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On December 06 2011 04:54 ElectricBlack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:26 xtfftc wrote:
Okay, I'll get some dinner and then update my views on xsk and Adam before going to bed. I think you're scum too. What do you think about that?
I think that staying away from the main discussion and calling out some people in such an offhand manner doesn't help town.
I have been very open about my views and have been trying to catch mafia. If we lynch xsk or Adam and it turns out one of them is a townie, I'll be under extra scrutiny because I argued agaisnt lynching a lurker in favour of them. My reads are out there for everyone to analyse but you chose not to do so, which I am rather disappointed by.. I don't see how such arrogant play is good for town. You don't attempt to start a discussion about me and you don't join in ours. All you do is throw in some bold statements four hours before the deadline.
There's more important things to do, so I'm just going to ignore you until you bother posting a case on me.
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xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post
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This will have to be a quick post, rehersal is starting.
Adam:
The only problem I have is that you have not explained why you blamed others when not reading the forum.
The voting information is readily accessable on the fourth post, it is even mentioned explicitly by the host. You comment on his blameless acusations (when in fact they were for drawing out lurkers) yet you blame him without thinking about the contexts of the votes. You then in response go to say that the action was misguided, yet you contradict that statement with your comment about alcohol. Your mention of the misguided post is defended by an equally flawed post. You also mention how your post was defensive when in fact you spend most of your post criticizing others as well as well as commenting on xsksc's experience. In fact your only defense for Blazinghand's aggressiveness is to not a agree with it and then say that you could not respond because of your drinking.
On December 05 2011 15:56 Adam4167 wrote:
I never said I was hung over anywhere. I also admitted that my reaction was misguided - where did i say that "my comment was not misguided". You are damning me for using incorrect information and then doing the same thing yourself in the same sentence. As I stated in my post to BH: My actions were defensive and reactionary to his pressure on me and my outburst was born of anger, not rational thought.
On the other hand I agree with you that there should be not be bandwagoning or voting for spite. No matter how unconstructive the player may have come across, they should not be voted out for bad form. They should be voted out for posts that are error prone or reveal something about the identity of the mafia. I feel like as a newbie game there should be plenty of mistakes (I have made some too).
And about bandwagoning it is a terrible idea to not vote who you think is the most likely mafia. We must trust our own judgment when it comes down to it, because we do not know who could be leading the group a mafia or townie.
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Pretty much all I have on Adam is based on two of his posts that push pro-mafia agenda. Now that I think about it, I have a much stronger case on ey215, even though I decided to leave him for day 2. I don't have enough to convince Adam on my own and it seems that most of the others are happy to lurk or to vote for lynching Bbyte.
Here's what I wrote on Adam earlier in case you're lazy and can't be bothered to check it out:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 07:28 xtfftc wrote:* Adam posted something rather anti-town earleir though: Show nested quote +I am all for lynching anyone who scum slips or is caught in an outright lie, as they're almost sure to be mafia. There's two problems with this quote. The first one is that this is exactly what mafia want. They want to focus on someone saying one stupid thing and lynch that person. Ask your coaches if you don't agree with me: lynching someone over a single "scumslip" tends to be main reason why towns lynch an innocent on Day 1. The second is that he mixes a "scum slip" and "an outright lie". We had a lot of talk about LaL and a lot of you disagree with me. You want a strict policy on it and although I think it favours mafia, it can also help town, so it's okay. What is not okay is trying to tie "scumslipping" to the same policy without holding a proper discussion on what we consider to be a scumslip and what we consider to be someone overreacting over bad wording. This is very pro-mafia as it gives them an easy way to push for lynches. On December 06 2011 02:30 xtfftc wrote:Answering to what's been directed at me for first, then I'll re-read today's posts more carefully. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 23:48 Adam4167 wrote:On December 05 2011 17:59 xtfftc wrote:
I'm on my phone at lunch, so I'll be brief for now. I think that Bke is the easy lynch at the momenand Ipm glad we have bettee targets now. Byte is my top lurker and he'd make an okay lynch if we end up looking at the lurkers. Xskc looks a bit beteer but he still hasn't lived up to his early play.
