EPTGood night !
One thousand and one posts, History of Austria - Page 5
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Tufas
Austria2259 Posts
Good night ! | ||
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ForzaDNatura
Italy2 Posts
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Tufas
Austria2259 Posts
On March 05 2012 11:20 ForzaDNatura wrote: Now I know why I've never heard of Austrian artists. Italians and French are good artists, Germans and Austrians are good mechanics. Hahahaha keep telling that to yourself | ||
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CarlosOmse
Germany507 Posts
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HallBregg
134 Posts
-Forced germanization of slav peoples. -The germans reaping all the benefits of the empire. -The empire falling to pices due to such bigotry and nepotism. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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Tufas
Austria2259 Posts
On March 06 2012 02:54 HallBregg wrote: I like how the op misses such high points of Austrian history as: -Forced germanization of slav peoples. -The germans reaping all the benefits of the empire. -The empire falling to pices due to such bigotry and nepotism. That is all you are missing from my writeup ? I am missing much much more ... But please, I am open for proposals. Write it good and I will add it, no problem at all ! Please, I would actually like that. I am not joking, do it ! And it was said before that I did not mention some things. Yes, I did not mention a whole lot. I never claimed to have made a full list of Austria`s history. You might read it like it was intended to be : A fun piece about a little bit of history. | ||
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Synwave
United States2803 Posts
On March 05 2012 08:21 Tufas wrote: Please when you visit Austria, tell them that I sent you. With all the millions of euros my government is going to pay me, I may even fund a starleague.  So... should I write about the dark sides as well ? There is a lot of bullshit going on here too ... I would be interested in all sides if you feel up to it. I don't mean about the history etc that some here find bothersome but current stuff. Which is what I assume you meant. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On March 06 2012 02:54 HallBregg wrote: I like how the op misses such high points of Austrian history as: -Forced germanization of slav peoples. -The germans reaping all the benefits of the empire. -The empire falling to pices due to such bigotry and nepotism. All countries have skeletons, doesn't mean you can't celebrate the good stuff. Self immolation gets boring. | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
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forgottendreams
United States1771 Posts
Thanks again I'll be checking up every week or so as always | ||
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ChaosTerran
Austria844 Posts
I am proud that we learned from our mistakes and realized that war is wrong and only leads to pain and suffering, other countries like the US are yet to learn this important lesson. I am proud of austria and I am proud to be austrian. And one thing you didn't mention in the OP is south tyrol, it is really sad, austrian land, with austrian people which was stolen by italy. Even today there are 70% austrians living there and it is still part of italy. It makes me sad, when I was in south tyrol the people were speaking austrian german, they aren't italian and you see alot of austrian flags there too. It was injustice and it will always be injustice. There is stronger movement now for them to come back for austria and I will never give up hope that we will one day be able to welcome them back home. 2 or 3 years ago it was even proposed in the austrian parliament to give every south tyrolean "italian" the option for double citizenship (austrian and italian). In the 1950's there was a referendum held in south tyrol where more than 50% voted for yes to return to austria, but the UN didn't accept it, it was injustice, the land was originally stolen and it was not allowed back to austria when the people there wanted to come back. This was against the right of self-determination that all people in europe have. it makes me really sad, I know that south tyrol doesn't want to come back to austria at the moment, because of the level of autonomy italy gave them, but once the italian economy collapses (and I bet it will, just like greece) the politicians even said that a reunion with austria would be one of the things to consider. But we have to be proud of our country for what it is now, neutral, peaceful and we respect the law and human rights. Austria is much more than just a small state in the middle of europe, austria should be a role model for all the countries who think wars are necessary. Our economy is doing just fine and the people here are happy and proud of their country and we don't need to participate in wars to achieve any of that, in fact we take pride in the fact that we don't participate in wars anymore. This is why I love this country so much, the ability to learn from previous mistakes is what makes this country and the people here so special. edit: Just to put this whole south tyrol thing into perspective. How would americans feel if new york and some eastern parts of the US were all of a sudden declared as part of italy or canada or some other country? Even though this is american land with american people? Doesn't seem right, don't you think? And everyone would call it injustice, which it is. | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
