (if something too obvious comes along and you have to bus your teammate). I got a pretty solid Mafia read already in just a matter of hours, so this discussion is definitely not "useless"... ##Vote: ArcticFox I don't like this case at all. You start off by saying ArticFox's posting reminds you of your own posting as mafia in AGOT - this has no relevance at all; ArticFox isn't you - meta from another game with someone else playing is an awful reason to think someone is mafia. And policy discussion that early on with very few people online is perfectly normal. I'm also calling it now: likely either yomi or Dittert is Mafia. I have a hard time figuring out the 3 Mafia from this back-and-forth action, but if we manage to find even one today, it should make it easy to figure out the rest tomorrow. Why the sudden shift in tone? A few posts ago, you were 70 or 80 percent sure that ArticFox is mafia, in this same post you say that either yomi or Dittert is mafia, and yet at the same time you have a hard time figuring out who mafia is? You sound like a mafia member getting a bandwagon rolling and then jumping off before it crashes. ##Vote: Xatalos | ||
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yomi
United States773 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:00 ArcticFox wrote: EBWOP: Also for Yomi -- why is the vote for Dittert if you're sure Brood's scum? note arctic coming to the defense of dittert aka the most highly suspected player defending the second most highly suspected player. first big slip? not sure what to make of hiro accusing xatalos. I think the guy is kind of ridiculous but I think he (xatalos) is town. arctic/ditt/hiropro mafia 1/2/3 ? | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:30 yomi wrote: note arctic coming to the defense of dittert aka the most highly suspected player defending the second most highly suspected player. first big slip? not sure what to make of hiro accusing xatalos. I think the guy is kind of ridiculous but I think he (xatalos) is town. arctic/ditt/hiropro mafia 1/2/3 ? Answer the question. | ||
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yomi
United States773 Posts
for the third time: I am voting for Dittert because he proposed a policy which I thought was bizarre and ill advised. More than that, I thought that proposing any policy at all was suspicious. Am I really not writing clearly because I feel like I have made one post in this thread and then explained it 5 times. | ||
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yomi
United States773 Posts
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yomi
United States773 Posts
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trumpetarn
Sweden32 Posts
Now on to some more interesting stuff: Trumpetarn, I don't really like your posting style. You are parroting other people's opinions without adding anything to the discussion. This is a really easy trick for mafia to get on a bandwagon, without ever stepping into the spotlight. Another thing I don't like is this bit of your post: This seems like a very easy way for you to pave the way for you covering any potential scumslips you make. Now I tend to think that scumslips are vastly overrated (and I have played two mafia games in which I hugely trumped up people's scumslips... as mafia), but that is not what you're saying. You're saying that we should not pressure too much, because it will make townies look like mafia. I vehemently disagree: pressure is a great tool for distinguishing the townie from the scum... just not by scumslips. To answer this part I will just refer to my edit were I state that I think It is something to have in mind when pressuring but still this is a part of the game which is our way to find out who are scum and who are not. I will try to not parroting to much in the future, But since this is my first game ever I think it is hard to formulate things sometimes sinces English aint my native language. But as told I will try to be more my own in the future posts. So... I want to hear your opinion. In fact, I want you to tell me what you think about Xatalos, his playstyle and his case on Arcticfox. So far your vague suspicion of Xatalos has been your only real contribution so far, and I find it rather meagre. Tell us more about why you don't like his playstyle. I don’t really dislike his playstyle, The only thing really was the fact that he came into the game with a long post with accusations, this made me feel like he wanted to fast state that look extra on these people and telling us “I am innocent”. I don’t say he is scum though I just felt a small hinch that this could be a very good play to disguise a mafia play. But giving it some more thoughts I think that it is maybe overworking the analysis since it’s a beginners game but something I thought at least and I think it is important to say everything you think to give everyone as much of my information as possible. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