I'll make sure not to throw away my votw for an unlikely candidate by voting for someone who wont get lynched like I did in xlvii and I encourage everyone to do the sa,e. Also, remember that last minute changes tend to help mafia. Out of the two best candidates I find Adam's dwfence much better (he is at least giving usomethimg to analyse), so I'll probably go for BE. I missed this post earlier through all the xsksc/EB drama. Xtfftc, are you encouraging bandwagons with the section I have bolded? I cast my vote in Jaybrundage's direction, even though I am the only one that's taken even the slightest bit of interest in him besides Tunkeg, because to do otherwise would be at odds with my analysis and reads. Good townie's should not be casting their vote based on the probability that the person will get lynched, they should be voting on whomever they have scum reads on regardless of the current vote situation. Yes, Adam, you caught me: I'm encouraging bandwagons........................ Voting for someone who isn't going to get lynched is very pro-mafia behaviour. I did this in XLVII - I didn't like the main targets, so I tried to push some others (one of whom turned out to be mafia but that's was irrelevant at the time because he wasn't going to get lynched), then went to bed before making up my mind who of the main candidates to go for and basically ended up throwing away my vote. I got torn to pieces by the veterans after the game ended. WBG also tried to push for my lynch after the vote solely because of this - and he had every reason to. If you are mafia and you see that the main lynch candidates are town, it is very easy to vote for someone else in order to avoid being scrutinised after the flip. When you have to justify your vote for one of the main targets, you have to take sides, which allows others to have a better read on you. Also, if you're mafia in this situation, you can vote for one of your teammates to prepare yourself for later if he gets lynched. I wouldn't be surprised if it turnes out that you are bussing a teammate to gain some town cred, so I'll be looking closely at Jay as well. You just earned yourself a lot of red points. Not only for using terrible logic but also for trying to scare town for voting for someone who will get lynched. Just to clarify my terrible wording: "but also for trying to scare town for voting for someone who will get lynched" was a bit of an overreaction to him being unhappy with my original statement. I wrote "I'll make sure not to throw away my votw for an unlikely candidate by voting for someone who wont get lynched like I did in xlvii and I encourage everyone to do the sa,e." Adam responded with "Xtfftc, are you encouraging bandwagons with the section I have bolded?" This is very pro-mafia. Town has to consolidate their votes sooner or later because if we don't, mafia can easily swing the lynch one way or another. "Bandwagonning" sounds like a bad thing to do, so implying that not throwing away your vote is bandwagonning is a mafia thing to do.
I'll check the thread again before going to bed.
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I am happy I took a step back and didn't pursue the argument with xsksc. The argument itself was to long, and it looks like the activity in the thread have suffered from it. I still think he is scum for the reasons previous listed, and I will uphold my vote on him. I will change it though if him getting lynched are highly unlikely by the time I have to go to bed (approxiumately 2 hours). So if you consider voting for him, vote before that time.
I do not like him jumping ship on me, leaving for Bbyte. That beeing said, I am more conserned with Grackaronis vote at the moment. His vote came right after xsksc's vote. He have been xsksc's parrot after xsksc's switch to aggressive.
That beeing said I have not taken a stance on the votes on Bbyte, I need to read more of his posts to make sure if he is really as lurky and scummy as you guys portray him.
Finally I would like to say that I am not against lynching lurkers, as stated in my opening post, but only if we can't find others who appear scummy. Lynching a scummy non-lurker will IMO give more information to the town, than lynching a lurker.
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On December 06 2011 06:02 jaybrundage wrote:
xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post
I didn't say you're mafia, I said I'll have a closer look at and you'll be able to read about it when I'm ready with it.
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Well, I have an hour, time to catch up.