Some of the memories I can recall right now are: - Standing room tickets to Bach's St. Matthew Passion. Needless to say, more than half of us collapsed and slept before it was finished. Man, standing room -_-;; How can you (presumably local Viennese people) stand through the entire Passion. - Gustav Mahler Youth Orchestra performing Mahler's 4th (I'm quite sure it was 4th). They had like 8 basses, oh the envy! We only had 4. Oh, and our concertmaster who got smashed the night before (yay for alcohol off-the-shelf at the local grocery), he fell asleep during the performance and actually banged his head on the iron handle bar in front of him (he was on the second floor deck front row). It was loud enough for those around him to hear it. - Performing at a large senior home. I was positioned right in front of this old lady who gave me a nasty look the entire time. I think she noticed I was out of tune... heheheh. Damn you Viennese people for being so musically keen. =P - Visiting a local high school to perform there. I'm pretty sure they had a better orchestra than us, they probably pitied us x_x but oh so many fine chicks, so many. - Having the greasiest meal ever - some cream sauce linguine with bacon-wrapped-cheese-filled-juicy-sausage. Oh speaking of which, I remember now that we stayed at the Prince Eugene hotel, and the place we ate was like 2 doors next to the hotel. Good stuff. Would visit again, of course! Hopefully I'll remember (of course I will, thanks to the subscribed threads feature) and read through the entire post more thoroughly later. | ||
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Tufas
Austria2259 Posts
On March 07 2012 03:03 ChaosTerran wrote: + Show Spoiler + Something that makes me really proud to be austrian is the fact that we are one of the only real neutral countries in the world. We will never participate in wars again, never again will we fight with out neighbors or anyone else. It is part of our constitution and it is part of austrian identity. I am proud that we learned from our mistakes and realized that war is wrong and only leads to pain and suffering, other countries like the US are yet to learn this important lesson. I am proud of austria and I am proud to be austrian. And one thing you didn't mention in the OP is south tyrol, it is really sad, austrian land, with austrian people which was stolen by italy. Even today there are 70% austrians living there and it is still part of italy. It makes me sad, when I was in south tyrol the people were speaking austrian german, they aren't italian and you see alot of austrian flags there too. It was injustice and it will always be injustice. There is stronger movement now for them to come back for austria and I will never give up hope that we will one day be able to welcome them back home. 2 or 3 years ago it was even proposed in the austrian parliament to give every south tyrolean "italian" the option for double citizenship (austrian and italian). In the 1950's there was a referendum held in south tyrol where more than 50% voted for yes to return to austria, but the UN didn't accept it, it was injustice, the land was originally stolen and it was not allowed back to austria when the people there wanted to come back. This was against the right of self-determination that all people in europe have. it makes me really sad, I know that south tyrol doesn't want to come back to austria at the moment, because of the level of autonomy italy gave them, but once the italian economy collapses (and I bet it will, just like greece) the politicians even said that a reunion with austria would be one of the things to consider. But we have to be proud of our country for what it is now, neutral, peaceful and we respect the law and human rights. Austria is much more than just a small state in the middle of europe, austria should be a role model for all the countries who think wars are necessary. Our economy is doing just fine and the people here are happy and proud of their country and we don't need to participate in wars to achieve any of that, in fact we take pride in the fact that we don't participate in wars anymore. This is why I love this country so much, the ability to learn from previous mistakes is what makes this country and the people here so special. edit: Just to put this whole south tyrol thing into perspective. How would americans feel if new york and some eastern parts of the US were all of a sudden declared as part of italy or canada or some other country? Even though this is american land with american people? Doesn't seem right, don't you think? And everyone would call it injustice, which it is. I am sorry but as far as I know there are not 70% austrians living there. Although the data from 2011 should already be up (it was made 4-5 months ago), I could only find data from 2001 on most of the subjects. According to the South Tyrolian Institute of Statistics, in 2010 only 8% foreigners of undisclosed nationality lived there. The rest should be italian. Now I hope that you were talking about the language (presumption of innocence) and did not try to spread false information. As I cannot get anything out of the homepage of the 2001 census (its in italian, http://dawinci.istat.it/MD/) I have to go to wikipedia. If we are talking about the first language, which does not give us information about their nationality, the data is as following : 64,0 % german 24,5 % italian 4,0 % ladinic (ladinisch, I hope ladinic is correct) 7,5 % other That behind us, it is not austrian land anymore and the people are not austrian. Their alleged affections of Austria beside, the facts remain. They are italian. Of course they still wanted to join Austria in 1950, everyone who was born there while in Italian rule could not talk about the matter yet. And you talk about the injustice but seem to forget the circumstances ... 