EPT[H] 1 v 3 Very Hard AI and 4VHAI - Page 2
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MindBreaker
United States574 Posts
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
the best way to beat this is to lift off to an island. try to get both if possible and turtle with tanks and turrents they will mine out If you do have a suggestion on how to beat the 1v4 Very Hard AI challenge, please post your suggestion in the following format: Map of choice: Race: Races of the AI: Basic Tactic: Detailed Tactic: and / or Replay: If you don't bother posting a serious reply please don't reply at all. So far there is only one map with an island that contains a natural and that island is so wide open that mass drops just come from another side. By the time they come I'd have around 4 battlecruisers but I can't possibly steer them to defend from all fronts. Please at least post a replay of you beating AI with said tactic in patch 1.41. Thanks in advance. Edit: Updated my initial post with all tactics suggested and attempted so far. I will keep these up to date for people also interested in trying these achievements and to give an overview to prevent double posts. | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
Race: Terran Races of the AI: All Zerg Basic Tactic: Same as others have said Turtle up, but I recommend building a mech army, rather than going to bcs as the mech army is actually what you need to defend, and at the end 3-3 Thors with mass scv repair quite easily a-move the zergs. Detailed Tactic: I opened two rax at the ramp, bunker in the middle. Take both gas. Hold off first little push(the really easy one with lings, but they don't allways do it), make two more bunkers at corners of ramp behind barracks. Only make 12 marines to fill all bunkjers than stop. Get Factory asap, start making tanks. Should have at least a tank with siege to hold first heavy push, but this is the hard push to hold.... And the zerg do not allways push with the same speed, so if you barely fail its worth trying again, and trying to get tanks up faster and hope the push comes a little later. So you are making tanks off one factory. expand when you have 400 mins. Add another factory. Go double armory and start upgrading when you can. Keep making tanks till the bigass push from everyone comes. You should crush it. 9 tanks will hold ramp against anything. Take your 3rd whenever here. When at 9 tanks stop making tanks and make Thor only. (don't remake tanks if you lose them) You should be safe now and its pretty easy. When you have 3-3 and are maxed out push with all your thors tank aprox 10-12 blueflame hellions and all but ~30 of your scv (ie bring half) For execution I recomend just splitting the hellions and assigning groups of a few to follow a thor. Same with the scv (on auto repair) Then just have the thors/tanks in group and a-move their bases. This way the hellions autoprotect from lings, but don't run around like retards and you don't actually have to micro at all. If I do this again, I will post the replay here (some night when I am bored watching a tourney I will do it) You have to pull scv on all early pushes promptly to repair bunkers etc. Didn't mention that but def do it. I've never tried using PF tho, but I don't see how it could possibly be better than a wall with seige tanks behind. Pushing up a ramp into siege tanks is impossible. lol BC will of course work if you get there but this is faster and the upgrades help you defend. I think having one tech tree much preferable. Umm, I kind of assume decent macro with this, I mean you need to make SCV constantly get tank with siege out promptly, not get supply blocked etc. Nothing hard. BIG EDIT READ THIS!!!!  Just did while watching code S round of 16. Scrap the 2 rax and the bunkers. (Had made it work before, but the marines do shit dps to 4 armies) Just go gas before rax, adn rush 2 factory tanks. Must have 4 tanks by 7 mins. Finish wall with 2 more rax (you don't build single marine out of any of them) Pull every scv for 7 min push and micro. Doesn't matter how many you lose. If you hold this you win easy (I had nine survive only lol and still won. Once you get 9-10 tanks you can't be broke. Get a thor out by third push (autohappens if you stop after 10 tanks) or like 5 stupid mutas that they bring might have killed you lol. But yeah, hold 7 min push =win with just macroing up 200-200 army of 3-3 Thors. (I stayed on 2 fact till I got 3rd base, and got the double armory as soon as I got my second base up for 4 gas) P.S. with this strat if they push before 7 mins you just lose, and sometimes they do. So just try again. The other two rax strat is safe against the earlier push but makes it MUCH harder to hold second push. No Idea where to post a single player replay. Edit #2 Alternatively I just did vs 3 very hard AI as protoss first try. Just played cannon defense on THe Boneyard, and turtled to Max upgrade Colossus Void Ray Carrier doomball. lol (no gw units at all) and it was way way way way way easier. Now, one thing is, since there was 3 of them, the odd one spawned in my base (two player bases) so I was able to cannon harass him easily. They never came remotely