I think Adam made a mistake saying what he said regarding bandwagons. I'm not sure how I missed this post earlier, but not having strong majorities = chances for the Mafia to swing votes later game. Remember 47? The Mafia vote-switched at 11:59 and managed to kill Palmar and almost got BloodyC0bbler as well. This is absolutely a matter for concern, and I think we should think about this - having a clear single candidate minimizes this possiblity.
I may not have made this point clearly enough in my last post (rebuttal of a shaky case from Tunkeg was the majority of said last post), but I am seriously worried by the OMGUS from xkskc towards Tunkeg. It's definitely a concern for me, but for now I don't think it should be something to pursue on Day 1.
I don't know why Hassybaby has fallen by the wayside, but I still think he's a viable lynch candidate as well.
--Establishes himiself as "new"/trying to make room for mistakes
--Defensive - while he doesn't vote for Tunkeg, the whole "Serejai" spiel came off as an OMGUS post espcially after reading 47.
--Hops on my early vote for BKEXE without significant reasoning. (BKEXE is still on my radar, though - he's been crazy quiet recently and only seems to come out to defend himself rather than providing serious analysis)
However, I still think that BByte is our optimal lynch candidate. He hasn't stepped in to defend his case yet, he hasn't made any significant analysis, and he hasn't done what he promised to do - that is, give his thoughts on the current lynch discussion. Lurking this hard, even after being called out? That's insanely anti-town. Even if I can't be 100% that he's scum, he's not playing in the town's best interests.
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On December 05 2011 20:54 ElectricBlack wrote:
Yes.
Pressure is stupid. Either you're killing people or not. There should never exist no such thing as a pressure vote. But clearly we don't agree on that. I need to re-think my stance on you.
I am not willing to commit to a lynch candidate at this moment, I will however within a few hours explain and elaborate on my statement about hassybaby.
Ok, finally got back to the thread after a long day. I apologize that I haven't been back sooner. I'm going to respond to posts as I go through the thread so if anything I say gets contradicted later by someone else I want y'all to understand why.
On this post where you say you're either killing people or not, I'm more than willing to kill you tonight. I don't vote only for pressure, if I put a vote on someone I'm willing to let them hang.
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On December 06 2011 06:21 Tunkeg wrote:
I am happy I took a step back and didn't pursue the argument with xsksc. The argument itself was to long, and it looks like the activity in the thread have suffered from it. I still think he is scum for the reasons previous listed, and I will uphold my vote on him. I will change it though if him getting lynched are highly unlikely by the time I have to go to bed (approxiumately 2 hours). So if you consider voting for him, vote before that time.
I do not like him jumping ship on me, leaving for Bbyte. That beeing said, I am more conserned with Grackaronis vote at the moment. His vote came right after xsksc's vote. He have been xsksc's parrot after xsksc's switch to aggressive.
That beeing said I have not taken a stance on the votes on Bbyte, I need to read more of his posts to make sure if he is really as lurky and scummy as you guys portray him.
Finally I would like to say that I am not against lynching lurkers, as stated in my opening post, but only if we can't find others who appear scummy. Lynching a scummy non-lurker will IMO give more information to the town, than lynching a lurker.
I do believe that xsksc is town and did side with him against you. in fact I started getting suspicious of you a while ago. if you are looking for somebody to blame for putting pressure on you, I started agreeing with the suspicion of you changing his mind about him after Jaybrundage asked me what I thought of xsksc. I am probably one of the reasons you got a lot of attention, but I have been making my own decisions
On December 05 2011 14:21 Grackaroni wrote:Here is another quote that makes me fairly suspicious of Tunkeg : Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 05:30 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 05:05 Grackaroni wrote:
@Tunkeg: also since you're here. I am curious why you painted Ey215 town in your reads. He is somebody that I am unsure of right now and all you explained is that "his posts so far says town to me. He is balancing out Blazinghand." To be honest I did go abit wild with the coloring. I should perhaps have used more leaning town/leaning scum reads i my post. Anyways the reason I put ey215 as town was the feel I got from his posts. He posts his view about town-environment, he states his view about the risk of bandwagoning and that sort of stuff. All of which I consider pro-town posting. What I didn't incorperate in my analysis when posting the list was the defensive attitude he initially took against Blazinghand. Still my read on him is leaning town This quote + his changing of opinion on xsksc without anything further happening in the thread make Tunkeg suspicious. Tunkeg has shown some inconsistencies between what he puts on his reads and what he actually feels. @Blazinghand : You're my strongest town read and have shown that you're good at analyzing, can you give me you're opinion on Tunkeg once you get back from dinner.