60 and more years later, the situation is different. If the South-Tyrolian people still want to be a part of Austria and go through all the necessary channels, welcome to Austria. Why not. As to the neutrality, it may very well be argued if we are still technically neutral. It is true though that the AUCON only partakes in peacekeeping missions and not in so labeled "wars". Whatever that means. As to respecting the law and human rights, amnesty international has something to say about this matter. Now of course AI has a bigger focus on "western" or "northern" countries to show their commitment and there are WAY worse situations in other countries, but that does actually not play down the situation in Austria. If you want to read up on it, Report from 2011 http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/austria/report-2011 Article about racial discrimination in Austria http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/EUR13/002/2009 And I assume that you wanted to write that we are one of the only neutral countries in the world ? Otherwise it would not make sense. | ||
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ChaosTerran
Austria844 Posts
On March 07 2012 05:19 Tufas wrote: I am sorry but as far as I know there are not 70% austrians living there. Although the data from 2011 should already be up (it was made 4-5 months ago), I could only find data from 2001 on most of the subjects. According to the South Tyrolian Institute of Statistics, in 2010 only 8% foreigners of undisclosed nationality lived there. The rest should be italian. Now I hope that you were talking about the language (presumption of innocence) and did not try to spread false information. As I cannot get anything out of the homepage of the 2001 census (its in italian, http://dawinci.istat.it/MD/) I have to go to wikipedia. If we are talking about the first language, which does not give us information about their nationality, the data is as following : 64,0 % german 24,5 % italian 4,0 % ladinic (ladinisch, I hope ladinic is correct) 7,5 % other That behind us, it is not austrian land anymore and the people are not austrian. Their alleged affections of Austria beside, the facts remain. They are italian. Of course they still wanted to join Austria in 1950, everyone who was born there while in Italian rule could not talk about the matter yet. And you talk about the injustice but seem to forget the circumstances ... 60 and more years later, the situation is different. If the South-Tyrolian people still want to be a part of Austria and go through all the necessary channels, welcome to Austria. Why not. Seriously? South-Tyrol was part of austria for hundreds of years, the people there are speaking german as their first language, well it's actually austrian german with a tyrolean dialect. How on earth are these people italians? They don't even speak italian. This is just a technicallity then, you might aswell argue that no countries exist because the borders are only imaginary. Which is fine, but if you define a nation you can't overlook language and culture. They share the same language and culture have been part of austria for hundreds of years and were only then stolen (literally stolen) by italy. What exactly defines the austrian identity, you yourself talk about austria as a nation, for me personally south tyroleans are no different than north or east tyroleans, they speak the same language, have the same culture, hell tyrol was even a united state before the italians divided it. It is in imaginary border. You simply lack a definition of nation in your premise, because south tyroleans aren't any less austrian than any of us by any standards I could set, except the arbitrary border. South tyroleans have nothing in common with italians, not the same language, not the same culture, they are not italians and mind you, they for the most part don't even refer to themselves as italians, they are referring to themselves as south tyroleans, some even say they are austrian or german. This is a point of view I simply don't share with you, it's a bunch of arbitrary nonsense. As to the neutrality, it may very well be argued if we are still technically neutral. It is true though that the AUCON only partakes in peacekeeping missions and not in so labeled "wars". Whatever that means. Again, down to your own definition of neutrality, if you choose to be the devil's advocate and claim that peacekeeping missions and wars are one and the same thing, then fine but it's yet again only your own definition and arbitrary, not a fact by any means. Austria is officially neutral. that is a fact, not your opinion of how neutrality should be defined. As to respecting the law and human rights, amnesty international has something to say about this matter. Now of course AI has a bigger focus on "western" or "northern" countries to show their commitment and there are WAY worse situations in other countries, but that does actually not play down the situation in Austria. If you want to read up on it, Report from 2011 http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/austria/report-2011 Article about racial discrimination in Austria http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/EUR13/002/2009 And I assume that you wanted to write that we are one of the only neutral countries in the world ? Otherwise it would not make sense. Well it's amnesty international. I'm not saying their work isn't right