close to breaking my front though so.... yeah. Mass cannons into 2 base into 2 robo colossus, stop at ~10 colossus mass air. (probably don't even need voids just go carrier, I was gonna go just voids but then they were actually making a lot of mutas haha). Its possible to go overboard on cannons also btw, since I mined out all 3 base, and was not actually maxed yet (also 5 upgrade trees.....) Once you mine out/max you can sac most your probes to make army bigger. Then just amove around the map. Only thing about this is that there were effectively only 2 trying to break my front 4 might be harder, but I still think it might be easier than terran, cuz at least with my build you have to 1) not get attacked till 7 mins. 2) pull all scv's and micro tricks because you can't just repair as they get focused down, so you just do like this mix of repair and stop micro to delay long enough for your tanks to blast everything. (or something like, repair barrack till roaches start shooting scv, run scv out of range of roaches, repair each other, run back in repair barracks, etc. But I had a rax go down eventually, and had to do stop position in gap to let tanks finish mopping up) Much harder than spamming cannons. Anyways, gl. I will try as P vs 4 sometime again when I am quite bored, and watching tourney at 3am.GL all. Incidentally, I am not a vs AI player at all, I just don't like to ladder while watching streams, heh. But I can vs AI while watching streams because if I miss a worker or a depot is delayed it doesn't matter. | ||
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Dailyleaf
Netherlands10 Posts
Map of choice: Burning Tide Race: Protoss Races of the AI: 3x Zerg Basic Tactic: Mine minerals Detailed Tactic: Set 'Category' to custom. Protoss because you can chrono boost probes. 3x zerg opponent, because they seem to mine a little slower than terran and protoss on Burning Tide. Final goal is 3 bases with 21 probes each and 1 extra probe to collect minerals laying around. Expand when you have the minerals and dont forget to transfer some probes when its almost done to maximize resource collection. At 3:30 there is a lava eruption to watch out for, but you should already have a probe ready to throw down your third nexus at that time. Stop at 64 workers (3*21+1) for maximum resource collection. Use the extra probe to run around the middle to collect some bonus minerals. Replay: Burning Tide - 1v3 VHAI - PvZZZ.SC2Replay Vs 4 Very Hard AI: This map is bugged when it comes to 1v4. One of the AI will give minerals for your team. So its even easier than 1v3. Just expand once and wait until you get your free win. //offtopic I couldn't find any proper place to upload my replay. I tried a few sites, but some give errors and other wont even let me upload replays vs the ai. 1v4 VH/Insane AI? Isn't there a map that requires you to mine a certain amount of minerals to win, and a bug will make it 2v3 instead? Reason it does not work: As of this patch, this map does not allow you to pick AI harder than very easy. You forgot to turn 'Category' to custom instead of melee. | ||
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
You forgot to turn 'Category' to custom instead of melee. Costum games don't award achievements as far as I know. This is a really silly go-around if it works, so I'm going to try that anyway. Thanks for your perceptiveness. | ||
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
Just did while watching code S round of 16. Scrap the 2 rax and the bunkers. (Had made it work before, but the marines do shit dps to 4 armies) Just go gas before rax, adn rush 2 factory tanks. Must have 4 tanks by 7 mins. Finish wall with 2 more rax (you don't build single marine out of any of them) Pull every scv for 7 min push and micro. Doesn't matter how many you lose. If you hold this you win easy (I had nine survive only lol and still won. Once you get 9-10 tanks you can't be broke. Get a thor out by third push (autohappens if you stop after 10 tanks) or like 5 stupid mutas that they bring might have killed you lol. But yeah, hold 7 min push =win with just macroing up 200-200 army of 3-3 Thors. (I stayed on 2 fact till I got 3rd base, and got the double armory as soon as I got my second base up for 4 gas) P.S. with this strat if they push before 7 mins you just lose, and sometimes they do. So just try again. The other two rax strat is safe against the earlier push but makes it MUCH harder to hold second push. No Idea where to post a single player replay. Thanks for your addition, it looks a lot like the tactic I have tried on Outpost and Deadlock Ridge. Could you clarfiy for me why Boneyard is the better choice? Also, I know what you mean by the second push. How you manage to stop this with only 4 tanks is beyond me, though. I will however keep trying this tactic as it seems to be the most viable next to the Lava Flow island turtling. | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