I don't like that you are accusing me of "parroting xsksc." He is on my town list and I have been siding with him but I am still making my own decisions. My vote was on Adam at the time and it simply didn't seem like you were going to be lynched and I'm still not positive you are mafia.
BByte has not contributed and has a stupid (what seems to be an OMGUS) vote on Veli. I think that this is just a bad move but it is possible that he purposely put his vote on somebody not going to be lynched to distance himself from any blame.
Is it likely that he is scum? probably not.
Will he contribute at all to the game? Even more likely not.
I've said throughout the game that we should look for a strong analysis on the active players before we look to lynch a lurker.
I feel we have done a lot of analyzing and it is unlikely that we will agree on who is mafia in the time we have left. , I don't want to join your bandwagon on xsksc and the only other person who had a chance to be lynched was xsksc/adam
It looked like from the tunneling between xsksc and You that 2 sides were beginning to form
Me supporting xsksc and Xtfftc supporting Tunkeg. Perhaps this should be looked at for future reads but I'm not sure it says too much about anyone's alignment. It is entirely possible that both you and xsksc is town.
I still feel that Hassybaby should be looked at as a target for the lynch. If you want to know why once again read EB's case.
If you would like to accuse me of being scum, please look through my filter and build a case. I would much rather you do that than mildly hinting that I have been "parroting" Xsksc.
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On December 05 2011 22:20 ElectricBlack wrote:This is the reason I suspect Hassybaby: Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 00:26 Hassybaby wrote:
Later on, I'm all for it. But not Day 1 imo, and especially not less than 24 hours since the start of the game.
The whole idea behind lynching lurkers is to use the day 1 lynch to get rid of one, this is simply because it's inevitable that town has worse reads on day 1 than any other day, so what you're sacrificing is a chance of catching scum, and the reward is better chance to hit scum in the later days. Statistically, the day 1 lynch is the least valuable one for town, because it has the least chance of hitting scum, so I think the idea of saving lurkers until later in the game is very bad. If we're going to use a lynch to teach lurkers a lesson, it'll be the day 1 lynch. I don't think we actually have a lurker in the game, so the discussion is irrelevant, but at the time HassyBaby was pushing an idea I can in no way see as town favored. Moving on.... Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:49 Hassybaby wrote:Firstly, I'm honoured that you think I'm a veteran, but you're totally wrong. I'm not a veteran in any way shape or form. This is my second game, and my first game was XLVII, and we all know how that went  Why do you want people to think you're new and bad? What is the reasoning behind that? Isn't the optimal way to play as town to come across as good as possible, because that makes people more likely to listen to you and be convinced by you instead of not listening to you. Not only that, but you're also shredding responsibility. If you're new surely you can't be held accountable for using bad logic, having bad reads and not playing optimally. If someone said I was a "veteran", I'd run with it, because that helps me get my points across, and it forces me to play very well. There are two factions in mafia, only one of them likes being ignored and perceived useless. And that faction is not town. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:49 Hassybaby wrote:
This goes especially to you Tunkeg, because right now it feels like you're playing the Serejai role from XLVII. Accusing everyone isn't going to help. In fact, it can easily get you ignored in the thread. Accusing people is fine, but do it within reason considering situations in the game.
Tunkeg is applying pressure by asking questions and analysing how people respond, Serejai just painted names red and gave no particular reason for it. Also, you seem to be assuming Tunkeg must be town? Interesting. Next post that caught my interest: Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:24 Hassybaby wrote:
And people have posted since I last saw....
