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On March 19 2012 13:36 Fionn wrote:
One thing I would like to see if they play again is for New Polt to throw in some Old Polt. A long time ago people would joke about how Polt would never be seen throwing down a third CC, but he pretty much played macro games every single time against Stephano. Throw in some cheese. Throw in the strong timing pushes that he used to be solely known for. It's great that his macro, which was pretty bad, has improved so much, but going for seven straight games of just, 'Hey, let's make the best finals ever and go late game' every time isn't going to be the best when going up against the strong late game Zerg army. The bunker play was cute, but wasn't any real sort of rush or attack and just to take some drones off mining/produce more zerglings.
Totally agree with this. Polt's micro with bio is so good, I really think he could have taken a game with a 11/11 rax rush, and that might have messed up Stephano's psychology for the rest of the series
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The thing that most amazed me about Stephano vs. Polt in these games is that each game Stephano won, he came back. There was never a game where he just owned Polt all game long - every game there was a point where it looked like he was going to straight-up lose, but then he gets a good engagement in, Polt runs out of resources, and then Stephano pulls through in the late-game.
Polt's game is very mid-game focused. He wins by starving the Zerg out via expo denial, mass expanding himself, while surviving t3 Zerg tech by just throwing more units at it. The difference between Stephano and other Zergs this tournament, however, is that Stephano was able to keep Polt's own economy in check, after which Polt ends up running out of money.
Polt cut a lot of corners vs. Stephano - ie no turrets, no scans for burrowed banelings, etc., went for extremely greedy builds like CC first that were at the same time impervious to busts, and ends up with a massive macro mid game. It's a very scary style, but Stephano found the openings he needed to win, and that's awesome.
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Haven't seen NonY yet did he go home T_T
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I know the tournament just ended and I'm supposed to be all content and whatnot but I just want to fastforward time to the next time these two meet. I want them both to look closely at the replays and adjust from there so we see even better games in the future. IDK why but TvZ appeals to me the most of all matchups and I just love seeing well matched players really push each other. Last two Tournaments Polt had the edge, this time Stephano had the answers, next time who knows ?
Also more MKP vs Stephano for added TvZ goodness, those two haven't played each other enough.
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This should be a interesting SOTG, cant wait!
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Given the power of zerg now after the snipe nerf, and the power of protoss after the upgrade buff I would put my money on those races. I dont think mvp, polt, or whatever top korean terran you mention can consistently win games against protoss or zerg right now in late game assuming both players play near perfect.
I dont think its Polt I think its just the balance of races. I would not be suprised at all if months from now all the statistics point to terran falling behind the other 2 races.
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On March 19 2012 13:49 snakeeyez wrote:
Given the power of zerg now after the snipe nerf, and the power of protoss after the upgrade buff I would put my money on those races. I dont think mvp, polt, or whatever top korean terran you mention can consistently win games against protoss or zerg right now in late game assuming both players play near perfect.
Good thing we haven't seen anyone play perfectly yet.
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United States15275 Posts
On March 19 2012 13:36 Fionn wrote:
One thing I would like to see if they play again is for New Polt to throw in some Old Polt. A long time ago people would joke about how Polt would never be seen throwing down a third CC, but he pretty much played macro games every single time against Stephano. Throw in some cheese. Throw in the strong timing pushes that he used to be solely known for. It's great that his macro, which was pretty bad, has improved so much, but going for seven straight games of just, 'Hey, let's make the best finals ever and go late game' every time isn't going to be the best when going up against the strong late game Zerg army. The bunker play was cute, but wasn't any real sort of rush or attack and just to take some drones off mining/produce more zerglings.
He has a habit of going through builds like once every one-two months, then completely discarding them. First it was the three reaper bunker rush into expand, then it was the 1 rax FE into marine-double banshee push. These days it's a combination of expand ---> marauder/hellion and sC's 1 rax FE into 7 rax combat shield pressure. But eventually he will get tired of them and never use them again. It makes him dangerously predictable: at any point in time he only has 3-4 active builds for any matchup, and while he has had great success recently he has also been mindgamed hard by top-tier players who know his tendencies. Leenock did it during Blizzard Cup and Alive abused his macro style hard in the NASL qualifier. Mindgames are so important in the GSL but Polt just refuses to use them.