On October 04 2011 21:46 Callynn wrote: P.S. with this strat if they push before 7 mins you just lose, and sometimes they do. So just try again. The other two rax strat is safe against the earlier push but makes it MUCH harder to hold second push. No Idea where to post a single player replay. Thanks for your addition, it looks a lot like the tactic I have tried on Outpost and Deadlock Ridge. Could you clarfiy for me why Boneyard is the better choice? Also, I know what you mean by the second push. How you manage to stop this with only 4 tanks is beyond me, though. I will however keep trying this tactic as it seems to be the most viable next to the Lava Flow island turtling. When I made it work (second try actually, but then next 3 they attacked at 5:30 with that little poke and I just lost) I had 8 (I think) tanks for the big like 80 unit push, and I just used scv to clog up the hole when they made it. But it appears there are at least two different push timings. Because most of the time they just come at 5:30 and I wasn't able to hold that with the 2 fac opening. The time I made it, they pushed at almost exactly 7 mins and I BARELY held with 4 tanks (5th coming out midfight) and all my scv. (lost one tank) Then I held rest pretty easy like I said. Anyways before I saw your reply I added more info to my other post on as T, and I tried it as P and it might be easier. (Very easy vs. 3 very hard ai) Unfortunately my zerg sucks, so I can not really try that but I don't see it working well, as they don't have such great heavy ground aoe. (Can't see infestors cutting it) The Cannon Defense as protoss (more detail in my edit to other post) is just an easier way (I think) to survive the early stuff, once you get a couple colossus out combined with your cannon wall you are again totally unbreakable. (Use cannons to focus air when it shows up, don't know if it will auto target it or not, but obv important I just did it myself, not hard.) Don't wall off solid btw, leave a tiny gap so all the units jam into it trying to get through and have a terrible concave. I think this would maybe help as terran? Not sure. Leave tiny gap and just block with hold position scv to mess with AI, have't tried it though. As to Boneyard, I only used that because like I had said I had played on it in 2v2 and knew it had 3 bases with a defendable ramp. Not really a vs. AI player so don't know all the maps. I can say with confidence if you need vs3 still, Protoss on boneyard is quite doable, Just get it so that one spawns in your location with you and its quite straightforward. | ||
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
If you can give me a link to your replay vs 3 and 4 very hard AI on SC2replayed that would be absolutely awesome. I also hope these posts help out other players in need of these achievements. | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
Here is a replay. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13969 If you like doing it more "straight up" or if you want to do v3 as Protoss, v3 is quite doable both with cannon turtle and the other tank turtle style on Boneyard. (I looked at other maps you mention and this is way better as it has 3 bases. Here is replay of P for funsies. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13970 Should note that neither of these strats require ANY micro or macro beyond constant worker production at beginning. (maybe tiny bit of cannon micro as protoss I guess?) My macro is awful in Lava Flow game it just doesn't matter. (watched streams AND made dinner while doing this  ) Also, can basically do the Island one AFK for majority of it.Any questions ask since I now have the island one fresh in my mind, if you want to know why I did certain things, but the replay shown is not in the slightest refined. Can pretty much stop watching after 30 mins as there is nothing else to see. And it wasn't even close btw, I had ton of money left to make more thor if I needed. | ||
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
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Fear219
United Kingdom168 Posts
Race: Zerg Races of the AI: Any Basic Tactic: Beat the enemy to 15,000 minerals. Detailed Tactic: Put 4 insane ai's on the enemy team. When you start it will say its 2v3 but it counts as 1v4. Just drone like i did in replay till i have 4 fully saturated bases. And wait. or For 1v3 repeat the same as 1v4 but remove one of the ai's Replay:http://drop.sc/40836 Edit: Completeing the insane ai achievments SHOULD give you the VH/H/M ones aswell. | ||
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
I try to not encourage people (including myself) to get achievements they don't deserve by solving them in a map like that. Atreides found a legitimate (read; melee) way to win, which is a victory of human ingenuity over computers. I hope Blizzard will remove Burning Tides as a legitimate map to beat AI. | ||
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Fear219
United Kingdom168 Posts
On October 05 2011 20:10 Callynn wrote: Hi Fear219, I try to not encourage people (including myself) to get achievements they don't deserve by solving them in a map like that. Atreides found a legitimate (read; melee) way to win, which is a victory of human ingenuity over computers. I hope Blizzard will remove Burning Tides as a legitimate map to beat AI. I know of several legitimate ways to beat 1v4 ai, but the replays would be over an hour long. If you want me to run it through it on legit map then just ask ^_^ | ||