Veli, yeah I think I went over-defensive there. I misinterpreted Tunkeg's posts, and that's my bad. The post about BKEXE is a good catch. I'd again like to see what he says about that.
Meanwhile, for lack of a better vote right now, I'll be voting on BK. That is totally based on Veli's point, as I don't see strong cases against tohers right now. So odds are I'll change the vote tomorrow, especially if BK makes a good point.
##BroodKingEXE
And finally, even after all this time Hassybaby doesn't have as much to go on. He puts down a vote based on the reasonings of others, which obviously frees him of all responsibility for the lynch if it's wrong. And despite already having piggybacked onto someone else's reasoning instead of explaining his own thought process, Hassybaby decides to specifically state that the vote might be changed. There is no reason to do that, if he has a better scumread than BK at some point he can just explain that and change. Once again I feel like Hassybaby is attempting his best to not be responsible for his actions. If Hassybaby is town, he is doing his best to make sure no one listens to him, essentially making him useless. But the reasonable explanation is that he is scum. ##Vote Hassybaby
Again, haven't read the whole thread yet. I do like this case EB. I do take issue with your first quote of Hasseybaby. I think this may be a case of misunderstanding. I think he was saying he didn't want to lynch a lurker Day 1 of the two days that we had to make the decision not day 1 in game time.
I think he was saying day 1 real time as opposed to day 1 game time.
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On December 06 2011 06:20 xtfftc wrote:Pretty much all I have on Adam is based on two of his posts that push pro-mafia agenda. Now that I think about it, I have a much stronger case on ey215, even though I decided to leave him for day 2. I don't have enough to convince Adam on my own and it seems that most of the others are happy to lurk or to vote for lynching Bbyte. Here's what I wrote on Adam earlier in case you're lazy and can't be bothered to check it out: + Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 07:28 xtfftc wrote:* Adam posted something rather anti-town earleir though: Show nested quote +I am all for lynching anyone who scum slips or is caught in an outright lie, as they're almost sure to be mafia. There's two problems with this quote. The first one is that this is exactly what mafia want. They want to focus on someone saying one stupid thing and lynch that person. Ask your coaches if you don't agree with me: lynching someone over a single "scumslip" tends to be main reason why towns lynch an innocent on Day 1. The second is that he mixes a "scum slip" and "an outright lie". We had a lot of talk about LaL and a lot of you disagree with me. You want a strict policy on it and although I think it favours mafia, it can also help town, so it's okay. What is not okay is trying to tie "scumslipping" to the same policy without holding a proper discussion on what we consider to be a scumslip and what we consider to be someone overreacting over bad wording. This is very pro-mafia as it gives them an easy way to push for lynches. On December 06 2011 02:30 xtfftc wrote:Answering to what's been directed at me for first, then I'll re-read today's posts more carefully. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 23:48 Adam4167 wrote:On December 05 2011 17:59 xtfftc wrote:
I'm on my phone at lunch, so I'll be brief for now. I think that Bke is the easy lynch at the momenand Ipm glad we have bettee targets now. Byte is my top lurker and he'd make an okay lynch if we end up looking at the lurkers. Xskc looks a bit beteer but he still hasn't lived up to his early play.
