EPTComing soon:
- Common mistakes and problems
- How to get back into cycle after you mess up
[G] The Cycle method for Zerg macro - Page 5
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
Coming soon: - Common mistakes and problems - How to get back into cycle after you mess up | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
On October 16 2011 19:39 IcemanAsi wrote: Updated the OP with a slightly more streamlined version of the cycle as well as simplified version for new players. Thanks! Very nice system. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
Thanks :D I'm working on the problems and fixes sections now.The most obvious ones are: - Not enough money to spend larvae after spawn - Losing overlords - Losing queens - Having a queen or hatch out of sync - Aligning tech timings in cycle with gas timings for popular openings If you have anything you would want to flag as a problem that rose up when using this, let me know. | ||
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KroN
Germany438 Posts
like this guide, will try to use it. One thing you could add is explain the inject method in itself, because there are many people like me who never used it (5 queen, 6 queen, 7 queen, 8 queen and double tap for me) and run into problems like: -does not work when there is a hatch without queen, they run around -same for macro hatches, i constantly use them without queens. KroN | ||
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Fugue
Australia253 Posts
Previously I'd be so focused on using up larvae, not getting supply blocked, making sure I had good drone saturation and wasn't forgetting to build an army, that I'd forget entirely about scouting or having any sort of map awareness. I was following the basic tenet that you should focus on macro, because you can win on macro alone if you've got that down. But if you don't scout and react, you'll never get the drone/army balance right. After about half a dozen games getting used to this cycle method, I was learning to tap the hatchery, use minimap injects (an adjustment I wanted to make as backspace injects, while fast, weren't working for me) and checking supply to make overlords in between cycles. I felt myself making better decisions on tech/unit comps because more of my time was now being devoted to checking the minimap and moving my units around. Best of all this was teaching me something really important - I could focus on moving units without forgetting to macro, something which was killing me when I tried to focus on macro alone. Last game of last night was a 4v4: 1. I did not get supply blocked once. 2. In the early stages of the game, I managed to ling scout all 4 players (buddy protoss sniped a depot and lured the marines away, it was perfect), see their tech, and respond appropriately with a full round of drones, taking extra gas, teching to spire and getting mutas. 3. I massed up 24 mutas in just a few cycles and kept my money low the whole time, and spent the next 5 minutes still macroing and taking a 3rd and 4th base while harassing and being active on the map. 4. I continued to react better to scouting information gained between cycles, getting out brood lords against a thor/tank army in a good time. 5. I scored top for resources, against a mix of diamond/plat/gold players (I'm gold league myself). I still had 3k+ minerals at one point and dozens of unused larvae at another, but my play up to that game was usually being stuck on tier 1 or 2, massing just one unit type and not tech switching, just trying to macrostomp. I think we've all seen threads telling us that that's good practice (although they would point out that massing lings against colossus is never going to win), and perhaps that practice has helped me ease into this style without too many issues, but personally I feel like it simply left me relying on a flawed system that devoted all my concentration to macroing and left me with no time to think about army positioning, scouting, or true reactive play. Edit: On October 16 2011 23:53 KroN wrote: Hi, like this guide, will try to use it. One thing you could add is explain the inject method in itself, because there are many people like me who never used it (5 queen, 6 queen, 7 queen, 8 queen and double tap for me) and run into problems like: -does not work when there is a hatch without queen, they run around -same for macro hatches, i constantly use them without queens. KroN This is why I switched to minimap injects. I like all queens on 1 hotkey, and I like having queens for creep spread, not just injects, but by using minimap injects I can neglect a hatchery that I know has had its queen sniped, for instance. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On October 16 2011 23:53 KroN wrote: Hi, like this guide, will try to use it. One thing you could add is explain the inject method in itself, because there are many people like me who never used it (5 queen, 6 queen, 7 queen, 8 queen and double tap for me) and run into problems like: -does not work when there is a hatch without queen, they run around -same for macro hatches, i constantly use them without queens. KroN Hi, I would rather not dive into that here, as there are other threads which go into the different inject method, and do so well. Suffice it to say that whatever inject method you use is irrelevant to the cycle method and is completely dependent on personal preference, as long as you can execute your injects fast enough as to not delay your use of the spawning larvae. | ||