and with good intentions, but they are also sensationalists, most of their articles simply display the few negative cases available to them. It's always easy to find negative things about any country when reading AI articles, simply because they are more proned on mentioning negative things rather than positive things, simply because that is the very reason of this organization's existence. Any country will look bad when I only insist on pointing out the negatives and not the positives. Again, I'm not saying that AI is bad, they are good guys, but the evidence presented there is not a valid argument when talking about entire countries. There are injustices in every country, good thing AI points them out, but that doesn't mean that everything is bad. Again, not pointing out the positives is obviously going to make everything look bad. | ||
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Damrak
Netherlands124 Posts
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Tufas
Austria2259 Posts
On March 07 2012 07:31 Damrak wrote: I was in austria for a couple of days last summer. It was in Payerbach. Love the nature there and the highways are fun also ^^ What did you do there .. I had to find it on a map. Seems like a very very small village :D Well ChaosTerran in the spirit of the blog I will let the rest know what we are talking about... After the first world war in the treaty of Saint-Germain Tyrol, a federal state, was divided along the "Brenner", a mountain in the region. Everything south of it was going to be part of Italy from now on. With the takeover of Italy through the fascists and Mussolini they began to italianize South Tyrol such as replacing the german names of town with italian ones and banning german for the official administration.. This did not prove to be effective and in the mid 30s they began the "majorisation", meaning to resettle italians to South Tyrol. Hitler did not prove to be of much help as well as he never could "bring back" South Tyrol to Germany but offered every german speaking citizen the right to resettle into Germany. 86% of those alleged said that they wanted to move but in the end (with the war and all) only about 1/3 actually got to Germany. After the II World War in September 1946 Austria and Italy sign the Gruber-De-Gasperi treaty which proclaims that South Tyrol shall be autonomic in certain regards, german and italian language shall be treated equally and Austria will be the protecting power of South Tyrol. Meanwhile in the real world, many of those issues talked about in the treaty were never realized and there was still resistance from some of the german speaking South Tyrolian. Finally in 1972 they (South Tyrol and Italy) could agree on certain special statutes that would give South Tyrol a broader amount of autonomy. It took 20 years to bring all them into place but by 1992 Austria and Italy resided every argument and after Austria also joined the EU (Italy obviously was already in it and the Schengen agreement) people could happily move over the boarder. South Tyrol now is one of the wealthiest regions of Italy and with a high living standard and wealth and one of the lowest unemployment rates in the EU and everybody seems to be quite happy there. In 2008 Martin Graf, third president of the austrian national council, proposed a referendum for the South Tyroleans about them joining back with Austria. Now almost all of the austrian and italian politicians (including most of South Tyrolian) do not take this seriously and do not try to make South Tyrol get back together with Austria. Somehow though in Austria people seem to fight for the right of South Tyrol and somehow have started a small campaign that again, nobody takes serious. But somehow it is still going on :/ Sorry mate, not going to happen. Now I wouldnt be me if there was not going to be a map. And I am not going to include this into my blog. With help of those three maps everyone should know what region I just talked about. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zGexB.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6cuWb.gif) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Py9CQ.png) edit : And people wonder why I did not write more about the history of my country .. that were 90 years about one region. | ||
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Damrak
Netherlands124 Posts
 . And I heard that on the car radio and I was so surprised lol. | ||
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Tufas
Austria2259 Posts
There are only two radio stations that can be listened to over a long period of time .. FM4 and Ö1. :D | ||
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Myrkskog
Canada481 Posts
On March 07 2012 03:03 ChaosTerran wrote: Something that makes me really proud to be austrian is the fact that we are one of the only real neutral countries in the world. We will never participate in wars again, never again will we fight with out neighbors or anyone else. It is part of our constitution and it is part of austrian identity. I am proud that we learned from our mistakes and realized that war is wrong and only leads to pain and suffering, other countries like the US are yet to learn this important lesson. I am proud of austria and I am proud to be austrian. Be proud of that you are Austrian, you live in a great country. However, being an arbitrarily neutral country is nothing to be proud of. Neutral countries always exploit the belligerents of a war to further their own aims. It is in no way noble. Your cheap dig at the USA shows how little you understand neutrality. | ||
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