I'll make sure not to throw away my votw for an unlikely candidate by voting for someone who wont get lynched like I did in xlvii and I encourage everyone to do the sa,e. Also, remember that last minute changes tend to help mafia. Out of the two best candidates I find Adam's dwfence much better (he is at least giving usomethimg to analyse), so I'll probably go for BE. I missed this post earlier through all the xsksc/EB drama. Xtfftc, are you encouraging bandwagons with the section I have bolded? I cast my vote in Jaybrundage's direction, even though I am the only one that's taken even the slightest bit of interest in him besides Tunkeg, because to do otherwise would be at odds with my analysis and reads. Good townie's should not be casting their vote based on the probability that the person will get lynched, they should be voting on whomever they have scum reads on regardless of the current vote situation. Yes, Adam, you caught me: I'm encouraging bandwagons........................ Voting for someone who isn't going to get lynched is very pro-mafia behaviour. I did this in XLVII - I didn't like the main targets, so I tried to push some others (one of whom turned out to be mafia but that's was irrelevant at the time because he wasn't going to get lynched), then went to bed before making up my mind who of the main candidates to go for and basically ended up throwing away my vote. I got torn to pieces by the veterans after the game ended. WBG also tried to push for my lynch after the vote solely because of this - and he had every reason to. If you are mafia and you see that the main lynch candidates are town, it is very easy to vote for someone else in order to avoid being scrutinised after the flip. When you have to justify your vote for one of the main targets, you have to take sides, which allows others to have a better read on you. Also, if you're mafia in this situation, you can vote for one of your teammates to prepare yourself for later if he gets lynched. I wouldn't be surprised if it turnes out that you are bussing a teammate to gain some town cred, so I'll be looking closely at Jay as well. You just earned yourself a lot of red points. Not only for using terrible logic but also for trying to scare town for voting for someone who will get lynched. Just to clarify my terrible wording: "but also for trying to scare town for voting for someone who will get lynched" was a bit of an overreaction to him being unhappy with my original statement. I wrote "I'll make sure not to throw away my votw for an unlikely candidate by voting for someone who wont get lynched like I did in xlvii and I encourage everyone to do the sa,e." Adam responded with "Xtfftc, are you encouraging bandwagons with the section I have bolded?" This is very pro-mafia. Town has to consolidate their votes sooner or later because if we don't, mafia can easily swing the lynch one way or another. "Bandwagonning" sounds like a bad thing to do, so implying that not throwing away your vote is bandwagonning is a mafia thing to do. I'll check the thread again before going to bed.
What exactly is this "much stronger" case against me again?
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On December 06 2011 06:46 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 06:21 Tunkeg wrote:
I am happy I took a step back and didn't pursue the argument with xsksc. The argument itself was to long, and it looks like the activity in the thread have suffered from it. I still think he is scum for the reasons previous listed, and I will uphold my vote on him. I will change it though if him getting lynched are highly unlikely by the time I have to go to bed (approxiumately 2 hours). So if you consider voting for him, vote before that time.
I do not like him jumping ship on me, leaving for Bbyte. That beeing said, I am more conserned with Grackaronis vote at the moment. His vote came right after xsksc's vote. He have been xsksc's parrot after xsksc's switch to aggressive.
That beeing said I have not taken a stance on the votes on Bbyte, I need to read more of his posts to make sure if he is really as lurky and scummy as you guys portray him.
Finally I would like to say that I am not against lynching lurkers, as stated in my opening post, but only if we can't find others who appear scummy. Lynching a scummy non-lurker will IMO give more information to the town, than lynching a lurker. I do believe that xsksc is town and did side with him against you. in fact I started getting suspicious of you a while ago. if you are looking for somebody to blame for putting pressure on you, I started agreeing with the suspicion of you changing his mind about him after Jaybrundage asked me what I thought of xsksc. I am probably one of the reasons you got a lot of attention, but I have been making my own decisions Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 14:21 Grackaroni wrote:Here is another quote that makes me fairly suspicious of Tunkeg : On December 05 2011 05:30 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 05:05 Grackaroni wrote:
@Tunkeg: also since you're here. I am curious why you painted Ey215 town in your reads. He is somebody that I am unsure of right now and all you explained is that "his posts so far says town to me. He is balancing out Blazinghand." To be honest I did go abit wild with the coloring. I should perhaps have used more leaning town/leaning scum reads i my post. Anyways the reason I put ey215 as town was the feel I got from his posts. He posts his view about town-environment, he states his view about the risk of bandwagoning and that sort of stuff. All of which I consider pro-town posting. What I didn't incorperate in my analysis when posting the list was the defensive attitude he initially took against Blazinghand. Still my read on him is leaning town This quote + his changing of opinion on xsksc without anything further happening in the thread make Tunkeg suspicious. Tunkeg has shown some inconsistencies between what he puts on his reads and what he actually feels. @Blazinghand : You're my strongest town read and have shown that you're good at analyzing, can you give me you're opinion on Tunkeg once you get back from dinner. I don't like that you are accusing me of "parroting xsksc." He is on my town list and I have been siding with him but I am still making my own decisions. My vote was on Adam at the time and it simply didn't seem like you were going to be lynched and I'm still not positive you are mafia. BByte has not contributed and has a stupid (what seems to be an OMGUS) vote on Veli. I think that this is just a bad move but it is possible that he purposely put his vote on somebody not going to be lynched to distance himself from any blame. Is it likely that he is scum? probably not. Will he contribute at all to the game? Even more likely not. I've said throughout the game that we should look for a strong analysis on the active players before we look to lynch a lurker. I feel we have done a lot of analyzing and it is unlikely that we will agree on who is mafia in the time we have left. , I don't want to join your bandwagon on xsksc and the only other person who had a chance to be lynched was xsksc/adam It looked like from the tunneling between xsksc and You that 2 sides were beginning to form Me supporting xsksc and Xtfftc supporting Tunkeg. Perhaps this should be looked at for future reads but I'm not sure it says too much about anyone's alignment. It is entirely possible that both you and xsksc is town. I still feel that Hassybaby should be looked at as a target for the lynch. If you want to know why once again read EB's case. If you would like to accuse me of being scum, please look through my filter and build a case. I would much rather you do that than mildly hinting that I have been "parroting" Xsksc.
I do not want to label you as scum. But I did want to say that you and xsksc have been of the same opinion lately, thats all. And it should be something that should be looked into further down the line.
For the xtfftc and me think I think you make an exellent point, and a very observing one. As I have stated before (and which is not going to make me look more detached from xtfftc) he looks like good town or great scum to me. So that is something that might come back and bite me in the ass later.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote:
And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town!
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Alright, having caught up a couple of things.
First, town we need to pull this together. Blazing and I did not exactly give y'all the best example to go off of early on in this game day and I think we both regret, have learned from that, and have moved on to try to help the town. We can disagree, even vehemently, and still be civil. Getting everyone worked up in a tizzy so that they just fling accusations at each other is not what's best for the town. Active civil discussion is. Try to keep it turned to 9 instead of 11. 
Second, thank you to all that supplied lists of reads. I know this is not an easy thing to do day one and to some extent will have to go off of "gut" feelings and instincts. That we've come together, in general, to do this is a good stepping stone going into day two. These reads that many of us have supplied can be used later to help us scum hunt.
Third, I've stated the whole game I'd rather lynch a lurker if we don't have a better case, and tonight I think that is the best option. While there are a lot of cases floating around there's not a single one I feel comfortable voting on. I especially am wary of voting for someone that's been pretty active as without a solid scum read we could be lynching some of our best townies, and I'd really prefer not to do that.
Finally, after all that is said I will be moving my vote to BByte. I think we have some room to grow and move on, but we need active people to do that.
##Unvote: ElectircBlack
##Vote: BByte
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And apparently I can't spell ElectricBlack to save my life. /sigh
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ey are you planning on voting for hassybaby.
So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good.
But honestly last minute switches always put me at unease. I still plan to stick to adam i would like to see what he has to say about whats going on so far.
And EB if you think adam is not a good candidate plz state why this post.
On December 06 2011 05:45 ElectricBlack wrote:
reconsider that, he's the worst candidate.
Isn't going to change anything. Put in some content i would like to see more of your thoughts.