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OxyFuel
Canada195 Posts
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DeadCell
Canada255 Posts
I'll have to give this a shot but switch backspace to something else because I only have 3 buttons. It's hard to get used to this because It's engraved in my brain to spam 1-1 2-2 and so on for each hatch but obviously your method is much quicker. I'm workin on it! | ||
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Magus.423
France33 Posts
You _must_ have 1 queen per hatch. Or your queen will just run away in the middle of the map screaming out loud "yoooouuuuhhhooooou, come kill me dudes, i like that so much !". If you don't have 1 queen per hatch, you must do injections carefully one by one, so it's slower ^^ But, IcemanAsi is right. Choose the method you like. It makes no difference for this guide. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On October 18 2011 17:00 Magus.423 wrote: This method is quicker but got some issues. You _must_ have 1 queen per hatch. Or your queen will just run away in the middle of the map screaming out loud "yoooouuuuhhhooooou, come kill me dudes, i like that so much !". If you don't have 1 queen per hatch, you must do injections carefully one by one, so it's slower ^^ But, IcemanAsi is right. Choose the method you like. It makes no difference for this guide. Hehe, In my mind it was always more: "I got it boss! I got it! Just....let....me.....get.....there.....God I'm out of shape, diet starts tommrow..." | ||
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Labbes
2 Posts
Also, I actually signed up just to say this. Hey, TL Forums! | ||
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SpoR
United States1542 Posts
The only exception to this is when I'm mid/late game with lots of mana on my queen(s) and i make extra hatches near the first few and then hotkey them both on the same key and treat it like 1 hatch that I have to spit on twice. | ||
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Cyanocyst
2222 Posts
Though yeah i felt that best way to get better with zerg was get a really basic macro cycle going, then just keep adding aspects to the cycle. With Zerg there's honestly always something that you could be doing. | ||
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statiksc2
Australia2 Posts
This cycle kind of logic really helps my macro game but there is just a couple questions I have - 1) How do you get INTO the cycle in the most efficient way? (Remember we don't start with 2 queens/hatches from the get go) 2) The "create units" part doesn't really work all the time for me. A lot of times I'll create units and still have many larvae left over (not knowing which to use for overlords). Also just to clarify I'm supposed to technically make 1 overlord per 8 supply of units i create at once? (8 lings/drones in a row, THEN ovi - OR 4 roaches/hyras/etc THEN ovi ) that's my understanding anyway If someone could help clear this up I'd be forever grateful! | ||
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Labbes
2 Posts
1) How do you get INTO the cycle in the most efficient way? (Remember we don't start with 2 queens/hatches from the get go) As soon as you have two queens, one should inject while the other spawns a creep tumor (in direction of your natural), since there is no way you can afford the minerals for two complete injects at such an early stage. If you time it right, they both have 25 energy again at the same time, so the next time, they can both inject at the same time. 2) The "create units" part doesn't really work all the time for me. A lot of times I'll create units and still have many larvae left over (not knowing which to use for overlords). If you lack resources for units, it means you don't have enough mining workers. Either your bases aren't saturated, you haven't taken all your gases, or you just need to expand again  Also, the overlords you need are produced from the naturally spawning larvae after the larvae from the inject are all used up (ideally) for workers or units. | ||
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blixna_waka
7 Posts
Cheers. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On October 19 2011 20:09 statiksc2 wrote: Hi, I'm a Protoss player (high diamond) recently turned zerg. I just always watched replays of zerg and always loved their mechanics of creep etc, so i finally decided to try it - and much to my dismay it turned out I was way worse at it then Protoss. This cycle kind of logic really helps my macro game but there is just a couple questions I have - 1) How do you get INTO the cycle in the most efficient way? (Remember we don't start with 2 queens/hatches from the get go) 2) The "create units" part doesn't really work all the time for me. A lot of times I'll create units and still have many larvae left over (not knowing which to use for overlords). Also just to clarify I'm supposed to technically make 1 overlord per 8 supply of units i create at once? (8 lings/drones in a row, THEN ovi - OR 4 roaches/hyras/etc THEN ovi ) that's my understanding anyway If someone could help clear this up I'd be forever grateful! At full saturation, you can max out 6 roaches per cycles (75min per unit) per hatchery. More expensive units you have to make a unit mix, 1 or 2 mutas and the rest lings, for example, or whatever combination of cycles fits your style. You also need to build overlords so you have to consider replacing a unit in the cycle with an overlord. I prefer to start with an ovie and then make units; ensures i dont just press and hold a unit button and get stuck with supply block. Also +1 for tilde | ||