I'll post more after lunch. I want to hear from imallinson and more from HiroPro. Those filters are still very thin. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9673 Posts
Let's see how your logic fails: On April 13 2012 01:16 HiroPro wrote: I don't like this case at all. You start off by saying ArticFox's posting reminds you of your own posting as mafia in AGOT - this has no relevance at all; ArticFox isn't you - meta from another game with someone else playing is an awful reason to think someone is mafia. And policy discussion that early on with very few people online is perfectly normal. You discredit my case just by saying that a metagame argument is bad. That's definitely false, since metagame is an important part of this game - but metagame is simply a part of my case, not even the most important part of it. I understand that a townie MIGHT play like I would play as Mafia, but it's much more likely that Mafia would play like I would play as Mafia. Understand this point? And more importantly: the several potential Mafia slips from ArcticFox are not condemning seperately, but when combined, they definitely don't paint a good picture of him. On April 13 2012 01:16 HiroPro wrote: Why the sudden shift in tone? A few posts ago, you were 70 or 80 percent sure that ArticFox is mafia, in this same post you say that either yomi or Dittert is mafia, and yet at the same time you have a hard time figuring out who mafia is? You sound like a mafia member getting a bandwagon rolling and then jumping off before it crashes. ##Vote: Xatalos I never said I have a hard time figuring out the Mafia. I only said I have a hard time figuring out the COMPLETE Mafia team, since many of my Mafia suspects are pushing (or at least fake pushing) for each others' lynching. When was I trying to "jump off a bandwagon"? It would be foolish to say ArcticFox is 100% Mafia, since there's no way to know that. I'm just saying he is my best Mafia read at the moment, followed by yomi and Dittert. I'm searching for material to make a second strong case from, but at the moment I'm not ready to push strongly for someone else than ArcticFox. Right now I want to hear more from you (HiroPro), willz22912 and Acrofales to improve my reads. You three have been at least semi-lurking so far... (I also want to correct one misconception about my wording. When I say someone is 50% suspicious, I think it's 50/50 (even) if he is town or Mafia. When I say someone is 70-80% suspicious, I think he is pretty likely to be Mafia. When I say someone is 95% suspicious, I think he's almost quaranteed to be Mafia.) | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 12 2012 15:57 Xatalos wrote: /confirm I strongly disagree with people saying this discussion has been "idle chat" or "pointless discussion". There's only so much you can do 7 hours into the game, but what I've got from these posts has been VERY useful: in fact, after reading all the posts in one go, I'm already ready to cast a vote (not just a fake pressure like KharadBanar). The person I want to lynch the most right now is: ArcticFox. Here is what I got from his filter so far: On the surface this looks like friendly advice to fellow townies, but this is EXACTLY the kind of posting I did on A Game of Thrones Mafia as a Mafia Framer. His attitude seems like he wants to appear useful, but he doesn't really say anything useful - the opposite of actual townies who want to be useful, but don't care as much about their appearance. The overall feel I get from this post is "please don't lynch me, I'm being useful!" First of all: why discuss about blue roles at all? This is the same mistake I did in A Game of Thrones Mafia - we kept talking about blue roles in the Mafia chat, so subconsciously I mentioned possibilities about the blue roles even in the normal thread. And what do you mean with "idle chat is not good"? So far this "idle chat" has been very useful (certainly much more useful than silence or the trolling/flaming we had in A Game of Thrones Mafia...). Also, you keep mentioning policies, which is something Mafia loves to do - you can appear somewhat useful without actually contributing anything. There he goes again, talking about blue roles. It's too bad it probably ends now after I mention this, but I would have wanted to see how many times he can talk about blue roles / blue reads during the game, since this is the second time already in only 7 hours... And if you think Dittert is Mafia, why not vote for him or even put any real pressure on him? It looks like you just want to fake pressure an obvious target (a suspiciously acting townie) or put some distance between yourself and a fellow Mafia (if he gets lynched, you can claim you "pushed for his lynch" all along). You look like you want to make a policy lynch, since you keep talking about policies, but still try to appear as if you "want" to lynch