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iloveav
Poland1472 Posts
On very hard i used to do : Zerg: 9 pool rushes Terran: Tank/viking (scvs only on gas later, only mules) Toss: Void/colosus or canon rushing. I think once you understand the AIs mecanics you will always beat it. | ||
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
On October 06 2011 17:46 iloveav wrote: mayb its just me, but when i played vs insane AIs i normally rushed them with all 3 races and as long as your rush was done asap, it worked. On very hard i used to do : Zerg: 9 pool rushes Terran: Tank/viking (scvs only on gas later, only mules) Toss: Void/colosus or canon rushing. I think once you understand the AIs mecanics you will always beat it. Wait, you can rush 4 Ai at the same time? Hax! | ||
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Volrod
Australia21 Posts
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Air.SWP
United States112 Posts
Map of choice: Lava Flow (as Terran there are two islands you can lift off to. Each island has an additional expo on it). Race: Terran Races of the AI: Zerg, but the more I think of it.. Terran kind of makes more sense. Basic Tactic: This is an 8 player map, so ideally you want to spawn in the bottom right, or top left. In these spots you can quickly lift off to either island and expand. Detailed Tactic: Now, ideally you can take your time to your SPs up and focus on getting another base up and even a third/fourth on the opposite islands. 3-3 BCs should work fine. Now, the reason I said Terran makes a bit more sense than Zerg; here is my reasoning behind it: -No Broodlords. Obviously you can place bunkers around the edge of the island with turrets to do this, but that can take time and spend un-needed resource. -Fungal growth/corrupters will not be there. -The only viable anti air you'll be up against are BCs, Vikings and Marines. They obviously won't be going all anti-air so if you're able to get 20+ BCs with 1-2 Vacs full of SCVs in tow to repair; you should be fine. -Your turrets around the edge of your island bases, if clustered enough should hold off air attacks fine. *Again, I have not tried this.. But, I did this last night on Hard and it was a piece of cake; I'll try it again tonight no VH and let you know how it goes. If anyone has tried this as well, or can offer any advice, I would appreciate it* | ||
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
On October 06 2011 22:19 Volrod wrote: Can confirm that the putting the game on custom for burning tide lets you get achivments, jsut got all the outmatched achivments except for 1v3 VH today on that map... I know it does, but does it make you feel like a good player? On October 06 2011 23:48 Air.SWP wrote: *I'll preface this with I did the 3vHard last night and had zero problems. I will try 3vVH tonight and post up my results* Map of choice: Lava Flow (as Terran there are two islands you can lift off to. Each island has an additional expo on it). Race: Terran Races of the AI: Zerg, but the more I think of it.. Terran kind of makes more sense. Basic Tactic: This is an 8 player map, so ideally you want to spawn in the bottom right, or top left. In these spots you can quickly lift off to either island and expand. Detailed Tactic: Now, ideally you can take your time to your SPs up and focus on getting another base up and even a third/fourth on the opposite islands. 3-3 BCs should work fine. Now, the reason I said Terran makes a bit more sense than Zerg; here is my reasoning behind it: -No Broodlords. Obviously you can place bunkers around the edge of the island with turrets to do this, but that can take time and spend un-needed resource. -Fungal growth/corrupters will not be there. -The only viable anti air you'll be up against are BCs, Vikings and Marines. They obviously won't be going all anti-air so if you're able to get 20+ BCs with 1-2 Vacs full of SCVs in tow to repair; you should be fine. -Your turrets around the edge of your island bases, if clustered enough should hold off air attacks fine. *Again, I have not tried this.. But, I did this last night on Hard and it was a piece of cake; I'll try it again tonight no VH and let you know how it goes. If anyone has tried this as well, or can offer any advice, I would appreciate it* My friend you did not read the complete post I made nor the complete thread did you? Atreides made a wonderful replay for us with your basic idea. Thanks for your response though. Your helpful intentions are appreciated! | ||
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Piou
Belgium415 Posts
that was on 1.3 but i'll re-do it on 1.4.1 if needed if you beat it 1v4 you get the 1v1,1v2 and 1v3 as well if you beat it on insane, you get "very hard" , "hard" , "normal" and "easy" as well so if you do 1v4 insane, you get it all | ||
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
Read the thread before posting these lame cheats please! =( How can this make you feel like you beat a game? Don't turn a challenge into doing the laundry! :D | ||
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