But besides Hassybaby's case which was actually pretty good. And you arguing with xsksc which granted showed that you can post very well when you want too. Why give me this one liner it's not gonna change anything
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On December 06 2011 07:11 jaybrundage wrote:ey are you planning on voting for hassybaby. So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good. But honestly last minute switches always put me at unease. I still plan to stick to adam i would like to see what he has to say about whats going on so far. And EB if you think adam is not a good candidate plz state why this post. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:45 ElectricBlack wrote:
reconsider that, he's the worst candidate. Isn't going to change anything. Put in some content i would like to see more of your thoughts. But besides Hassybaby's case which was actually pretty good. And you arguing with xsksc which granted showed that you can post very well when you want too. Why give me this one liner it's not gonna change anything
Read the thread.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12601877
And my case against Hassybaby
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12602036
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On December 06 2011 07:11 jaybrundage wrote:ey are you planning on voting for hassybaby. So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good. But honestly last minute switches always put me at unease. I still plan to stick to adam i would like to see what he has to say about whats going on so far. And EB if you think adam is not a good candidate plz state why this post. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:45 ElectricBlack wrote:
reconsider that, he's the worst candidate. Isn't going to change anything. Put in some content i would like to see more of your thoughts. But besides Hassybaby's case which was actually pretty good. And you arguing with xsksc which granted showed that you can post very well when you want too. Why give me this one liner it's not gonna change anything
I voted for BByte on the lurker/not contributing line of reasoning. I was really hoping we wouldn't have to use it, but if someone's inactive even if town they're not really doing us any good.
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I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
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On December 06 2011 07:18 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:11 jaybrundage wrote:ey are you planning on voting for hassybaby. So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good. But honestly last minute switches always put me at unease. I still plan to stick to adam i would like to see what he has to say about whats going on so far. And EB if you think adam is not a good candidate plz state why this post. On December 06 2011 05:45 ElectricBlack wrote:
reconsider that, he's the worst candidate. Isn't going to change anything. Put in some content i would like to see more of your thoughts. But besides Hassybaby's case which was actually pretty good. And you arguing with xsksc which granted showed that you can post very well when you want too. Why give me this one liner it's not gonna change anything I voted for BByte on the lurker/not contributing line of reasoning. I was really hoping we wouldn't have to use it, but if someone's inactive even if town they're not really doing us any good.
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Town doesn't lynch people for being bad. Town lynches people for being mafia. It's not like we get free lynches for the useless and the lurkers; it's the mafia who managed to distract town well enough and they're getting a free kill tonight as a reward.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 06 2011 07:28 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:18 ey215 wrote:On December 06 2011 07:11 jaybrundage wrote:ey are you planning on voting for hassybaby. So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good. But honestly last minute switches always put me at unease. I still plan to stick to adam i would like to see what he has to say about whats going on so far. And EB if you think adam is not a good candidate plz state why this post. On December 06 2011 05:45 ElectricBlack wrote:
reconsider that, he's the worst candidate. Isn't going to change anything. Put in some content i would like to see more of your thoughts. But besides Hassybaby's case which was actually pretty good. And you arguing with xsksc which granted showed that you can post very well when you want too. Why give me this one liner it's not gonna change anything I voted for BByte on the lurker/not contributing line of reasoning. I was really hoping we wouldn't have to use it, but if someone's inactive even if town they're not really doing us any good. ..................................... Town doesn't lynch people for being bad. Town lynches people for being mafia. It's not like we get free lynches for the useless and the lurkers; it's the mafia who managed to distract town well enough and they're getting a free kill tonight as a reward.
That's a fair point. On the other hand, BByte is so silent there's no way we'd ever know he's Mafia. He's not like an "omg I went afk for several days" lurker, he's a "I make like 3-4 no-content posts, spread out over the course of the day, and am trying to look active but really am not" lurker. I see two options here:
1) BByte is a lurking mafia guy
2) BByte is just a somewhat inneffective townie
Now, granted, (2) is a possibility. And honestly I'd rather lynch a mafia guy than a non-mafia guy. But currently, I think BByte the lurker is more likely to be mafia than any of my existing reads. If you can convince me otherwise, then I'll vote for those guys. That being said, my vote stands. I'm trying to make the best out of a no/low information situation here.
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EPT