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Goobadiah
United States16 Posts
Thanks for creating it | ||
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StiX
Netherlands220 Posts
Love you for doing this however I think Infestation pit (Taking into account the research time as well) - 0/40 is wrong As the infestion pit takes 50 seconds to build and 80 seconds to research Pathogen Glands (source: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Infestation_Pit ) If you would start it 0/40 it would mean you'd end up at 10 seconds after the third round being finished.. 130 seconds/40 = 3.25 1# 40 seconds taken before first larvae spawn (tot: 40) 2# 40 seconds taken before second larvae spawn (tot: 80) 3# 40 seconds taken before third larvae spawn (tot: 120) 4# 10 seconds into round four which leaves the possiblity that you have spended your larvae (tot: 130) it would be wiser to start it at 30/40 to sync it More info in spoiler for those who are confused + Show Spoiler + #1 30/40 (tot: 10) #2 40/40 (tot: 50) #3 40/40 (tot: 90) #4 40/40 (tot: 130) Yes, the synchronization makes it a round later but let me explain why this is in harmony with timing larvae: 1. Your larvae isn't 10 seconds idle and the comparison is out of proportion because you get your larvae "earlier" at 30/40 (compared to the infestion pit) than at 0/40. 2. It doesn't matter because you don't lose any larvae starting at 30/40, the only thing that happens is that your infestion pit seems longer because it's delayed in the larvae cycle. 3. Some may argue your infestors will come 30 seconds later. Especially because you usually (personally experience) look at the bar when it's close to finished. 4. Chances exist that if you make it at 0/40 and you follow this method you can make MAX 3 infestors as you invest "orginal" larvae in overlords. 5. Infestors are a big tech investment and take 130 seconds (longest) before you can build them effectively. So if you plan to build infestors you usually plan this ahead and would look on the timer at any point of time, it wouldn't matter building them at 0 or 30 because the So the infestion pit has to start at 30/40 and thus takes 25% of the first round and then 3 more rounds. Unless you took 10 seconds as buffer to actually start the research but then you should edit this :D. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On October 27 2011 22:52 StiX wrote: Dear IceManAsi, Love you for doing this however I think is wrong As the infestion pit takes 50 seconds to build and 80 seconds to research Pathogen Glands (source: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Infestation_Pit ) If you would start it 0/40 it would mean you'd end up at 10 seconds after the third round being finished.. 130 seconds/40 = 3.25 1# 40 seconds taken before first larvae spawn (tot: 40) 2# 40 seconds taken before second larvae spawn (tot: 80) 3# 40 seconds taken before third larvae spawn (tot: 120) 4# 10 seconds into round four which leaves the possiblity that you have spended your larvae (tot: 130) it would be wiser to start it at 30/40 to sync it More info in spoiler for those who are confused + Show Spoiler + #1 30/40 (tot: 10) #2 40/40 (tot: 50) #3 40/40 (tot: 90) #4 40/40 (tot: 130) Yes, the synchronization makes it a round later but let me explain why this is in harmony with timing larvae: 1. Your larvae isn't 10 seconds idle and the comparison is out of proportion because you get your larvae "earlier" at 30/40 (compared to the infestion pit) than at 0/40. 2. It doesn't matter because you don't lose any larvae starting at 30/40, the only thing that happens is that your infestion pit seems longer because it's delayed in the larvae cycle. 3. Some may argue your infestors will come 30 seconds later. Especially because you usually (personally experience) look at the bar when it's close to finished. 4. Chances exist that if you make it at 0/40 and you follow this method you can make MAX 3 infestors as you invest "orginal" larvae in overlords. 5. Infestors are a big tech investment and take 130 seconds (longest) before you can build them effectively. So if you plan to build infestors you usually plan this ahead and would look on the timer at any point of time, it wouldn't matter building them at 0 or 30 because the So the infestion pit has to start at 30/40 and thus takes 25% of the first round and then 3 more rounds. Unless you took 10 seconds as buffer to actually start the research but then you should edit this :D. You are correct. Thanks for catching this. Correcting OP. | ||
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