a Mafia player (if something too obvious comes along and you have to bus your teammate). I got a pretty solid Mafia read already in just a matter of hours, so this discussion is definitely not "useless"... ##Vote: ArcticFox Other people I'm going to keep a close watch on: Dittert, yomi. Neither have contributed to the thread, but still tried to appear "active" enough to avoid being lynched. yomi even had a strange OMGUS reaction to BroodKingEXE after being suspected, without ANYTHING to back up his counter-suspicion. Also, this: Exactly the same kind of tactic I employed in A Game of Thrones Mafia... You want to apologize for your mistakes and noobish play (why would a townie ever need the urge to make a public apology?!) to make people think of you as a noob townie. I can feel the fear and hesitation pouring from this post. I would also want to hear your opinion, Acrofales. You were VERY active and talkative in A Game of Thrones Mafia, but so far you have been inactive. What do you think about my case on ArcticFox? Do you have your own Mafia reads that I might have missed? Terrible case on Arcticfox. You're willing to lynch someone 7 hours into the game based on your experiences of how you played Mafia in the GoT game? I looked through your filter, even you stated yourself that it felt too easy as Mafia to hide because you never drew attention to yourself. I also recognize that Acrofales was your scum buddy that game and your Mafia plan was to rely on his "noobiness" to let him get away with his opening post (but it almost got him lynched) Your entire reasoning behind attacking him was that he mentioned blue roles a few times and he was in favor of policy lynches, something that you said you did "as Mafia." So basically if someone said something that you would do, you would assume that is suspicious even though you mostly coasted in GoT, you didn't lead the town towards a mis-lynch or towards wrong lines of thinking. Don't project your experience from GoT in here with that little reasoning, you're creating a bandwagon and getting everyone to agree with you based on terrible logic. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 12 2012 17:14 Xatalos wrote: Nevertheless, you were THINKING about blue tells as you considered lynching lurkers = possibly killing blues. It's not a reason enough to lynch you yet, but if I had to choose between you or anyone else outside of ArcticFox, Dittert and yomi, I would choose to vote for you. And you seem to forget that blue players very rarely are lurkers: mostly they try to act like vanilla townies and be at least somewhat active. Being a lurker or semi-lurker means a higher chance of Mafia, since it's against Mafia's win condition to contribute. Besides, I found your hesitation and wishy-washiness more condemning than your comment about lurkers = blues. On April 12 2012 19:03 Xatalos wrote: Hmm, good answer. Your suspiciousness dropped a bit in my eyes. I want to see ArcticFox, Dittert, yomi and KharadBanar respond yet. You had suspicions in allinson, and then when he blindly followed your bandwagon you're okay with it and it drops your suspicion? I've played town every single time I've played mafia and it's always the bandwagoners that are suspicious. So quick to support you and you return the favor? No. Not this early, not without any credibilty earned. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9673 Posts
On April 13 2012 02:44 willz22912 wrote: Terrible case on Arcticfox. You're willing to lynch someone 7 hours into the game based on your experiences of how you played Mafia in the GoT game? I looked through your filter, even you stated yourself that it felt too easy as Mafia to hide because you never drew attention to yourself. I also recognize that Acrofales was your scum buddy that game and your Mafia plan was to rely on his "noobiness" to let him get away with his opening post (but it almost got him lynched) Your entire reasoning behind attacking him was that he mentioned blue roles a few times and he was in favor of policy lynches, something that you said you did "as Mafia." So basically if someone said something that you would do, you would assume that is suspicious even though you mostly coasted in GoT, you didn't lead the town towards a mis-lynch or towards wrong lines of thinking. Don't project your experience from GoT in here with that little reasoning, you're creating a bandwagon and getting everyone to agree with you based on terrible logic. Talking about policy lynches or blue roles isn't Mafia-like only because of my metagame experiences - it's universally not something town SHOULD be doing. I understand a new townie might not understand that, but you can't just let it slide based on "noob town". ArcticFox might just be a noob townie, but I haven't seen a better case against anyone else. What about you? Who do you think is Mafia and why? | ||
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