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United States23455 Posts
On March 19 2012 13:49 Pyre wrote:
Damn everyone left?
It's almost midnight with school tomorrow for college kids.
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Everyone always says no one plays near perfect but no one knows what perfect in an unsolvable game even means. I mean perfect within the context of being a human being which means there will always be mistakes no one can play a game free of mistakes every time. I think a lot of players play the game near the skill ceiling already its just a matter of who makes a few small mistakes since so many players are near the same skill. Its just the maps and meta game changing the differentiates games now.
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Northern Ireland22508 Posts
On March 19 2012 13:49 snakeeyez wrote:
Given the power of zerg now after the snipe nerf, and the power of protoss after the upgrade buff I would put my money on those races. I dont think mvp, polt, or whatever top korean terran you mention can consistently win games against protoss or zerg right now in late game assuming both players play near perfect.
I dont think its Polt I think its just the balance of races. I would not be suprised at all if months from now all the statistics point to terran falling behind the other 2 races.
The strength of Toss vs Terran is a combination of the potency of their classic 2 base timings, plus the strength of their heavy ugrade/more macro focused style. Difficult to differentiate between the two, and gives Protoss a lot of scope to flip things around in BoX series.
ZvT it seems you have to win or do a lot of damage with timings, or you can get ground down in the lategame and eventually lose unless your opponent blunders. There are exceptions but that's the pattern I've seen recently.
In either matchup, glad I don't play Terran when I see how difficult their lategame has become in both matchups.
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On March 19 2012 13:52 snakeeyez wrote:
Everyone always says no one plays near perfect but no one knows what perfect in an unsolvable game even means. I mean perfect within the context of being a human being which means there will always be mistakes no one can play a game free of mistakes every time. I think a lot of players play the game near the skill ceiling already its just a matter of who makes a few small mistakes since so many players are near the same skill. Its just the maps and meta game changing the differentiates games now.
We say that now, but there were unbelievable games a year ago where people were saying the same thing. In a year what's conceivable will change completely. They played consistently on a level above everyone else in this tournament. But that's only for the current skill level.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On March 19 2012 13:49 snakeeyez wrote:
Given the power of zerg now after the snipe nerf, and the power of protoss after the upgrade buff I would put my money on those races. I dont think mvp, polt, or whatever top korean terran you mention can consistently win games against protoss or zerg right now in late game assuming both players play near perfect.
I dont think its Polt I think its just the balance of races. I would not be suprised at all if months from now all the statistics point to terran falling behind the other 2 races.
polt won assembly (came second here)
MKP won mlg arena
iron squid looks good for terran atm
IPL Tournament of Champions is loaded with terrans
GSL code S is mostly terran
IEM finals had 2 terrans in the top 3
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Geoff is asking great questions. Someone did their homework.
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stephano doing sotg with his "i just won $10k" aviators on.
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Magnificent! The sun is coming up on the eve of this state of the game. God im tired :D
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WII WOULD LIKE TO PLAY
(Wii music playing on SotG stream. xD)
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Stephano should have slid across the stage in his socks
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I felt this series was a pretty good example of how problematic blizzard made TvZ late-game with the ghost nerf. I'm not going to take anything away from Stephano, he played an amazing series, and it's nice to see a foreigner holding his own against koreans, time and time again. Every game was pretty much the same story though, Stephano utilizing the power of tech-switching, forcing Polt into a unit compostion which will deal with Wave # 1 just fine, but is terrible vs the inevitable wave # 2. You force Terran into anti-ultra, take a fight, switch onto broodlords, all of a sudden Terran is left with 15+ tanks and marauders which they can't really do much with unless they go around the map avoiding a direct engagement forever, looking to trade those tanks and marauders somewhat efficiently.
I think we terrans need to start looking into mech TvZ again, seeing how the 3-3 200/200 mech army is pretty capable to deal with just about anything that Zerg has, if accompanied by vikings.
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EPT
